830 réponses à ce sujet

[Drake_Hound]

No I agree with the original poster , in RPG section and skills and characters ME1 > ME2
So many traditional rpg elements dissapeared , while ME2 storyline > ME1 , The game mechanics and rpg section has been dumped down a lot .

First finish the game without import now 2nd playtrough with import playing now with my spectre from ME1 seems a lot of things didn´t get added , citadel not complete , can´t visit emily wong , doc chadwood etc those mails you get to visit them ., but so funny how minor characters you let live , suddenly show up random places .

But back to the OP , he is right they should stopd dumbing down the RPG elements of talents or skills .

[Vash3283]

ME2 is certainty better then ME1 in almost every way. I would easily
sacrifice certain RPG elements for the quality shooter experience it
provides. (ME1's gameplay/combat was pathetic.)

[xI extremist Ix]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Kanten wrote...

Slightly hesistant.

Honestly, ME3 feels like Bioware's last chance for me. Aside from Origins, it's feeling like a growing series of disappointment ever since the buyout.

Way too much attention is being spent on streamlining gameplay systems and nowhere near enough on story or the game world, which always used to be the main reason to play Bioware games.

Mass Effect felt like you were in a vast galaxy where tons of things were happening at once. ME2 felt incredibly narrow by comparison (dedicating a good 80% of the plot to recruitment was a bad direction to take IMHO).

Just wandering the Citadel and just taking in the view was one of the memorable experiences of ME1, in ME2 it was a glorified shopping mall (and with no inventory that was rather pointless) that you couldn't even walk around in hardly at all. The sense of scale and the original charm was gone and replaced by a rather linear experience with a rather forgettable storyline.

Drew Karpyshyn's absence from ME2 was incredibly noticeable.

This.

This too.

[ADLegend21]

Nope,not at all.

[Drake_Hound]

Vash3283 wrote...

ME2 is certainty better then ME1 in almost every way. I would easily
sacrifice certain RPG elements for the quality shooter experience it
provides. (ME1's gameplay/combat was pathetic.)

No as first person shooter , ME 1 was much closer to that perspectief , crawling around active radar so you can headshot people far far away ...  the assault rifle was far superior as it should be .
In ME2 a lot of weapons has changed too much realistic that it doesn´t make sense .
The recoil was done way too much (sure fixed with DLC weapons) .

They removed a lot of tactical elements from ME 1 to appease broader fanbase ,
While the good thing about ME2 is that once you get the hang of it , it feels so much more heroic .
Shield up Adrelina rush , and run to your favorite spot to flank them ... it captures more the feeling of gears of war.

But the problem in RPG as OP stated ME2 is that example shock trooper is much beter then commando cause of silly min max value.
Thats something of rpg elements gone , in the end instead of developing toons to fit there personalities .
You just see a dumbdown point choice of + and -.

[Daeion]

Vash3283 wrote...

ME2 is certainty better then ME1 in almost every way. I would easily
sacrifice certain RPG elements for the quality shooter experience it
provides. (ME1's gameplay/combat was pathetic.)

ME2 is certainly worse then ME in almost everyway.  I would easily sacrifice shooter elements for the quality RPG experience it should have been.  (ME2's gameplay/RPG elements were pathetic.)

[DeckardWasAReplicant]

Daeion wrote...

Vash3283 wrote...

ME2 is certainty better then ME1 in almost every way. I would easily
sacrifice certain RPG elements for the quality shooter experience it
provides. (ME1's gameplay/combat was pathetic.)

ME2 is certainly worse then ME in almost everyway.  I would easily sacrifice shooter elements for the quality RPG experience it should have been.  (ME2's gameplay/RPG elements were pathetic.)

Thats because ME2 is a SHOOTER/RPG. Not just a RPG. From the very beggining Bioware has stated they have wanted to make a hybird of SHOOTER and RPG. I can not see how you think the combat is better in ME than ME2. But that is my opionion.

[Ahriman]

Daeion wrote...

Vash3283 wrote...

ME2 is certainty better then ME1 in almost every way. I would easily
sacrifice certain RPG elements for the quality shooter experience it
provides. (ME1's gameplay/combat was pathetic.)

