830 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

shep82 wrote...

The7Sins wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was a piece of crap game. I am sorely disappointed that Bioware took away most of the elements from ME1 that made the Mass Effect universe cool and unique and added in a bunch of unnecessary retcons. Add to the fact ME2 had a ton of plot holes and I gotta say if ME3 is of the same vein as ME2 and does not return to its ME1 roots I will not buy ME3 ever and give yup on the series as a lost cause and not buy anymore Bioware games. I still regret preordering ME2 though it did teach me to never preorder games as they could turn out to be a piece of **** game.

Yet your avatar is a character from ME 2. Interesting.

Yet he is not the only one thinking exactly in the same way.

[Evil Johnny 666]

CoolioThane wrote...

The7Sins wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was a piece of crap game. I am sorely disappointed that Bioware took away most of the elements from ME1 that made the Mass Effect universe cool and unique and added in a bunch of unnecessary retcons. Add to the fact ME2 had a ton of plot holes and I gotta say if ME3 is of the same vein as ME2 and does not return to its ME1 roots I will not buy ME3 ever and give yup on the series as a lost cause and not buy anymore Bioware games. I still regret preordering ME2 though it did teach me to never preorder games as they could turn out to be a piece of **** game.

Wow, that is a very balanced argument. Glad you spent time talking about a **** game when you could have been doing something constructive.

What was wrong with it? He provided his opinion with a couple of the reasons he thinks so. It's funny how people here get offended by subjective adjectives. Aren't opinions supposed to be subjective? Aren't they supposed to be reactions to facts about the game. He didn't go into details, but you're just acting butthurt or something. Personally, even if he didn't say much, that's exactly part of what I think of the game. It's like they didn't like most of ME1 and decided to ignore ME2 was a sequel.

[Zulu_DFA]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
It's funny how people here get offended by subjective adjectives.

Yes it is. It is also very understandable.

Guy X likes ME2.

Guy Y says ME2 sucks.

Guy X thinks: "WTF? Do I like a sucking thing? Do I suck??? Nooooooo, can't be!"

So Guy X says: "Guy Y, you suck troll!!!".

Guy Y: [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mars 2011 - 03:22 .

[mx3ze]

This thread has no future. The creator of this one should be punished.

[Bishmon]

ME2 has the 4th highest Metacritic score for an Xbox 360 game all time. It has the highest Metacritic user score of any 360 game in at least the top 50.

Needless to say, that's not causing me much worry regarding ME3.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Bishmon wrote...

ME2 has the 4th highest Metacritic score for an Xbox 360 game all time. It has the highest Metacritic user score of any 360 game in at least the top 50.

Needless to say, that's not causing me much worry regarding ME3.

Video game critics are a joke, even more than cinema ones. Reviews are nothing more than first impressions acting as glorified advertisement. How can you accurately judge a game immediately after you just played it once? I don't believe it. And yes, in this world of capitalism you need to be productive, so they don't sit down to hours on end thinking about every game mechanic and how they're review the game. I easily read better written and more descriptive reviews from normal players. In fact, most "professional reviewer" barely says anything descriptive enough for me to even make myself a first opinion on the game. I remember reading several ME2 reviews. The only thing it said, is several of the obvious changes and how everything else was better, rather than how they were different. I haven't read a Reach review telling me how the level design actually plays like. I even read reviews praising how varied the campaign was, ignoring that most objectives were switches. And let's not even talk about awards, it's not like every reviewing outlet replays every game that came out, so their thoughts on the games are not better than their first impressions. That, and the review is actually the work of a single person, the thoughts of a single person. I think what reviewers should strive for is an informative, as much as objective as possible, piece of writing that can give me a good idea whether or not I should like the game. Instead, reviews feel like propaganda and I feel almost as uninformed as I was before reading it.

