1012 réponses à ce sujet

[Sattva]

 First and foremost I must tell that the original DA: O game had a kind of integrity that allowed me to almost live in that world for a while.  The companions felt like a family to me They still do They fought with despair and loved with abandon, they had souls!

So when I saw what they did to Zev's face I yelped in horror!
And when that hideous mutant cricket-lizard began making advances, I wish I could kill it (not even "him") like a roach, with a slipper. I was horrified!!!

I found companions in general boring and plain, lacking that special something of the original game. But maybe I just missed the old ones, and no amount of cameos could bring them back.

Probably I just wanted a new adventure with my warden and my old companions, not a new game 

Other than that, I found the new character creator severely limiting - how can I create a generous mouth, for example, if they removed half sliders and those remaining barely move? And the jaw, the jaw! Ugh!

Also, male Hawke, when undressed, displays an awful case of hyperlordosis (saddle back), which made me constantly wish to stretch him
On a positive note I might add that his shoulder/ waist ratio is extremely pleasing to look at 

I liked in general how they made elves and qunaris - now they look genuinely like other races and not just humans of different sizes with pointy ears! Qunaris rock!

The landscapes and cityscapes left me Ahhhh'ing and Wow'ing at every turn. It reminded me of a very atmospheric game, Dark Earth, that also had that feeling of space and height, some post-industrial slums and great vistas. I found vaguely Mesopotamian features to the city with a bit of Tattoin thrown into the mix. Cool!

Loved the light. Every bit of it: the sun, the moon, the glow of the foundry - amazing!

And I also loved how they rendered caves - very beautiful, with slant rays of sun seeping through cracks, tiny luminescent lights on the ceiling, verdure and underground rivers - a lost world!

I was left highly dissatisfied with the way Bioware treated conversations - where's the freedom of speech? Why should I run to some flea-ridden Darktown just to exchange a few lines with that strange man who replaced Anders????!

And what to make of romantic scenes in clothes? What are they? Vestiges from the pre- sexual revolution era? For god's sake, the game is already rated R +18, so why these restrictions? I'm not talking about harrdcore, but couldn't they just leave them the way they were in DA:O?

In general, there were a few good things in the original game that should've stay that way, and not "improved" on.

And finally, I loved a few small sidequests, the touch with the maniac was simple but neat, and of course the hilarious romance of Aveline and her guardsman!

There were no real choices,  those that would affect the game in a major way. And it felt like "Why bother?"

But fighting statues at the end was really epic and awesome; I remember a very-very-very old movie about Sindbad the mariner where a six-armed statue of Vishnu started a fight with the crew and it was very scary to a seven-year-old me! A blast from the past, really!

Overall, the game has its pros and cons but one thing is sure: this eye-candy is NOT Dragon Age: Origins. It does not have a soul.

Modifié par Sattva, 31 mars 2011 - 05:33 .

[SphereofSilence]

[Spoilers]

Likes:

- Blank look of protagonist replaced with communicative facial animations and expressive voice. Also pleasantly surprised by the more movie-like interactions when talking to characters - camera changes to a big variety of angles, more variety of body language and animations, improved facial animations that convey emotions in a more believable way, etc. It's a definite improvement over Origins which I didn't expect. Hope to see this refined even further to the level of Mass Effect 2, where every cutscene and interactions is a 'special snowflake.'

- Single greatest strength of the game is the world, the setting and the choices that revolve around them. It's filled with so many interesting cultures, nations, factions, species, history etc. I find myself reading all lores in the game, from the history of Kirkwall, to the Qunari, Maker, Old Gods, Darkspawn, Grey Wardens, mages, templars, elves, dwarves, magic, demons, etc etc etc. It's a rich fantasy world that I've grown more and more attached to over the years since Origins. What's more, the interactions between all these entities as well as personal connections in your family and party characters made for some morally ambiguous choices in which the player get to make where there are no clear right or wrong answers. This was true in Origins, and is even more so in this installment, as we delve into the politically-charged setting of Kirkwall. Needless to say, I find myself further immersed into a well-thought out world, enjoying every moment of the game's exploration of themes and elements commonly found in many fantasy works such as A Song of Ice and Fire and The Wheel of Time. This is Bioware at it's best.

- There are many more weighty decisions in this game, and they affect your progress in some really fantastic ways--some of them subtle, some of them not. Plot threads are tied up in a number of ways, depending on what character you side with, if any, and potential future paths are then opened or closed. Even your initial choice of class influences certain aspects of your party composition.

- There were many loose threads in the game that I’m just dying to know more about. Examples are: What’s up with Flemeth? What is she exactly? How does she know what she knows? What are her motives? What’s her ultimate goal? What about Old God Baby and Morrigan? What is Sandal really? Where does he come from and what’s his role in the future? When will the Qunari invade? What is Sten’s role in the future? As well as Zevran with the Antivan Crows? Will the Tevinter Imperium interfere now that the rest of Thedas is having civil war between Templars and Mages? These are but a few examples.

