830 réponses à ce sujet

[Anihilus]

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

[RGFrog]

Anihilus wrote...

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

First I've heard of this... references? 

[Dr_Extrem]

RGFrog wrote...

Anihilus wrote...

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

First I've heard of this... references? 

http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-3/


here is your requested source.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Anihilus wrote...

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

First I've heard of this... references? 

http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-3/

here is your requested source.

Oh, right, that's definitely supported by the fact that DA2 is reportedly even more dumbed down than ME2 in some aspects.


Also, what Evil Weasel said.

[thrasher64]

I just traded DA2 in for ME2 (PS3) because I beat DA2 and for the first time after playing a bioware game I had no interest in replaying it. You can beat the entire game by mashing X. The story was completely disjointed and the choices felt like they had NO WEIGHT. I`m really hoping ME2 isnt the same because if it is I`m not buying another Bioware game for a long time.

[Newtype Taichou]

I'm glad you made the post honestly. I'm always talking to my friend about the bad changes BioWare made to ME2.

Sure ME2 IS an RPG, but not the deep RPG ME1 was. I was seriously disappointed in the fact that they removed the customization so thoroughly. Does everyone remember debating on the best company/model for the armour? I think it came down to the Predator VS Colossus armour. I loved that.

Or what about the looting? Hoping you pick up a certain attachment for your guns etc.

The Mako could have been improved rather than removed, I'm sure most ME1 fans would agree. The guns were better in ME1 IMO, the ammo was such an overt attempt at selling out to a broader audience. Remember customizing every aspect of your gun too? Remember your guns overheating at the most critical times? But then remember jacking your guns so much that they wouldn take forever to overheat? So satisfying that was.

Don't even get me started on the powers, how the hell does using medi-gel deplete your energy for biotics?

To conclude it was still great, just not the game I wanted it to be at all. It has given me reservations about ME3.

Me2 is just not the game it should've been in terms of being the RPG that ME1 was.

If they don't go back to their roots at all for ME3 I think I'm just going to buy it and not really be a fan of the franchise anymore.

P.S. REMEMBER THE GRENADES?! BADASS

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 19 mars 2011 - 11:29 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

ME2 was dumbed down as hell, and because some people continued to praise their so cool improvements look at what Bioware just gave us.. the new and simpler DA2.. so people still want to continue with the dumbing down and praise to Bioware? sorry but most of you guys are fools that feel all lucky if a cookie goes your way.

The only thing i saw as an improvement in ME2 was the combat, but that again was dumbed down on another aspect like global power cooldown... amazing.

Anihilus wrote...

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

If that´s true then thumbs up Bioware!

Modifié par MoonChildTheUnholy, 19 mars 2011 - 11:41 .

[FataliTensei]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

*Snip*

So to that brings me to my main arguement, should we trust bioware to give us a fully immersive rpg game like the original mass effect, making it a guranteed first day purchase or will we get a cover-based third person shooter in exotic enviroments with minimum customisation options, making it a game that will go down to $20 in less than a year.

Mass Effect 3 will be even more watered down than the second one, don't get your hopes up for any substance or immersive gameplay.

[colata]

It's strictly my opinion thus subjective.

I started pc gaming with FPS.
I bet I played FPS for good amount of time and can kind of say when I see good action game.

In my mind, ME2's taking route of action game abandoning much of RPG and FPS hybird RPG ( reticule widening when firing / can't aim down the sight when class doesn't have the weapon ability)
feels more realisitic and hardcore and more fit to RPG/ FPS hybrid.

Casual gamers wouldn't mind but I like something hardcore,
if it's RPG, simulation (Falcon allied force, il2), FPS (ghost recon advanced warfighter 2, rainbow six vegas 2, Armed assault, FEAR1), it doesn't matter,

As I found out if game is not stripped down to stupid simplicity, it provides more depth and options thus fun regardless of its difficulty.

