830 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

88mphSlayer wrote...

the Dragon Age team had spent part of that 5 year dev cycle on the first game prepping to make sequels, i think the shoddy console ports and Bioware's flagship titles needing to be shipped in 2011 ate into the budget/schedule for DA2 a lot, you can't tell me that Bioware's finest abilities are present in DA2 copy/paste environments or almost cel-shaded graphics when compared to Mass Effect 2

That seems to be the biggest issue in the critics reviews. Oh some critics, notably GS, don't like the new mechanics, but the criticisms are more directed towards the more linear story and reused environments. Perhaps its because they blew their budgets on other things. Perhaps its because too many designers and devs got dragged onto SWTOR.

But this isn't the first non-smash that Bioware has turned out.

[Zulu_DFA]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Kandid001 wrote...

Those who praise and enjoy DA2 aside, I'm sort of glad DA2 is getting squished by some fans and pro critics. It'll make BioWare focus on ME3 to make it a full and enjoyable game instead of half assing it.

I'm afraid not. Something tells me the ME3 development is clearing the last curve, so we'll have to deal with the consequences of ME2's getting those 150 GOTYs. It'll be even more shiny, even more retard-proof, and packing even less sense. And if something goes wrong with the "critical acclaim" this time, EA can simply ditch the franchise.

I'm afraid you possess a dangerously pessimistic outlook toward life, Zulu. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

I don't think 2012 is going to see the end of the world or something, but I do think that civilization has entered a phase of decline, and ME1 to ME2 transition is a clear sign of it.

[Graunt]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

I certainly am, don't get me wrong I was a huge bioware fan, I bought and played ME1, ME2, and DA:O, since day 1 release. Check out my gamertag, I even play the KOTOR games from time to time. However, even though i enjoyed the original mass effect and dragon age, mass effect 2 left a very sour taste in my mouth. It is the only bioware game that i own that i have not played through twice, and it probably will stay that way. I still bought most of the dlc's  because I am still in love with this great lore that bioware has created.

Now that we have seen how gamespot says that dragon age 2 has followed ME2 traditions with all the rpg systems stripped down to their bare minimum. I wonder since Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 were released relatively soon after the original games, obviously with EA's influence, if that was the ultimate reason to strip down all these crucial rpg elements like taking out free-roam planetary sections and giving the great Commander Shepard scanning duties. Now Mass Effect 3 is coming out, much sooner than probably any other bioware sequel...

So to that brings me to my main arguement, should we trust bioware to give us a fully immersive rpg game like the original mass effect, making it a guranteed first day purchase or will we get a cover-based third person shooter in exotic enviroments with minimum customisation options, making it a game that will go down to $20 in less than a year.

Mass Effect 2 was definitely not released after Mass Effect at nearly the same speed as Dragon Age 2 was from Origins.  Not even close.  And no, I'm not too worried about Mass Effect 3, although I would be annoyed if they stripped what RPG elements are left away to get even more "CoD fans", or added the dreaded multiplayer.  Three player Co-Op on the other hand wouldn't be bad.

For the record, Mass Effect had a bigger first impression and the story had a much larger impact, plus biotics were better -- but Mass Effect 2 is the superior game in all of the areas that matter the most.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 mars 2011 - 04:37 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

(...)

I don't think 2012 is going to see the end of the world or something, but I do think that civilization has entered a phase of decline, and ME1 to ME2 transition is a clear sign of it.

[transcendent12]

Anyone who thought mass effect 1 missions were better than mass effect 2 missions is completely delusional...
Either that or they only did one side quest and experienced the single building, used in every single quest almost identically, only once.

[theriddlen]

After ME2 - of course, it's the best game in the fcking universe.

After DA2? Hell no, after demo i wouldn't touch it even with a stick, but these franchises were always different, so i have nothing to worry about.

[Zulu_DFA]

Kandid001 wrote...

I wouldn't call ME2 "retard proof", it's too harsh for people who loved it more than ME1, but despite being a decent game there were many things it did wrong.

