84 réponses à ce sujet

[Unbroken Lineage]

Never played an RPG with a party before?

[LethalBlade]

I have been playing CRPGs for 25 years, and this game is most certainly an RPG, one of the best I've played, actually.

And if you think terms like 'tank', 'dps', 'aoe', etc, started with MMOs, then you need to get yourself a clue.

Modifié par LethalBlade, 15 novembre 2009 - 10:40 .

[Edner132435]

Alright, well first of all, everything you described loving about RPGs is in DA. So all those other games are not RPGs by your same logic then, eh? Second of all, comparing it to an mmo because there are health/mana potions and monsters "mobs" (who gives a ****ing **** what they are called?), is ridiculous. You don't have to have the exact perfect set up of skills/characters to win. Sure, you need to use the party members you have wisely and activate the skills/spells taht make sense for that encounter, and position them correctly to handle whatever mobs you are fighting, but that's called strategy guy. Maybe you were wishing this would be a point/click/kill mmo? I don't get it dude.

[Sereaph502]

Pradeep Sanders wrote...


I don't want to be forced to tackle an encounter with a dragon by requiring specific characters in my party, positioning that party just so, taking advantage of one or two particular magic spells' effects that the AI doesn't handle well, running in circles to allow abilities to recharge, mashing on health or mana potions at exactly the right time to keep the fight going, and pausing constantly to try and guess when I can tell a character to do the next action without losing an action.

Then how do you beat a dragon in BG1/2?  Run in and beat on it, and if that doesn't work, reload a million times?

Nah, I bet you do exactly the same thing you're complaining about: tactics, setting everyone up just right, etc.

Pointless argument.  You expecting BG3 is your fault alone, not Dragon Age's.

[HighlandBerserkr]

Pradeep Sanders wrote...

I've played Bioware games for many years, from BG1 on up. I play them for the story, the characters and relationships, and the richness and depth of the world they create. Finding little items linked to the main story, doing character side quests, going through all the conversations with your party to learn about their pasts. I enjoy the writing and the story, I like actively following the story in a game rather than reading it or watching it as a movie.

In other words, I liked those games because they were role-playing games.

The writing for Dragon Age looks to be fantastic. The characters are interesting, and the history of the world is unique and rich. There are areas to be explored off the main quest, and relationships to develop with everyone (and every dog) in your party. This game has every hallmark of a good RPG.

Unfortunately, the freedom of choice in how you play this game has been taken away. The combat encounters require specific party choices and tactics that limit how you follow the story. Just look at the other posts on the forums and count how often you read about 'tanks' and 'DPS' and 'AoE' and 'pots' and 'spam' and 'kiting' and a dozen other terms taken from plotless MMORPG games that require countless hours of grinding against infinite monsters ('mobs') before you are rewarded with a level, minor improvement in your abilities, and maybe a piece or two of equipment that you're more likely to sell than use. These tactics should not be required simply to make it through an RPG!

I don't want to be forced to tackle an encounter with a dragon by requiring specific characters in my party, positioning that party just so, taking advantage of one or two particular magic spells' effects that the AI doesn't handle well, running in circles to allow abilities to recharge, mashing on health or mana potions at exactly the right time to keep the fight going, and pausing constantly to try and guess when I can tell a character to do the next action without losing an action.

I don't mind if some players want to min/max their way to beating the game at the lowest possible level or in the fastest time. Those same players usually care nothing for the non-essential character dialog or side-quests. I'm incredibly disappointed that I am required to the same thing just to move through the story. It sometimes prevents me from taking the characters I would like, from equipping the weapons, armor, or items I would like, from choosing the spells or specializations I would like.

I'm sure some will respond to this by accusing me of just being bad at the game, or telling me to reduce the difficulty (I'm on Normal). I've played plenty of games and I don't think I'm at all bad, but that is beside the point. The 'normal' experience for the game should be one that makes it accessible to the widest audience while still providing some challenge for the satisfactory overcoming of an obstacle. Those people who want a cakewalk can choose Easy, those who want a difficult challenge can choose Hard - or Nightmare.

Bioware ruined this potentially great game with their decision to make it so difficult to merely survive the progression of the story, and Dragon Age does not deserve to be called an RPG in the true meaning of the genre until and unless a radical change is made to the way combat is handled.

