830 réponses à ce sujet

[MassEffect762]

Knottedredloc wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Beyond the gameplay changes, what actually bothered me more was how the presentation changed overall from being a mature, sci-fi space opera homage to the great sci-fi movies and shows of the late 70's to early 90's for sci-fi nerds of the era into more of an over-the-top modern Hollywood blockbuster action flick affair made for teenagers. Beyond that the whole thing just seemed to be presented a little more juvenile and I felt was even insulting to my intelligence a lot of the time, as well as breaking my immersion. Non-gameplay factors like the Mission Complete screens, giant pictured pop-ups, loading screens, childlike interfaces, massive plotholes and lore inconsistencies and squaddies running around in almost nothing in the dangers of space did far more harm to ME2 to me than any watered-down gameplay factor did.

Very well put!  This comment should be faxed, mail, email,  delivered in person, texted, etc., to everyone responsible for ME2 and anyone working on ME3.  

+ 1

Listen up Bioware/EA.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Alright, so I'm gonna try my hand at this:

The big things I hear being complained about from ME1 to ME2 are the following....

1. Story
2. Inventory
3. Exploration
4. Weapons

1. As far as the story goes, I will pretty much agree that ME1's trumps ME2's in every way. ME2 was basically all recruiting. It didn't feel like it had the same urgency to stop the threat that ME1 had and certainly didn't feel as epic.... the SM, while it's one of my favorite parts of ME2, was a disappointment b/c of the length and the ease of making it out with everyone alive. Most squadmates and their unique abilities were wasted and that sucked.

2. The inventory.... good god, this I completely disagree with the ME1 elitists on... having a huge inventory, full of the same crap with different names, is not cool nor fun to manage. It's not like it was hard, just DULL. Besides, the inventory is STILL around. It's just on the ship now and split into pieces. The weapons are in the armory, the mods are in tech lab, and the armor is in the captain's cabin. Would I have LOVED to have had more weapons, more armor pieces, and customizable squadmate armor!? HELL YES (which I hope they expand on in ME3), but, like I said, the inventory is still there and actually IMO makes waaay more sense. I mean, keeping everything on your space ship and having to choose the right equipment before the mission... or having magic space pants with bottomless pockets? lol

3. Exploration... ME2 > ME1 ... while I like the concept of ME1's exploration better... (the landing on planets and exploring them in the mako) .... they are just all so dull. You land and EVERYTHING looks the same... even the damn bases. IMO, if they wanted to go this route... they shoulda made the game on more discs for the required space and made the landable planets vastly different from each other. The side missions and loyalty missions (notably Jacob's) had such a better look to them, that even with their extreme linear-ness (or w/e the word is) they outshines ME1's copy/paste formula.

4. Weapons: All they were in ME1 were copies of the same guns with a different name... THEY DIDN'T EVEN LOOK DIFFERENT! In ME2 they all look different from each other and some of them act differently than the others. The whole ammo thing... while it doesn't necessarily make sense after having the no reloading in ME1... it makes the game flow better IMO. In ME1 you could just run ahead and hold down the trigger and waste everyone in the room. In ME2, you can't do that, making it more realistic.

As for characters (I know I didn't previously mention this) ... I love the ME1 characters, Ashley is my all-time favorite bioware squadmate so far, but the ME2 squadmates became lovable in their own ways... they did have considerable less character development, I'll give ya that. Still, they were cool.

Add to these things the vastly improved gameplay and combat and that's why I like ME2 over ME1. Hope that explains our side a little better OP.

This is a good post. My main concern with me2's direction was the story's exposition and character development, along with the voiceover quality.

In your second point, it seems as if were not really disagreeing at all. Ill give you that me1's inventory system was cluttered and clunky, but in me2 there is no inventory. You have to get on the normandy, get in the elevator, and wait for another loading screen to get to your armor closet. Gun shops dont sell guns, they sell blueprints (wtf?). Razorfist said it best, its like going into a doughnut shop and asking for a bearclaw and they hand you a ****ing recipe.