And I'm not trying to prove ME2 is bad with this, but the Blade Runner case is one you can always bring to show how you shouldn't view critics too seriously. When it came out, the movie was hated. Hell, even The Thing was ignored that year. Instead, everyone praised ET. Blade Runner didn't even do well, it was almost a flop, or maybe it was. Blade Runner, the movie that is now rated the 117th best film of all time by IMDb, and hailed by pretty much every critic and everyone as one of the best piece of cinema ever made. So the movie only survived because of VCRs and die-hard fans who kept it alive by buying it and making websites, talking about it. I don't remember how it happened, but Ridley Scott made a director's cut at some point - and a final cut later on - and everyone started to get crazy. The Thing is also seen as one of the best horror films yet did poorly both at the box-office and to the critics. Oh, and if you haven't seen the movie, I feel like pointing out the awesome soundtrack which you're sure to recognize. I loved how ME1's music was influenced by Vangelis and old-school sci-fi rather than generic Hollywood action movies like ME2.

I'm sorry if it bothers you for me to answer with such a long post attacking yours while you were only making a small comment, not getting into arguments, but these always irritate me. I felt like giving my thoughts on the matter, not just to you but to me and everyone else.


And personally, I can't stand a developper boasting reviews and sales on their websites. It's as if they view gamers as a bunch of people who can be easily convinced by such things. Well, nowadays it's kinda true, but it strikes me as a pompous and telling us one of their main concerns is making games that sells. You know, they boast more sales, reviews and awards rather than game mechanics and such. Especially since you can't get on the website without a "BUY ME2 FOR PS3!!!" pop-up. Even if Bethesda have a section for awards and reviews, there's no big review quotes as headlines or pop-ups. Even Bungie's site only features non-intrusive adds.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 17 mars 2011 - 04:04 .

[Bishmon]

ME2 has a Metacritic score of 96 based on 98 reviews. Its Metacritic user score is 9.0 based on 1754 ratings. It has a rating of 4.5/5 stars on Amazon based on 396 reviews. It's won dozens of Game of the Year awards.

If you want to try and belittle the popular opinion of the quality of ME2 based on your criticisms of critics, you've got your work cut out for you.

[Nashiktal]

I'm not worried. I loved ME2 and DA2 despite all of their flaws, I still have faith enough that Bioware will at least keep the range with ME3 if nothing else.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Bishmon wrote...

ME2 has a Metacritic score of 96 based on 98 reviews. Its Metacritic user score is 9.0 based on 1754 ratings. It has a rating of 4.5/5 stars on Amazon based on 396 reviews. It's won dozens of Game of the Year awards.

If you want to try and belittle the popular opinion of the quality of ME2 based on your criticisms of critics, you've got your work cut out for you.

Well according to you, McDonalds is the best restaurant, Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are the best artists nowadays. Back to my Blade Runner bit, it was hated by everyone on release, now it is loved by everyone. Everyone hailed Inception simply because the story is a bit complicated, people got all crazy because they were given the semblance of a good story by Hollywood for once.  You can never trust the popular opinion. Some people rate anything they like 10/10, some have far too low standards and always dig anything that is given to them. Hell, it's not for no reason Palin is actually a politician, it's because of the poor judgement of the masses. Black Ops, the 6th entry of a series that barely changed since its inception, a series which was ripped off Medal of Honour in the first place, is hailed by everyone as a great game. WoW, the worst farm/raid fest ever made sold countless copies. Activision managed to release more than one guitar hero(or was it rock band) game each year for several years, yet they simply released the same game over and over again. And which decent gamers even bothers to visit metacritic, let alone rate games there? 1754 ratings is a very poor number of votes too.

And even if I'm saying all this, the appeal to the popularity was always considered as an invalid argument, ie. a fallacy. It's like something must be good because the authority says so.

EDIT: Why did you keep reitering on the Metacritic score and awards?

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 17 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[Bishmon]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Bishmon wrote...

ME2 has a Metacritic score of 96 based on 98 reviews. Its Metacritic user score is 9.0 based on 1754 ratings. It has a rating of 4.5/5 stars on Amazon based on 396 reviews. It's won dozens of Game of the Year awards.

If you want to try and belittle the popular opinion of the quality of ME2 based on your criticisms of critics, you've got your work cut out for you.

