1560 réponses à ce sujet

[naughty99]

Does this mean that the NVIDIA cards are not able to run DA2 with DX11 but it works fine for the AMD cards?

Is it mainly NVIDIA users who are having DX11 problems? It seems to run very well on my laptop with relatively low quality DX11 AMD card (Mobility 5830), with no crashes, using old Catalyst drivers from 2010.

This is not good news because I'm planning to build a desktop with a GTX 580 soon.

Modifié par naughty99, 14 avril 2011 - 05:52 .

[Ksandor]

They deliberately did not spend more time to optimize DirecX11 renderer. Consoles don't support DirectX 11 so they did not bother with it. They thought to add some eye candy without spending too much resources on it. What you get is a broken game. If they say they support DirectX 11 then the game should run on most DirectX 11 systems properly. It is their job to ensure that. They are paid for QA not us. And we pay them for the game so we finance them. They should do it, they must do it. I wish somebody sue them for fooling people by saying their game supports DirectX 11 but in fact does not run smootthly on most systems. PC is a side issue, console sales rule.

[Gorath Alpha]

naughty99 wrote...

Does this mean that the NVIDIA cards are not able to run DA2 with DX11 but it works fine for the AMD cards?

Is it mainly NVIDIA users who are having DX11 problems? It seems to run very well on my laptop with relatively low quality DX11 AMD card (Mobility 5830), with no crashes, using old Catalyst drivers from 2010.

This is not good news because I'm planning to build a desktop with a GTX 580 soon.

Who misinformed you that badly?  The HD 5830 isn't at all "Low Quality".  It's on the border inside of High End, but just barely above where Medium Quality tops out.  A 5850 was solidly High End, while the 5870 was getting near the top of High End, with only the dual-core HD 5890 any higher. 

The real Low End a year ago was the HD 5450 for a real card, or the HD 4250 for a Chipset video chip system.  Since I could care less about laptops, if your manufacturer elected to do something really weird and choke off the actual decent performance in favor of saving on battery life, or to be able to skimp on cooling capacity, that's the reason game developers also ignore Laptops, the manufacturers won't adhere to any standards. 

[naughty99]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

Who misinformed you that badly?  The HD 5830 isn't at all "Low Quality".  It's on the border inside of High End, but just barely above where Medium Quality tops out.  A 5850 was solidly High End, while the 5870 was getting near the top of High End, with only the dual-core HD 5890 any higher.  

The real Low End a year ago was the HD 5450 for a real card, or the HD 4250 for a Chipset video chip system.  Since I could care less about laptops, if your manufacturer elected to do something really weird and choke off the actual decent performance in favor of saving on battery life, or to be able to skimp on cooling capacity, that's the reason game developers also ignore Laptops, the manufacturers won't adhere to any standards.  

As I mentioned above, I consider the Mobility 5830 to be "relatively" low quality, especially when compared with desktop cards.

The AMD Mobility 5830 is basically a gimped desktop 5770. In my case, it has been further gimped by the HP Envy motherboard that does not permit GDDR5.

At any rate, I'm happy with the laptop because it generally delivers playable frame rates at 1920x1080, and in the case of DA2, it performs extraordinarily well except with cutscenes containing fire images or moving shadows on terrain (e.g., Bone Pit, Sundermount).

But I am surprised to hear so many forum members with much higher end NVIDIA desktop cards are experiencing frequent crashes while it plays stable in DX11 mode on my laptop. Is this primarily a problem with NVIDIA cards?

Modifié par naughty99, 14 avril 2011 - 07:58 .

[Gorath Alpha]

The cards themselves are probably not defective, but the drivers almost certainly are doing something differently with regard to DA2, compared to drivers from AMD for Radeon cards. The likelihood for nVIDIA to screw up Bioware games goes back to NWN2 (technically an Obsidian sequel to that game, but using the game engine created by Bioware for NWN and KotOR, and then updated by Obsidian for KotOR2).

nVIDIA started releasing drivers two and a half years ago that literally "broke" NWN2 for various Geforces that ran the game just fine on older drivers, and continued releasing drivers that continued to fail in NWN2 for almost a year.

[AndyW1384]

Huh. The whole-system freeze I was getting when loading a save or new area (in DX11 only) is still there, just less frequent.

[mutters irritably] <_<

Modifié par AndyW1384, 14 avril 2011 - 08:34 .