ME2 is taking route to simpler, more casual, shallow contents route.
If it's not that good RPG, with bare minimum storyline,

If it's not that good action either I might as well just watch its story unfold on youtube walkthrough 1080p HD.

ME2 might be the last title I buy from bioware.

Modifié par colata, 20 mars 2011 - 12:11 .

[Newtype Taichou]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

ME2 was dumbed down as hell, and because some people continued to praise their so cool improvements look at what Bioware just gave us.. the new and simpler DA2.. so people still want to continue with the dumbing down and praise to Bioware? sorry but most of you guys are fools that feel all lucky if a cookie goes your way.

The only thing i saw as an improvement in ME2 was the combat, but that again was dumbed down on another aspect like global power cooldown... amazing.

Anihilus wrote...

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

If that´s true then thumbs up Bioware!

Dude! Thank you! So many people are praising them, I don't know why. Maybe it's the new-comers. But serisously take a moment and look at what they did. You're right the combat was the only improvement, and that was only technically. Global cooldown? "WTF" is in order.

[Arijharn]

Oh please, considering the combat is a pretty damn important aspect of the game, citing that it was the only improvement makes you sound like you've shoved your head up either a) a hole in the ground or somewhere else.

Was the story really 'dumbed down' or was it simply just not your cup of tea? No wait, don't answer, I doubt I'd ever hear a truly objective answer on these boards.

I will concede that some changes that ME2 made (and it's DLC) wouldn't be in what I'd call the 'best direction' or even one I would make myself, but to say that the game was 'dumbed down' sorta baffles me. Or is the addition of ammunition (*cough*heat sinks*cough*) truly a decision that breaks your immersion -- because I truly doubt that really.

[shep82]

Arijharn wrote...

Oh please, considering the combat is a pretty damn important aspect of the game, citing that it was the only improvement makes you sound like you've shoved your head up either a) a hole in the ground or somewhere else.

Was the story really 'dumbed down' or was it simply just not your cup of tea? No wait, don't answer, I doubt I'd ever hear a truly objective answer on these boards.

I will concede that some changes that ME2 made (and it's DLC) wouldn't be in what I'd call the 'best direction' or even one I would make myself, but to say that the game was 'dumbed down' sorta baffles me. Or is the addition of ammunition (*cough*heat sinks*cough*) truly a decision that breaks your immersion -- because I truly doubt that really.

Without knowing what decisions you don't like I agree with your observations about this dumbed down crap. IMO ME 2 made a few mistakes but in general was a better game. ME 3 will be just as good IMO.

[Newtype Taichou]

Arijharn wrote...

Oh please, considering the combat is a pretty damn important aspect of the game, citing that it was the only improvement makes you sound like you've shoved your head up either a) a hole in the ground or somewhere else.

Was the story really 'dumbed down' or was it simply just not your cup of tea? No wait, don't answer, I doubt I'd ever hear a truly objective answer on these boards.

I will concede that some changes that ME2 made (and it's DLC) wouldn't be in what I'd call the 'best direction' or even one I would make myself, but to say that the game was 'dumbed down' sorta baffles me. Or is the addition of ammunition (*cough*heat sinks*cough*) truly a decision that breaks your immersion -- because I truly doubt that really.

Well first of all I don't understand how one stick their head UP into a hole in the ground.

Secondly, technically the gameplay was the only improvement. The story was great and necessary, I really enjoyed it. The RPG elements however were dumbed down too much and that is an objective observation.

The ammo didn't decrease immersion, but was a bad move because it changed a huge part of the guns that I loved and as a result percluded any type of awesome gun customization.

[Tennessee88]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Anihilus wrote...

For Mass Effect 3 many of the RPG elements we saw in ME1 will be returning. I'm not sure I'd call that "dumbing down"

First I've heard of this... references? 

http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-3/


here is your requested source.

Thats an attitude I like to hear.

Right now I see the problems Bioware experiencing as understandable growing pains in what is an evolving industry. You have games and genres that are becoming more and more popular in a quickly growing and highly competitive industry.

