47 réponses à ce sujet

[swk3000]

I thought I'd throw this up for consideration, since there may be some confusion on why this was done. Frankly, after looking at things, I have to agree with BioWare on doing this. In fact, it makes a lot of sense. Consider:

Warriors - Strength determines a Warrior's damage, so having Strength as a requirement means that in the process of getting better armor, you'll also increase your damage output. Constitution, on the other hand, increases health. Since a Warrior is on the front lines most of the time, more health means they can take more of a beating. As a note, 30 Constitution is equal to 150 health; a sizable boost.

Rogues - Dexterity determines a Rogue's damage. As for Cunning, getting 30 Cunning allows you to open all but the hardest locks (I understand that the highest level needed for Lockpicking is 40), so getting better armor also means more chests will open to you. This results in more loot, and more money.

Mages - Magic determines the Mage's Spellpower, and consequently their damage output. Willpower, on the other hand, determines a Mage's total mana. This results in being able to cast more spells.

In every case, increasing stats to the required level for the best armor also gives you a sizable boost to your class's core needs. It's a solid system for ensuring that you have the stats you need to do what you need to.

[soteria]

I guess. The negative is that it heavily restricts the number of viable builds. The positive is that it makes it easier for Bioware to tune encounters, in theory, because they can guess what sort of stats you'll have.

[MJF JD]

i agree that it is a good way to guide people towards an optimal build for their character. However, i think it takes away from being able to optimize alternate style builds. Like it is much more difficult to invest in cunning and make it worth your while on a warrior tank with the requirements for their gear needing constitution.

[Sokane]

I haven't thought about it, but I also haven't had any issues. The stats it requires are the ones I've been putting points into anyway... Seems a non-issue to me.

[soteria]

It's a non-issue to you because it lets you do what you already wanted to do. If you wanted to do something different, then it's definitely an issue.

[Eldragon]

I'm not a fan. When each class needs to max out a pair of stats in order to even use armor and weapons for your class. You may as well not even bother with having Attributes at all, and just have straight up abilities. I'd much rather the game let players use whatever weapon/armor they wanted.

[x-president]

soteria wrote...

I guess. The negative is that it heavily restricts the number of viable builds. The positive is that it makes it easier for Bioware to tune encounters, in theory, because they can guess what sort of stats you'll have.

Agreed.

I prefer the freedom to make mistakes and have full customization.  To me having a Mage need willpower to wear armor doesn't make a lot of sense.  Isn't armor designed to boost weaker stats or increase dmg.  Why should it be necessary to increase those stats to wear the armor.


I prefer not to have my hand held throughout the game.

Modifié par x-president, 09 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[Alraiis]

Really not liking how this system works out for Blood Mages.

[soteria]

x-president! Glad to see some old hands around.

On topic: this system is somewhat similar to the Diablo stat system. Gear has one or two stat requirements, so if you want to wear the best gear, you need to take at least x/x dex/str. I think that system worked better in Diablo, though, because as a general rule items didn't have class restrictions. If you wanted to play an amazon in gothic plate or an assassin with casting gear, you could do that.

In DA2, it's highly unlikely that a warrior would ever want to put on rogue gear (or vice versa) because of the way the primary stats contribute to damage/attack. I wouldn't have done that in any event, but it's unfortunate for those that would want to.

[soteria]

This is the feeling I'm starting to get, what's the point of the attributes if each class must focus in two specific ones. I think attribute requirements on weapons and armor is fine, but maybe mix it up a smidge? Have some armor that requires higher str but less con, or str and dex and so forth. I hope it doesn't end up being so one-dimensional.

I agree with this, too. So far I've just seen (for example) 21 str/21 con, always in a 1:1 ratio. It would be really interesting and fun to see items that took different ratios or different stat combinations, such as cun/con or something similar.

[x-president]

soteria wrote...

x-president! Glad to see some old hands around.

On topic: this system is somewhat similar to the Diablo stat system. Gear has one or two stat requirements, so if you want to wear the best gear, you need to take at least x/x dex/str. I think that system worked better in Diablo, though, because as a general rule items didn't have class restrictions. If you wanted to play an amazon in gothic plate or an assassin with casting gear, you could do that.

In DA2, it's highly unlikely that a warrior would ever want to put on rogue gear (or vice versa) because of the way the primary stats contribute to damage/attack. I wouldn't have done that in any event, but it's unfortunate for those that would want to.

What's up.  Yea I'll be around a lot more now.  No more shapeshifting.


But yea I agree that there would never be a really good reason to wear a different class armor.  They seem to be benefit that specific class

[Schurge]

I hate the lack of build flexibility afforded by this. So much for making a DPS sword and boarder like I did in Origins... I am level 8 and I can't even tank I run out of AP so fast because I am unable to put points into Willpower.

His final stats were like 70str 30 dex 40wp 22cunning 20 const (maybe 30).

[SpezXVII]

Quoting what I said in another thread since it applies to this discussion as well.

