1012 réponses à ce sujet

[Ingu]

Depending on perspective I suppose you can call it an improvement or a major flaw. The game plays like a DA:O - origins story and its minor conflicts condensed into one linear story with minimum locale. The story lacked any meaningful drive and you were just sort of waiting for the next thing to happen.

In DA:O, you cared about the conflicts between the Dalish/Werewolves and Mages/Templars because not only were they sympathetic, you also had both the reason and responsibility to sort out their crises. You wanted them to join your army so you can end the blight, and at the same time you weren't forced to care more than you have to (hell, you didn't even have to help them) because you had the choice for it to be nothing more than a necessary chore for you. You could even play the game that way, like you never wanted to be part of the whole thing and was just there out of obligation. That's a mentality which potentially translates to and reflects the player's state-of-mind.

Contrast this with DA2, the entire time you are more or less just 'living life' with your group of friends within Kirkwall, which means most of the time you can and will choose to be a bystander not involved in major conflicts unless it affects you personally. It's a universal mentality not only required for Hawke to be believable in his situation, but also means that the players feel the same way. Because you don't strictly have responsibility to anyone, you never feel the need to involve yourself in the way you had to in Origins.

All the conflict, major decisions, and voice-of-opinion are arguably brought on by your companions, which in my opinion is a little abusive. Fenris is the mouthpiece of the templars, Merrill a glowing beacon of warning as to why mages should be treated with caution?/sympathy?. On the other end, Anders is THE mouthpiece of the mages (arguably also a glowing beacon of beware-of-mages). Isabela can put you in a terrible place with the Arishok, and Anders basically forces you to pick a side when he blows up the Chantry. The consequence of this is while it becomes more 'realistic', it also really allows for the player to develop personal grudges against their companions themselves because it is these -characters-, these -people- which push and pull them in directions they don't want to go towards, instead of the situation itself.

I'm not sure if that's fair, in a sense, it's certainly different, and definitely means better developed characters, but at the same time the companions are no longer supporters of the hero but potential 'burdens' which do nothing but annoy. Notably - Anders incessant whinging and his ongoing rivalry with Fenris. The Morrigan + Alistair interaction was funny because you knew none of it was serious. In DA2, however, the characters openly loathe each other, which isn't so much fun and engaging as tragic and irritating. class and tactics issues force you to keep them beside you, but they're no longer supporting your experience, they're weighing it down.

In the same vein, I feel the impact that your companions have on your character's fate really limits the amount of 'freedom' which people feel. The general consensus seem to be that Hawke is more an innocent bystander dragged into the mess by, once again, general consensus that he must, with no apparant meaningful reason. He's only there for the ride when Bartrand finds the lyrium idol. The whole thing with the Arishok? Blame Isabela, who only clung onto Hawke at the start because... 'he was different from the rest'? That's... meaningful judgement. Mage/templar war? Would Hawke even have been part of this without Anders blowing the whole thing up? Then again if Varric hadn't told him about it?

Things would have been greatly improved, in my honest opinion, if we were given more interaction with our 'friends/rivals' and 'family'. If we were given more of a reason to care and be emotionally invested in the fortune of these people then the whole experience could've been much more engrossing and meaningful. The character development is there, I could see it as I played, but it was just nowhere near as accessible because we couldn't actually do more than hear what they wanted to say. I wish we had the chance to actually ask them questions when we felt the desire to and got to know them on a more personal, intimate level. With this new system it's -listen to what they have to say-, -respond in one of three attitudes-, -ask questions and you'd better pay attention because it's now or never-, -leave-. In summary, not enough freedom or opportunities when it comes to companion interaction.

And ultimately, the structure of the story itself is flawed. Sure you can see the 'journey', or the 'work of fate/coincidence' in Hawke's 'rise to power', but once again, you feel like you were just chained to the back of a speeding vehicle and dragged along for the ride, sure you make it from point A to B in the end. But what was the point of it all? What was the player's reward? The lack of closure at the end was terrible for the impact of the overall experience because it made all of it seem even more meaningless than it was. Your friends who you fought for and doomed you to this new fate? They all left you... due to, various reasons.

In DA:O, sure you had a goal, but you had the obligation to fulfill your 'duty' because you're the last wardens in Ferelden and the only people who can stop this blight, who can save these innocent lives. As contrived as it sounds it's only a cliche because it works.

In DA2, sure the goal and overarching 'duty to the people' is still there, but it's no longer a real 'responsibility'. You're just some random off the street, and for apparantly no reason than being 'preferred' by a few key individuals (Varric, Isabela, Anders), you are forced into ridiculous situations doing things you never wanted to. And the thing is, these 'forces' aren't even ones you really care about or feel responsible to.



So in summary, what Dragon Age 2 lacked was:

- Free, personal interaction with companions (especially when they are so influential to the story's events, it's essential that we feel a sense of responsibility to them)
- More emotional impact by way of quests, characters and settings (we need a reason to care about these people)
- More player control (or at least the illusion of it!) over story events (more choice! Just about everybody wanted a choice to play middle ground but no one was allowed to stand-by their decision. People would've preferred to be punished for what they believe than be forced to chose a side. Couldn't we just say stfu to Meredith? And THEN be attacked for it?)
- A more rewarding ending (when the journey itself is tedious, the achievement should at least be fulfilling for the game to have true merit)


Granted I did enjoy this game, and will go on to play it multiple times, but honestly it's my love for Thedas and its community which was provided by the first game (as well the unexplored potential/developments) which will actually keep me going. It's good, it's entertaining, but by all standards it should have been better. Paying this amount of money for what gives the impression of 'unfinished product (story)' is not the way to leave players satisfied. I can't help but feel the entire game just really lacks enough meaningful -content-, it could really have used extra development time. This product as is, though passable (and decent as a game), is really not acceptable from a studio which carries as much prestige and expectations as Bioware.

Modifié par Ingu, 29 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[Ingu]

...and I'm feeling this incredibly strongly, so I'm going to copy-paste something from another thread. This is a huge problem for DA2 which I really can't support.

The three acts are really three arcs. The first act is mostly about collecting the gold to go into the deep roads, we don't actually see much mage injustice or qunari influence in that stage at all. Similarly in the second act the qunari are -suddenly- this big thing we have to deal with, and we don't really get the reason. Third act, same with mages/templars, except this time around we've had Anders whining in our year for the whole game and Fenris brooding over the exact same thing.

The game doesn't so much as -show- us what we are supposed to care about as -tell- us. Each act is so short and so self-contained it doesn't allow much to actually 'develop' at all. This is just like DA:O in a way, but the freedom of what to tackle first is taken away, and we're forced on a linear path. That, and Hawke is more like a bystander dragged into the fray for little more reason than being in the right place at the right time... all the time. You don't feel any actual commitment to what you're doing.

So I'm going to turn around and say yes, the story does lack focus. It's like each conflict in DA:O dalish/werewolf, mage/templar, harrowmont/bhelen condensed into one location, your character never left their origin, and the whole thing with the blight and stuff removed. That's all it is.

So in the light of missing an overarching goal, it does lack a focus which ties all ten years together. Each act stands well on its own, but all ten years? Not so much.

[nokori3byo]

Thanks for creating this thread.  Some interesting reading so far.  And the notion of getting constructive criticism from fans!  Such idealism.

Just for the sake of novelty. I'm actually going to write a review of my second playthrough, which is no a little past the half-way point.  Multiple playthroughs are the norm for Bioware fans--I've gone through ME2 eight times, and I'm led to believe that's nothing special for ethusiasts.  Besides, any game that would dare to take its place among storied titles like KOTOR, BG2, and the Mass Effect series, should definitely sustain interest for multiple playthroughs.

Let's start by getting this out of the way

My score: 8.0  (Would have been higher, but read on)

First, some obvious cirticisms: everyone complains about the reused assets in the game and everyone has a point.  Going through the same abandonned mine for the fiftieth time felt sloggy enough on the first playthrough when I still had curiousity about what would happen next to spur me on.  On the second plathrough it's simply brutal.  I remember how, in the first game, the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest had quite a unique setting, with snow-filled caverns and even level geometry that seemed distinctive within the game.  I appreciated that because it made a key area of the game seem special and completely unlike other areas.  I also remember how Orzamar and the Fade took flack for having settings that were visually too repetitive.  With past experience as a reference, you would think the level designers would  known they were going to taste the lash for a game world that was as repetitive as those areas at their worst.  The result is blatant and unapologetic immersion-breaking.

And that is my major ciriticism of the game.  It breaks immersion often, where it would have been easy to avoid doing so.  Having enemies appear out of thin air as you enter an area just feels video gamey and seems as though it should be a relic of some bygone generation.  Another example is the boss characters who follow the pattern of fighting until their health bars reach a certain level then  fleeing to a nearby perch and summoning a bunch of mooks.  I've mentioned this in another thread, but I find that kind of thing about as compelling as a big ape shuffling back and forth and rolling barrels at me.  There must be a better way.

Before I move on to what I liked about the game, I should mention that I didn't completely agree with the way certain things became unavailable at the conclusion of each chapter.  DA2 has pacing issues early on, and forcing players to hang around in Acts 1 or 2 longer than they needed to could have been a mistake.  Even doing a no-frills playthrough, it often feels as though the story has called in sick leaving a bunch of pale substitues to distract the player in the interim.