Being "retard proof" is not a bad thing, nor it is to like a retard proof game. Tetris is a retard proof game, for instance. However, once you've been able to play Pentix, or Tetris 3D, you'll never enjoy playing Tetris again.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 mars 2011 - 04:43 .

[88mphSlayer]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

the Dragon Age team had spent part of that 5 year dev cycle on the first game prepping to make sequels, i think the shoddy console ports and Bioware's flagship titles needing to be shipped in 2011 ate into the budget/schedule for DA2 a lot, you can't tell me that Bioware's finest abilities are present in DA2 copy/paste environments or almost cel-shaded graphics when compared to Mass Effect 2

That seems to be the biggest issue in the critics reviews. Oh some critics, notably GS, don't like the new mechanics, but the criticisms are more directed towards the more linear story and reused environments. Perhaps its because they blew their budgets on other things. Perhaps its because too many designers and devs got dragged onto SWTOR.

But this isn't the first non-smash that Bioware has turned out.

yep, it seems like the combat is fine for most people, but being bored by the environments is something that grinds anybody's gears in a game that takes dozens of hours to play + possible replays

[chester013]

Orkboy wrote...

I must have missed the announcement where Bioware was sold off to Square Enix, as it certainly appears that they have created the next Final Fantasy game.

DA2 is the first ever Bioware game that I won't  be preordering or buying on day 1, and will rather wait for the inevitable ultimate edition in a couple of years.

Haven't decided on ME3 yet.


For me, Bioware are no longer the kings of the RPG.

I must have missed the announcement that said that DA2 is anthing like a FF game, playing the demo I wasn't bored to tears. Face it, a company with the reputation that BW has isn't going to just sit on it's hands and keep churning out the same old RPG's that have been around for years. With ME2 and now DA2 they've shaken up what i think is a pretty tired genre added some excitement and some action.

Oh and way to show your indignation OP, buying the game and all the DLC that'll show them.

As for ME2 "watering down" the gameplay? Care to elaborate? Because I revisted ME1 a few weeks ago, and the "free roaming" consisted of walking around different colored landscapes salvaging crap (with the occasional outdoor fight) and what at it's core felt like a pretty lackluster shooter.
Now you might go on and say yes, they made ME2 a shooter and shooters aren't rpg's, thats not what I bought it for and all the other stuff that clutters these forums but come on, in the near future, hell now even do you think combat which has projectile weaponry at its core really could work as a traditional rpg? If you do that's great, why not make your own game? I'm not being sarcasitic either give it a crack who knows you could make something great but complaining about what ME and now what DA isn't won't change Bioware's mind or creative direction.

I honestly beleive that ME2 and DA2 have changed for the better, sure I don't like mineral scanning either but I find many traditional RPG elements, looting in particular, totally unrealistic and it's those kind of things that break my immersion.

FemShep - "Hey I just found this sweet armor"

Garrus - "Nice, where from?

FemShep - "That dude I just killed!"

Garrus - "Erm, don't mean to nitpick I don't wanna be that guy or anything but that's a guy. That suit won't fit you and besides, you just shot him 8 times in the chest you'd be better off straining vegetables with it."

FemShep "nah i'm sure it'll be fine, look at the higher arbitrary number!"

See what I mean?

Modifié par chester013, 09 mars 2011 - 05:03 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Terror_K wrote...

(...)

Beyond the gameplay changes, what actually bothered me more was how the presentation changed overall from being a mature, sci-fi space opera homage to the great sci-fi movies and shows of the late 70's to early 90's for sci-fi nerds of the era into more of an over-the-top modern Hollywood blockbuster action flick affair made for teenagers. Beyond that the whole thing just seemed to be presented a little more juvenile and I felt was even insulting to my intelligence a lot of the time, as well as breaking my immersion. Non-gameplay factors like the Mission Complete screens, giant pictured pop-ups, loading screens, childlike interfaces, massive plotholes and lore inconsistencies and squaddies running around in almost nothing in the dangers of space did far more harm to ME2 to me than any watered-down gameplay factor did.