-Pradeep

YOu suad the most important thing in an RPG to you is story, characters ect, and you say Dragon age has this all in spades, so you should love it then:P

Story, Characters, Music, thos are the most important things in an RPG for me, i could care less if the gameplay sucked balls! but Dragon Age doesn't, i may be old and getting up there in age (30) but i am not the greatest game player in the world and i am not really ahveingm uch difficulty with the game, a few battles sure, but not much, try it on easy when things get tough, its a cake walk.

[HighlandBerserkr]

Ok i just read the thread a little more and you once again repeated saying Story is the most important part of an RPG for you and you could care less if there was even a combat system....so whats your problem then? you said it yourself that DA has a great story and characters in an immersive world? i am confused:P

[stevej713]

If Dragon Age doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, then no game does.

[dragoaskani]

Oh noes the game actually requires a small balance in your party combatants (very small mind you I can take 3 mages and a rogue and beat the game easily...with Wynn tanking even.) I guess you are one of those players who doesn't have the capacity to pause the game and issue orders tactically. You know hit the space bar, issue some orders, let them be carried out, repeat. The game is trivial if you use tactical planning. I really hope they increase the difficulty of nightmare myself. Its not as hard as I would envision a Nightmare mode.



So op, how bad you gonna cry when you take it off easy and have to worry about friendly fire too?

[imkaoo]

with all these DLCs it's surely RPG



role PAYING game

[Ezohiguma]

I don't see how mages are "required".



For certain situations, like in Redcliffe, you can get a mage to solve the issue with the demon boy differently. But "required"? Na. BTW; I killed the kid in my second playthrough.



Friendly fire can be annoying. Morrigan, when not paying attention to her, has managed to freeze my party several times.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Sam Starkweather wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Pradeep Sanders wrote...

I've played Bioware games for many years, from BG1 on up. I play them for the story, the characters and relationships, and the richness and depth of the world they create. Finding little items linked to the main story, doing character side quests, going through all the conversations with your party to learn about their pasts. I enjoy the writing and the story, I like actively following the story in a game rather than reading it or watching it as a movie.

In other words, I liked those games because they were role-playing games.

The writing for Dragon Age looks to be fantastic. The characters are interesting, and the history of the world is unique and rich. There are areas to be explored off the main quest, and relationships to develop with everyone (and every dog) in your party. This game has every hallmark of a good RPG.

Unfortunately, the freedom of choice in how you play this game has been taken away. The combat encounters require specific party choices and tactics that limit how you follow the story. Just look at the other posts on the forums and count how often you read about 'tanks' and 'DPS' and 'AoE' and 'pots' and 'spam' and 'kiting' and a dozen other terms taken from plotless MMORPG games that require countless hours of grinding against infinite monsters ('mobs') before you are rewarded with a level, minor improvement in your abilities, and maybe a piece or two of equipment that you're more likely to sell than use. These tactics should not be required simply to make it through an RPG!

I don't want to be forced to tackle an encounter with a dragon by requiring specific characters in my party, positioning that party just so, taking advantage of one or two particular magic spells' effects that the AI doesn't handle well, running in circles to allow abilities to recharge, mashing on health or mana potions at exactly the right time to keep the fight going, and pausing constantly to try and guess when I can tell a character to do the next action without losing an action.

I don't mind if some players want to min/max their way to beating the game at the lowest possible level or in the fastest time. Those same players usually care nothing for the non-essential character dialog or side-quests. I'm incredibly disappointed that I am required to the same thing just to move through the story. It sometimes prevents me from taking the characters I would like, from equipping the weapons, armor, or items I would like, from choosing the spells or specializations I would like.

I'm sure some will respond to this by accusing me of just being bad at the game, or telling me to reduce the difficulty (I'm on Normal). I've played plenty of games and I don't think I'm at all bad, but that is beside the point. The 'normal' experience for the game should be one that makes it accessible to the widest audience while still providing some challenge for the satisfactory overcoming of an obstacle. Those people who want a cakewalk can choose Easy, those who want a difficult challenge can choose Hard - or Nightmare.

Bioware ruined this potentially great game with their decision to make it so difficult to merely survive the progression of the story, and Dragon Age does not deserve to be called an RPG in the true meaning of the genre until and unless a radical change is made to the way combat is handled.

-Pradeep

Name 1 rpg tha doesnt require a specific party setup.

And 2 mindlessly killing baddies makes for a boring game play.