So, how did this game wring an 8/10 out of me despite these glaring flaws?  Well, I found everything else about it to be pretty good.  To wit:

The Story:  Completely original and bracingly different from the high fantasy setting of the first game.  Sure, it can feel plodding in places, but I will forgive a lot when the ending is satisfying.  On this count, DA2 produces one of the few endings in a game of this generation I would describe as "numbing."  The writers had the guts to do something different this time around and for that, they score major points.
I will admit that, initally, I missed the whole mythology of the Grey Wardens, which I found to be the most ineteresting aspect of the first game's story.  As the situation in Kirkwall was fleshed out though, I began to appreciate the complex, mercurial nature of the conflict that would come to a head in Act 3.

New Combat:  I liked it.  Tight.  Visceral.  Fun. 

Characters:  I wasn't a huge fan of the party members in DA:O, so I'll just say that, while the next batch may be slightly less interesting, having a vocal protagonist with personality more than makes up for it.

Changes to inventory, etc:  This stuff didn't really bother me, though a lot of the fancier armour I picked up and couldn't use just went to waste, which was kind of a shame.  I'd already gotten used to the fixed companion outfits from ME2 and won't be losing any sleep over it.

There's a lot of other stuff I could mention, both as plusses and negatives,  But, caveats aside, the game is more than holding my interest the second time through.  There's a lot of cool stuff to go back and discover for those of us who did no frills playthroughs the first time around.  It's not a perfect game and is a bit flumoxing when considered as a direct sequel to DA:O, but it stands on its own merits.

[Carmen_Willow]

This is my third and final review of DA:II
I play on console (and yes I have a PC, but the controls are easier to use on console)  Xbox 360
My education level is Masters level (for those who only think idiots play on console [sigh]).
I will try to be organized and brief:
Games Played: 4 One in each role w/ an additional Mage.  3 Females 1 Male.
Characters Romanced:  Andres, Fenris and Merril
Sides Taken: 3 Mages, 1 Templar
Times Anders Killed: 3 
Times Anders Spared to fight with me: 1

Best Post Romance Scene: Male Hawke with Merrill - very tender, very sweet wished they all were that way.
Least exciting Post Romance Scene: Anders  (Lease Exciting Romance Scene as well).
Times I send Fenriel to Tevinter: 3      (I tranquil)

Carver as Warden: 1
Carver as Templar 1
Bethany as Circle Mage 2

Number of Times Dalish are slaughtered: 3  "Saved": 1

Things I'd like back:  Autoattack and the ability to put other armor on my companions.
Things I hated:  The crappy loot!  I'd fight a really good fight, and what does the chest contain: an empty bottle! Gee - thanks.

New Art Style:   It grew on me.  Started out hating it.  Now I like it.  (Still miss lush landscapes and backgrounds).

New Faces:  So much better!  Really liked the new faces, new armor, new robes, hoods. Much better. I loved going to the Black Emporium and changing my hairstyle and eyeshadow each act (to indicate the passage of time and to match my new outfit.)  I even changed maleHawke's hairstyle.

New Combat: Please give consoles auto attack back.  It became literally, physically painful to play the game because of no auto attack.

New Combat's worst glitch:  Press A and character keeps repeating finishing move instead of attacking. I would have to use an ability to get character out of baton twirling mode. AGHHHHHHH! Also spell doesn't follow target.

Hardest Fight in the Game: The Demon Horde on the Docks in Act 3!! Come on, guys!  It was too much!!/
Character who needed more:  Nathaniel needed more lines.  Like:  "Was your father Arl Howe?" "How's that workin for ya?"

Story:  Beginning needed more background on characters before fleeing to the wilds. It was this that made sibling's death rather ho-hum.  A little time in Lothering before it became a wasteland would have given the player an idea of what Hawke lost. Act one was too slow in that it failed to move the characters' personalities forward much. Additional cutscene with Mother during time as mercenary could have been GOLD for character development. Carter was done well Act One.

Act 2:  Much better in terms of plot development. I actually began to like the story and wanted to see more of Hawke's rise.  Arishok very well done, developing tension very well done. My characters tended to say "Heck No" to a duel and fought it out.  In my culture, survival has meaning.  "Those who fight an run away may live to fight another day." I liked that I could just leave Isabella in the bar, and the story would still move forward to conclusion.  Didn't care for her much. Liked Fenris more, but I missed him completely on one playthrough and it worked fine.

Act 3: Betrayal, death, more death, betrayal, doom, gloom, betrayal, death .....and three idiot crazies. Depressing, hopeless, sad, hopeless,"what did I do it for?"  "The Demon made me do it."  "The Mean Commander made me do it."  and "The Red Idol/Sword made me do it."   Seemed like cop-outs to me, folks.  Couldn't we have just let their own human failings lead them into this disaster? It took away from the drama.  

Characters:  Anders, Fenris and Merrill very well written, excellently written in fact.  Anders' inflated sense of self-importance leads him to distruction (I'm the only one who can solve this problem - my way.) Viscount-very well written. Parent I most wanted to cry with when he held his dead son.  What DID it all mean at that point?  His kid was dead.
The Keeper - very well written.  Writer made the point "nothing good comes of demons" very well through her. Giving players and obscure line that stops the slaughter of the Dalish?  CONNOR COP-OUT OF THE STORY!

Fenris who discovers that you can't kill the hate inside you by killing the thing that caused it.  Priceless
Merrill who remains blind to her faults, even when her entire tribe is destroyed.  "I can control the blood magic.  I'm special." 

In my last playthough, I was male Hawke romancing Merrill.  I did duel the Arishok, I let Bethany be taken by the templars, I slaughtered the Dalish, I tranquilized Fenriel, Fenris sided with Templars - I killed him, I let the terrorist slimeball live so he could help me win the battle. Murder knife awaits, however.  I would not have let him live much longer than getting out of town. Very depressing. Very sad. Wanted to cry and not in a good way.  If you meant for me to feel hopeless and doomed - you achieved your goal.

Keeping sister alive only bright side.  

Final Grade:

Gameplay:  C+  (With Auto Attack in place B+)  
Story:  B+  (Slow start and depressing ending lower grade)
Characters Overall:  B+  (Anders gets an A.  Even more controversial than Loghain.)
Art Style B+

I ALMOST FORGOT!  THANK  YOU FOR NOT HANGING BODIES FROM EVERY RAFTER IN THIS GAME!!! THANK YOU! (edited to add this comment)

 

Modifié par Carmen_Willow, 28 mars 2011 - 12:55 .

[Nighteye2]

Statulos wrote...

After a couple playthroughs on the game and after trying different approaches to the whole game, I think why I know this game failed to grab me tight like DA:O did: the interplay between game mechanics and narrative was not as well done as DA:O while the whole script and its premises are (I think) better and potentially more interesting in DA 2 than in Origins.

How would I have done it? Well, let´s go step by step.

Act 1.

You´re in Kirkwall being poor, marginal and eager to change that. You have the chance to do so by funding an expedition to the Deep Roads to become wealthy and make a difference. You also discover that you have a legacy to claim (the Amell family) and people you care for to help and support that, at the same time may help you.

In the game you are forced to run errands for different individuals to gather the money, errands that aim at presenting the issues that will cover the whole game. However, those "chores" dilute the sense of direction: you need the capital to invest in a job that can set you for life (a plot resource similar to BG2 payment to rescue Imoen).

The best way to not be sidetracked in terms of goal is drawing from the very source that got you in Kirkwall: your employers. 50 bucks is a lot of money, and you should know that because Bartrand, a wealthy and prosperous merchant cannot afford the whole expedition by himself.

To gather that money you do not only aim to work again for your employers, but to actually rise in their ranks and become the person that really moves the coin. Be brutal and ruthless or gentle and subtle becoming the "king of the lowlifes" (being them mercs of smugglers) effectively transforming those lowlifes and yourself into a force to be respected in Kirkwall. On your way up, get conflict with your companions (Aveline and Varric) about your methods, compete with your market niche against other lowlives (the Coterie, Pirates, other mercs...) and make sure your name is well known before going underground. If you do well not only you´ll be rich and famous, but you will also have a group of people that fear/loves/admires you as individual and that can be under your leadership (mercs or smugglers) plus a group of very close individuals attached to you more personaly (companions).

Act 2.
Now you have the capital and the manpower, but not the social recognition nor the political importance. This is your time to get there thanks to the Qunari issue. Become a noble in Kirkwall, but again, becoming a "man of the people" or a ruthless profiteer from other´s misery is up to you. The mine venture is a perfect venue to access wealth and position by acquiring a respectable bussiness that also builds on the mining tradition of Kirkwall: you have the retainers and this is the moment to put them to good (or profitable but unfair) use. Depending on our actions, the phisical aspects of Kirkwall should even change thus being capable of aleviting some of the misery from Darktown or making lowtown less dangerous.