[Disemboweler]

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

Exactly same here. Got a brand new GTX 580 last week and it won't run DA2 on Direct X 11 without crashing. But I can run Metro 2033 DX 11 and BF Bad Company 2 as well as Crysis 2 maxed out. Very few can play DA2 on DX 11 so it's either drivers or the game was never really optimised for DX 11 properly. Bioware have really let down their fanbase here. Next game they release I'll be waiting months to see if it works before buying.

I don't think t's accurate to say that very few people can play DA2 in DX11 - I've had very few problems running it (10 hours straight quite often, and at least a couple hours on a daily basis) since the 270 series beta drivers came out (I have a GTX 570).  Before the new drivers, I realised I had to downclock my card a bit from the "factory overclock" levels it came with, but the crashes I had then were definitely hardware related (BSOD), not bugs in DA2.

I'm noticing everyone with a GTX 580 seems to be the people who have DX11 issues.  I don't know why GTX 580's would be an issue when GTX 570's are fine, but I CAN suggest one thing - NEVER leave the setting that sets the power management at 'Adaptive', ALWAYS use 'Prefer maximum performance'.  Adaptive power mode on these cards is NOT stable.  You won't burn out your card using the max performance setting, just use a bit more power than you need to when it's not in use.  But 'Adaptive' mode has caused issues with almost every newer game I can think of - it's not a very well implemented setting on NVidia's part!

[Jason_53]

Disemboweler wrote...

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

Exactly same here. Got a brand new GTX 580 last week and it won't run DA2 on Direct X 11 without crashing. But I can run Metro 2033 DX 11 and BF Bad Company 2 as well as Crysis 2 maxed out. Very few can play DA2 on DX 11 so it's either drivers or the game was never really optimised for DX 11 properly. Bioware have really let down their fanbase here. Next game they release I'll be waiting months to see if it works before buying.

I don't think t's accurate to say that very few people can play DA2 in DX11 - I've had very few problems running it (10 hours straight quite often, and at least a couple hours on a daily basis) since the 270 series beta drivers came out (I have a GTX 570).  Before the new drivers, I realised I had to downclock my card a bit from the "factory overclock" levels it came with, but the crashes I had then were definitely hardware related (BSOD), not bugs in DA2.

I'm noticing everyone with a GTX 580 seems to be the people who have DX11 issues.  I don't know why GTX 580's would be an issue when GTX 570's are fine, but I CAN suggest one thing - NEVER leave the setting that sets the power management at 'Adaptive', ALWAYS use 'Prefer maximum performance'.  Adaptive power mode on these cards is NOT stable.  You won't burn out your card using the max performance setting, just use a bit more power than you need to when it's not in use.  But 'Adaptive' mode has caused issues with almost every newer game I can think of - it's not a very well implemented setting on NVidia's part!

I´ve been reading this post for a while and not only the people with a GTX 580 have DX11 problems,  people with 200, 400 & 500 cards have them too.
I have a 560 Ti and the game gave me a lot of grief with DX11 settings until I downloaded and installed the 270.51 drivers and the high resolution textures pack.
The game is running smoothly so far in very high with the highres textures enabled, DX11, ambient oclussion & diffusion depth field on, AA 2X & AF 4X.
My resoluton is 1440x900 @75Hz.
I haven´t played it for too long (I´m on my  last ME2 playthrough to leave everything ready for ME3) but in those few hours no crashes like those I had at the begining wich forced me to reset my pc because it went totally frozen (not good in windows 7 ultimate X64) have occured. 
Off Topic: Is it just me only or anyone else here think that ME2 has prettier graphics?

[SusanStoHelit]

Disemboweler wrote...

I'm noticing everyone with a GTX 580 seems to be the people who have DX11 issues.  I don't know why GTX 580's would be an issue when GTX 570's are fine, but I CAN suggest one thing - NEVER leave the setting that sets the power management at 'Adaptive', ALWAYS use 'Prefer maximum performance'.  Adaptive power mode on these cards is NOT stable.  You won't burn out your card using the max performance setting, just use a bit more power than you need to when it's not in use.  But 'Adaptive' mode has caused issues with almost every newer game I can think of - it's not a very well implemented setting on NVidia's part!

I have a GTX 570 - and the game constantly crashes if I use DX11.

[Saint345]

DX11 Crash FIXED - Very long post but worth a read if you want to use DX11
For those that just want the solution: Underclock your graphics card. I had to use a clock speed 759 on my GTX580 to get it running stable.. 762 is the next highest I can try, and the crash happens at that speed (though takes a lot longer than under default settings)

And for those that want the details:
DA v1.02 patch, GeForce 270.51 Beta drivers (though I've confirmed the patch happens with all available drivers, the newer ones just fix the framerate)
I run at 1920x1080 resolution, DX11, Very High Graphics, Very High Textures, 4xAA, 4xAF.
I have also tested this fix under 0xAA and 8xAA, and with the other options (blur, screen space occulsion etc) both on and off, aside from impacting framerate, none of them seem to directly attribute to the crash.