I absolutely agree with this, Terror. Well put.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 09 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[General9999]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

...well it's clear that i am talking to the wrong bioware fans when i re-joined these forums lol. You guys realize that DA2 is based off one city? I even hear it also includes a lot of repetive dungeons on top of that... Mass Effect 2 was not a better game than the original ME in any way, maybe combat if they didn't take out looting and add in ammunition. The story was worse, name me one memorable experience in ME2 compared to the many in the original. The planets, missions, characters, atmosphere were all much better and memorable in the original.

The Citadel in the original game was the best setting/planet in any bioware game for me. The environment, characters, side-quests, and the general gain of knowledge you get from that planet was truly amasing. Also add to the fact that during your journey, re-visiting the planet gained you more quests and activitie to do. Now think of the citadel in Mass Effect 2... Thank god for Skyrim, atleast those developers realised there mistakes from oblivion and are trying to be more unique, immersive, and full of new RPG ideas and features. It seems like their seeking influence from their fan-favourite game Morrowind. However, Bioware now has no franchise which they can consider an actual, credible rpg game instead of "action-rpg".

you are right i played about 5 hours dragon age 2 the dungeons are EXACTLY the same and i mean exactly it show that it is in different part of the map but its still same only different enemies what the hell bioware didnt bother to put different dungeons instead copy paste same dungeon  over and over and hope nobody will notice

[Graunt]

chester013 wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

I must have missed the announcement where Bioware was sold off to Square Enix, as it certainly appears that they have created the next Final Fantasy game.

DA2 is the first ever Bioware game that I won't  be preordering or buying on day 1, and will rather wait for the inevitable ultimate edition in a couple of years.

Haven't decided on ME3 yet.


For me, Bioware are no longer the kings of the RPG.

I must have missed the announcement that said that DA2 is anthing like a FF game, playing the demo I wasn't bored to tears. Face it, a company with the reputation that BW has isn't going to just sit on it's hands and keep churning out the same old RPG's that have been around for years. With ME2 and now DA2 they've shaken up what i think is a pretty tired genre added some excitement and some action.

Oh and way to show your indignation OP, buying the game and all the DLC that'll show them.

I'm just going to repost what I already said in the "BODY SLAMMING" thread...

I know it's heresy around these parts to make such bold statements, but I'm actually having fun with the game so far.  Another thing that is going to sound like utter trash to those who can't take their nostaliga filters off for a second, is that the game is reminding me quite a bit of KOTOR.  Sure, the combat is obviously different and it's not Star Wars, but it "feels" very similar to me.

Obviously it's not Origins, but then again that's not necessarily a bad thing either.  That game wasn't nearly as perfect as a lot of you would claim, and DA2, while flawed in many areas, isn't that much worse, if even worse at all.  The only truly standout thing for me in that game was Morrigan and Alistair.  The combat was awful (and no, not in a "hard" way either) and the story the same cliched rehash we've already been given from every other Bioware game.

Modifié par Graunt, 09 mars 2011 - 04:56 .

[chester013]

Graunt wrote...

chester013 wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

I must have missed the announcement where Bioware was sold off to Square Enix, as it certainly appears that they have created the next Final Fantasy game.

DA2 is the first ever Bioware game that I won't  be preordering or buying on day 1, and will rather wait for the inevitable ultimate edition in a couple of years.

Haven't decided on ME3 yet.


For me, Bioware are no longer the kings of the RPG.

I must have missed the announcement that said that DA2 is anthing like a FF game, playing the demo I wasn't bored to tears. Face it, a company with the reputation that BW has isn't going to just sit on it's hands and keep churning out the same old RPG's that have been around for years. With ME2 and now DA2 they've shaken up what i think is a pretty tired genre added some excitement and some action.

Oh and way to show your indignation OP, buying the game and all the DLC that'll show them.

I'm just going to repost what I already said in the "BODY SLAMMING" thread...

I know it's heresy around these parts to make such bold statements, but I'm actually having fun with the game so far.  Another thing that is going to sound like utter trash to those who can't take their nostaliga filters off for a second, is that the game is reminding me quite a bit of KOTOR.  Sure, the combat is obviously different and it's not Star Wars, but it "feels" very similar to me.