To give an example, I have always been a fan of Bioware, RPGs, Final Fantasy (well up to XII), Black Isle, etc etc. That being said, all but a couple of my friends never played games other than first person shooters and sports games. Fast forward to my first year in college when I joined a fraternity where I keep my love of Baldur's Gate and Babylon 5 to myself because I knew those guys had absolutely no clue what they were. However over the last four years I have been shocked to walk into rooms at the house and find guys playing Mass Effect, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Fallout, on top of the COD crap and NCAA.

I talked to a few of my gaming buddies and realized that people who we thought were too cool (or just didn't game) for Darkspawn or Reapers were playing games regurally now. But I have come to realize that there is still a huge difference between the hardcore and these new gamers. Story is important but extensive lore is not. They enjoy combat as long as its simple and Michael Bay was involved. Graphics take precedence over immersion and environment... hell you can throw immersion out the window.

And stuck right in the middle of this marketing mess is Bioware and EA. The is only compounded by how fast paced, competitive, and dynamic the market has become. We can kick and scream all we want about EA's influence. But when they are fighting battles against a company that can have the best selling game every year despite the fact that its the same game with minor adjustments then what are we to expect.

All of this being said I am hopeful for the future. The above article makes it clear that Bioware is at least aware of the issues gamers are having with some of the directions they are taking. I felt the Mass Effect 2 DLC was a step in the right direction. I don't know about yall but I found the overall experience in LoTSB, Kasumi, and even aspects of Overlord to be much more refined considering the budgets and access to fewer resources. The environments felt more immersive and hand crafted. The attention to detail and willingness to try new things was also refreshing even if implementation was not perfect.

Battlefield 3 seems to be a hint that EA is starting to try a new strategy although only time will tell.

And finally I believe Dragon Age II's reception was a blessing. Because even if it is incredibly sucessful you know that earning Bioware its lowest score ever and the transformation of adoring fans into an angry mob has to throw up red flags.

Regardless though, I will buy ME3 because I am desperate to finish the story with my Shepard. I would say its more appropriate to say that ME3 will influence my continued loyalty to Bioware.

[CoolioThane]

Despite being told you will get more of what you want, you are angry because you don't believe it? Christ, it seems you are intent on bashing the ME team at anything and everything because of how you think ME2 was a failure.

Get over yourself you snivelling, whiney so and so

[Jamesnew2]

if you want a old school rpg then dont bother. If u want a really damn good game then do bother... simple. P.S ME2 and DA2 were both awesome just evolved from the prequels.

[CoolioThane]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

u mad coolio? again? i already gave an explanation as to why i believe they won't change much from ME2, stop being a hater and troll somewhere else.

You are the freaking hater, for I love ME2 and ME, and the universe.

YOU gave an explanation as to why they won't change much from ME2, but someone actually working on the game has stated they will change it.

I and most others would be more inclined to believe the employee who cares about the game over some pleb who has nothing better to do than bash a good thing.

Trolling? You mean someone disagreeing with you, AGAIN, as you act like a really ignorant person is trolling? 

[Nozybidaj]

Evil_Weasel wrote...

Here is a test. Pretend you never played ME1, and a game like ME2 wasnt a sequel, it was just a stand alone. Would you have thought that the game was super awesome, or Gears of War with character levels and choices thrown in? Would you have though it was a good game?

I've always said I would have enjoyed ME2 far more if it was a spin off or if I had never played ME1.  I still would have thought it was "Gears of War with character levels and interactive dialogue" (there aren't really any "choices") but I would have had a higher opinion of it.

My main problem with the game has always been that it fails at being a sequel to the first game.

