274 réponses à ce sujet

[bukowski616]

On nightmare difficulty on 360 from first playthrough (I'm a DA:O veteran 6-7 playthroughs), wrong party members reading this thread. Got 2 warriors (Aveline/Carver), Varric and my Hawke is a mage. I'm pretty powerful and absolutely murdered the deep roads, had to check it was actually on nightmare setting it was so easy (practically walked through with no tactical pausing apart from the dragon and even then wasn't really necessary. Just knew something big and bad was waiting for me, just didn't expect it to be so ridiculously hard.

Up to this point the hardest battle was in High Town 'Night Lies' against the Shallow Guard (pretender guards), thought I'd never do this, but got the tactics right eventually. This wraith fight is just insane and have only gotten wraith health down to 75% but soon get wasted straight after.
Really don't want to drop down difficulty as had the game licked up to now, but cannot see myself persevering with this forever and a day. Has really got me stumped.
Any ideas for this type of party line-up considering I have practically no upgraded talents/spells that have been mentioned in this thread?

Plus point I can revive all party members with no injuries (provided I can keep Hawke alive). My staff causes the most damage at 70 per hit (spirit damage).
Also I notice that when wraith goes nuclear the columns are charged and refresh all party members health accept Hawke (why???). This does go away eventually, assume it comes back after next time he goes nuclear (don't think I ever made it that far).
Not happy, but determined not switch down to hard. Am convinced it's not possible with my party line-up and character build.  Not looking to playthrough again, but if I do Hawkes gonna be a rogue (warriors are tedious) and maybe I'll stand a better chance.
I swear this game is so much harder than DA:O and was enjoying that aspect up until this point. Mind you perhaps DA:O nightmare difficulty wasn't hard enough...although it was tough enough for me, but I do like the more tactical aspect of DA2 (it's saving grace in my opinion).

Had the same problem with 3-4 fights in ME2 on nightmare difficulty and in the end was convinced I'd chosen wrong class for Shepard and dropped down the difficulty (reluctantly) each time it got too tough (kinda ruined my game). By the end of the game I had grown tired of just how hard a few battles were and was hoping Bioware hadn't made the same mistake. Ho-hum...

Basically it should not matter which party members you choose (provided you have a healer) and what talents you have it should be possible in all permutations (providing you've not really screwed up your attribute points distribution, which I haven't). Not looking to wade through deep roads again just to try different party line-up which probably won't work.
 
 getting bored now...if I switch down difficulty the game is dead for me. Rock and hard place...

[Wissenschaft]

Ranged characters are basically required to beat the Rock Wraith, if you've got more than 1 melee character.......good luck, your chances of victory are not great.

The Party I used was, Me (2h warrior focused on burst damage with Sacrifical Frenzy + Cleave + Ice Rune and Lighting Wards), Merrill respec with Spirit + Ice Spells + Elemental weapon, Anders focused on healing, Heroic Aura, + Ice spells, and Varric focused on speedy attacks + had an Ice Rune + Lighting Ward.

It was about a 20 min battle.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 23 mars 2011 - 10:49 .

[bukowski616]

4th attempt (1st today). Done and dusted. Not as tough as I feared! Game on!

[bukowski616]

Basically a lot of running around in same pattern involved. Ability to revive party member without injuries crucial to success and the mabari helps big time! Varric and Hawke (mage) as only ranged charcaters works no problem. Nearly got screwed a few times but just about got health restored in time. Great battle! I think my experiences with ME2 had me defeated before I had tried this again (nightmare on ME2 for collector battles (first time on collector ship) was just too hard).

Happy again!!! Loving the difficulty in DA2 (despite my reservations for this battle!).

Tooks about 15-20 minutes. Man you get 10,000 xp for this. I'm ready for anything now. Bring on the high dragon (trashed the one DA:O with 3 mages and one rouge in super quick time).

It's not DA:O, but it's definitely not as bad as some make out. I've done 70 odd hours and only just at this stage of the game...slow burn and very careful with my character build...100% on all quests so far. I'm not dropping the difficulty for any boss, no sir.

Anyone else out there struggling with this boss keep perservering...tactics is all you need!

Keep on running and keep your mage alive. Provided you keep hitting him with your staff (Stone's Breath you get from Sandal is the key - plus 70-80 spirit damage each hit) from range (be careful for the staff thump on the floor after the 3rd or 4th shot from your staff - this can lead to death as the wraith can catch you up as you go through this motion as it delays your movement) the rest should take care of itself (keep summoning the mabari as well).