I have also verified this under default GeForce settings, aswell as adaptive/max performance, single/dual monitor etc. None of these seemed to make any particular difference either. It all came down purely to the clock speed.

My crash test is very reliable, ensure you have a full party (it was stable at a higher clock speed with 2 followers rather than 3, so you need the third member to tax the system that little bit more). I have tried this in both open areas such as hightown market, and also 'narrow' areas such as alleyways in the docks, and it also makes no difference, the characters themselves seem to be the primary contributor.

Anyways, to make the crash happen in <30 seconds, just hold 'a' or 'd' and spin the camera aorund your character as fast as it will go. If you can do this for about a minute without crashing, you're about as safe from crashes as you're going to be. If your system suffers from the crash problem, you will know in anywhere from 6 - 30 'revolutions'.. from my experience anyway.

Start by reducing your clock by 10 or 15, and then trying the crash test above, and each time it crashes, drop the clock a little further.  If the crash is happening quickly (i.e. 6 revolutions or less) drop it by a lot. if you have to spin for ages before it crashes, just drop it a little.  Or if you cant be bothered, just drop it by 50 or so right away, the framerate hit is pretty small, and you should be fine with that.  (My very first test was a full 100Mhz drop, down to 682... worked fine, at a cost of about 10fps or so)

My system: i5 2500, 8GB Ram, ASUS GTX580 (DUII - Dual Fan model), Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.
The Asus gtx580 comes with a factory clock setting of 782, the 'regular' factory clock speed for a gtx 580 is 772. Asus users can change clock speed using SmartDoctor, I'm unsure for other models.

My Theory: Whatever DX11 calls are being made (probably as part of character rendering) are being done *too fast* on high end cards/Systems. Keep in mind cards like these were not available during DA2 development, so probably DX11 coding was done on slower hardware that could not produce the problem. Other people that are not having problems with their 500 series cards are probably bottlenecked in a different area which is saving them from the problem. Whether this is driver or game code related is for the techs to figure out.. in the meantime we can at least use DX11 again.
(Gratuitous inferred slight at ATi:  Their cards are not faster enough to produce the problem.. sorry I couldnt resist.)

The performance drop when going from 782 to 759 was about 1 FPS.. or 2 FPS if using screen space occlusion (I leave this turned off as it costs around 15 FPS for very minimal quality gain). So even with the clock set at 759, I am running at 55 - 65 FPS, with the settings mentioned at the top of the post. (I also leave the high quality blur and diffusion depth of field ON, as these do not have significant impact on framerate.. these must be set from within the game, the config utility doesnt have options for them)

So the performance hit from underclocking is minimal, and the visual gain from DX11 is totally worth it. So please anyone with a high-end card that is experiencing the periodic crash under DX11 (with no crashes under DX9), please try this fix and post your results to help others.. and pass the word on

Oh and final thought: My card isnt defective. I've played Metrio 2033, Crysis 2, Medal of Honor (the latest one), and Dawn of War 2 + Expansions, all at highest settings, all with framerates v-sync capped at 60fps, and that is with the Asus auto overclocking running a clock speed of 788.. so the fact that Dragon Age 2 relies on underclocking to work is not a reflection on the reliability of the card itself. If you got this far, thanks for reading, hope your DX11 runs fine now

Modifié par Saint345, 15 avril 2011 - 02:55 .

[Saint345]

I should also add that I dont really think requiring to tinker with your hardware at the level of clock speed is an acceptable 'fix' .. But hopefully this can keep people going until the real problem is sorted.

[Gorath Alpha]

Once again, it is almost certainly a weakness in the way that the Geforce driver(s) interact(s) with DA2.   I've suggested it before, but it's still good advice: raise hell on nVIDIA's own gaming forums.

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 15 avril 2011 - 03:27 .

[Withidread]

Dual 580's & 270.51 drivers....
The drivers fixed my framerate, and until the patch everything was golden.
I haven't had any crashes, but the patch re-introduced graphical errors that were not present after the driver upgrade.
Unfortunately, I can't be 100% sure on the crashing issue, because I haven't been able to bring myself to look at DA2 for more than the few minutes it takes to find out if the last tweak I made to the video settings corrected the issue...

So far, no joy.