Companions should have been able to move on and progress their own agenda leading to more interactions. Varric should have been able to acquire the Hanged Man, Aveline is now captain, Merrill should be known and loved/hated (probably both) in the alienage. Also, allow us to actually make the mansion in hightown our own little place and customize it. Give Bhodan a bigger role as steward, allow the mansion to reflect our rising power and even more important, make it bigger. Some quests could be related to this (acquiring art from shady sources, hiring personel since you actually can offer a slave a maid position...). Now that you´re on top and important, this is the moment when all that remains makes sense: you´re still vulnerable, now you have something to loose. Now you´re part of a comunity and the events in that community affect you. That should be the call to finally, solve the qunari issue.

Act 3.

Finally you have become a very important person in Kirwall. You have the manpower (your retainers from act 1), wealth (mine from act 2), the social recognition (your mansion, being declared champion...) and you´re in the right place at the right time.
Thus, it makes sense that with the rising tensions between templars and mages, both sides look at you for help (again, you have the funds, the leadership, the contacts in the form of your companions and the public fear/support) to turn the tide in one side, the other... or none. Keep events running and give us the possibility of taking sides or beat everybody into submission for personal, profit or whatever reason you see fit.

Basically this should enforce the idea of personal agency, rise to power and influence, You can now be feared or loved, but by the end of the game it has been made clear that you were not just a withness and bystander, but an actual participant (willing or undwilling) in the huge events taking place.

That woould've been a pretty big improvement, I agree...

[Dhanni]

I'm glad I waited to comment on the game until after my second playthrough.  The first time, I was mostly just struck by all the changes.  Change can seem almost as bad as swooping sometimes.  The second time, the subtleties of the story started to sink in.  I can think of dozens of possibilities for the DLC/expansions.  So, here are my likes/dislikes.

- Love the new combat.  I went back and picked up an ongoing character in Origins for a bit.  The combat felt totally unsatisfying after playing DA2.
-  Loved the cameo appearances by Origins characters.  Still miss Allistair and Morrigan.  None of the new characters have quite their appeal.
-  Much has been said about the plot structure in DA2 but I'm ok with it now that I think I can grab the nuances.

- Probably the thing I dislike most is the rehashed environments.  Seems like a cheap cost-cutting measure.
- Frankenmom was just bad; Mages Gone Wild theme a bit overdone. 
- Some fights were just ludicrous with the constant spawns from the sky.
- I would like to be able to outfit my crew, not just give them jewelry
- More interaction with companions would be nice.

Overall, I am enjoying the game and would give it a good solid 8/10.  Thanks, Bioware

[Jester12]

Alright.
Likes- I thought this game had great writing for the characters. Sometimes i would just do some exploring just so i could hear some of the conversations between my companions. I thought it really was a step up from what i have seen in the past. Plus the characters i could recruit were generally good. Especially Varric. Next the story was good. It was not the same thing you guys at bioware have done in the past. 3 major objectives then advance to the climax and end. I liked the political aspects of this game and the moral choices you had to make between Templars and Mages. The graphics were excellent and combat was very responsive. Although it could be seen as a downgrade from the tactical slower paced combat of the first and Awakening but i kind of liked it, it just made it faster paced and the visuals during the combat were excellent. Plus i like what seems to be a development of Sandal and where it could be taking him as a major character. I definitely enjoyed seeing practically every single character that was involved with Origins and Awakening. I'm just curious as to what happened to the drunken dwarf.

Dislikes- The repetitve use of the environment made it a little dreary but fantastic nonetheless. The shimmer in the characters during a conversation kind of threw me off. Probably just something that has a quick fix. Another problem i had was just the bugginess in some of the achievements. Its frustrating to look for a crafting source just to look online and see it doesn't show up.

Anyways, Bioware i personally believe you made an excellent game despite some of the bugs included in it. I'm on my 3rd playthrough and still happy with it.

Modifié par Jester12, 28 mars 2011 - 04:12 .

[MiyoKit]

I have completed the game on PC.

Pros:
-    The new art style.
-    The new combat (though I miss overhead).
-    Alistair’s cameo .
-    The music.
-    The look of the gear.
-    The ending was good, it has made me hope to see the warden in DA3.
-    The Story. It was good (though Hawke ruined it a bit for reasons below).

Cons:
-    Giving the main character a voice. I liked it in Mass Effect but it didn’t work for me here, (though this may be because female Hawke seems to always sound quite ‘snooty’). This made me feel somewhat distanced from Hawke, where she became ‘just some character’.
-    The lack of response by Hawk in cutscenes. A few examples (but by no means the only instances): When Anders was about to kill that mage, Hawke just stayed back to soak it all in, telling him dispassionately to calm down, from a distance; and when Hawke found Bethany on the floor after the Qunari invasion and it was the first enchanter who ran to help her, furthermore when Bethany actually got up, Hawke gave a response emotionally equivalent to ‘sup Beth’.
-    Fights that didn’t quite make sense, for example; the fight with the elves after the Keeper became an abomination, after a tiny cut scene you basically butchered an entire clan of people, I didn’t like Merril, and given the option I would of handed her over to them, so when I was forced to murder loads of people for her it was a bit odd (I know you could escape killing them, but iirc they attacked you anyway if you went to Sundermount again); And the fight with the first enchanter when he randomly became an abomination, we had just killed a load of Templars, things weren’t looking that bad, it just felt random.
-    The re-use of zones. I don’t usually mind this, but the entire game was a few zones cycled over and over again, which got a bit tedious.
-    The new skills tree. After a certain point I found myself randomly putting my points anywhere because I ran out of skills I wanted, I played a rogue archer.
-    The lack of customizability in companion outfits. They pretty much wore the same thing, with one change, for 10 years. Furthermore, I miss equipping them with gear I find, and I thought, at least for Aveline, it was a bit silly she never wore a helmet.
-    The lack of companion interaction. It was better than the god-awful system in Awakenings, but, at least for me, it wasn’t as good as Origins (I actually enjoyed doing the ‘rounds’). so I ended up only caring about Varric, the rest were just ‘these guys who followed me around and hit stuff’, only talking to me when they wanted a lacky.

Overall, it was a good game, better than most games out there, but in comparison to other Bioware games, DA:O in particular, it was nowhere near them, you set the bar too high. I am not even sure I will do more than one run-through of it, where I spent way over a hundred hours in DA:O.

Overall score: 7/10.

Modifié par MiyoKit, 28 mars 2011 - 04:26 .

[ReallyRue]

Well, over all, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I think the story was done incredibly well, especially how Hawke's personal life was entwined with the overall story - like the All That Remains quest. That one was both tragic and suspenseful. In general, the way that many sidequests feel like part of the main story made it more enjoyable, instead of a 'go and fetch 20 deep mushrooms' quest. They were more involving. I enjoyed the way both the story and the characters evolved over the years, with companions opening up to you the longer they remained with you. They were interesting and felt real - both appealing and flawed. The different ways that things could play out (for instance, the fate of your 'surviving' sibling at the end of Act 1), and the recurring presence of companion sidequests that ran the entire length of the story. The twists and turns with them in the larger story (mainly Anders and Isabela) were very well done. The fact that Hawke her/himself also felt like a three-dimensional character was also gratifying. Sometimes in DAO, I felt like the Warden was more like an avatar for my decisions, rather than a character with feeling and personality, just like the others. The personality tracking thingy was definitely an excellent inclusion.

In positive regards to other things, I loved the new designs for robes/armour and such. Far more varied and interesting. And the combat felt much more exciting than the ponderous style of DAO. I would have liked an auto-attack for the console though. 'Press A to attack' only really works for me if I'm playing the game for short bursts'. The new skill trees were also an improvement, and I liked that warriors/rogues also got different 'schools' of combat, just as mages do. The changing appearance of your family to reflect your chosen preset/skin tone was also a good feature, as was the more unique appearance of the elves.

As for the criticism, the ending itself felt slightly underwhelming. Maybe that was because it was sort of a cliff hanger, but felt like Varric finished his story and said 'yeah, I don't know where the Champion is. Bye now' and then the story was over, rather than giving a glimpse of what state the world actually has been left in, and therefore exactly what effect Hawke has had on the world at large. Rather than epilogue slides telling us the ending, it was a few words from Varric, but achieved a similar effect to me. I'd also have liked companions situations to develop a little more outside of their individual agendas. For instance, did Fenris really do nothing more than squat in Danarius' mansion for seven years until those occasions when he was hunted? And Isabela just sat around in the Hanged Man getting drunk? The link between chosen class and Carver/Bethany's survival also didn't have a great impact, as far as I could see. Given either's potential to die at the end of Act 1, it seems odd that you couldn't make a Kaiden/Ashley style choice in the prologue without it adversely affecting Hawke's link to the mage/templar conflict. For instance, in my rogue playthrough, Bethany died, meaning technically she had nothing to tie her to the conflict other than her own interest, so why couldn't she have had Carver instead? I wasn't so keen on how the final confrontation with Anders was handled either. It seemed too sympathetic. If you kill him, he believes he's dying a martyr, but if you tell him to go, it's because you don't want to kill him, rather than because you want him to live with the guilt. The romance aspect also seemed to have no bearing on that conversation, despite the obvious betrayal. It could have done with a little more emotion from Hawke. The option to punch him wouldn't have been such a bad thing either, heh.