ME2 is certainly worse then ME in almost everyway.  I would easily sacrifice shooter elements for the quality RPG experience it should have been.  (ME2's gameplay/RPG elements were pathetic.)

I've just wanted to tell that.
Guys, don't start this ME1vsME2 crap again.

[slimgrin]

I need to see proof first: Gameplay footage, story bits, hear the team talk about what they want to do with it. This is a different team, and I hope they've been given the time and resources necessary to make a fitting end to the trilogy. The ME series is one of my favs in gaming.

[Vash3283]

Drake_Hound wrote...

Vash3283 wrote...

ME2 is certainty better then ME1 in almost every way. I would easily
sacrifice certain RPG elements for the quality shooter experience it
provides. (ME1's gameplay/combat was pathetic.)

No as first person shooter , ME 1 was much closer to that perspectief , crawling around active radar so you can headshot people far far away ...  the assault rifle was far superior as it should be .
In ME2 a lot of weapons has changed too much realistic that it doesn´t make sense .
The recoil was done way too much (sure fixed with DLC weapons) .

They removed a lot of tactical elements from ME 1 to appease broader fanbase ,
While the good thing about ME2 is that once you get the hang of it , it feels so much more heroic .
Shield up Adrelina rush , and run to your favorite spot to flank them ... it captures more the feeling of gears of war.

But the problem in RPG as OP stated ME2 is that example shock trooper is much beter then commando cause of silly min max value.
Thats something of rpg elements gone , in the end instead of developing toons to fit there personalities .
You just see a dumbdown point choice of + and -.

In ME1 I could walk up the nearest enemy and shoot them point blank in the knees, it didnt make a diffierence. In ME2 I had to use cover, tactics, grenades as well as headshots.

[Ahriman]

slimgrin wrote...
This is a different team, and I hope they've been given the time and resources necessary to make a fitting end to the trilogy.

Not sure about time but they definitely have enough resources. EA has big plans about ME and won't spare on it.
Still if there will be that DLC spam and other strange advertisment actions before release it could mean that I'm wrong.

[slaythatdragon]

I find the topic of this thread sad.
Bioware has made enough amazing games to prove that they can make awesome games.
DA2 was not as good as origins but hey, cut them some slack. It was still fun to play.
I'm confident that ME3 will be an EPIC experience whatever direction they take.
And come on. Compare it to the other companies who make rpg's. If you decide not to buy future bioware games and are a rpg purist, what are you gonna play anyway??

[Element_Zero]

I tend to be of this way of thinking. . .

Sadly folks no matter what BioWare dose with ME3 it's not going to satisfy everyone out there. I can understand why, due to the raw popularity of the game. Some folks just will not be satisifed!

Alright, here is the issue out there folks. . And I'm not trying to offend anyone, but there is a large group of 'instant gratification' peeps out there. It's not solely a pandemic of the gameing industry either, by the way. The industry feeds this rightly and wrongly extensively largely due to the fact they want their games to be successful out there. Their 'trials / focus / research' groups, some media reviews, some of the threads within of this very forum, and even the content of the 'other guys' successful games fuel this. So all of this over simplification ,streamlining, or 'dumming down' you see, is largely because of that.

Consoles to some extend have spread this wildfire of over simplification though their many games that really are nearly entirely linear in play. Some of this is due human interface issues, some of it is due to the aggregate expense. What do I mean by linear? Well with in these games your environment funnels you down the path to the end of each mission. If there is any story involved with in the game, it also parallels this funneling to a enormous extent. After all it is many times easier to build a linear game vs a more sand boxy, varied, nonlinear, or one rich in varied sub-stories within the main plot.

Right or wrong, it's just the way it is. If you dig through the statistics, you can see some trends and one of those is folks will play and play and play to the end of the game bypassing allot of things within then demand a new game. Granted some will go back and replay, many others will not.

Something to keep in mind too, companies go though changes as the people who work for them come and go though the various positions. New ideas are brought forward and others left behind; sometimes for good reasons and sometimes bad ones. It's just the way companies live and breath over time. People get burnt out with some things or their desires don't always parallel with what they are doing within a company. This stuff isn't always bad, it's just people being people, building and walking their path though life. Many out there (where ever you fall in these outfits,) fail to preceive and understand that or even make necessary changes to improve.