Update: I uploaded a few screenshots of what I'm getting.

http://social.biowar.../albums/1162147

Update(again): After leaving the PC off overnight, the problems have disappeared, for now. The screenshots linked above and were post reboot, and my temperature monitors did not indicate a heat issue at the time, but, given the circumstances I can't rule out heat as a cause. I've got some additional fans that I was intending to put in the case anyway... I'll install them and keep an eye on things... not that this particular issue is easy to overlook.

Modifié par Withidread, 15 avril 2011 - 06:21 .

[KabukiZero]

I have installed 270.51 beta drivers and i put graphics in "very high" setting and i had no problem and i can played well...but...advanced blur created a horrible effect on the textures of the faces of the characters? i uncheck it because i seen blur effect in characters faces.

[worldcitizen1919]

Ok I used Driver cleaner to clean out all my older drivers because I had changed over from a GTX 280 to a GTX 580 and the tech guy said I didn't have to reinstall drivers but just in case I did a clean out today. The result is so far I've been able to have a few sessions of about an hours play on Direct X 11 with the 266.58 drivers but I'm deliberately not going out of the city because of the black areas. Anyway the only crashes I had were during cut scenes but none during gameplay so far so cleaning out my drivers may have fixed an incompatibility from my old card's settings. Whatever, DA 2 seems playable now except I have to get newer drivers but last time the 270.51 did not install correctly. During installation of the beta drivers the screen went black but did not return so I had to guess as to when the drivers were installed or not and reboot by hard resetting. I am reluctant to install those divers again as my monitor wouldn't turn on again during the install and so I had no way of knowing if the drivers installed correctly.

[KabukiZero]

Try this:
Restart machine and click F8, A menu should appear with startup options, enter in safe mode and uninstall drivers, restart machine and install 270.51 again. May be resolve your problem because that is a clean install of drivers.

[KabukiZero]

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

Ok I used Driver cleaner to clean out all my older drivers because I had changed over from a GTX 280 to a GTX 580 and the tech guy said I didn't have to reinstall drivers but just in case I did a clean out today. The result is so far I've been able to have a few sessions of about an hours play on Direct X 11 with the 266.58 drivers but I'm deliberately not going out of the city because of the black areas. Anyway the only crashes I had were during cut scenes but none during gameplay so far so cleaning out my drivers may have fixed an incompatibility from my old card's settings. Whatever, DA 2 seems playable now except I have to get newer drivers but last time the 270.51 did not install correctly. During installation of the beta drivers the screen went black but did not return so I had to guess as to when the drivers were installed or not and reboot by hard resetting. I am reluctant to install those divers again as my monitor wouldn't turn on again during the install and so I had no way of knowing if the drivers installed correctly.

Try this:
Restart machine and click F8, A menu should appear with startup options, enter in safe mode and uninstall drivers, restart machine and install 270.51 again. May be resolve your problem because that is a clean install of drivers

[worldcitizen1919]

The next time I buy a game from anyone especially Bioware I'll wait for months to make sure it is playable. Why should I be plagued with all these issues when I have bought a new GTX 580 as well as paid Bioware for their game? This is cheating people when a product is paid for yet we have to wait months for patches and fixes to get it working. I suppose all that matters to Nvidia and Bioware is they got their money. We don't matter after the $$ has rolled in. If we did this game would have been released bug free. It was a money grab and now we have to wait for the product to be fixed but they are most probably putting all their resources into their next release because they've already got our money for this one.

[KabukiZero]

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

Ok I used Driver cleaner to clean out all my older drivers because I had changed over from a GTX 280 to a GTX 580 and the tech guy said I didn't have to reinstall drivers but just in case I did a clean out today. The result is so far I've been able to have a few sessions of about an hours play on Direct X 11 with the 266.58 drivers but I'm deliberately not going out of the city because of the black areas. Anyway the only crashes I had were during cut scenes but none during gameplay so far so cleaning out my drivers may have fixed an incompatibility from my old card's settings. Whatever, DA 2 seems playable now except I have to get newer drivers but last time the 270.51 did not install correctly. During installation of the beta drivers the screen went black but did not return so I had to guess as to when the drivers were installed or not and reboot by hard resetting. I am reluctant to install those divers again as my monitor wouldn't turn on again during the install and so I had no way of knowing if the drivers installed correctly.

PD: Using administrator account and when install 270.51 using run as administrator.