Well according to you, McDonalds is the best restaurant, Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are the best artists nowadays. Back to my Blade Runner bit, it was hated by everyone on release, now it is loved by everyone. Everyone hailed Inception simply because the story is a bit complicated, people got all crazy because they were given the semblance of a good story by Hollywood for once.  You can never trust the popular opinion. Some people rate anything they like 10/10, some have far too low standards and always dig anything that is given to them. Hell, it's not for no reason Palin is actually a politician, it's because of the poor judgement of the masses. Black Ops, the 6th entry of a series that barely changed since its inception, a series which was ripped off Medal of Honour in the first place, is hailed by everyone as a great game. WoW, the worst farm/raid fest ever made sold countless copies. Activision managed to release more than one guitar hero(or was it rock band) game each year for several years, yet they simply released the same game over and over again. And which decent gamers even bothers to visit metacritic, let alone rate games there? 1754 ratings is a very poor number of votes too.

And even if I'm saying all this, the appeal to the popularity was always considered as an invalid argument, ie. a fallacy. It's like something must be good because the authority says so.

EDIT: Why did you keep reitering on the Metacritic score and awards?

To be honest, your argument is a complete mess. I'm talking about reviews, not sales, which totally invalidates at least half of what you just said there. And if we can't get over the reviews/sales hump, I doubt there's much productivity to be had in discussing the merits of the popular opinion.

I don't mean to be dismissive, but I just don't really see a discussion here. You've got your opinion of "people bad, my opinion good" and I've just got no interest to try and change that.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Bishmon wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Bishmon wrote...

ME2 has a Metacritic score of 96 based on 98 reviews. Its Metacritic user score is 9.0 based on 1754 ratings. It has a rating of 4.5/5 stars on Amazon based on 396 reviews. It's won dozens of Game of the Year awards.

If you want to try and belittle the popular opinion of the quality of ME2 based on your criticisms of critics, you've got your work cut out for you.

Well according to you, McDonalds is the best restaurant, Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are the best artists nowadays. Back to my Blade Runner bit, it was hated by everyone on release, now it is loved by everyone. Everyone hailed Inception simply because the story is a bit complicated, people got all crazy because they were given the semblance of a good story by Hollywood for once.  You can never trust the popular opinion. Some people rate anything they like 10/10, some have far too low standards and always dig anything that is given to them. Hell, it's not for no reason Palin is actually a politician, it's because of the poor judgement of the masses. Black Ops, the 6th entry of a series that barely changed since its inception, a series which was ripped off Medal of Honour in the first place, is hailed by everyone as a great game. WoW, the worst farm/raid fest ever made sold countless copies. Activision managed to release more than one guitar hero(or was it rock band) game each year for several years, yet they simply released the same game over and over again. And which decent gamers even bothers to visit metacritic, let alone rate games there? 1754 ratings is a very poor number of votes too.

And even if I'm saying all this, the appeal to the popularity was always considered as an invalid argument, ie. a fallacy. It's like something must be good because the authority says so.

EDIT: Why did you keep reitering on the Metacritic score and awards?

To be honest, your argument is a complete mess. I'm talking about reviews, not sales, which totally invalidates at least half of what you just said there. And if we can't get over the reviews/sales hump, I doubt there's much productivity to be had in discussing the merits of the popular opinion.

I don't mean to be dismissive, but I just don't really see a discussion here. You've got your opinion of "people bad, my opinion good" and I've just got no interest to try and change that.

You got it wrong. I'm saying you can't trust the popular opinion as the critics, I never said my opinion was the indisputable truth. And anyway, if you don't believe that your opinion is right there's a problem.

Otherwise, my point was not the sales either, so half of what I said isn't invalidated. Reviews are about how people like/perceive the thing. If Black Ops sold so well, it's because people like previous games, which were as much barely changed from the predecessor. If WoW sold so well, it's because at least the majority of the buyers love the game a great deal, if Blizzard continues to release expansion packs, years and years after the original release date, it's because there's a ****load of money to be made, it's because a lot of people like the game. If people continue to go buy food at McDonalds, if it continues to be the most popular food chain, it's because most people love McDonalds. If people kept buying Guitar Hero games, it's because people loved them and didn't bother buying games which are mostly the same thing repackaged. And just adding to what I said, if Hollywood didn't appeal to the popular opinion, they wouldn't continue to make their mostly worthless movies.