Obviously it's not Origins, but then again that's not necessarily a bad thing either.  That game wasn't nearly as perfect as a lot of you would claim, and DA2, while flawed in many areas, isn't that much worse, if even worse at all.  The only truly standout thing for me in that game was Morrigan and Alistair.  The combat was awful (and no, not in a "hard" way either) and the story the same cliched rehash we've already been given from every other Bioware game.

Oh those 2 handed weapons, you don't swing something like that you'd fall over. Two handers made me sad in DA:o.

[Lumikki]

This is taste police. Anyone who doesn't like ME1 and likes ME2 is called back to school for intelligent check. Everyone with different taste than us is arested for betrayal of they game community.*wink*

Point was that everyone can have they own taste, different taste is allowed and having different taste doesn't make anyone more intelligent than other. Also wishing failure, just to prove point, isn't really respectful. Nor is suppoting that point with continues "reminder" about that point.

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 mars 2011 - 05:41 .

[88mphSlayer]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

i am glad more people are realising how bad Dragon Age 2 really is, from the very beginning when the developers first announced the game and said they were following ME2 influences and it would release in a years time, i stopped caring then and there. The more info I heard about the game, the more my fears were becoming reality.

For people saying that it does not matter because they are different developers, think of it this way: DA:O came out b4 ME2 and had much more rpg features and replayability with all the origins etc. Then ME2 came out and we all know how that turned out, then DA2 comes out the following year and we all know how that turned out. Bioware bought the Dragon Age developers, bioware and ea have complete authority over these devlopers, including what features to have in a game and when to release the game.

i think if DA2 had been delayed a year and had the same production values as Mass Effect 2 people would probably be a lot more tolerant of the design changes

the way things work: early impressions matter a lot, if QA is poor or the game has the copy/paste problems like DA2 has then that cuts into what people think is worth $60

in the case of ME2, if you're at least giving gamers something they feel is worth the $60 pricemark, they'll be happy with the purchase and then talk about complaints later on... if you can't get out of the gate with that nowadays then word of mouth will plague your release

it's not really "fixing" the problems tho, and i sure hope ME3 isn't just a graphical showcase (shouldn't be considering the engine is basically the same for the 3rd game, content will have to impress us mostly) to placate us, but it's how things work

[jeweledleah]

hmm, I don't think DA2 is bad, in fact it looks to be a great fun I just don't think it works well as a sequel. and since ME3 is a sequel, a last part of the trilogy, it makes me nervous. with Dragon age universe at least I don't care about characters much, so its not as annoying to me (as it might be to people who actually do care about DA characters the way I care about ME ones). We'll see how that goes, but for now ME3 is off pre-order list for me - whether it gets ordered at all will depend on the spoilers that will inevitably show up the first week after release

[Dragoonlordz]

Il Divo wrote...

You say you adored the vast, dead worlds of Mass Effect. That's fair. I however felt that, along with the inventory, planet exploration was one of the game's greatest flaws, especially since side quests were so heavily tied into them.
 

In ME2 the major difference with this aspect is it took you around the same amount of time to scan these planets from space as did exploring them, only this time you don't have the pretty scenery to look at while doing so. I hated what they did with this aspect in ME2 it was one of the major factors of why I sold it before completing it as opposed to still owning ME1.

There were other reasons too but this reply is in relation to that aspect of the game.

[AlanC9]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
In ME2 the major difference with this aspect is it took you around the same amount of time to scan these planets from space as did exploring them,

Really? I timed myself in ME2 and found that I only needed two hours of mining in the whole game. I'm pretty sure Mako driving would have taken me more time than that in ME1, if I had any reason to actually do it.

[AlanC9]

Graunt wrote...
... and the story the same cliched rehash we've already been given from every other Bioware game.

Do you ever get the impression that's what some folks want from a Bioware plot?

[Il Divo]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


In ME2 the major difference with this aspect is it took you around the same amount of time to scan these planets from space as did exploring them, only this time you don't have the pretty scenery to look at while doing so.