[KabukiZero]

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

The next time I buy a game from anyone especially Bioware I'll wait for months to make sure it is playable. Why should I be plagued with all these issues when I have bought a new GTX 580 as well as paid Bioware for their game? This is cheating people when a product is paid for yet we have to wait months for patches and fixes to get it working. I suppose all that matters to Nvidia and Bioware is they got their money. We don't matter after the $$ has rolled in. If we did this game would have been released bug free. It was a money grab and now we have to wait for the product to be fixed but they are most probably putting all their resources into their next release because they've already got our money for this one.

agree, the quality managers should do their best work ...

[CHaoS_06]

The game freezes/crashes for me now after the 1.02 patch under DX11.
I'm on a GTX560Ti + 270.51beta driver setup.

[worldcitizen1919]

KabukiZero wrote...

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

Ok I used Driver cleaner to clean out all my older drivers because I had changed over from a GTX 280 to a GTX 580 and the tech guy said I didn't have to reinstall drivers but just in case I did a clean out today. The result is so far I've been able to have a few sessions of about an hours play on Direct X 11 with the 266.58 drivers but I'm deliberately not going out of the city because of the black areas. Anyway the only crashes I had were during cut scenes but none during gameplay so far so cleaning out my drivers may have fixed an incompatibility from my old card's settings. Whatever, DA 2 seems playable now except I have to get newer drivers but last time the 270.51 did not install correctly. During installation of the beta drivers the screen went black but did not return so I had to guess as to when the drivers were installed or not and reboot by hard resetting. I am reluctant to install those divers again as my monitor wouldn't turn on again during the install and so I had no way of knowing if the drivers installed correctly.

PD: Using administrator account and when install 270.51 using run as administrator.

I managed to install the drivers in safe mode and the game worked for a few sessions then started to crash again. No problems with any other games. When it crashed the sound was still playing and I noticed CPU and memory was just about 50%. So buggy and temperamental.

[KabukiZero]

worldcitizen1919 wrote...
I managed to install the drivers in safe mode and the game worked for a few sessions then started to crash again. No problems with any other games. When it crashed the sound was still playing and I noticed CPU and memory was just about 50%. So buggy and temperamental.

I understand your frustration but you have to be patient. I had only one crash with  266.70 driver but the effects were similar to yours, the image freezed but kept hearing the sound. Anyway, you can play it with "very high" settings and DX11 functions?.

Its something

Modifié par KabukiZero, 15 avril 2011 - 09:09 .

[urcra]

urcra wrote...

KyiMin wrote...

urcra wrote...

I would think my computer could run DA2 maxed out
Specs:
i7 8-core 3.4 GHZ
Nvedia GeForce GT 420 2GB Vram
8GB Ram

I also noticed that in my taskmaneger it only used 328 RAM and wouldn't go higher then that

I don't think it can. You have an amazing cpu, a &*^# load of ram, however, the game will only take advantage of 4 cores and it's heavily gpu based like most games. You'll have to get a better graphics card than that, and maybe you can invest in the nvidia 500 series and buy something like a gtx 560ti, that cards performs extremely well with any game. 

Thanks

Hi again i just bought a AMd 6950 card and the game runs perfectly smooth maxed out now

[TallBearNC]

worldcitizen1919 wrote...

The next time I buy a game from anyone especially Bioware I'll wait for months to make sure it is playable. Why should I be plagued with all these issues when I have bought a new GTX 580 as well as paid Bioware for their game? This is cheating people when a product is paid for yet we have to wait months for patches and fixes to get it working. I suppose all that matters to Nvidia and Bioware is they got their money. We don't matter after the $$ has rolled in. If we did this game would have been released bug free. It was a money grab and now we have to wait for the product to be fixed but they are most probably putting all their resources into their next release because they've already got our money for this one.

Actually most of the DX11 issues were NOT BW's fault. Most of them were crappy ATI and NVIDIA drivers

Aside from that, I do agree that more testing should have been done, a game shouldn't be release with the sheer ammount of story and play bugs DA2 has had.

Usually what causes this is pressure from investors and a parent company (namely EA who bought BW a while back ago) to get the game out asap because it's running over budget and they won't put any more funding into it. A sure sign of this is a game being released WITH DLC. A game should NEVER be released with DLC available. You should buy the game, and get the whole package, and the DLC should come later. In any case, when pressure is put on to release a game by a certain date, many bugs tend to creep in... This happened with Fable 3.. good god that game was a mess on release

There is an easy, simply way to avoid these bugs... start treating complex games like Microsoft Windows or OS X. Don't pre order them, and don't buy them on release... wait... if it looks like there's few bugs, get it.. If there's a lot, wait for patches. Unfortunately, to get the best "game perks," you usually have to pre order a game

Modifié par TallBearNC, 15 avril 2011 - 10:43 .