Your 3rd point is where i sort of have to draw the line. There is no exploration whatsoever in me2, unless you consider a citadel shrunken to a 1/16th of its size in me1 as fertile exploration grounds. And its still the biggest area to explore in me2

I've already explained how there is an inventory (it's just a lot smaller... that's the part I don't like), it's just split into different places on your ship. You just can't carry all of it with you anymore. Big deal.

I will agree that getting "recipes" at shops is completely stupid. But that's where me wishing they had more weapons and armor comes in. More weapons... they could sell them at the shops. Just please no more copies of the same weapons with different numbers slapped on them.

Like I said, I liked the IDEA of exploration in ME1.... and if everything wouldn't have been copy/pasted it would have been vastly superior to ME2. However, that was not the case.... every world was almost completely bare with nothing but one base on it, that almost always looked exactly the same as the others... with the occassional box moved around. 

When you land on a "new" planet and feel like you've been there 10 times before (which you have), that is hardly what I'd call "exploration."
The reason exploration was better in ME2 was b/c, no matter where you landed.... no matter how big or small, it always looked different. So even they it was way more linear, it felt more like exploring, b/c these were different and new.

Like I said, if they would have made all the worlds look different in ME1, the exploration would have been AMAZING. They didn't, it was horrible.

[The Spamming Troll]

Thompson family wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

me simply saying ME1 is a better game then ME2 is considered spam? but you saying ME2 is better then ME1 isnt considered spam? you cant call someone elses opinion "spam" just because it differs from yours. like you said, im here for the same reason you are, to give my opinion. you can call it whining or whatever you want, doesnt mean im wrong.

No, ST -- and you know better.

Saying it six or more times a day and then claiming that the forums are ablaze with unhappy customers is spam, and no, I don't believe you can't tell the difference.

Anyone can.

i think thats a double negative. maybe. actually i dont really know what that is. what is it?!?!?!?

also, spacedesperato, dont worry about the ME2 lovers being ME2 lovers.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

also, spacedesperato, dont worry about the ME2 lovers being ME2 lovers.

For the record... us ME2 lovers... can also love ME1. That's, at least, true in my case. I just find that I can replay ME2 more than I can ME1.

As you can see, my favorite character, is indeed from ME1.

[The Spamming Troll]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
also, spacedesperato, dont worry about the ME2 lovers being ME2 lovers.

Thanks man, you really know how to cheer a person up when he's down 

ive feel your pain.  ive been a long time beleiver that ME2 is a subpar sequal and ive voiced my opinion about it here and have had my fair share of haters hatin as well. its frustrating when you say "i like ME1 better" and people always bring up repetetive unc bases and reskinned inventories, when thats obviously not what we loved about ME1.

so dont worry about the ME2 lovers ripping on you for likeing what came first, becasue you surely are not alone.

[SlurpinTaxt]

I would have come to the rescue earlier SD but i was banned for saying something naughty about ricctiello teehee, i couldnt resist. But now it looks like this thread is dead. RIP

Also, the Bioware i knew and loved, RIP, stop walking around you undead abomination

[Kusy]

I ain't gonna buy ME3 cause all my money will be pumped into whatever special eddition Bathesda is ready to throw at me. Also, in before their special edition is not a shitload of crap daggers, rings and armors.

[xSTONEYx187x]

No, because I loved ME 2 and am loving DA 2 atm.

[Thompson family]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think thats a double negative.maybe. actually i dont really know what that is. what is it?!?!?!?

I'm not your English teacher -- and I'm very thankful for that.

Modifié par Thompson family, 12 mars 2011 - 06:18 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Thompson family wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think thats a double negative.maybe. actually i dont really know what that is. what is it?!?!?!?