I don't have any real criticisms of anything else, although it did seem slightly too easy for Hawke to be an apostate in Kirkwall without repercussions. No blackmail or templar confrontations. I also dislike the monstrously large spiders, but that's just a personal complaint I suppose.

[Morgora]

Statulos wrote...

After a couple playthroughs on the game and after trying different approaches to the whole game, I think why I know this game failed to grab me tight like DA:O did: the interplay between game mechanics and narrative was not as well done as DA:O while the whole script and its premises are (I think) better and potentially more interesting in DA 2 than in Origins.

I totally agree.

Link to post by Statulos: http://social.biowar...5162/23#6803132

Modifié par Morgora, 28 mars 2011 - 05:11 .

[The_dackman]

So I've been thinking about my playthrough of 2 on and off since I finished it. Frankly, the more I've done so, the more irritated I've been with it.

I suppose it's never a good sign when you get to the end of a game, the credits start of roll and your first response is, "Wait... really? Huh." Since then I can't help but feel slightly robbed of any conclusion. The ending was pretty awful, reminding me more than a little bit of Witch Hunt's: hinting at bigger things to come is well and good, but not if it comes at the cost of not resolving anything. Hawke ran away, "...with Isabella, of course"? No, not of course. I sank 20-odd hours into my gameplay, with Isabella a permanent feature of my party. Aside from a glib cutscene of the pair of them snogging, and about two lewd comments, I had no idea what was going on with them. Compared to the romance with Morrigan in Origins, the decision just felt irrelevant.

Speaking of Morrigan, having finished DA:2 with a save imported from Witch Hunt, I find it an even more pointless and unforgivable DLC package. I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt since it had at least hinted at bigger things to come in the sequel. Now I've finished the sequel, still no answers. No mention of the Hero of Ferelden going through the Eluvian; no hint of Morrigan having a child. The DLC was the conclusion to Origins? My arse.

My actions just didn't feel like they had any consequences. At the conclusion of Merril's attempt to restore the Mirror, my party had been forced to kill the Keeper of the Dalish, and then roundly massacre the full Dalish clan. Nobody mentioned this ever again, not least Merril, who even commented that she didn't like going back amongst her people, when we were walking through the ghost town of their camp.

I enjoyed the game itself enough to sink hours into it. I'll probably re-play it too, to see if the bits that looked broken (Isabella, Merril) were just a weird glitch I ran into. But the ending and the added bonus of Witch Hunt appearing to be a complete waste of time (And £5.99 for the privilege, no less) has left a fairly bitter taste in my mouth.

[Hawgh]

The narrative as a whole was wildly improved over Origins: More compelling story, characters and villains. I felt much more involved with and attached to the events of DA2.
I really liked the more, for lack of a better expression, "animated" animations(particularly the Mage animations).
The new setup of talents is everything that I want it to be, and skills being absent doesn't bother me; Origins essencially had the conversation skill, and then the combat aptitude skill that had any impact on gameplay whatsoever, and those were pretty much mandatory to take.

I'm not entirely sure on the handling of the companion armors; On one hand, it's definitely better than Origins, where all my guys ended up being pretty much indistinguishable(not helped by the sore lack of armor variety in that game). But if I could be just a tad more involved in the equipment of my companions, that would be nice.

The tendency in combat for people to either drop dead, or explode in a shower of giblets is a bit excessive, and gets annoying after a while.

Combat being built almost entirely around waves of easily vanquished mooks also got bit monotonous.

I really liked the ending, assuming of course that there is a follow-up game coming up; Something that you guys could stand to be a little more divulging about.

The level design got annoying, what with the immensely poorly obfuscated reuse of art assets, especially in circumstances where it made no sense whatsoever; I didn't mind returning to the same place a couple of times, but it gets annoying when the mine in the mountain, the tunnel in the mountain, the chambers under the city, the cave in the mountain and the cave on the coast was all entirely unaltered reuses of the same asset. Especially grievous were those rock-block doors that were shoved in here and there where only part of the asset was used. Wildly aggravating.

Really liked companion banter(so far proving to be perhaps the greatest aspect of this series), but would like to be able to make more "smalltalk" myself. I feel favourable towards the speech wheel, but miss conversation skills of earlier Bioware games(pretty much the typical DnD skills of bluff/diplomacy/intimidate. The coercion skill of Origins felt pointless and mandatory, so I guess I prefer the absence of conversation skills over having a single one.)

Numerically, I'd put the game down somewhere in the 8-9 range(I would place Origins in the high 7s, Awakening at a dead 9).

Modifié par Hawgh, 28 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[wiskeylab]

main thing i disliked, was not the re-use of maps, not the lack of companion armor and weapons but the fact that there were no real options about where to take the game, we had to choose to side with mages or templars only. tbh i couldn't bring myself to side with the templars, bethany was still alive and i was in a romance with merill. anders well in all honesty next time i play through i'm gonna kill him as soon as possible just out of principal. but yeah the lack of options about who to side with really pissed me off. i just decided to play da:o for the 12th time lol, i hope da3 will be better, assuming they make #3. still the possibility that the champion of kirkwall will meet the hero of fereldan whether for good or ill seems like something worth waiting for.

Modifié par wiskeylab, 29 mars 2011 - 12:20 .

[wiskeylab]

my mate suggested that i wait until da2 came down in price, i should have listened to him. but at least with the signature edition i got a lot of stuff ( not neccesarily worth having ) but, sod it i'm going back to origins. i don't think i'll be playing it through for the 2nd time, it physically hurts me 5/10 i give it and that's coz there is potential for add-ons only.

[ArchDragonDranovis]

Between Origins and DA2, I am going to be very skeptical of a very good DA3. At first, yes, DA2 seemed like a very refreshing change of pace, but it just isn't working out now that I'm experiencing the story for the second time. Almost done with my Mage playthrough (watched someone else go all the way through the game first.) and I find the story could use some heavy refinement. Along with the Gameplay.

Gameplay: First off, I had a hard time going through Origins, as I couldn't stand the fact that EVERYTHING seemed to run on a form of slow-motion. So when DA2 came out, I got excited that the combat was so much more fast paced. Helps with the realism a little bit. But that was the only improvement. Exploration got chumped. No more "let's see what's down this passageway." Just another "Oh no. a collapsed passageway, it seems our path has been predeterminded."
Another problem was the levelling up. I liked that it did get better in a way. But it seemed to have many hidden failings. One of them being that, as a warrior, I should be allowed to use any kind of fighting style, as that's what a warrior is good at, fighting. The rogue needs to gain a more roguish fighting style, as in they can pick up abilities where they literally trip their opponents and/or give loads of below the belt attacks. The mage is fine in the sense of fighting stlyes, but it wouldn't hurt to go into expansions of magic. Only the force mage was new to DA2. All the other spells were more or less already there.
Companion armor is a common complaint here, so I will only add one thing; If you aren't going to change it, at least change their appearance over the timeline. And add a bonus effect onto it for every act they survive. Then it wouldn't just be a bland costume they wear for a play or something.
Companion levelling is the biggest problem here though in my opinion. Hawke is the only one really allowed to get freedom in his level ups. Everyone else has only six (five if you are the sibling without a specialization tree)
development trees. I know it's still a lot, but two of those trees will never get used because of how pointless they are for the character. If everyone had access to all eight/nine trees like Hawke, I would've felt like my party could actually be wide-ranged. Instead, If you're playing a mage, You get Carver and Fenris, two guys who use two-handed weapons. Guess who wins? Fenris, because he has abilities that Carver doesn't have, making Carver a pointless ripoff. Thanks for proving how weak the Hawke family is unless you are the champion Hawke.

Companions: The biggest failing here is how the characters don't really have conversations unless they are having one of their infamous mid-life crisises. The other, of course, being the lack of feeling for Hawke's own family. Bethany was my favorite family member. She was also the smartest, which makes no sense as you see her get plowed by the ogre that she tried to fight like Carver (the party idiot). Carver I liked the least, He only had a petty issue with you, being as you were the older sibling. He doesn't have any sense of preserving you as family. Carver only saw you and Bethany as weights that dragged everyone down as you were apostates. Your mother was done decently, but there were no "family" level conversations. Only Hawke and mom, or Hawke and sibling, or Hawke and the horrible uncle Gamlen. Really, the only one who should have been hated was Gamlen, yet I end hating Carver more, the second I end up in Kirkwall, because he is a mega-wimp with a mega-I-hate-all-mages-attitude-because-my-siblings-consumed-all-the-good-parts-of-my-life. He had a good story, but it doesn't do anything for him in terms of character development. He doesn't even get close to nicer to me even when I told him I would listen to his ideas as we need to stick together as brothers.
Companion stories were good and bad at the same time. Fenris was a very shocking one, to say the least. But the fact that his hatred exceeds over everything makes him a two-sided character. One half is hate all that is related to magic. The other half is what do I do since I obviously can't count on anyone to help me out as I'm obviously from Tevintir. So when you do help him out, he gets all surprised. When you support him he acts like it's normal for you hate what he hates (I would want to know why Hawke hated mages, for instance.), and when you stand against him, he acts like you are a Tevintir Magister. You can't win with him. Aveline seems more human to me though. I don't know why, but maybe it's how she comes to terms with her own problems. She isn't asking Hawke to FIX a personal problem, she's asking him to help her guards aid Kirkwall. Merril's story could have used more open dalish discrimination in their ranks, Merril could have gone over how they all found out she was a blood mage, and we definitely could have gotten a more human response from her, like "How can these people hate a person so much when they are only trying to help?" Instead Merril acts like she is a child neglected by her parents and can't come to terms with why she was left all alone in the streets. Varric was there for the ride, and his problems only included what was more or less established the entire game, his brotherly love/rivalry with Bartrand. The fact that Varric is narrating makes him seem more believable somehow. So he was rather well done. Anders's quests though, were rather annoying. He had a very interesting problem. Was it capitalized on? Nope, it was merely used as an excuse for Anders to blow up the chantry, even if you do help him gain some control over Vengence. Isabella was a fun person, but her lack of attention to significant problems lessened her realism. What kind of a friend/ally does not notice her comrades' problems? She was completely selfish, she may have looked out for others, but that's because she liked them and didn't want to LOSE them. I don't like selfishness to an extreme like that, so it could be the culprit behind my heavy criticism of Isabella, FYI. At any rate, My overall feel on companions? They can definitely be vastly improved.