Fable 2
Fable 1
Fallout 3
Dark Messiah
Mass Effect 1

To name a few.

Last I checked Fable/Fallout/Dark Messiah didn't have party members.  And the reason it didn't matter in mass effect was because they all were functionally the same give or take an ability or two.  

[Suron]

Pradeep Sanders wrote...

Removing my choice of tactics, companions, skill advancement, or equipment makes this not deserving of being called an RPG.

I'm not complaining about the hard combat. I just think it should be optional if the game is truly an RPG. My memories of Mass Effect, NWN2, Jade Empire, KOTOR, and the rest of Bioware's games are of the characters and the story, NOT of the combat.

My memories of Dragon Age so far are some good dialog and cutscenes, and many hours spent staring at the 'PAUSED' banner trying to figure out how to stay alive. Without resorting to cheap maneuvers that take advantage of weak AI programming or bad pathing or the like.

-Pradeep

lol...whatever man

my first playthrough..was on normal I admit..but I rolled with my warrior sword/shield (which is what I always make my character when given the choice..) Leliana as ranged with bows...Alistaire switched to 2h and morrigan without a single heal..and did just fine.

other characters I used I spec'd how I wanted..not necessarily following the "auto-level" skills given to them.

I didn't get Wynne till my last area..and then only used her in the tower..

I beat the game, on normal, with my own choices..swapping characters when I felt like it..and did JUST FINE

either you suck..aren't trying hard enough..or are just trolling.

Either way my own playthrough totally debunks all your "reasons" for claiming this RPG called Dragon Age supposedly isn't one..

next.

[Ingrimm22]

Most pointless and wrong posting i have read in a long time. If DA doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, NOTHING does. If you don't like fighting, I'd recommend reading a book instead.

Modifié par Ingrimm22, 15 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .

[FatedHeart]

Cant be arsed to read the above so if this is already mentioned thennn ignore.



But surely there is a specific difference between an RPG and what you are describing in your OP. Just because something requires stratagey and for you to use somewhat synergy between certain class types (tanks dps heals ect ect) WHICH by the way was not ripped from MMO's but rather old table top D&D ect style games. That does not mean it isnt a RPG.



To define a RPG youd have to play an indepth role of a character, which you do, if you play a guy with a shield then surely it would be completly against your role as a person to stand at the back waiting for them to come to you? unless of course that is your role, and you can do so but be prepared to lose all your party first. To be a guy with a sword and shield is to be upfront taking the attention of the enemy. To be a mage is to stand back and fire off spells, its how the general idea of these sorts of people act..



Now as far as a party "required" goes, well you can go all out with 4 melee types if you want, nothings stopping you.. You might die more but thats down to strategy, not because you NEED to take others. the game isnt programmed to be harder if you only take 4 melee characters, its just how general strategy works. IF you had 4 swordsman against something that had thick skin and incredible upfront melee power, then those swordsman have to get in close to hurt it, which in turn makes it more likely that they will get hurt. Does this mean that you HAVE to take a mage? No.. it just means if you did then while your swordsman is up front getting hurt, youve got someone to damage it from afar, giving you a two pronged attack upon that monster. This isnt programed to be easier, it just is from the view of basic strategy.



No one is making you take these powerfull combinations, its up to you.. and there is where the roleplaying aspect comes in, youve got choice. They dont limit you to 1 melee, 1 ranged, 1 mage and 1 healer in your party, if your setup isnt as good as anouther setup nothings stopping you still using it and finding your own strategy to overcome the disadvantage having an alternative setup ensues..For example having 2 sword and shield warriors and 2 dagger rogues can be very effective if setup correctly in that the two swordsman keep the attention of the creature while the rogues spam backstabs. This requires alot of tactical moving and alot of pot chugging BUT its a strategy, nothings stopping you from doing it.



I believe you should reconsider your point into that this isnt a balanced strategy game (which they never said it would be) rather than this isnt a RPG, as you seem to have your definitions mixed.

[blugobi]

confirming troll was a success

[Sirronald555]

RPG= Role Playing Game. As in your characters play "roles". A rogue is the one who plays the "role" of finding traps and picking locks. A mages "role" is to nuke/CC. A healer's role is to heal. A tank tanks. What part of that is not included in this game? I'd say this game is 100% roleplaying. if you don't let your characters play their "roles" you are gonna have a VERY painful experience. An rpg does not NEED a story. It does not NEED anything except characters playing "roles". THAT IS WHAT RPG STANDS FOR!!! Adding a story/music and everything else just makes the game immersive and entertaining enough to keep people playing it. I used to play RPG's 20 years ago that were nothing but boring text without any story just lvling your stats and getting abilities and killing stuff. No story no music no nothing except mindless grinding. They were still RPG's.