I'm not your English teacher -- and I'm very thankful for that.

that is so freeking AWESOME!!!!!!!! thank you for letting me know that you dont want to be my english teacher!!!

maybe if english was my primary language id be embarased. but i mainly speak in pimpinese.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

I ain't gonna buy ME3 cause all my money will be pumped into whatever special eddition Bathesda is ready to throw at me. Also, in before their special edition is not a shitload of crap daggers, rings and armors.

This. Not only Bethesda are way better at making decent CEs, but after some refinements in Fallout 3 overs some of Oblivion's biggest problems and what I've heard so far, I'm much more guaranteed of a product that goes with what I seek in that type of game (and gaming to a certain extent) than Bioware.

Bioware proved again that they're catering to a different crowd now. They again, massively changed the design of a new IP in a way that rubs the wrong way many fans of the original. A sequel should always cater to fans of the original outing first. Ie. if you want to make a series more popular, you have to ensure anyone who liked the first one will like the second first. Well, there can always be some changes that some fans may dislike, but not changing the core mechanics - or more appropriately, taking them out or dumbing them down, ie. not bothering to streamline or improve - is a first to both conserve the integrity of a series and most of the original fanbase. I mean, sure it's all good and well if it sells, but if there's so much controversy over a sequel as there is with ME2 and DA2, there's a problem. People can refer to the sales all they want - that doesn't prove the quality anyway - but thing is, even if a good deal of people love it over the people who don't, the proportions aren't so positive when you look at those who played the originals first. A series should always feel consistent on several areas. There can be change, streamlining, improvements, additional elements, but it should still feel like a game of the same series, not a reboot or a poor shadow. And ME2 feels like a reboot in so many ways. Kind of comparable to the whole Splinter Cell Conviction thing. It sold well and all, but barely felt like a SC game, yet it was marketed as such. It's not as extreme with ME2 though, and I'm thankful.

But I'm still quite afraid of the direction Bioware seem to keep, and I'll wait to rent it before risking my money again. If it's decent, I'll buy it used at a low price, but it will have to be better than ME2 in almost every way for me to put more money on it. One of the reasons I liked ME1 so much in the first place, was the somewhat unique setting, story and atmosphere. But then it all got bloated to Hollywood crap degrees. Oh, and don't mistaken me, ME1 was still a relatively flawed game, but it had loads of potential if refinements would have been made on several aspects of the game. So in a way, I would've been a lot less pissed off if ME1 was already the game I hoped ME2 to be, rather than being a good/great game to a certain extent which I'll always view as having more potential than it showed. Since Bioware already dropped the ball to me, I'd almost need a miracle to be satisfyingly pleased.

[tonnactus]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

But I'm still quite afraid of the direction Bioware seem to keep, and I'll wait to rent it before risking my money again.

There is no risk.Buy it,if it is crap,sell it with a small loss. Thats even cheaper then to rent it.
The biggest problem i have with bethesda rpgs is that the npcs not really feel "alive".

Modifié par tonnactus, 12 mars 2011 - 07:41 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

tonnactus wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

But I'm still quite afraid of the direction Bioware seem to keep, and I'll wait to rent it before risking my money again.

There is no risk.Buy it,if it is crap,sell it with a small loss. Thats even cheaper then to rent it.
The biggest problem i have with bethesda rpgs is that the npcs not really feel "alive".

Except if do like the game, but wouldn't want it for the price. If I know I wouldn't buy it for 60$, I'll wait until it's much less. But if I buy it at 60$ and don't think it's worth it but still like it, I still feel cheated in a way since I want to keep it.

And personally, I'll take NPCs who don't feel that alive over any who feel more alive but offer me less any time. I'm not looking for a life/conversation sim in my RPGs, nor something close to movies, I'm looking for something only video games can bring me, and more freedom and depth in conversations is one. Crazy realistic NPCs don't do much to me anyway as graphics and such were always the last thing that I cared about. If it was me, I'd make my RPGs with minimal voice much like Morrowind. That way you can give much more depth in the conversation system. You can just compare with KoTOR when your character didn't speak. But anyway, I'm getting off-topic.