[Jarlof Seoul]

Just finished the game tonight. I played it with huge doubts. Love DAO, and was surprised at how awesome DAII turned out. I originally felt angry at being limited to playing Garrett Hawke but I ended up loving the game. The combat was mind-blowing. Playing a Mage was never so much fun in any CRPG. Sandal--oh my he was just as awesome! Very sad I could nto romance Aveline. i tried like heck. Even resisted temptation to pursue Isabela. Aveline better because like Morrigan, she was hard to get, even if 180 degrees different. Great story and emotional depth with companions. This is my initial review. I will write more in the next several weeks. Getting some sleep after two weeks of powering through. Great job Bioware! That's a lot coming from a Morrigan DR OGB dad Warden player from DAO and WH.

[Katilina]

Thank you very much for this thread
Having just completed my first playthrough last night I figured it would be an opportune time to put up my review. I know a few other people hold off until multiple playthroughs but I figure if my opinions change then and now I'll add it later.

First off I played both DA:O and DA2 on the PS3. I have 100+ hours on my DA:O save and I have 70 hours in DA2, all possible quests completed in each including DLC (save for the ones that werent available to me via losing party members/not playing Awakenings). For DA2 I went as Female Hawk, Warrior class, and tried to play neutral/good.

Also I positively LOVE DA:O, one of my top favorite games, and DA2 is great but to be honest does feel like it lacked something overall. I'm having a hard time nailing down specifically what it is so maybe that's a plus point in and of itself. But it does feel a bit I dont know, off. Also I know some of the points I have will probably have already been said,  but in that case- if a lot of people have an issue with something there's a good chance it will be fixed later on .

What I liked about DA2:

-Though it seems to have made others a little angry, I did enjoy the fact that Hawke talked.
As others have put it 'ME2ing' the main protagonist was a nice change. While my Warden will ALWAYS hold a higher place in my heart than Hawke, one of the things that bugged me in the first Dragon Age was the way conversations went. Here are these characters, party members or quest related people, pouring their souls out with well scripted dialog... and My Warden just stood there, blank look 95% of the time on her face, and responds with 'silence'. Obviously choices are being made on my part and said party members/quest people are 'hearing' things (my sentences of response), but I never did, and it always kept me from getting completely immersed in the game. It was nice to have vague ideas of what Hawke would say, choosing something, then hearing witty banter or a threat reducing 'calm down!' being said.

-The cameos and references to the save file I imported from DA:O.
Let me just put this out there: my husband, who was sitting next to me while I played, literally became furious with me when I got so VERY VERY excited to see a note on my writing desk from King Alistar of Fereldan asking for Hawke to come see him at the Keep. And he became even more angry when I squealed like a tweenaged schoolgirl who just saw Bieber for the first time when Alistar said it was time to get back to 'the old ball and chain' who 'doesnt scare him, even if she did kill the archdemon'. Seeing Zevran and Lelianna was also a nice touch, given it seems I made the best choices in DA:O. I didnt kill off either of them, and sent Lelianna back to the chantry at the end of DA:O so she could be a seeker at this point in time, instead of the other options that were set out her. Which is why I dont have as much a problem as others with how the story played out. I also loved how the Fereldan refugees talked of the Hero in passing; it was nice to know they cared. However in this same notion, this is why there is a negative coming up later that will reference this.

-Upgraded battle system.
MUCH better than DA:O. I enjoyed the fast pace the battle system had this time around. To me, it felt as if there was more user imput. While yes you could just sit there and button mash away at enemies until they were dead- it was better than just hitting X once then walking away to make a sandwich while The Hero of Fereldan laid waste to everything on screen. However, on that same note I did have an issue with the battle system that I will address right now. I threw my sword up too many times in the 'YAY WE WON' motion before the battle was even over. It would have at least been nice to have a bit of auto target in the sense of hitting X and moving to another enemy and continue your button mashing/spell casting. I did like the skill trees- even if by the time I finished the game I was just putting points into whatever because its time to speed it up- Meredith was through that gate and its time for jerkface to get her comeupance.

-Inventory system.
While others have complained about not being able to equip armor onto our allies; I for one welcome the change. By the end of DA:O Morrigan and Wynne looked almost exactly the same. Both were wearing some vestments that were yellow in color and a flowerpot on their heads. It was nice to have striking visual differences between my party members this time around. Even moreso when Anders changed his entire color scheme after I finished the quest where he planted his bomb. It was also a lot easier to keep track of what to throw into junk and what not to. "What I got some mage armor, GOLD! Dual Daggers and no Isabela? SCRAPPED." Instead of having to check to see which pair of pants had an extra +1 statistic to constitution I could just get rid of everything not related to the warrior class and focus on upgrading my teammates weapons, rings, belts, and amulets. Very nice. However it was a bit annoying over how little money you got overall for things you sold. Given, I never really bought weapons (negating The Black Imporium items, which half the time I couldnt even afford).

-The characters.
While DA:O party members will always hold a special place in my heart, it seems I'll have to slide them over a bit for most of the companions from DA2 as well. Being that I played a female Hawke Warrior, I romanced Fenris. Yet still I sided with the mages on this playthrough; and it brought a big warm fuzzy feeling when he talked to me in the Gallows Courtyard. "Here I am, about to defend these mages in hopeless battle. You lead me to some strange places Hawke." "I'll take you to stranger places than this, just watch." It felt very well done to have this slave, who hated mages with all of his soul- overcome that for his love for me. And then the foreshadowing (if not intended it was still nice) of them 'going off to stranger places' was a nice tie in with the ending that Varric told Cassandra about them staying together to wherever they went. It'd be nice to see that tied into DLC (maybe a 'where they went?' sort of thing, though obviously that would have to be branched out to all Love Interests possible). There wasnt a real party member I hated; they all seemed well done. Aveline was a little 'meh' but enjoyable. Even Sebastian's (empty) threats to come back and kick mine, Anders, and Kirkwalls asses with whatever sort of lame army Starkhaven would have at this point because Ander's went all insane and blew up the Chantry felt needed and right. The poor prince did just lose the closest thing to a family he had left. And, given I played the human noble playthrough in DA:O I can understand that kind of hurt.

In my playthrough I didnt get a chance to befriend Isabela before the end of Act 2- so I cant judge her entirely. However, it would have been nice to have conversations with party members as it was in DA:O. I mean I could only have 'cut scene' conversations with my team if they had a quest I needed to finish. If I tried to talk to them in another way (like one would have with Lelianna to hear some stories or Zevran to know about past kills) I was greeted to a 'Lead the way Hawke' or 'I'm right behind you'. It was sort of sad, but didnt hamper my experience. Also, per usual, the wandering around banter was well done and wonderful. Kudos to the writers in that respect.

-Reactive quests.
Overall loved these! Just a few points: I enjoyed the fact that the mage Grace I allowed to go free in a quest in act 2 came back to fight against me in act 3, because she was still found out and brought to the circle. She despised me, and in truth, while misplaced I undestood it. No matter how much money I gave Evelina in Act 2, she still gave into blood magic to protect herself in act 3- so I had to take her down. Also the fact that with the time progression my companions did seem to flesh out via their quests. I helped Aveline become guard captain, get married, and kick butt of the man she ousted (even if I never got the armor upgrade from him due to a glitch). Fenris dealt first with his old masters apprentice, then dealt with Denarius himself, all the while coming to the conclusion that he was alone (except he did have me ), Merrill came to grips with her obsession with her mirror with dire consequences. Anders... well yeah we watched him spiral into terrorist pretty nicely. I would love to see this implimented more in the future.

What I disliked about DA2:
- I pined more for my Warden than I did for Hawke, and the Warden wasnt even the main character.
As I stated earlier, I was so happy with the cameos of DA:O characters and references to my Hero. But at the same time, I got more excited for that then I did for much of what Hawke did. I understand; Hawke is just a single person who happened to have a hand in the saving/destrcution of Kirkwall etc etc. But I... actually felt bad when Cassandra said 'Hawke is gone' and I was kinda 'meh' but then rounded it out with 'just like the Warden' and I actually got a pit in my stomach because I was worried about the Hero! It's a point to be made when you can be more worried about someone who is spoken about in passing conversatons, then a character you've just spent 60 hours playing with. Dont get me wrong, I do like Hawke. But... well just not as much as the Warden.

