90 réponses à ce sujet

[Starbuck5000]

I find anything thats good at killing mages works well. Having Merrill spam a load of stuns works as does the Templar skills Cleanse and Silence, if you have a warrior make sure he has them.

[reddragon567]

My problem with assassins is that they have SO MUCH health.

Enemy warriors can take damage, mages are, well mages, however have low HP to compensate. But assassins are just painful. My 2h warrior couldn't take one down, he could hardly damage them without a combo.

Only stratagy I ever got to work on them was to kill EVERYTHING ELSE, then they can't stealth any more.

[Tekman9]

Just FYI, If youre playing on hard I wouldnt really comment on this. Its MUCH harder on nightmare and the same tactics dont work (like bursting the hunter). I posted this in another thread. Im basically stuck at level 10 in this fight, tried it for hours on end. Dont think its possible for me =(

This is with hawke as a dmg mage, carver, ave, and varric. so no healer. I tried to respec hawke to healer for this fight (which actually did work) but the makers sigh borked my skill points and gave me too many so I reloaded and old save. This fight is dare I say. IMPOSSIBLE. for my group at my level on PS3.

"I turned off the tactics for AE attacks and whirlwind and stuff to make sure I wasnt killing my team. That helped a little. I also backed out to a previous save and bought poisons for everyones weapon (one half crow the other half debilating). I would kite back and forth as soon as the first wave ended, and whenever the hunter would stealth.

I was able to come close a few times to beating it. One time, I had my full party left (with potions remaining) against just the Lieutenant and the Hunter. Lost. Another time I had everyone up but Hawke, against ONLY the hunter and still lost even with kiting him. I mean these situations were always up to luck and happened if Anders managed to hold the aggro of a bunch of the mobs while I was running around downstairs.
"

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Tekman9 wrote...
I was able to come close a few times to beating it. One time, I had my full party left (with potions remaining) against just the Lieutenant and the Hunter. Lost. Another time I had everyone up but Hawke, against ONLY the hunter and still lost even with kiting him. I mean these situations were always up to luck and happened if Anders managed to hold the aggro of a bunch of the mobs while I was running around downstairs.
"

Did you run out by the Chantry main door and make sure all pary members had their backs to the wall? Order them to hold their position so they stay on the wall.

[cyph]

I have a video tutorial on nightmare for this one. Find my instructional video thread.

[PsychoBlonde]

Just some notes:

* hitting them with an area attack even when they're invisible breaks stealth, so when you've got stealthed enemies keep your party together and keep one of the big area-effects going (firestorm, tempest) at all times.

* walking bomb is probably THE most effective damage ability you can get when you have enemies with high health. It does spirit damage (to which resistance only applies for 50% of its value), and it does the *full health total* of the dude who exploded in damage. Get that sucker up on some of the medium-rank mobs with a decent-length health bar, then have your party unload on THAT dude. If you time it right (and it can take some practice because it requires positioning as well as timing--the explode area is not that good), you can knock a HUGE portion of the health off your big nasty semi-boss mobs all in one go, and without actually having to attack the semi-boss itself. Make sure you've got the Virulent and Corrosive upgrades if you go that route, and you can annihilate bosses without ever having to touch them.

[Tekman9]

I ran a freaking marathon around the place. I seriously did everything. My other post has more details ill link it. I didnt have their backs to the wall, but that doesnt really seem like its going to matter anyway. sigh, just when i was ready to give up now im gonna waste another 3 hours doing this tonight haha.

I guess I could try an earlier save and see if Makers Sigh doesnt screw everything up again. But seriously is there any trophy or anything for playing the entire game on nightmare?

I mean i could spend another 5 hours and maybe beat it because Anders holds aggro, I kite like a mofo, essentially just get super lucky and cheese the AI for 25 minutes. Whats the point even? Id rather just whoop their ass on hard and be on with it, especially after wasting my ENTIRE night yesterday.

[Tekman9]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Just some notes:

* hitting them with an area attack even when they're invisible breaks stealth, so when you've got stealthed enemies keep your party together and keep one of the big area-effects going (firestorm, tempest) at all times.

* walking bomb is probably THE most effective damage ability you can get when you have enemies with high health. It does spirit damage (to which resistance only applies for 50% of its value), and it does the *full health total* of the dude who exploded in damage. Get that sucker up on some of the medium-rank mobs with a decent-length health bar, then have your party unload on THAT dude. If you time it right (and it can take some practice because it requires positioning as well as timing--the explode area is not that good), you can knock a HUGE portion of the health off your big nasty semi-boss mobs all in one go, and without actually having to attack the semi-boss itself. Make sure you've got the Virulent and Corrosive upgrades if you go that route, and you can annihilate bosses without ever having to touch them.

i dont think youre playing on nightmare.  Unleasing a firestorm on your party will wipe them in 2 seconds.  Plus I dont think it actually does break stealth, like others are saying.