I fail to see how my argument is a complete mess, I just listed a bunch of reasons why the popular opinion can't be trusted. Coming up with user base reviews from metacritic is just that, giving credibility to the popular opinion. Most people can't seem to make decent arguments, how do you think they can make decent judgements? Look over IMDb, look over Gamepot, most release with more than 2 reviews consists of nothing but very short, useless reviews that says nothing. Again, what I'm saying is that I only trust my personal experience to make a judgement/opinion. Reviews, from citics or the user base, will never convince me of anything. And again, as stated, using the popular opinion as an argument is wrong.

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
It's funny how people here get offended by subjective adjectives.

Yes it is. It is also very understandable.

Guy X likes ME2.

Guy Y says ME2 sucks.

Guy X thinks: "WTF? Do I like a sucking thing? Do I suck??? Nooooooo, can't be!"

So Guy X says: "Guy Y, you suck troll!!!".

Guy Y: [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

[Akizora]

After Mass Effect 2 I am more inclined to buy Mass Effect 3 than I was buying Mass Effect 2 after Mass Effect 1, it was a much more streamlined and cinematic experience on Mass Effect 2 which proved to be that streamlining does not always mean oversimplifying. I do hope they reintroduce inventory system but with a lot of tweaks so it's not as cluttered and annoying as before, I also hope they keep the research but change how you farm minerals.

Dragon Age 2 hasn't really impacted anything about Mass Effect, they are two different teams making two completely different games. The only similarities the games carry is that they are both developed by Bioware, as for Dragon Age 2. While I think the game suffered a lot in the substance of the story and companions - the narrative was a lot better than the first Dragon Age and the conversation system was also an improvement (and it borrowed from Mass Effect). The only improvement I can see ME borrowing from Dragon Age 2 are the icons indicating the tone you take in a dialogue, diplomatic, sarcastic, snarky, angry, direct, flirty etc since there were a lot of times in ME2 where I ended up starting a romance without wanting to...

[ErebUs890]

ME2>ME1 But ME1 is still a great game.

[Xerxes52]

Mesina2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
It's funny how people here get offended by subjective adjectives.

Yes it is. It is also very understandable.

Guy X likes ME2.

Guy Y says ME2 sucks.

Guy X thinks: "WTF? Do I like a sucking thing? Do I suck??? Nooooooo, can't be!"

So Guy X says: "Guy Y, you suck troll!!!".

Guy Y:

OMG!!! Crypt Keeper fingers!

Modifié par Xerxes52, 17 mars 2011 - 08:38 .

[Gatt9]

Bishmon wrote...

ME2 has a Metacritic score of 96 based on 98 reviews. Its Metacritic user score is 9.0 based on 1754 ratings. It has a rating of 4.5/5 stars on Amazon based on 396 reviews. It's won dozens of Game of the Year awards.

If you want to try and belittle the popular opinion of the quality of ME2 based on your criticisms of critics, you've got your work cut out for you.

It also got outsold by...

Fable 2,  Uno,  Guitar Hero 2,  Oblivion,  and Rock Band.

I'd venture that popular opinion isn't so popular.  Especially since what it tried to emulate,  Gears of War,  sold more than three times as many copies.

I also have to point out,  when Black & White was released,  it got the same treatment.  5 years later all the publications were apologizing for gushing all over it.

I'll guarantee you it'll be the same here.  Because at the end of the day you've got bad AI,  a path almost as linear as FF13's rail walk,  Daikatana quality level design,  dodgy story,  and it's not even an RPG by any standard.

Given that these same sites just gushed all over DA2 and it's resuse of levels,  I'm pretty safe in saying that it's all PR.  Especially since Starcraft 2 sold almost as many units in 48 hours as ME2 sold period.

Modifié par Gatt9, 17 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[Kasper Finknottle]

Akizora wrote...