-The repeat dungeons/areas.
I got so sick of the repetative areas. I couldnt complain enough about my umpteenth time going through one of the 'back alleys' of Kirkwall to kill some Silent Sisters, or deal with a companion side quest, or deal with the poisonous gas someone thought was the Qunari explosion powder. Or the fourteenth time I had gone to Sundermount and into the caverns to do something. And the worst part was that the map rubbed in the fact you were 'back here again' by showing the entire area. Then path B was just blocked off with a rock wall or was a door you couldnt interact with. Would it really have been that hard to create other small areas like there were in DA:O and cycle those in instead? Even the random times I'd get attacked while traveling from Redcliff to Denerim I knew one of maybe 8 possible areas were coming up, but they never felt THAT overused because I wasnt constantly going back to them all the time. For. Every. Quest.

And in that same sense, just putting it out there- there was an overall lack of personality when it came to enviroments. I can still remember running down the dusty trail of Redcliff, passing by the waterfall as I neared the taven. Turn to the left you can watch as the water wheel on the blacksmiths building turned around and around- then run over the small bridge to the edge of the lake and look up to see the shadowy towers that was Castle Redcliff. Yes, I understand, Kirkwall only has a handful of areas actually inside of it- but there could have been numerous outlaying areas you could go to. Not just Sundermount, Bone Pit, Wounded Coast, and well throw in an Antivan camp or a Slavers den here and there (STILL REHASHED AREAS). Nothing felt original, and while I could describe each area in detail it wouldnt be because they caught my attention- it would be because I went there twenty times.

-Elves are apparently crossbred with Aliens now.
What the hell? Since when in the last oh, I dont know, 1-2 years since my Hero when jaunting around Fereldan did elves get their sexy time on with aliens to the point when they got giant anime eyes that I could put teacups on? I did NOT like their redesign at all. I mean, had you not gone out of your way to tell me Zevan was the elf I was speaking to he coulda been Elvan Jhon Doe #5 and it wouldnt have been annoyed in the least. Instead he was supposed to be the elf I spent 100 hours with last game, and he looked HORRIBLE. All elves did, and eventhough I liked Merrill, she was adorably cute, I just kept getting creeped out by the eyes. I liked it better in DA:O when they looked more, as bad as it sounds, human. I mean they didnt need to be redesigned that badly just to point out the difference was deeper between humans and elves other than pointy ears.

Lelianna was definately improved, graphically wise- however.

-Broken quests.
Well glad I never got to save that Noble's daughter on the wounded coast. Guess her 'maidenhood' as he proclaimed got ransacked and now she's a slave. HA. Guess Hawke just didnt have the time to do that one. Also, I was not very happy that I saw Merrill's final companion quest dialog at the beginning of Act 3. I hadnt even killed Marenthari but she was already wailing, and I was 'fwuh?'. It made more sense later but yeah. These are minor however, and could be fixed with patches. Just something that left a bitter taste.

-Leveling up/checking equipment/friendship status with companions.
One of my biggest complaints, the fact I had to go in and out of the Hawke mansion SO many times just to check their rings against ones I just picked up. Or having to level them all up 3 at a time, or to check how my friendship was going with each. I definately liked DA:O's entire party system, instead of 3 at a time. Please, PLEASE, change it back to letting us see our characters status at all times. It would have probably cut down on my downtime by a few hours; which would have helped keep me immersed.


What I'm mostly neutral on-
-The Story, All Acts.
It wasnt bad, and it wasnt THE BEST EVER. I do understand, the way this story folded out it was moreso Hawke being caught up in the situations brought around to him/her dependant on what companions you helped, what sides you took with random people in quests, and another handful of things. In DA:O your character HAD to do something because Alistar and her were the only Gray Wardens left to fix this problem. If they didnt do something, the world was gonna be proper screwed. With DA2, Hawke was here because of the Blight. She had no real personal reason to get caught up in these things and yet she did what she had to do.

Act 1- Varric offers to sell her into their Deep Roads expedition so she could make some money for her now penniless family to help them get a leg up on the pile. She buys in, and in the long scheme of things due to this ends up screwing the entire city of Kirkwall over later.
 
Act 2- My Hawke didnt understand why the Arishok would only deal with her, in my Hawke's mind she was just someone who had done ok for herself- nothing special, but if this is what her Viscount wanted; who was she to argue? Then after having the Arishok turn on everyone and demand the people to give into the Qun; she again, did what she had to do to restore order.

Act 3-Tthings are deterorating again so I played her as I always had- a neutral party that only finally took a side when Meredith went after my sister. And that was the last straw- no one messes with the last family member I have. Not so long as I'm around here. Which is also why I did find the end sneer she gave to Cullen so rewarding, a final "BACK OFF" so to speak. And even then stuff didnt work out as she planned I'm sure (having to leave the place you've called home for the last 7/10 years because the **** hit the fan, must be pretty lame). Hawke filled the role nicely of the reluctant protagonist. This is just how my playthrough ended, for others of course it could be different. Dont get me wrong, I did enjoy the story. Even if the third act seemed a bit rushed and made me pine for a fourth act- the third never felt completely finished.

And yes, I do understand that this story itself seems to be more of a lead up to a big climactic third game- so I'm not judging it that hard. It's like a midway point, something we all had to play through to make the (hopefully?) third game more enjoyable. If Hawke is to return in this unannounced third game, it would make me, at least, happy to know her entire  backstory  because I played it. As opposed to having it hinted at in dialog, then reading a codex. And obviously, what Hawke did here had a major affect on Thedas. Circles seem to be going down, and it seems as if the people themselves will be their undoing- not the hordes of darkspawn that the Hero dealt with to keep everyone safe.

-Different look
Minus the elves- everything, graphically wise, looked better but that was to be expected. If you had made a new game, and didnt include updated graphics, I get the feeling a decent portion of people would have felt gyped. While the areas were recycled they were at least detailed enough to make them seem fresh (in the beginning at least, I really didnt care how much time got put into making the ships on the wounded coast look destroyed after the sixth time going there). I also enjoyed what little visual details were put into the game. Examples being the Hawke insignia being put over the Kirkwall one in the Hanged Man, Darktown, etc etc. The statue that was put up in the Docks after I single handedly took down the Arishok. Those little things at least gave me a small smile when I saw them. I am, obviously, neutral on the Qunari hornification.


But anyhow- this is getting long, but these are my most nagging points. Overall I enjoyed DA2, though not as much as DA:O. I get the feeling it will grow on me with subsequent playthroughs, though I'll probably only play it through 2 more times since I can romance mostly everyone as whatever sex I choose and there are ONLY 3 classes anyhow. Though, good point for including that, the wide variety of love interests that is.
Overall I'd give the game a strong 7.5 or 8 out of 10.

Modifié par Katilina, 29 mars 2011 - 03:49 .

[Cembrye]

 Hi -

Thank you for soliciting player reviews.  I have played both ME and DA games, plus am also a big BG fan, so I am very familiar with the Bioware RPG worlds.  Having just finished my first play through of DA2, here are my reactions.

I played DAO to death, logging a huge amount of time trying different races, classes, making different storyline choices to see how things worked out. But in ME, and then especially ME2 and DA2, I don't see myself doing this.  In DA2 (as in the ME games) the voice acting for the main character is nice, but it seems to have come at the expense of the RPG depth of the games. And I despise the dialogue wheel.  I liked the old text choices because they allowed for depth, nuance and complexity in the interactions.  The dialogue wheel, except for the key decision points in the story (e.g. side with mages or Templars) doesn't seem to offer too much variety to the impact of the words.  You get to the same place, whether you are saucy or polite.  It feels more rail-like than DAO.

DA2 combat was an improvement, definitely, over DAO.  Thumbs up for making the skill bars and item/potion storage easier.  The only complaint is there seems to be a lack of variety of enemies.

The storyline was good.  Not as epic as DAO - honestly I never grasped both why Kirkwall was such a big deal in the world of Thedas or why the conclusion of the story would have world-breaking impact.  It seemed to be forced down the throat of the reader instead of unfolding organically.  In DAO, you understood why the Blight was such a big deal.  In DA2, a squabble between mages and templars, even if it led to war amongst the nations, seemed a rather mundane thing.

I love Bioware romances in their games.  But in DA2, they seemed to be contrived and short-changed compared to their predecessor DAO.  The music seemed missing.  Again, I blame the dialogue wheel, which seems to force interactions along a relatively few predetermined channels.

One of my biggest disappointments was in how Bioware missed the opportunity to weave together the two DA games in fun ways.  For example, it would have been great to have a cut scene in Lothering at the start showing the Warden coming through - even just his/her boots as they walked.  I was half-expecting this.  King Alistair's appearance in DA2 was also a bit of a let down in staging - he is King after all, not some beggar at the Knight Commander's door.  His appearance in DAO Awakening shows this majesty - in DA2 its completely missing.  The Leliana appearance was okay - but way too brief.  You have so much to ask and you want to see her more, but poof- she is gone.