Good luck.

[Tarion Besbald]

Ancient Rock Wraith (Nightmare) - Kill & HowTo with Commentary, 1080p resolution!

Modifié par Tarion Besbald, 24 mars 2011 - 12:10 .

[bukowski616]

FYI - when your parties members start getting health refreshed from the charged columns - after Wraith goes nuclear (notice they glow red and health potions have red cloud when consumed) - leave them to their own devices (revive them as necessary) and concentrate on keeping your mage alive (hawke in my case - not sure if the health refresh only applies to non-Hawke party members or just not to mages in general). As I said previously it will take care of itself, do not be tempted to engage with Wraith from distance for too long (you will die). Don't forget the mabari, he'll help you big time.

I did this in real time on nightmare only pausing at crucial moments to ensure mages (hawke in my case) survival and to take out the profane enemies after wraith goes nuclear (3x).
When you know what to do I'd say that the 'Night Lies' (pretender guards) side quest is a lot tougher on nightmare up to this point.

Anyone else in agreement?

That was one tough tactical battle. On reflection a much harder, longer battle. Took me about 30-40 minutes (1 mage, 3 warriors and lots of elfroot/restoration potions, not to mention poisons and bombs). As is the way with these things the side quests are where the hardcore players will find the real challenges (that's why they are there! The revenant in the hovel in denerim DA:O a case in point - creamed him eventually, very satisfying indeed).

I've got to say I'm slowly coming around to DA:2 and although it lacks the obvious charm and OCD element (in terms of customising your companions armour (and equiping 2nd'ary weaonary - which they benefited the bonuses from even despite not being armed with them as primary weapons) and making them super powerful - of course knowing how not waste coin is helpful if you want the expensive, albeit, seemingly out of reach items in shops) so prominent in DA:O, the tactical upgrade in difficulty is more than making up for this in my mind and the story is getting good now. 70 plus hours and only just arrived in act II. I must be making hardwork of it!!!

This said I still managed to raise enough coin prior to the deep roads to buy some super good items. Enchanted Silverite Chain Belt (+1 all attributes, +11 defense, 3% magic resistance), Magister's Scythe (ignores enemy armour , 5% chance to knock enemy back) etc, etc. Seemingly small advantages in name can make for big ones on the battle field.

Thanks Bioware, after ME2 my faith is restored. Controversial, but that game is just a jumped up shooter with dialogue options. A good game, but us OCD people need MORE customisation and choice.
We are, afterall, your loyal hardcore customers...xxx

Yours faithfully.

Henry C.

Modifié par bukowski616, 24 mars 2011 - 01:14 .

[tetracycloide]

Reading this thread has left me of the belief that Hawk as a warrior is absurdly imbalanced relative to other class and build combinations. It would be nice if the thread wasn't cluttered with various players insisting the fight was easy because their two-hander walking tank or sword and board walking tank practically soloed it. That goes double for warrior main characters with Anders healing. Like you need a strategy to beat it with that party and build combination...

Why don't we leave the thread for players attempting to do this fight with other combinations since there the ones that are actually going to struggle with it.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 24 mars 2011 - 02:47 .

[KiLLLLeR150]

I tried this fight 4 times on Hard but couldn't get past the 2nd chaingun animation.
Ended up dropping down to Normal which was waaay too easy. Enormous jump in difficulty from Normal to Hard.

I probably had a horrendous group. Fenris, Varric, Marill (Almost full Primal) and Hawke (Sword and Shield). Fenris was just utter crap. Seems the way to go is 3 ranged and 1 melee.

[Wissenschaft]

tetracycloide wrote...

Reading this thread has left me of the belief that Hawk as a warrior is absurdly imbalanced relative to other class and build combinations. It would be nice if the thread wasn't cluttered with various players insisting the fight was easy because their two-hander walking tank or sword and board walking tank practically soloed it. That goes double for warrior main characters with Anders healing. Like you need a strategy to beat it with that party and build combination...

Why don't we leave the thread for players attempting to do this fight with other combinations since there the ones that are actually going to struggle with it.

I actually don't think my 2h warrior did much during the fight. It was my other 3 companions constant firepower that evenually witherdown the Rock Wraith and ultimately won me the fight.

In fact, Fernis is good choice if your not playing a 2h warrior yourself.

Simply put, this game is designed so that in some fights your going to want a specific party. The Deep Roads mission is short enough that its not much of a pain to run through it again to fight the rock wraith with a different party.