[wrdnshprd]

personally i loved ME1, was disappointed in ME2 - though still enjoyed some of the DLC.  if ME3 brings back an inventory system, has more min/maxing, and has the level of storytelling of Layer of Shadow Broker then this will blow the first two games out of the water.

also, im an RPG fan AND an overall gamer.. i like all genres not just RPGs.  but when  a game is advertised to be an RPG - even a hybrid - i expect rpg elements like stat management, inventory and character customization to be in the game.. with the exception of character customization, these elements were minimal at best in ME2.

its the same with an FPS/TPS.. if a game is advertised to be an FPS/TPS, i expect reactionary combat that is completely based on skill and not stats, some cool explosions, and, of course, cool weapons.

hopefully ME3 will do a better job of bridging these two genres.. if so, it should be fun.

Modifié par wrdnshprd, 21 mars 2011 - 06:05 .

[Lammylam]

I loved both ME1 and DA:O. I just finished DA2 and I can't say I was disappointed, but I definitely enjoyed DA:O more. I felt the same way about ME2. Then again I think both ME2 and DA2 are transitions to the next installment (well at least DA2 seems like that to me, with the story being only half told and the wide open ending...), which I think is probably why both games feel like there is something lacking. Perhaps it is because there is no closure to the story yet. Things are still up in the air, and we are stuck waiting for it.

[Yakko77]

While I liked the story and initial game experience of ME1 I felt the game play and combat of ME2 was superior and the RPG elements like the interrupts and stats were better and more efficient.

Also, except for a couple technical bugs which I'm waiting for a patch, I like every aspect of DA2 better than DA:O.

So in short, ME3 can't get here soon enough!!!

[shep82]

Yakko77 wrote...

While I liked the story and initial game experience of ME1 I felt the game play and combat of ME2 was superior and the RPG elements like the interrupts and stats were better and more efficient.

Also, except for a couple technical bugs which I'm waiting for a patch, I like every aspect of DA2 better than DA:O.

So in short, ME3 can't get here soon enough!!!

Can't comment yet on DA2 but as for the rest of your comment I agree. ME 2 was a major improvement on ME and I expect the same with ME 3 even with the MP controversy.

[Newtype Taichou]

wrdnshprd wrote...

personally i loved ME1, was disappointed in ME2 - though still enjoyed some of the DLC.  if ME3 brings back an inventory system, has more min/maxing, and has the level of storytelling of Layer of Shadow Broker then this will blow the first two games out of the water.

also, im an RPG fan AND an overall gamer.. i like all genres not just RPGs.  but when  a game is advertised to be an RPG - even a hybrid - i expect rpg elements like stat management, inventory and character customization to be in the game.. with the exception of character customization, these elements were minimal at best in ME2.

its the same with an FPS/TPS.. if a game is advertised to be an FPS/TPS, i expect reactionary combat that is completely based on skill and not stats, some cool explosions, and, of course, cool weapons.

hopefully ME3 will do a better job of bridging these two genres.. if so, it should be fun.

So true, people always say ME2 was great. Sure it was by itself, but it wasn't the "great" is should have been. Meaning it should've been a great RPG like ME1. I expected that which is why I was disappointed.

I've always said I would have enjoyed ME2 far more if it was a spin off
or if I had never played ME1.  I still would have thought it was "Gears
of War with character levels and interactive dialogue" (there aren't
really any "choices") but I would have had a higher opinion of it.

My main problem with the game has always been that it fails at being a sequel to the first game.

Pretty much sums up my position, great comment.


And as far as what Christina Norman said I still have my reservations. Let's see just how much more of an RPG ME3 will be.

[Franzius]

I've always said I would have enjoyed ME2 far more if it was a spin off
or if I had never played ME1.  I still would have thought it was "Gears
of War with character levels and interactive dialogue" (there aren't
really any "choices") but I would have had a higher opinion of it.

My main problem with the game has always been that it fails at being a sequel to the first game.

Completely agree with you!

I just would like to add that, as someone else has already mentioned, DA2 is the result of the fake success of ME2: all the False & Useless Game Awards, the blind dullness of some shooter fans, the reviews & the buzz & the positive comments made up by Bioware employees in incognito (...), the EA marketing, few (left) ultra hard-core Bioware fans etc...