Overall, I still loved the game though.  The boss fights were nail-biters all along the way - wonderfully balanced.  In 3-4 of the major fights, I had this feeling early on that "there is no way I am going to defeat this boss."  But then I pulled it out.  When you end up laughing and cheering at your computer screen, you know right then that you have earned the price of the game.

To sum up, my complaints are those of an enduring fan of Bioware.  I enjoyed DA2.  But if you make DA3, please please please please take it back in the direction of the old-style RPG.  Lose the dialogue wheel.  And I am happy not to have voiced main characters if it means more depth and choices.

[Rahelron]

I LIKED:

- The Story. Well written and interesting. Nothing to say about this.

- The characters management. In DAO there were only 2 important companions that had a role in the main history (Morrigan and Alistair), in DA2 every character except Merrill and Fenris play an important part at a certain point. Very good.

- The interactions with the companions. This is the best thing that DragonAge has to offer. Just bring back the old gift system.

- Kirkwall. It is a large capital city, a great improvement over Denerim.

- The fact that were added a lot of waepon and armor models. This is great because helps character costumization.

- The fact that the choices don't revolve around good and evil, but around more complicated concepts.

- The new dialogue system, even if not always what you saw on the "dialogue wheel" was coherent with what your character said after your choice.


I DIDN'T LIKE:

- The lack of locations to explore.
- The lack of new monsters.
- The dungeons: playing the same maps over and over is no fun.
- The dungeons' layots: let me choose the route I like, don't force me to take one path locking almost all the doors and the passageways.

- The combat encounters. Every time was the same story: 3 waves of monsters doing the exact the same thing. And the enemy mages?? They had always the same 2 or 3 spells and those spells were too powerful. If they hit one of your party members he was dead. Having to reload just because your party died due to a single spell is no fun at all.

- The romances. More depth please, more dialogues. You also failed in creating interesting female characters this time, at least the ones you could start a love affair with. Morrigan was a whole level above.

- The bugs.

- The DLC policy. After "Return to Ostagar" I'm not going to give you any more money for DLCs. I also think that the Imba equipment that comes from the DLCs ruins the game experience by making the fights too easy. So this time I didn't preorder the game and I didn't buy the Exiled Prince DLC.


I DIDN'T CARE ABOUT:

- The new combat system. I liked the old one more, but combat mechanics are not my main interest as long as fights are interesting and challenging. The new combat animations are great however.

- The console-like boss fights. Again: i liked more the old boss fights but if you think that pleasing the console public is good then go for it, I'm still going to buy the game.

Modifié par Rahelron, 29 mars 2011 - 06:51 .

[wright1978]

Companions

Good: Liked the set of companions on offer. I enjoyed interacting with them more than Origins(despite my fun times with Oghren and Morrigan). Isabela and Varric had me in stitches regularly & party banter as a whole was varied and fun. Aveline and Merrill worked well as straight foils for these characters rapier wit.

The downside was that I would like deeper interactions, especially romances. I romanced Isabela & thoroughly enjoyed every second of it. She was one of the reasons i was hooked into seeing how the story and the romance would unfold. Still though I really think there should have been much more chats between us duelling and her declaration of love.

Also it bugged me a bit too that I was with Isabela and then Merrill thew herself at me without even mentioning Isabela, which was odd as the cut scenes showed them being very friendly. I ended up having to put her off with some nonsense about the keeper rather than saying , hey i’m with Isabela.

Story itself was great. Enjoyed the rollercoaster ride. I liked the fact there was a lot of grey choices, lot less of good two shoes/evil polarity. Varric as a storyteller was a cool addition.

Only thing’s i would take issue with are

Mother’s death was very good but i do wish they had thrown in a Kaidan/Ashley choice where you can either go save Mother or go save your sister/brother. Would also have made up for big gap where your sister/brother is completely absent.

As other have mentioned you basically get to play 3 years of a ten year game. People shouldn’t over sell and then under deliver. I’d prefer ten short acts rather than three big ones with huge gaps between.

Environment
Having a voiced character was great
All the cut scenes were terrific
Combat improved. I dound it both challenging and yet not frustrating. I had to work my socks off to beat the big bosses but could relax and hack and slash at street thugs.
Inventory/skills trees seemed to be more user friendly.
I was happy armouring myself and just accessorising the others.
Only downside was the re-used environments. Surely with a little extra work they could have been disguised better and made seem a little bit more unique.

Overall I preferred it to Origins. Think I felt more immersed as Hawke. Now i’m just hoping there will be plenty of DLC to carry on Hawke’s adventures. Hopefully set on board Isabela's ship sailing into one adventure after another.

[CaolIla]

I finished the game once and I'm now in the second act of my second playthrough, so I want to tell what I think:

A few things that I really didn't like:
- too linear

- there are some quests where there are absolutely NO consequences regardless what you do during the quest (shepherding wolves...)

- I don't want to say "Reuse" of dungeons because there are just too few. I had the feeling there where 3 dungeons all in all and since the game just plays in the city and three arenas outside the city it gets boring as hell. Mass Effect had the decency that at least the main quests where totally different, but not in Dragon Age 2... It's not a step back, it's a jump back, shame on you.

- I didn't try every Robe for the mage but in the whole game I encountered 4 different outfits and I count the Champion vest and the totally stupid use of the chantry robe (black emporium robe).
So all in all I played through the first two acts with like 20 different robes and 2 different designs... wow bioware.

- I don't like that I can't customize my teammates

- not playable quests (Who needs rescuing? It's Jowan's Intention all over again)

- not removable runes... SUCKS if you can't change the gear of your comrades... brilliant idea, especially if you remember that you get the good runes in act 3.

- No real Impact of your choices in DA:O. The only thing it was good for were most times cheap cameos that (Alistair Oo) made me vomit.

- The ending was a real disappointment, not the fights or the clash of templars and mages but the "conclusion" of the story... and there really wasn't a conclusion, just a cliffhanger.

- the loot was really disappointing and especially the "junk" stuff was so senseless... instead of carrying around 20 different items I don't care about the least just give me the money they are worth... 5 silver Oo

- the first memorable loot i got was the sword of the arishok... at the beginning of act 3... wow!

- I became to lazy to check the gear of my companions and me after a while because it makes no difference... you find 50 staffs in one Act and they are all the same and the same goes for the other stuff.... no difference.

- most bosses just gave 20 silver as loot... how rewarding!

- Was there one Architect in Kirkwall since everything looks the same?

- the resell value of the stuff is a joke, if I were Hawke I would beat the crap out of every merchant who's trying to rip me off, which would lead to a deserted city. One of my favourite facts: you spend 9 sovereigns for the 3 qunari sword you buy and as a reward you get 3 sovereigns for 10 swords if you choose the money, rewarding Oo

- Sandal is NOTHING like the sandal in the first part, he looks creepy and he sounds like simple Jack, not like timmy anymore.

- Zevran looks like a drag queen

- The tactic setting is really stupid since you always have to start over from scratch you can't just change "when health <25%" to "<50%" no, you have to reset the whole tactic.

- The shopping is stupid, I don't buy from sacks, I buy from people. I think it's just like that so Hawke beats the crap out of the sack for being ripped off and not out of the merchant.

- "Lady Elegant" as a name... wow

- the first year in Kirkwall could have been interesting, but we don't get to play it... nice, just the "Oh hi Worthy, the player doesn't know you but rabble rabble we know each other rabble rabble lazyness" stuff is lazy. I don't want to hear about interesting stuff in a game, I want to play it.

- the complete waste of interesting characters like Flemeth, I really thought it was going somewhere but it wasn't, nice!

- Carver is a pain in the ass, he is the most unlikeable character I've ever met in a RPG, and I hoped I could kill him during the final battle but that was not possible, I have to replay the game just to see him die in the deep roads... and I will... I hate him that much. If I want to see a character whose sole purpose is to cry, I watch Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day again.

- why include Gear that lets the enemy drop better equipment if it's still junk? I don't want to know what you find if you DON'T have that kind of gear equipped.

- where can I see what bonus an item set gives me? Why can't I find the option to read the info of gear or was that too much work to include?


I could write a lot more but I want to conclude what the real problem with the game was:
It feels rushed, it feels lazy created and everything but the characters feels like something that was created with no hint of interest or love.

If this is what I can expect from future BW releases, then the only thing left to say is: Welcome in the world of mediocrity! Since this game is called Dragon Age 2 I feel cheated and like Bioware just took a dump on my face, I wouldn't be as disappointed as I am if it were called differently, but if you want to cash in on a name, do it without disgracing the name.

At the moment I'm not even sure if I'm going to finish the second playthrough and that's so sad if I think of the fact that Steam says I spend nearly 600 hours (!!!) on Dragon Age... I Loved the crap out of that game and Dragon Age 2 just makes me want to play DA:O to remember how it's done right.

The worst Bioware game I've ever played (BG, BG Add On, BG 2, BG 2 Add On, Kotor, ME, ME2, DA:O, NWN 2 (Or does it count as Obsidian, I don't know) and some I bet I'm forgetting about).