But if people insist on fighting the rock wraith with a melee heavy party.........thats like insisting on fighting the high dragon in Origins with a melee heavy party. All I can say is I hope you enjoy pain. 

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 24 mars 2011 - 05:45 .

[Isifel]

tetracycloide wrote...

Reading this thread has left me of the belief that Hawk as a warrior is absurdly imbalanced relative to other class and build combinations.

The only thing my Warrior Hawke was good for in this fight was using his larger health pool to soak the lightning attacks in p1. After p1 he only ever engaged the Wraith during the burn phases, it was the ranged characters doing all the work.

[Atriusi]

This is probably the worst designed boss encounter I've seen in any Dragon Age game. While the mechanics sound fine on paper, in the game it is incredibly tedious. The style of the gameplay does not make this encounter fun. It makes it more work than fun.

First, you pretty much have to kite if you did not bring Anders and spec him for healing. Which is disappointing since you are crippled to two characters entering the mines anyway. The mechanic of hiding is fine, but you cannot tank this boss without sufficient healing. No mage can do it but Anders, assuming hard or nightmare.

Second, group composition is 90% of this encounter. A melee rogue Hawke is worth less than nothing. Hopefully you brought a bow,  because you won't find one in the mines and you can't have one equipped as an alt weapon (remember having a second weapon is too complex for DA2). A warrior Hawke is going to have the same problem only he'll survive a bit longer from the electricity attacks.

Third, the time spent in combat is way out of the average for DA encounters. I would say I spent more time killing this thing than the final boss of DA1. The primary difference was that this encounter was not fun. There was not anything to keep track of except line of sight and pausing.

There are ways to do this encounter and make it easy, but you have to plan for it before you ever enter the mines. I can forgive them for that. Hard encounters are great. Learning from your mistakes for a replay are great.

The primary problem with this encounter for me is there is no fun factor.

[Corto81]

I had DW Rogue, Aveline, Varric and Anders.

I had two options:
- respec the DW Rogue to Archer and have him do decent constant damage
- leave him as DW Rogue, have him do very little ranged DPS, then Assassinate/TF the adds, buy yourself more time to spank on the RW while it's in "slumber", pop poinpoint strikes and Haste and basically concentrate your DPS around those times

During the fight, the tank kites the RW around the pillars (yes, cheesy), the other 3 stand on the opposite end of the room, near a pillar and range it.

(on my warrior playthrough, I just tanked it with a 2H DPS warrior without any points into tanking skills, simply because available gear and only one companion armor slot makes a PC tank vastly superior to Aveline/Fenris/Carver)

The most annoying part:
- Even with everyone on Hold, the retarded AI had my party run from behind the pillars into the laser field commiting suicide. You honestly have to pause-unpause and keep giving orders to the toons every second when the laser field is active.

[Graunt]

Atriusi wrote...
First, you pretty much have to kite if you did not bring Anders and spec him for healing. Which is disappointing since you are crippled to two characters entering the mines anyway. The mechanic of hiding is fine, but you cannot tank this boss without sufficient healing. No mage can do it but Anders, assuming hard or nightmare.

You don't need anything more than the 80% heal -- on Nightmare, but if you are also playing a Hawke Mage and your "end game" build has at least the 40% heal, it will make the fight much easier.  For me, the most tedious thing was having to constantly pause because of how bad the pathing is with the companion AI.  I have no idea how people in videos can click to an area on the ground and their group runs right to it flawlessly every time...at least one person in my group will always run around a pillar or directly into the boss to get to where I wanted them to go unless I keep pausing and correct them every single time.

[Tarion Besbald]

Try hold position (H).

[Corto81]

Tarion Besbald wrote...

Try hold position (H).

Didn't work for me. Toons were still running into the laser fielf, I had to manually click them to a spot behind the pillar about once every second or two.

[homeydontplaydat]

Atriusi wrote...

This is probably the worst designed boss encounter I've seen in any Dragon Age game. While the mechanics sound fine on paper, in the game it is incredibly tedious. The style of the gameplay does not make this encounter fun. It makes it more work than fun.

Atriusi, I agree with everything you said.  It is boring and tedius.  And the spanking and kiting with my 2hander got old in the first 5 minutes. What was Bioware thinking making bosses this ****g long? I wanted to nod off during the High Dragon too. Love the Dragons in DAO though, but they died before I had time to get bored. Challenging and fun does not have to mean 'lengthy'.  If I wanted to deal with long and tedius I'd go back to playing WoW.

[Tarion Besbald]

Well, apparently that is what they wanted to do with more "action-oriented gameplay". Sadly, it's rather tedious dodge-autoattack spamming than anything else.