[tonnactus]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

And personally, I'll take NPCs who don't feel that alive over any who feel more alive but offer me less any time. I'm not looking for a life/conversation sim in my RPGs, nor something close to movies, I'm looking for something only video games can bring me, and more freedom and depth in conversations is one. Crazy realistic NPCs don't do much to me anyway as graphics and such were always the last thing that I cared about

I also dont care about graphics.But npcs should have some background and personality(at least the important ones). Some people complained about Jacob beeing bland...
Compared with Martin in Oblivion he is still stellar.

Fallout 3 also didnt have any memorable npcs. But i saw some improvement in Fallout Vegas(Mr. House for example).

[Whatever42]

Just as an aside - back on the main topic of the thread: I've noticed that those who have answered the subject question in the affirmative have always criticized ME2 and have always said that they would always be hesitant to buy ME3.

While those who have answered the question in the negative have always praised ME2.

In other words, nothing has changed except there's an awful lot of venting going on. We're having the same debates as a year ago. In other words, to answer the question of the OP, no, no one who was an fan of ME2 has new doubts because of DA2.

I'll now let the thread get back to the year long debate on whether ME1 or ME2 sucked more.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 12 mars 2011 - 08:11 .

[tbar67]

Im preordering mine a few months before its out. I can see both sides of the arguments have decent points to them and I still play the hell out of both games. In fact I had to buy a new copy of ME1 cause it was so worn down from me playing it so much, but guess what? I'll probably have to get another me2 copy aswell soon considering how much I keep playing it over and over aswell. They tried so hard to fix all the problems the first game had and what people were saying they didnt realy want in the next one that they pissed off the people that were perfectly happy with me1. Morale of the story is that you cant please everyone because with all of our diverse preferences there will always be something for someone to complain about.

And I'm sick of hearing how if you liked me2 then you must be simple minded apparently because it was so "dumbed down". I felt I needed to think and strategize much more in me2 considering that after leveling up a few times I still cant just run around point and shoot and not have to worry about getting killed at all unless I'm facing a thresher maw or something along those lines. In the second one needed to make sure you using cover or consealment unless you wanted to die like lets say for instance in the real world maybe? If you didnt pay attention you could be out flanked and killed even on normal difficulty at level 30. And yes I know if you play on higher difficulties this statement is essentialy pointless.

[Phaedon]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
In other words, nothing has changed except there's an awful lot of venting going on.

Yep.

[Weiser_Cain]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Just as an aside - back on the main topic of the thread: I've noticed that those who have answered the subject question in the affirmative have always criticized ME2 and have always said that they would always be hesitant to buy ME3.

While those who have answered the question in the negative have always praised ME2.

In other words, nothing has changed except there's an awful lot of venting going on. We're having the same debates as a year ago. In other words, to answer the question of the OP, no, no one who was an fan of ME2 has new doubts because of DA2.

I'll now let the thread get back to the year long debate on whether ME1 or ME2 sucked more.

My posts destroy your attempt to disregard critics of the game.

[KenKenpachi]

No, why should I? I liked ME2 and DA:2 I also liked ME:1 and DA:O. I try and not **** about X is not in Y, but rather look at the aspects I liked in all 4. Then again I'm one of those unwashed X-box Heritics thats "Stealing" away bioware.

[Weiser_Cain]

KenKenpachi wrote...

No, why should I? I liked ME2 and DA:2 I also liked ME:1 and DA:O. I try and not **** about X is not in Y, but rather look at the aspects I liked in all 4. Then again I'm one of those unwashed X-box Heritics thats "Stealing" away bioware.

You aren't stealing away bioware, you are dividing it's attention.

[Tamcia]

ME2>ME1. But in Dragon Age - DA:O> DA2 by far.
Different teams, so I still have faith in ME3 - last of the series, must be epic, MUST.