The truth is that ME2 is a faaar inferior experience in respect of ME1. The evidence is everywhere.

And again it is not only about the lack of RPG elements!
ME2 has huge issue in terms of plot & game design (super short & linear corridor level, no real choices to make, the overall game structure is a "bad designed - recruit 12 people for what?!?!- , so superficial in the mecanics, 8bit era galaxy maps etc.., no exploration, no looting etc...)

As it is for me ME2 is a real mess. Maybe it is due to a short development time imposed by EA... We will never know.
But it is sad that we will never have the opportnity to experience the TRUE sequel for ME1.

Now I have very low expectation for ME3... In less then 2 year they have to develop the game (for 3 different systems), & change practically everything in the mecanics, add again exploration, looting, party managemnet, inventory etc...  They have already failed. And I really have no trust in Cristina "THE CUTTER" Norman.

Probably I will play ME3... in the next 2-3 years.

I was hesitant after DA:Origins on consoles.
Then the truth has been revealed after ME2.
DA2 is just the next milestone.

Bioware is dead. In time it will be remembered togheter with Westwood studios, Bulfrog, Origin, Maxis etc...

Modifié par Franzius, 22 mars 2011 - 08:11 .

[Arijharn]

Newtype Taichou wrote...
Well first of all I don't understand how one stick their head UP into a hole in the ground.

Ooh, you got me there, well done!

Newtype wrote..
Secondly, technically the gameplay was the only improvement. The story was great and necessary, I really enjoyed it. The RPG elements however were dumbed down too much and that is an objective observation.

So... the gameplay was improved in a game and somehow it's been 'dumbed down'? o.0.

I don't know about you, but I hated in ME1 if I'm playing an Infiltrator I have to sink half+ points into my sniper rifle before I'm even able to wield it with a modicum of skill, so I can't agree with you at all that it's been 'dumbed down.' Streamlined as an alternative, sure.

Dumbed down makes me think it was purposely simplified for no real reason, but as far as I can tell, they 'simplified' things to make it easier to grasp for the purposes of the gameplay experience. It wasn't fun (IMO) to spend something like 3/4 of your points into Sniper Rifles before you can use it properly. Having said that; I do miss special unlockable abilities in weapon trees (such as Carnage, such as Overkill etc) but I wouldn't agree to it being 'dumbed down.' It might make it easier for a moron to grasp ME2 than it would have been for ME1, but I don't think that's necessarily bad in and of itself.

Newtype wrote...
The ammo didn't decrease immersion, but was a bad move because it changed a huge part of the guns that I loved and as a result percluded any type of awesome gun customization.

I sorta agree and sort of not. I thought it was an absolute pain in the ass to go into inventory management every time I wanted to tailor my weapon to my targets (like say anti-synthetic for Geth, Radiation-type's for organics or whatever) but I liked how it was simplified for ME2, although I also thought it was bollocks in how it was now handled as class mechanics as opposed to some sort of customisation for your weapon system (because somehow Adepts aren't trained to learn how to put 'Inferno' customisations on their weapons now in the space of 2 years?)

Ammo in and of itself now I thought of being an actual improvement, because it was easy to 'game-the-system' and get weapons that never over-heat. That may sound awesome really, but imo it made the game ocassionally too easy, especially with Overkill (iirc, that meant that the AR couldn't overheat while active)... that is of course if you didn't just spam Marksman with pistols since they practically owned everything anyway. The only thing I disliked with the ammo system nowadays is the fact that there is no 'ambient cooldown'; I'd like to have seen some sort of hybrid between ME1 and what we get now in ME2, but apparently the design team tried such an approach but it didn't work as well as they hoped (although; apparently Christina left those things in the game to allow pc gamers to mod it back in without difficulties, but I don't know the details).

I get that some things aren't to your taste. That's cool. That's understandable and dare I say it, on some issues I may agree with them. However; to say that it's 'dumbed down' is something that seems almost offensive for some reason.