[Gaidren]

Yeah, this fight was not good times. Did it on the 2nd attempt on Nightmare, *barely*.

[bukowski616]

Atriusi wrote...
No mage can do it but Anders, assuming hard or nightmare.

 
Not true my line-up was Aveline/Carver/Varric/Hawke (mage) - anyone with Hawke as mage (naturally with spirit healer specialization to match Anders abilities) can do this as per my recent post, in fact I'm pretty confident that any combination of party members will work provided you have a healer who can revive party with no injuries (recycled post with additions follows):

I did this in real time on nightmare only pausing at crucial moments to ensure my mage’s (Hawke in my case) survival (and to revive dead party members) and to take out the profane enemies after wraith goes nuclear (3x). It was easy enough in the end, but not to say I didn't nearly get Hawke slain on 2-3 occasions during the fight.

Basically as soon as your parties members start getting health refreshed from the charged columns (so you need to survive the initial bit of the fight up to first nuclear blast from Wraith - which is easy enough if you concentrate on survival only) - after Wraith goes nuclear (notice the columns glow red and health potions have red cloud when consumed) - leave them to their own devices (revive them as necessary - do not micro-manage them or attempt to control them in anyway, other than to revive or give them health) and concentrate on keeping your mage alive (not sure if the health refresh only applies to non-Hawke party members or just not to mages in general). The fight will take care of itself, do not be tempted to engage with Wraith from distance for too long (you will die). Don't forget the Mabari, he'll help you big time so keep summoning him as well.

Keep on running and keep your mage alive. Provided you keep hitting him with your staff from range (Stone's Breath you get from Sandal is the key - plus 70-80 spirit damage each hit, just be careful for the staff thump on the floor after the 3rd or 4th shot from your staff - this can lead to death as when you go through this motion it delays your movement and the wraith can catch you up) and your mage avoids the Wraith’s various attacks the rest should take care of itself.

It takes no more than 15-20 minutes and was not as much of un-enjoyable hard slog as it sounded. I got a great kick out of it, especially the 10,000xp+ you get from the kill, not to mention all the great items and coin you get afterwards.  Cannot wait to start Act II when I get in tonight!

So anyone who has a line-up with Hawke as a mage (with Spirit healer specialization, ability to revive with no injuries and presumably no other mages) this definitely works a treat, just not sure if the health recharge from the columns is mage or Hawke specific (i.e. it does not recharge Hawke or other mages health). I assume it is mage specific.

Basically the health recharge is the Wraith’s downfall when he goes nuclear as it’s given you the tools to defeat him relatively easily. It’s not a glitch, it’s deliberate I‘m sure. Maybe Bioware can confirm this for us (?).

I cannot comment on other party line-ups, but I'll find out on 2nd playthrough with Hawke as rogue (bearing in mind the mage strategy for the Wraith I may even just go melee with my Hawke Rogue – much more fun in my opinion).

With this in mind I believe that the 'Night Lies' (pretender guards) side quest is a lot tougher on nightmare up to this point.


That was one tough tactical battle. On reflection a much harder, longer battle. Took me about 30-40 minutes (1 mage, 3 warriors and lots of elfroot/restoration potions, not to mention poisons and bombs).

Anyone else out there in agreement? (perhaps I need to start a new thread as am keen hear what you all think of this sidequest on nightmare)

[Isifel]

I don't think healing is the key to this battle, at least if you micro-manage movement well enough.

Once I avoided getting my ass handed to my by the ASWs golf swings in phase 2 I didn't actually need any healing at all, I could have done it on pots alone.

I suppose it comes down to how you play the fight but excessive healing is far from a necessity, though it obviously can't hurt.

[EzFlyer]

isifel: GJ!! yea the dog rules

Graunt wrote...

Atriusi wrote...
First, you pretty much have to kite if you did not bring Anders and spec him for healing. Which is disappointing since you are crippled to two characters entering the mines anyway. The mechanic of hiding is fine, but you cannot tank this boss without sufficient healing. No mage can do it but Anders, assuming hard or nightmare.

You don't need anything more than the 80% heal -- on Nightmare, but if you are also playing a Hawke Mage and your "end game" build has at least the 40% heal, it will make the fight much easier.  For me, the most tedious thing was having to constantly pause because of how bad the pathing is with the companion AI.  I have no idea how people in videos can click to an area on the ground and their group runs right to it flawlessly every time...at least one person in my group will always run around a pillar or directly into the boss to get to where I wanted them to go unless I keep pausing and correct them every single time.

dude me too on that, it's cause you spread them out to opposite corners and they want to stay in range of your "controlled" character, i had to constantly pause/repause there, too, or they'd go out and get hit by the explosion

[bukowski616]

Isifel wrote...