What is the biggest problem I see with this hunger for 'instant gratfication'?  Unrest, illusion, and the erosion of resolve. Those of you employed out there know what I'm talking about no matter where you are in the company.

*shrugs* I think though those of you who are hesitant to buy ME3 after your experences with ME 2 or DA 2 will have to decide for yourselves rather the cost / benefit is right or not. The economy still is going though issues! So if the story within didn't take within you, I can fully understand why your hesitant!

Modifié par Element_Zero, 14 mars 2011 - 05:56 .

[Kaldarm]

I've only played the demo of DA2 atm and was surprised that I actually quite liked it apart from having to constantly mash buttons to attack - but it did worry me that Bioware had 'streamlined' many of the 'classic' RPG elements agan (much like ME2). I understand that Bioware wants to sell as many copies of their games as they can and they've realised that they can sell more games to the 'Playstation Generation' than they could for just a straight-up RPG. I think this is sad but an unfortunate issue we'll have to put up with.

ME2 (with the exception of the improved graphics (not animation)) was a HUGE disappointment for me and I've still only played it through once, after I'd downloaded all the extra content and thank God I did, I can only imagine how much I'd have hated it without LotSB and the extra weapons/characters.

I think it's reasonably clear that Bioware are going to continue to make their games in the style of ME2 (it sells more after all) and for me, this is very sad as before ME2 I don't think they'd released a game I didn't love. I'd probably best explain it like this: Playing Mass Effect 1 (and all previous titles) was like being in a BOOK, playing ME2 and I think also DA2 is more like being in a longer-than-average FILM.

[TK88]

I loved both ME1 and ME2 but I loved the hell out of ME2. I have over 100+ hours and multiple playthroughs. Same with Dragon Age....I really enjoy DA2 so far.

[Raniall]

While some of the choices in DA2 make it obvious it was rushed, it's no less an enjoyable experience for me.

As far as ME2 and ME1 go...both were good games, ME2 has proven itself to be more successful and enjoyable to everyone but a vocal minority so at least with the ME series they are proving to be on the right track...now if they can just get a planet exploration system that isn't fail (because let's face it both the Mako and the scanning sucked), then ME3 will be beyond awesome.

[TK88]

I second the comment that we need a better planet-scanning system

[Franzius]

xI extremist Ix wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Kanten wrote...

Slightly hesistant.

Honestly, ME3 feels like Bioware's last chance for me. Aside from Origins, it's feeling like a growing series of disappointment ever since the buyout.

Way too much attention is being spent on streamlining gameplay systems and nowhere near enough on story or the game world, which always used to be the main reason to play Bioware games.

Mass Effect felt like you were in a vast galaxy where tons of things were happening at once. ME2 felt incredibly narrow by comparison (dedicating a good 80% of the plot to recruitment was a bad direction to take IMHO).

Just wandering the Citadel and just taking in the view was one of the memorable experiences of ME1, in ME2 it was a glorified shopping mall (and with no inventory that was rather pointless) that you couldn't even walk around in hardly at all. The sense of scale and the original charm was gone and replaced by a rather linear experience with a rather forgettable storyline.

Drew Karpyshyn's absence from ME2 was incredibly noticeable.

This.

This too.

This.  
Just want to add that I hate the linearity of ME2.

ME3 the last call for Bioware.

[Myounage]

I liked ME 2 more than 1.  Mass Effect is an action RPG franchise, and ME2 refined that. Dragon Age 2 is an awful game though, and I've decided not to preorder ME 3 based on its failure.

[Kanten]

Kaldarm wrote...

I've only played the demo of DA2 atm and was surprised that I actually quite liked it apart from having to constantly mash buttons to attack - but it did worry me that Bioware had 'streamlined' many of the 'classic' RPG elements agan (much like ME2). I understand that Bioware wants to sell as many copies of their games as they can and they've realised that they can sell more games to the 'Playstation Generation' than they could for just a straight-up RPG. I think this is sad but an unfortunate issue we'll have to put up with..