[Zibon]

Pradeep Sanders wrote...
Just look at the other posts on the
forums and count how often you read about 'tanks' and 'DPS' and 'AoE'
and 'pots' and 'spam' and 'kiting' and a dozen other terms taken from
plotless MMORPG games that require countless hours of grinding against
infinite monsters ('mobs') before you are rewarded with a level, minor
improvement in your abilities, and maybe a piece or two of equipment
that you're more likely to sell than use. These tactics should not be
required simply to make it through an RPG!

Those terms aren't from MMORPGs.  Just because you didn't know the term for what you've been doing doesn't mean that it's a new concept.  The concepts of tanks, DPS, AoE, pots, spam and kiting all exist in BG1.  Specific characters aren't required to complete encounters either.  You'll have a harder time if you're missing certain classes or with certain strange party compositions but that's how it's always been.

If you don't want to deal with the strategy/tactics aspect then I believe the easy difficulty is designed for you.

Modifié par Zibon, 16 novembre 2009 - 12:21 .

[Osprey39]

Pradeep Sanders wrote...

I've played Bioware games for many years, from BG1 on up. I play them for the story, the characters and relationships, and the richness and depth of the world they create. Finding little items linked to the main story, doing character side quests, going through all the conversations with your party to learn about their pasts. I enjoy the writing and the story, I like actively following the story in a game rather than reading it or watching it as a movie.

In other words, I liked those games because they were role-playing games.

The writing for Dragon Age looks to be fantastic. The characters are interesting, and the history of the world is unique and rich. There are areas to be explored off the main quest, and relationships to develop with everyone (and every dog) in your party. This game has every hallmark of a good RPG.

Unfortunately, the freedom of choice in how you play this game has been taken away. The combat encounters require specific party choices and tactics that limit how you follow the story. Just look at the other posts on the forums and count how often you read about 'tanks' and 'DPS' and 'AoE' and 'pots' and 'spam' and 'kiting' and a dozen other terms taken from plotless MMORPG games that require countless hours of grinding against infinite monsters ('mobs') before you are rewarded with a level, minor improvement in your abilities, and maybe a piece or two of equipment that you're more likely to sell than use. These tactics should not be required simply to make it through an RPG!

I don't want to be forced to tackle an encounter with a dragon by requiring specific characters in my party, positioning that party just so, taking advantage of one or two particular magic spells' effects that the AI doesn't handle well, running in circles to allow abilities to recharge, mashing on health or mana potions at exactly the right time to keep the fight going, and pausing constantly to try and guess when I can tell a character to do the next action without losing an action.

I don't mind if some players want to min/max their way to beating the game at the lowest possible level or in the fastest time. Those same players usually care nothing for the non-essential character dialog or side-quests. I'm incredibly disappointed that I am required to the same thing just to move through the story. It sometimes prevents me from taking the characters I would like, from equipping the weapons, armor, or items I would like, from choosing the spells or specializations I would like.

I'm sure some will respond to this by accusing me of just being bad at the game, or telling me to reduce the difficulty (I'm on Normal). I've played plenty of games and I don't think I'm at all bad, but that is beside the point. The 'normal' experience for the game should be one that makes it accessible to the widest audience while still providing some challenge for the satisfactory overcoming of an obstacle. Those people who want a cakewalk can choose Easy, those who want a difficult challenge can choose Hard - or Nightmare.

Bioware ruined this potentially great game with their decision to make it so difficult to merely survive the progression of the story, and Dragon Age does not deserve to be called an RPG in the true meaning of the genre until and unless a radical change is made to the way combat is handled.

-Pradeep

This is the worst post I have ever read on any forum.

PS:  You don't have to sign your debacle with your forum name.  We're quite capable of reading your name under your avatar and we know who the culprit is.

[Arandomindividual]

Difficulty compliments Dragon Age. You're fighting evil forces, not taking out the garbage.

[Alienraptor]

It's been said again and again but just to reemphasize it into a fine powder, all of the "complaints" from the OP apply to the BG series, which he seemed to like just fine. It's completely illogical to praise and criticize elements that are in both games, but love one and hate the other. Terrible post, good troll.