I don't think healing is the key to this battle, at least if you micro-manage movement well enough.

Once I avoided getting my ass handed to my by the ASWs golf swings in phase 2 I didn't actually need any healing at all, I could have done it on pots alone.

I suppose it comes down to how you play the fight but excessive healing is far from a necessity, though it obviously can't hurt.

Fair point, but with my party and talents this was the only option I had and you only really need to heal your mage and revive other party members as and when necessary (only time you need to pause) otherwise you can just run around avoiding the Wraith and fire off random shots at him using Stone's Breath (did it in real time on nightmare difficulty in 15-20 minutes, it works a treat). This boss doesn't need much of a strategy you can just leave your other party members doing their own thing and run around like a big fairy avoiding the Wraith. It's actually a bit too easy once you work this out and not that challenging, still I enjoyed kicking it's @ss and getting big XP (I was buzzing afterwards).

Anyway cannot wait to kick the High Dragon's butt. Got my strategy for Dragons licked.

Anyway I really want to hear other people's opinions on 'Night Lies' (pretender guards) sidequest on nightmare. The toughest battle up to and including the Wraith in my humble opinion. Will start a new thread.

[PPR223]

Did this a second time on nightmare with an Archer. Rest of group was Aveline, Varric and Merril. It seems to be easier when you don't have more than one melee combatant in your group.

Only time I paused during this playthrough, was to give Aveline, Varric and Merril orders to run behind a pillar. I also did to put them on hold, but you have no choice for that on Xbox360.

Have Aveline on upgraded immovable and upgraded shield wall, she doesn't seem to lose much life, even on nightmare. On her tactic I only had the activate shield wall, activate immovable and taunt active. This prevents the Wraith from leaving Aveline, except for rolling and that disappear and reappear. Aveline was set on attack Hawkes target also.

Merrill was set with cold, I think it was, as they have strong resistance against lightning and rock, I think it was. I had her tactics set to attack Hawkes target, and turned off all area of effect abilities.

Varric I had set to attack Hawkes target, with all area of effect attacks switched off also.

The only time I paused was when ordering the companions away from the wraith, apart from Aveline ofcourse. Keep them far enough away, or behind an adjacent pillar, and the vaccum has no effect against your companions.

The extra's, after the red light thing, are no difficulty to get rid of. Make sure you kill them before the ancient wraith gets up though, which is why I have all companions set to attack Hawkes target.

Health potions are enough to keep Aveline alive, if you do these tactics. If it comes to it you can always kite, but I didn't need to do this once.

[MouseGirl]

I can not stress enough how important it is to have rune of lightning warding on as many people as possible.

Varric, for example, with just 1 Rune of Lightning Warding on his armor gets 90% resistance to lightning. Even on Nightmare mode he can easily tank the ranged electrical attacks and survive the lightning sphere out of cover with minimal damage. It also makes the Profane lightning attacks laughable, they don't even stun. I was having Varric solo whole rooms of them on the way too the Ancient Rock Wraith.

Stonewall was aslo really useful since with it Aveline could stop it's rolling attack cold and take no damage.  Avaline with 2 lightning wards on her shield and the Stonewall skill is pretty much invisible in this fight, even on Nightmare.

Modifié par MouseGirl, 25 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[bukowski616]

On reflection constantly running away a big fairy is the easy way out (but still a valid tactic, so its fair game in my mind). Nevertheless it worked for me and I always take the easiest and most pragmatic route wherever possible (and the fact I could see no other option with my party build). Next playthrough I'll ensure that I have more of a ranged party and will try to do this in the more authentic manner described in this thread, one which isn't exploiting the AI limitations so mercilessly, but I'll probably end up doing the fairy thing again (it was a tad too easy in the end, despite my mages several near death experiences during this battle - got the blood pumping anyways).

That's what I love about the DA series it's versatility and DA2 seems to be a lot harder tactically than DA:O (I found Nightmare too easy in the end, but that was after 3 playthroughs on 1 on normal, 2 on hard, so not a surprise really (super tough to begin with though) - knew the game inside out by then). No doubt I'll find my next playthrough on DA2 that little bit easier. Hawke as Rogue is going to be a lot of fun as well...just cannot decide whether to go ranged or melee.