Edit: I forgot two important flaws, the removed tactical Overview... so stupid I can't find words or it, if you want to make the game harder, make the game harder and the not the controls weaker.
Second point: There was hardly ANY mission that was longer than 30 minutes, even the main quest just became longer because you had to travel between all three areas of the game or the boss fights took 15 minutes. That's sad AND lazy.

Edit2: Bioware do you know a german Developer called "Radon Labs"? They created Drakensang a really good game that was successfull. They created a second part with more voiceover and they thought they improved it, but they didn't. It was shorter, it was rushed, the story was not compelling and it was so bugged, that half of the buyers couldn't play the game. Since they didn't care about the community they never fixed the mayor flaws but tried to make an Add on for this unsuccessfull game. To be fair the Add on came out but by that time Radon Labs was already bankrupt and everyone knew that it will be bug ridden and never be fixed so nobody bought it.
Just a reminder what CAN happen, I don't think it will but not because I have the hope Bioware will do it better but EA has more money and Bioware more games than one. 

Edit3: yeah again.... one last thing that pisses me off: Sten says they cut out the tongues of their mages... but no says DA2 they just sew their mouths... but WHY do they do it if the mages still can talk !? it makes absolutely NO sense. It's so stupid it actually physically hurts me.

Modifié par CaolIla, 29 mars 2011 - 10:07 .

[Lemmy Kil Hawke]

I finished the game once, and started again, so i´ve played for about 50hrs.

 It took me a long time to immerse myself in the story, but in the end i think its quite good ( you know, the start of a legend and stuff).

I dont mind the fact that the story is limmited to Kirkwall, but the way you built the city is not the best.

Where is the sense of a vibrating, living, city with a long history (thousands of years)?

The streets are so empty, like 10 npcs per area?

The story occurs in a period of 10 years. There are no changes in the city (at least none noticable in my opinion), the characters dont age. Take Fenris estate... after many years the bodies are still lying on the floor.

Your actions dont reflect in the city, like in Fable 2 and 3 (i know its a very different game, but you could take a lot of ideias from the way they built their game world).

Another thing, five dungeons or so for the entire game!? Two  or three house models!?
 
You should have done better, expecially with such a small game world.

That said, its a good game, but not your best for sure. 

I almost forgot...what about the broken quests?

Modifié par Lemmy Kil Hawke, 29 mars 2011 - 11:34 .

[Xin Rong]

I didn't know about Bioware before i came to know Dragon Age. I was thinking of a RPG game and i did a search on GameSpot and DA:O caught my attention with such high rating.

I played DA:O and that time was really really awesome. Memorable characters, memorable choices and moments, clear goal directed and a world to explore. A very very good game indeed. I finished every Origin Story and completed the game twice (more if my schedule allows).

When it comes to DA II, i had great expectation, i don't care about the graphic/lack of customization, i want another great and memorable story.

But DA II's story failed me. I expected an epic story, but Hawke is simply "not that important". Anders, Lyrium, Varic, Meredith (especially Meredith) outshines Hawke.

I can endure "reused dungeon"(since it just lowers my replay interest), i can endure "what? i can only equip Hawke?", i can endure the "Kirkwall again???"...but i couldn't accept the poor story.

In the game, I need motivation to move on, to know what's going to happen, something that related to my destiny. At the beginning of the game, i thought my goal is clear, protect my family and make them happy by pursuing riches or other means.

Ok, my brother is gone, that's fine. What??? You take away my sister?? And...later.... what? My mother too? What have they done to deserve that? The game simply kills the clear cut goal of the game from the start. In DA:O, you have clear cut goal even your family got killed (human origin), kill the archdemon. But in DA II, who cares being a champion? My family isn't getting happier!

Then, Bethany character development is good until Act I. In Act II, her response to seeing Hawke again is so disappointing. (i was expecting a hug or emotional encounter).... Then the final Act, still so emotionless!


To summarize:

Pros:
Dialogue wheel is good
Some good but could be better characters (Varic Isabela Bethany etc)
Improved combat
Some challenging boss
Several memorable and unexpected moments (death of Mother, Anders' stupidity)

Cons
Boring dungeon
Linear and unattractive story (overall)
Bugged quest
Lack of focus on Champion
Bad item/codex interface (compared to DA:O)

[hiei_86]

just things I don't like:
-lack of locations and dungeon maps
-lack of customizability in companions
-the enemies that arrives from nowhere in 3 waves

I love the rest of the game as it is

(sorry, for my english...)

[Papa Lente]

 So first, of all. I never had the opportunity to play Baldur's gate. My favourite computer games have been Zelda 'A Link to the past' , 'The Ocarina of Time', 'Chrono Trigger', 'Dead Space', 'Grand Theft Auto San Andreas', 'Gears of War 2' and, of course Dragon Age Origins. I should also state that Dragon Age Origins is probably the best video game I have ever played. It is the only one that genuinely moved me and stopped me in my tracks.

So, on to DA2:

Good things - 

GRAPHICS:
Much better. Graphic change style did not offend me.

LEAD CHARACTER:
I appreciated that the story focused on your character's journey. Funnily enough felt quite topical to me, considering what's going on in the world right this minute. It was great to hear him speak.

Arishok Storyline. 
Anything Qunari related. It just adds a different element. And they are fit! But what happened to the female Qunari. Was looking forward to that!

Aveline:
I liked her. Good character. Ending up annoying her a lot, but she was the strongest of the bunch.

Varric:
Charming.

COMBAT: Much more reactive and satisfying. First time playing as a rogue and thoroughly enjoyed it. Fighting animations are fantastic.

CONVERSATION WHEEL
Felt good to know what tone my reaction was setting, as I felt that was unclear in DAO.

STAR SYSTEM ON INVENTORY:
At a glance, I knew what was a higher tier. I liked that.

MUSIC:
Stunning.

FLEMETH:

Never bad to see Flemeth, she provided the only compelling performance in the entire game! 

TEMPLARS V MAGES
Enjoyed the back and forth with Orsino and Meredith. 

Bad things:

CHARACTERS:
Huge lack of character development. Didn't care when Hawke's Mum was murdered, as I had hardly any big moments to interact with her. 

Bethany was great (i played as a rogue), but was snatched away so early on, I felt cheated, as I was left with a bland group of people. When Zevran made an appearance, I was over the moon! But it also reminded me how dry the characters on my team were in comparison. If you have a great group of characters in the initial game, you either bring them back, or create some characters that will blow them out of the water. None of the new characters could go toe to toe with Sten, Alistair, Morrigan, Zevran and Leliana and come out on top.

ROMANCE OPTIONS:
So boring! Morrigan was sexy, as was Zevran, as was Leliana, even Alistair was okay. They had charisma and charm. The closest you guys came for me was Varric, and he wasn't even a romance option. It would have been great to have a 'Sten' type character (in other words a gruff hunk of a guy') and someone as glaringly stunning as morrigan to contend with. There was no one. I hated Fenris because he just looked like a budget Bowie (who I love!) and Merril was sweet, but I had no interest in deflowering her! Isabel had the body, but again, no real chance to interact.
And as for the love scenes....where did the tops of and sexy music go, I don't want porn, but that was a really great touch in DAO.

MAPS:
Why such a lack of variety in comparison to Dragon Age Origins? Did you guys break the bank with the first budget? If so, please tell those fools at EA to wise up and let you branch out. In fact, tewll qhoever made that decision to keep the area limited - it was the WRONG DECISION.

LACK OF BIG  MOMENTS AND STORY.
In Dragon Age One , we had the joining ceremony, the murder of the wardens, Witherfang and the dalish, the arch demon,  morrigan's secret plan, oghren's Lesbian wife and the whole brood mother saga, alistair's history and possible coronation and so on. It was just epic! Felt like there were so many more big moments and cut scenses that just made you think, 'this is powerful stuff!'. I don't know if you guys chaged the writers, but again, there was such a lack of detail and drama and scale. I literally sat there for a good 30 mins in DAO when Morrigan dropped her bomb, just thinking to myself 'wtf - how could she do this to me, and what the HELL  am I going to do now?'. 

LACK OF CROSS PARTY CUSTOMISATION:
Let me customise and kit out my team. It is fun!

NO MORRIGAN: She was one of the best characters ever, and you didn't even tease us with her appearance in this game. That was a fail. And I sincerely hoped Flemeth would have had more screen time in this game.

DEEP ROADS AGAIN?  Come on, that's three games now. Enough is enough, mix it up.

THE ENDING:
Show me a cut scene with the warden as he/she is now, with their love interest or something. And where has he gone? There's being mysterious, and then there's giving me nothing.


In summary:
I pre-ordered DA2 as soon as it was available.  I am not sure I will do that if there is as DA3. You can't give someone a home cooked feast made with love and care and creativity, and then give them a generic bit of fast food with no real zing. I will wait for this forums review on any future dragon age games before I buy. I told so many people this game was going to be amazing. They all laughed in my face!  

Big moments, scrap that HUGE MOMENTS! Character development in every sense. DIVERSE areas and really compelling story. These are key for DA3.

Come on Bioware! Make me believe again! If you can't do it the way you want it and the suits at the top won't let you? Walk away from the project and do it somewhere else.

Thank you for giving us a forum to air that we know you will be looking at.

Modifié par Papa Lente, 29 mars 2011 - 08:37 .