After Mass Effect 2 I am more inclined to buy Mass Effect 3 than I was buying Mass Effect 2 after Mass Effect 1, it was a much more streamlined and cinematic experience on Mass Effect 2 which proved to be that streamlining does not always mean oversimplifying. I do hope they reintroduce inventory system but with a lot of tweaks so it's not as cluttered and annoying as before, I also hope they keep the research but change how you farm minerals.

Dragon Age 2 hasn't really impacted anything about Mass Effect, they are two different teams making two completely different games. The only similarities the games carry is that they are both developed by Bioware, as for Dragon Age 2. While I think the game suffered a lot in the substance of the story and companions - the narrative was a lot better than the first Dragon Age and the conversation system was also an improvement (and it borrowed from Mass Effect). The only improvement I can see ME borrowing from Dragon Age 2 are the icons indicating the tone you take in a dialogue, diplomatic, sarcastic, snarky, angry, direct, flirty etc since there were a lot of times in ME2 where I ended up starting a romance without wanting to...

Fair points, though I'd rather have - like others have suggested - romance responses colour coded (i.e. yellow) rather than have 3 word responses preceeded by a heart.

Kp

[ErebUs890]

Gatt9 wrote...

Bishmon wrote...

ME2 has a Metacritic score of 96 based on 98 reviews. Its Metacritic user score is 9.0 based on 1754 ratings. It has a rating of 4.5/5 stars on Amazon based on 396 reviews. It's won dozens of Game of the Year awards.

If you want to try and belittle the popular opinion of the quality of ME2 based on your criticisms of critics, you've got your work cut out for you.

It also got outsold by...

Fable 2,  Uno,  Guitar Hero 2,  Oblivion,  and Rock Band.

I'd venture that popular opinion isn't so popular.  Especially since what it tried to emulate,  Gears of War,  sold more than three times as many copies.

I also have to point out,  when Black & White was released,  it got the same treatment.  5 years later all the publications were apologizing for gushing all over it.

I'll guarantee you it'll be the same here.  Because at the end of the day you've got bad AI,  a path almost as linear as FF13's rail walk,  Daikatana quality level design,  dodgy story,  and it's not even an RPG by any standard.

Given that these same sites just gushed all over DA2 and it's resuse of levels,  I'm pretty safe in saying that it's all PR.  Especially since Starcraft 2 sold almost as many units in 48 hours as ME2 sold period.

ME2 out sold ME1. That's all that counts.

[Kanten]

ErebUs890 wrote...

ME2 out sold ME1. That's all that counts.

By like 200k, and that's only if you include the PS3 version.

If VGchartz is even remotely reliable, it says that the 360 version of ME2 actually sold less than ME1.

In that regard, no, it really didn't.

[CoolioThane]

Rekkampum wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

How is Mass Effect 2 the Avatar of video games?

a) It is not sh*t
The story was good, and as mentioned before, not a rehash of Pocahontas
c) IT WAS FANTASTIC

It is sci-fi though Some people in the media are retarded...quite a few...a lot?

I think the answer is d) all of the above. 

Seriously though, it is an accomplishment for prominent magazines like Time - I've read their stuff for quite some time - to even recognize a videogame in their lists, and even mags like Rollingstone are starting to review and feature segments on games now. They're finally getting the kind of exposure that goes beyond the typical nerd/fanzoid stereotype.

Also, "retarded" or autistic =/= stupid, so I'd advise you to be more careful in your choice of words. 

Whoah, I never said autistic. My sibling has autism, so I know it does not mean stupid. Retard, or how people around me use it, does not mean autistic, it simply means stupid. Like how someone goes..."meh, that film was gay" does not mean it was homosexual, just that it was rubbish. Words are used differently in different areas and cultures, so I think that just because a word may offend someone doesn't mean one should stop using that word, as a lot of common words would be offensive to a person.