[Bryy_Miller]

After all....if you can just kill a boss on the first try....is that really realistic?

You win the internets.

[DocSun]

Sarodin wrote...
*snip*

i'd love to see you play pen and paper rpgs ^^

THIS!!!

Im a GM and my players have a living hell vs me. This game is true RPG at its heart and cakewalk compared to what I put my players through XD.

[WildstarGoethe]

[Robert Plant] Does anyone remember laughter? [/Robert Plant]



...some of these threads sure are funny. :-)



And DA:O is obviously not an RPG. It's a racing sim.

[MacAttack001]

Disclaimer...what follows is my opinion. It is what I consider to be truth...which is not to be confused with fact. My opinion is exactly worth what you are paying for it...you have been warned. 8-)



I am going to have to agree with the OP.



*SHOCK...GASP...AWE*



Dragon Age Origins is no more a RPG than my chess set.



*shouts of 'HERETIC' can be heard from the villagers*



It is an -excellent- video game and -extremely- enjoyable...but RPG...tis not. RPGs are games like Shadowrun, D&D, GURPS, and other Pen and Paper games that have a group of people getting together sitting down at a table and interacting. In a RPG I my dialog is not limited to the choices of A, B, C, or D.



If I were to list games that I think were in fact RPGs of the electronic variety...those that come closest would be...



Never Winter Nights (the versions where you crowded onto the small hosts and played) and World of Warcraft.



I don't consider myself a great video game player...yet I did not have the problems that the OP experienced. Maybe that is because my first two runs through the game were on the Xbox...although I have the PC version.



Bioware did not play fair though...I am a fan of Claudia Black so they had me hooked regardless!



Ok...that is it...please continue.

[sacredl]

I've played Bioware games for many years, from BG1 on up. I play them for the story, the characters and relationships, and the richness and depth of the world they create. Finding little items linked to the main story, doing character side quests, going through all the conversations with your party to learn about their pasts. I enjoy the writing and the story, I like actively following the story in a game rather than reading it or watching it as a movie.



In other words, I liked those games because they were role-playing games.



The writing for Dragon Age looks to be fantastic. The characters are interesting, and the history of the world is unique and rich. There are areas to be explored off the main quest, and relationships to develop with everyone (and every dog) in your party. This game has every hallmark of a good RPG.



Unfortunately, the freedom of choice in how you play this game has been taken away. The combat encounters require specific party choices and tactics that limit how you follow the story. Just look at the other posts on the forums and count how often you read about 'tanks' and 'DPS' and 'AoE' and 'pots' and 'spam' and 'kiting' and a dozen other terms taken from plotless MMORPG games that require countless hours of grinding against infinite monsters ('mobs') before you are rewarded with a level, minor improvement in your abilities, and maybe a piece or two of equipment that you're more likely to sell than use. These tactics should not be required simply to make it through an RPG!



I don't want to be forced to tackle an encounter with a dragon by requiring specific characters in my party, positioning that party just so, taking advantage of one or two particular magic spells' effects that the AI doesn't handle well, running in circles to allow abilities to recharge, mashing on health or mana potions at exactly the right time to keep the fight going, and pausing constantly to try and guess when I can tell a character to do the next action without losing an action.



I don't mind if some players want to min/max their way to beating the game at the lowest possible level or in the fastest time. Those same players usually care nothing for the non-essential character dialog or side-quests. I'm incredibly disappointed that I am required to the same thing just to move through the story. It sometimes prevents me from taking the characters I would like, from equipping the weapons, armor, or items I would like, from choosing the spells or specializations I would like.



I'm sure some will respond to this by accusing me of just being bad at the game, or telling me to reduce the difficulty (I'm on Normal). I've played plenty of games and I don't think I'm at all bad, but that is beside the point. The 'normal' experience for the game should be one that makes it accessible to the widest audience while still providing some challenge for the satisfactory overcoming of an obstacle. Those people who want a cakewalk can choose Easy, those who want a difficult challenge can choose Hard - or Nightmare.



Bioware ruined this potentially great game with their decision to make it so difficult to merely survive the progression of the story, and Dragon Age does not deserve to be called an RPG in the true meaning of the genre until and unless a radical change is made to the way combat is handled.



-Pradeep

Enchantment?