Personally, the amount of time spent scanning planets for upgrades did not even come close to the amount of time spent traversing the galaxy in the Mako, so it didn't feel as problematic for me.

I hated what they did with this aspect in ME2 it was one of the major factors of why I sold it before completing it as opposed to still owning ME1.

There were other reasons too but this reply is in relation to that aspect of the game.

Which is fine, but that's still hardly a call for Mass Effect being a much better experience from an exploration perspective. I wasn't a fan of planet-scanning, but found that between random minerals and import bonuses I rarely felt the need to.

However, keep in mind that saying Mass Effect 2's planet-scanning is bad, or worse than Mass Effect, is not the same as saying there was anything good about planet exploration to begin with. If Mass Effect 3 were to incorporate some new mini-game that's even worse than the Mako/planet-scanning, I'm not suddenly going to start campaigning to bring the Mako back. I'm going to say scrap it and bring something good to the table. As it stands, I did not really enjoy Mass Effect's exploration, so I'm not really upset to see it go.

[Reginthorn]

 Sorry dude you are on your own! Mass Effect 2 is a waaayyy better game then Mass Effect. I am also enjoying Dragon Age II right now. 

[CoolioThane]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

...well it's clear that i am talking to the wrong bioware fans when i re-joined these forums lol. You guys realize that DA2 is based off one city? I even hear it also includes a lot of repetive dungeons on top of that... Mass Effect 2 was not a better game than the original ME in any way, maybe combat if they didn't take out looting and add in ammunition. The story was worse, name me one memorable experience in ME2 compared to the many in the original. The planets, missions, characters, atmosphere were all much better and memorable in the original.

The Citadel in the original game was the best setting/planet in any bioware game for me. The environment, characters, side-quests, and the general gain of knowledge you get from that planet was truly amasing. Also add to the fact that during your journey, re-visiting the planet gained you more quests and activitie to do. Now think of the citadel in Mass Effect 2... Thank god for Skyrim, atleast those developers realised there mistakes from oblivion and are trying to be more unique, immersive, and full of new RPG ideas and features. It seems like their seeking influence from their fan-favourite game Morrowind. However, Bioware now has no franchise which they can consider an actual, credible rpg game instead of "action-rpg".

You are an ignorant douchebag. Just because the game is not how you want it, and has not progressed the way you wanted it to makes the series lesser...

I loved the characters a helluva lot more in the second game, with the returning squaddies being way more interesting and the new characters equally as awesome. I hope you don't buy ME3 and come spouting s**t on here as it did not go the way you wanted. PATHETIC

[Atilius the Hun]

SpaceDesperado wrote...

Now that we have seen how gamespot says that dragon age 2 has followed ME2 traditions with all the rpg systems stripped down to their bare minimum. I wonder since Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 were released relatively soon after the original games, obviously with EA's influence, if that was the ultimate reason to strip down all these crucial rpg elements like taking out free-roam planetary sections and giving the great Commander Shepard scanning duties. Now Mass Effect 3 is coming out, much sooner than probably any other bioware sequel...

I don't think we need to worry about ME3 being rushed.  The period of development falls in line with ME2 and it looks to be much longer than DA II. 

Period of time for release between DA1 and 2 is 1 yr & 4 months.

Period of time of release between ME 1 and ME2 is 2 years and 3 months.

Period of time of release between ME2 and ME3 is assumed to be 1 year and 10 months (give or take a month or two) if it is released on Nov. of this year.

You also have to remember that Bioware is working with the same tools that they used in ME1 and repolished in ME2.  I'm sure they've repolished it again, but the point is that they have been using the same tools for a while now which means that they can only become faster and better as they're used to them.  This helps them develop the game faster. 

On the other hand, you can see that DA II might've been rushed as it was released so soon after DA:O AND with many substantial changes.  I don't think we're seeing that with ME3.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

I love both Mass Effect games and never really like DA idk why. But i liked ME1 more due how much more story driven it was. ME2 Has ME1 beat on graphics and combat tho it was kinda stupid how every problem could be solved by just blasting your way through it. Hope ME3 has more dialog and a more intense story which seems likely showing how good LotSB was.