[Tekman9]

mythkandar wrote...

I have a video tutorial on nightmare for this one. Find my instructional video thread.

was your video when you were at level 5 or 7? or was that some other guys?  I clicked on your video in another thread but it just doesnt apply to me.  I dont have a healing mage.  I won the fight when I spec hawke to healing mage, but makers sigh bugged out and gave me more ability points so i didnt save.  Im level 10 during this fight

[Tekman9]

sorry for the quad posts, heres a link to my thread where i detail my fight/charcters

http://social.biowar...8/index/6544787

[cyph]

My Mage only had heal. I used poison on fenris and aveline as tank but she did not have stonewall which made the fight harder than It should have. I did not use cheese tactics (no running down the stairs) and no deaths. Was that the video?

[Tekman9]

i dont know i didnt watch it for more than a few seconds because someone had heal so it didnt apply to me.

[SuicidalBaby]

Ignore anyone saying putting your back to a wall as a valid defensive tactic vs rogues for your own sake. They will still attack that target if threat dictates.

*And don't bother with the, "It never happened to me." bs.  Its possible either way.  The move is not a backstab, the rogues are simply designed to move to a flanking position nearest your back and then attack.  If the nearest to your back is your face, they will take it.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 15 mars 2011 - 07:59 .

[StingingVelvet]

I posted a thread about it but just to reiterate... if you pause as soon as the asssassin appears and use a knockback ability like rush or scythe it will prevent the backstab from occuring.

[Tekman9]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Ignore anyone saying putting your back to a wall as a valid defensive tactic vs rogues for your own sake. They will still attack that target if threat dictates.

*And don't bother with the, "It never happened to me." bs.  Its possible either way.  The move is not a backstab, the rogues are simply designed to move to a flanking position nearest your back and then attack.  If the nearest to your back is your face, they will take it.

is the damage a lot less though?  I figured they would absolutely still attack

[Fadook]

For those who have done the Secret Rendezvous quest on Nightmare, what level were you? Two assassins in a group just seems unfair (for a level 7 party anyway).

[StingingVelvet]

Fadook wrote...

For those who have done the Secret Rendezvous quest on Nightmare, what level were you? Two assassins in a group just seems unfair (for a level 7 party anyway).

It's one of the two or three hardest chapter one fights, so you should save it for the end of the chapter right before you leave for the deep roads.

[Zan Mura]

Tekman9 wrote...

i dont think youre playing on nightmare.  Unleasing a firestorm on your party will wipe them in 2 seconds.  Plus I dont think it actually does break stealth, like others are saying.

Hmm, just came in here from the game to check if there was any viable tactic against them.

On Nightmare their attack damage exceeds the max hp of all but the warrior / tank classes (with some exceptions like a blood mage with a huge HP pool).[/list]I've played roughly 3/5:ths through on Nightmare now and aside from a few boss fights nothing else in the game really gives trouble. But these assassins are like a die roll every single time. 2/3 times a fight has to be reloaded based on nothing but a lame instagib from a rogue.

• Their target is too random, and unaffected by taunt or regular threat.
• They are incorporeal when stealthed, or at least they teleport somewhere else. I have never *once* seen an AoE break the stealth of an enemy rogue.
• On Nightmare their attack damage exceeds the max hp of all but the warrior / tank classes (with some exceptions like a blood mage with a huge HP pool).

Right now the only reliable way I have of dealing with them is to send my warrior in as the first target, and the first chance I get pick them off with 100% burst damage. They are like the first, second, third and fourth priority on the battlefield. But there are times when my most important abilities are on cooldown or the rogue has time to vanish. All they need is once, and they can effectively force a reload by virtue of their borderline cheatish powers alone.
[*].[*]OMG with the buggy formatting. I can't even edit this right anymore, or delete it. Well I hope you understand what I'm saying seeing as the list starts and ends wherever it pleases and now my text even shifted places.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 15 mars 2011 - 10:18 .

[Fadook]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Fadook wrote...

For those who have done the Secret Rendezvous quest on Nightmare, what level were you? Two assassins in a group just seems unfair (for a level 7 party anyway).

It's one of the two or three hardest chapter one fights, so you should save it for the end of the chapter right before you leave for the deep roads.

Thanks. I have a tendency to get very stubborn . Will come back to it later.