Eg. people hate the use of the word Christ as it is blasphemous, but loads of people say it ffs. Retard =/= mental disability in this case, in the way I used it, it means stupid. In fact, by relating retard to autistic people could be classed as offensive in itself. SHAME

The word "retard" as we know it came about as a slur derived from caricatures of autistic or mentally disabled people as "stupid", hence the very point of my comment. Every culture known to man has such a word with this meaning. You may not mean to compare a person you consider "stupid" to a mentally disabled person in your usage, but the two are interconnected in the very origin of the word. It's the very reason the Black Eyed Peas had to edit their song "Let's get it started", which said something else. You, I'm sure, can connect the dots there.

Whether you choose to recognize your complicency in continuing this erroneous image with your usage of the word doesn't matter. The point remains, that you used a word with an inflammatory purpose.

But the point is I didn't insult people with autism, nor do I  have anything against them or anyone else for that matter. The thing is that I will not stop using a word as you take offence to it. If it was that bad, Bioware would block the word, but as it isn't, I am sure you can put up with it and man the **** up. Seriously, people who take offence to anything annoy me the most. Jesus

[CoolioThane]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

The7Sins wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was a piece of crap game. I am sorely disappointed that Bioware took away most of the elements from ME1 that made the Mass Effect universe cool and unique and added in a bunch of unnecessary retcons. Add to the fact ME2 had a ton of plot holes and I gotta say if ME3 is of the same vein as ME2 and does not return to its ME1 roots I will not buy ME3 ever and give yup on the series as a lost cause and not buy anymore Bioware games. I still regret preordering ME2 though it did teach me to never preorder games as they could turn out to be a piece of **** game.

Wow, that is a very balanced argument. Glad you spent time talking about a **** game when you could have been doing something constructive.

What was wrong with it? He provided his opinion with a couple of the reasons he thinks so. It's funny how people here get offended by subjective adjectives. Aren't opinions supposed to be subjective? Aren't they supposed to be reactions to facts about the game. He didn't go into details, but you're just acting butthurt or something. Personally, even if he didn't say much, that's exactly part of what I think of the game. It's like they didn't like most of ME1 and decided to ignore ME2 was a sequel.

So Mass Effect 2 was not thought of as a sequel by Bioware? Despite the continuation of the overall story? Yes, the Saren threat was over, and they were saving the Reper invasion for later based on what we did in ME1, but the whole story is still about the Reapers, which continued on from ME1.

Choices continued over from ME1, perhaps not as many as people wanted, or didn't have enough of an impact that people wanted, but they did, and it was awesome. Once again, I want to suggest that ME2 is the Two Towers of this trilogy, in more than just being the second of the three.

Main enemy in Two Towers: Saruman and Uruk-Hai (Still following Sauron)
Main enemy in ME2: Collectors (Following Reapers)

May have seemed a bit separate, but totally wasn't.

ME2 was much easier and more fun to play than ME, and although they got rid of some RPG ideas, they were not necessary, and made the game more accessible, and fun to play for anyone to pick the game up and play.

"Game reviews are stupid" STFU please, I suppose you will now say the BAFTAs were stupid and everything? 

I'm not "butthurt" as you so pleasantly put it, just fed up of this thread and retarded arguments about how it sucks and then given no substance.

[Zulu_DFA]

Kanten wrote...

ErebUs890 wrote...

ME2 out sold ME1. That's all that counts.

By like 200k, and that's only if you include the PS3 version.

If VGchartz is even remotely reliable, it says that the 360 version of ME2 actually sold less than ME1.

In that regard, no, it really didn't.

That will be real lulz if ME3 sells less than either of those.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[ErebUs890]

Kanten wrote...

ErebUs890 wrote...

ME2 out sold ME1. That's all that counts.

By like 200k, and that's only if you include the PS3 version.

If VGchartz is even remotely reliable, it says that the 360 version of ME2 actually sold less than ME1.

In that regard, no, it really didn't.

So what? ME2 still sold really well. And is continuing to sell really well.

Modifié par ErebUs890, 17 mars 2011 - 10:04 .

[Zulu_DFA]

CoolioThane wrote...
I'm not "butthurt" as you so pleasantly put it, just fed up of this thread and retarded arguments about how it sucks and then given no substance.

You need substance? Seriously?

http://social.biowar...3/index/1472797
http://social.biowar...5/index/4891292

See you in a couple of weeks.