Agreed that's the line of thinking, but here's where the fridge logic comes in. DA:O was a straight-up RPG and it sold more than either Mass Effect (or any other Bioware title) has.

Either Origins was a freak accident or the RPG audience is being grossly underestimated.

[Graphf]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

I certainly am, don't get me wrong I was a huge bioware fan, I bought and played ME1, ME2, and DA:O, since day 1 release. Check out my gamertag, I even play the KOTOR games from time to time. However, even though i enjoyed the original mass effect and dragon age, mass effect 2 left a very sour taste in my mouth. It is the only bioware game that i own that i have not played through twice, and it probably will stay that way. I still bought most of the dlc's  because I am still in love with this great lore that bioware has created.

Now that we have seen how gamespot says that dragon age 2 has followed ME2 traditions with all the rpg systems stripped down to their bare minimum. I wonder since Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 were released relatively soon after the original games, obviously with EA's influence, if that was the ultimate reason to strip down all these crucial rpg elements like taking out free-roam planetary sections and giving the great Commander Shepard scanning duties. Now Mass Effect 3 is coming out, much sooner than probably any other bioware sequel...

So to that brings me to my main arguement, should we trust bioware to give us a fully immersive rpg game like the original mass effect, making it a guranteed first day purchase or will we get a cover-based third person shooter in exotic enviroments with minimum customisation options, making it a game that will go down to $20 in less than a year.

Dude I have no clue what you're talking about as far as ME2 is concerned.

The combat is so much more fulfilling and that's just the start.   DA2 sucks ass though, you're right about that.

But seriously you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to ME2. 

[Fugiz]

Mesina2 wrote...

...I agree.

[CoolioThane]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I don't even know if you are being serious SpaceDesperado...

Just because I like ME2 more than the original...and you think that I am hating on you for not liking it? Nope, I am just trying to grasp how you can be such a prune about it. If someone shares your opinion you really like them, but if they don't you just shout louder at them until they give up.

Good basis on life that, must use it...Everyone thinks their opinion is the right one, because if they didn't, they would get a new one

Dude I didn't care enough to reply before, however I've re-read this topic and you my fellow hater have tried to make me look bad from the very start. Not because I am such a "prune", that was just some lame excuse, it's because you literally hate me for not liking ME2. This is 7 pages before you first called me out for being "rude":

CoolioThane wrote...
You are an ignorant douchebag. Just because the game is not how you want it, and has not progressed the way you wanted it to makes the series lesser...

I loved the characters a helluva lot more in the second game, with the returning squaddies being way more interesting and the new characters equally as awesome. I hope you don't buy ME3 and come spouting s**t on here as it did not go the way you wanted. PATHETIC

This is not the Mass Effect 2 General Discussion, I can discuss how much I dislike ME2 over ME1 as much as you can do the vice-versa, go take your HATE somewhere else please.

Good basis on life that, must use it...Don't stop making the people you disagree with look bad even if I have no opposing arguements to come up with.

I am struggling here. I'm stuck between thinking you are:

a) somebody who cannot believe someone can have another opinion to yourself, who will call somebody a HATER for their opinion. I have stated that I have nothing against people who liked ME1 more than the sequel, as I can honestly see the reasoning they give. I have stated I dislike the way you are forcing your opinion on others. I am not trying to force my opinion on you, just trying to make you see how silly and petty you sound. I haven't told you to not portray your opinion, but to stop doing so in a rude manner.

 A massive cu*t

Probably both to be honest, and with your consistent acts of ignoring what I have to say re your manner towards the subject, a waste of time.

[88mphSlayer]

i'm not hesitant to buy ME3, i've invested too much in this series to not buy the 3rd game... it'd be like going to see A New Hope and Empire but never watching Return of the Jedi, it's just obligatory

i also think there's a lot of easy improvements to be made to ME2 that would satisfy a wider number of people who enjoyed either the first game or the second or both, and people saying nothing should be improved are missing the point entirely

that said, after Dragon Age 2 i'm going to avoid hyping up ME3 and keep myself in check