[fallen_valkyrie]

if your playing a rogue just get assassinate/brittle combo (you'll do more then 1k late game ) and your good...oh and you can get the spell shield, forgot what tree it is in you pop it on someone that has a lot of threat and their damage is 0 when they backstab you....if your not playing main get the prince or dwarf in your party for brittle combo

[SuicidalBaby]

Tekman9 wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...
Ignore anyone saying putting your back to a wall as a valid defensive tactic vs rogues for your own sake. They will still attack that target if threat dictates.

*And don't bother with the, "It never happened to me." bs.  Its possible either way.  The move is not a backstab, the rogues are simply designed to move to a flanking position nearest your back and then attack.  If the nearest to your back is your face, they will take it.

is the damage a lot less though?  I figured they would absolutely still attack

Removes the flanking bonus to damage yes.  They still critical coming out of stealth.

fallen_valkyrie wrote...

if your playing a rogue just get
assassinate/brittle combo (you'll do more then 1k late game ) and your
good...oh and you can get the spell shield, forgot what tree it is in
you pop it on someone that has a lot of threat and their damage is 0
when they backstab you....if your not playing main get the prince or
dwarf in your party for brittle combo

The priority issue is early to mid game with these rogues, late game there are several ways to dispose of them with massive attributes and all the skills availible.  That is not the point of this thread.
----------------------

I am doing my 2nd run through, mage again.  I have horror, wintersgrasp, CoC, Chain Lightning, heal.  I have yet to die to any one rogue simply by moving my people around and leaving only the dog and my tank, who will use Stonewall a few seconds after stealth.  I heal as soon as he strikes the tank, lock down with horror, Lightning, a well positioned wintersgrasp so no one is behind him for splash dmg and Varric's pinning shot.  Taunt with Aveline and Carver goes to town with pummel, mighty blow, and a tricky whirlwind.  (if Carver is near Aveline when she stonewalls and the rogue takes the bait I will WW right then.)

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 15 mars 2011 - 11:06 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Zan Mura wrote...


Hmm, just came in here from the game to check if there was any viable tactic against them.

You can place all party members with their backs to the wall, if that is feasable. If not, run or 7 or 8 seconds. Pause, look back, see what things look like. If you don't see him, run a few more seconds, and look back.

When you see him, you have two choices. Try to take out the weaker mobs quickly or try to take out hm quickly. Either way, you will want to stun him. If their are lots of enemies you may have to take them out first if you can't do enough damage to take out the assassin quickly. But remember to keep him stunned and try to start running before he comes out of stun. The run and gun strategy can string out mobs, making it easier to focus your fire and take them down quicker.

[SuicidalBaby]

You can place all party members with their backs to the wall, if that is feasable.

Stop giving bad advice.  You are wrong.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 15 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[Zan Mura]

Oh and correction. Typical that I've played Nightmare for days and only now discover this BUT(!) some AoE's do actually force them out of hiding. Most AoE's and effects I've used seem to do nothing at all, possibly because they would be resistant / immune to them anyway even without stealth. But for example AoE 2h combos (Whirlwind for instance) can force them out. Cone of Cold works too, occasionally.
Anyway I'm aware of the cheap Benny Hill tactics, but I've no interest in doing that. I want to keep the combat fluent and cinematic.

fallen_valkyrie wrote...

if your playing a rogue just get assassinate/brittle combo (you'll do more then 1k late game ) and your good...oh and you can get the spell shield, forgot what tree it is in you pop it on someone that has a lot of threat and their damage is 0 when they backstab you....if your not playing main get the prince or dwarf in your party for brittle combo

Trust me you can do loads better than this. Brittle doesn't seem to be reliable anyway, as I don't like percentage things, I want a guaranteed effect that I can rely on every single time. The combat system is rather deep in this and I believe there are literally dozens of viable tactics to cause damage.

In my case while my build allows for a lot of things, my typical anti-boss favorite is using Fenris's Cleave or Aveline's Shield Bash to produce STAGGERED while preparing with my main rogue by activating Pinpoint Strikes, then go in with Vendetta + start chalking up regular combos. I'm only lvl 16 atm and Vendetta used like this can do up to 3200:ish damage on a single hit. In case the mob is a boss and doesn't die to that, the regular combos with Pinpoint crit effect combined with another STAGGER + Explosive Strike will produce another 2 x 2500 dmg on top of that. If there's a risk of them interrupting the combo, I can just Petrify them with my mage after Vendetta. After which the CD on Shield Bash has come off so I can continue that yet again with STAGGER + Crushing Prison for even more stun duration. Naturally an upgraded Assassination and all the crits inbetween add up too. Needless to say, that's pure murder and most of the time complete overkill.

And this is basically the first build I stumbled into, I have no doubt there are people there with *way* more powerful builds than this one. I don't even understand all the mechanics myself yet, so there's bound to be a lot more room for improvement.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 16 mars 2011 - 12:10 .