SpezXVII wrote...

I'm annoyed that I have to have equal
amounts of Strength and Constitution to equip armor for my 2H Warrior.
Honestly, it has put a ridiculous strain on my build since I was going
to invest in Cunning to help with Defense. If I do invest even minor
amounts in Cunning or Willpower/Stamina, I'm going to have an issue
equipping armors.

[SonvarTheMighty]

Maybe I haven't gotten to the more powerful items but the most I've seen as a requirement was a 19 STR and CON for the Blood Dragon Armor. Yeah you have to invest some points there though it isn't much and it doesn't prevent you from placing points elsewhere after that since we don't have the restriction of needing certain attributes for abilities like DAO had as well

[rabidhellhound]

I don't mind the idea, since it does improve each classes core stats, but like previously stated, it limits viable build. But even that isn't my main problem with how they did things. I don't like how you NEVER gain health or mana/stamina unless if you increase those stats. EVER!

While that's not so bad for those classes that heavily rely on it, it kind of screws over everyone else because you're so concerned on building up a charcter's important stats that you have to wait forever to boost up their secondary ones. A mage or a rouge will always have that pathetically low health and die faster than you can blink sometimes. Conversely, a warrior and a rouge never have enough stamina for skills once you get some sustainables going on them. It kind of feels like no matter what you do, you get screwed over in some way until you're high enough leveled to have stats to spare.

I wish that the creators would have at least given us a LITTLE bit of health and mana/stamina upon level up. Something that will help out with these issues a little bit like in DA:O. Something like 7/5/3 health for warriors/rouges/mages and 7/5/3 mana/stamina for mages/rogues/warriors. It's not much, but just enough to help counter the fact that you'll rarely put any points into some of these stats.

[MetallicaRulez0]

The only case in which I have found the 2 stat requirement a problem is with Tanks and Strength. I'd much rather put all of Aveline's points into Cunn and Cons, but I'm forced to continually pump points into Strength to keep her weapon/shield up to date.

For Mages and Rogues (and 2h Warriors) the 2 stat system works pretty much perfectly.

[Twofold Black]

MetallicaRulez0 wrote...

For Mages and Rogues (and 2h Warriors) the 2 stat system works pretty much perfectly.

Unless you're playing a blood mage with any sort of eye for optimization, in which case it's a disaster.

[Naitaka]

Oh please, you should consider it a blessing we still have stats, at least it allow more freedom than Diablo 3, seriously they should just remove the freedom to pick your talent, stats, and tactic altogether, this way they can plan their encounter so much more easily and maybe we might have 2 layouts for dungeon instead of 1.

Modifié par Naitaka, 10 mars 2011 - 02:06 .

[Jymm]

I just found this armor / weapon requirement earlier today and I have to say it annoyed me straightaway. I had already been taking my tank character down a cunning path to try to build up defense and suddenly found I couldn't wear even basic armor. If this continues to scale up such that you _must_ put one point into each of two stats at every level to keep up with item requirements that is really kind of railroading us as players. Can't you just put it in the tutorial that we should pick str and con as warriors and then let us choose to be sub-optimal if we want to? This is why so many people are hating on DA2 for simplicity. So far its a fun game but some design decisions are just maddening.

[Ace Attorney]

Naitaka wrote...

Oh please, you should consider it a blessing we still have stats, at least it allow more freedom than Diablo 3, seriously they should just remove the freedom to pick your talent, stats, and tatic altogether, this way they can plan their encounter so much more easily and maybe we might have 2 layouts for dungeon instead of 1.

Show me on the doll where Hawke touched you.



Dude, who got under your skin, unless that is sarcasm under your sarcasm.

[Naitaka]

T3hAnubis wrote...


Dude, who got under your skin, unless that is sarcasm under your sarcasm.

Sorry, I'm just grumpy in the morning especially since I have to go to work instead of play DA2. Honestly though, between this and lock picking, I've stop playing a rogue altogether because I have to pump all my stats into Dex and Cun just to be able to pick all the locks and disarm all the traps. It kind of defeat the purpose of having stats in the first place. I hope it gets better once we hit end game, but so far, up till level 16 it feel like Bioware is building my rogues for me.

Modifié par Naitaka, 10 mars 2011 - 02:39 .

[soteria]

Ironically, we have a lot more freedom in building companions.

[Naitaka]

soteria wrote...

Ironically, we have a lot more freedom in building companions.

Quite true, and consider how a companion's specialty spec is basically half of a Hawke's spec, it's much more satisfying just building them companion the way we want.

[Vohnn]

This is a action game with some rpg features what are you guys complaining about! I rly dont understand.

oh w8.

edit: On a side note a mod that would reduce stat requirements of armors, weapons, lockpiking, trap disarming could help with this problem, has is if u have a clue you are stuck to building your atributes only 1 way, with very litle variation, or you simply gimp your character.

Modifié par Vohnn, 10 mars 2011 - 02:51 .