- Like that Bioware deviate from the usual storytelling technique by adopting the framed narrative structure. The “story” is fairly low-key, which I personally consider a plus. Whereas the hero of the first game was tasked with raising armies and saving the world, Hawke has more important things to do – raising money to join an expedition to plunder the Deep Roads, moving up in the world, and slowly transforming from a poor refugee into a wealthy and influential citizen.

- There were hidden clues that observant players may be able to figure out what it really means. For example, it was revealed only at the end that Orsino has been in association with Quentin the mad mage who killed Hawke’s mother. But if a codex entry that shows Orsino’s letter to Quentin was read, the player might figure this out. It’s always rewarding to do so. There are a few other examples. I hope Bioware put more of these in the future.

- Aveline is such a well-developed character, right up there with Alistair (who was a former templar turned Grey Warden, but was also a bastard child of a king). She went from losing her husband, becoming a city guard, rose up in ranks to become the captain, marry someone who Hawke had the pleasure to match her with in a rather hilarious quest, all the while being a stalwart friend to Hawke.

- Having a particular party member with you might let you steer the conversation in different directions than you otherwise might have. This is indeed a very good addition.

- Well voiced and expertly written chracters.

- Faster paced combat. Visceral combat animations. More immediacy to actions. These are good.

- Improvement in visuals. Slightly more cartoony look actually worked surprisingly well. I was playing with 1900 x 1600 resolution, and it looked too crisp and frankly not that good. But when I changed to 1680 x 1050, voila! - the resulting blurrier effect complemented the new art style perfectly. Something for the lead artist to note perhaps. However, there were patches of the game that felt bland. And graphically it's still not up to modern standards. Here's a suggestion which is probably wishful thinking but I'll say it regardless: use the Crysis 2 engine, get Crytek (which is also owned by EA) to mod the engine for you guys.

- The Qunari look fantastic and Flemeth steals the show in any scene that she’s in.

- Kirkwall is a beautiful place. But it had some problems. Look below.

- Stunning watercolor cutscenes by Varric. Hope to see more of those in the future. Also, well done loading screens, a visual treat. Those can do with much greater variety though– it gets boring after a while.

- Inter-party banter system has been revitalized, offering quick, often funny insights into your companions’ ideas and preferences. Party members carried on lively side conversations as I wandered around Kirkwall, chatting about their own interests, quizzing each other on their past histories, and commenting on the actions my Hawke had taken during her time in the city. Often, all three party members and Hawke would get involved, too, making it feel like we were really having a chat among colleagues. As time passed, party members would update or even change their opinions on the state of events in Kirkwall, depending on how their relationships with Hawke and their fellow companions had fared. And my party members responded to events in Hawke’s life as well, offering support, congratulations or comfort depending on the situation.

- Arishok is one of the best adversary of any Bioware games. Fascinating character.

- Absolutely love the quest where Hawke’s mom was killed by the mad mage Quentin. Honestly, I cried. If invoking emotions in players is part of Bioware’s goal, then this is a perfect example. Another stand out moment, was the fateful moment when Anders blew the Chantry, what a betrayal, what a surprise, what a moment when you realize THAT will change the world forever. In Origins, the moment that stood out was when Flemeth, Alistair and the Hero of Ferelden conversed at the Korcari Wilds, the rush of new hope, purpose and excitement as you decide to save Ferelden and fight the Blight against all odds. I hope to see more of these moments in the next game.

Dislikes:

- Because of the framed narrative stuctured storyline in which Hawke rises to power over a decade, sometimes there was a feeling of lack of a main purpose to pull you through the game, that there isn't an end game prize to set your eyes on. Perhaps, there wasn't a strong enough effort to raise the player's curiosity as to what happened that caused the war. A well done epic war cutscene between mages and templars all over the world of Thedas right at the beginning of the game, may have helped matters. The game was also poorly paced, in which Act I is a quest dumb. There was no purpose or no end game prize to pull you through. The story lacks cohesion and a direction, feeling more like a chain of random events than a overarching narrative. Things just happen around you, often without a clear reason or a warning. Maybe it is the execution that’s lacking or the focus on combat and lack of free exploration of the world and its characters that get in the way, but the end result is often jarring. The prized "immersion" is rarely present. Take Bethany, for example. She is your sister and an apostate mage. If you take her with you on the above mentioned expedition, she will get poisoned by the darkspawn (think zombie bite). While you were shown a character dying from this poison before (to make a point and create a precedent), the fact is that when you play the game and slaughter hordes of the darkspawn nobody ever gets poisoned. So when someone does, it doesn’t create the desired dramatic effect. It creates the very opposite, a “oh what the hell, you’ve gotta be kidding me” effect.

- Prefer Origin's many conversation options over the new dialogue wheel. While it's more accessible and faster, it's not as nuanced as it was in Origins, which often provides more options to better express my own thoughts/role for the character. I sometime felt you were pigeonholed into basically 3 or sometimes 4 'canned' choices.

- Sometimes, your choices don't have gameplay consequences at all and amount to smoke and mirrors, giving the illusion of choice but nothing more. This is perfectly reasonable for the most part, given that such dialogue choices allow you to role-play, even when they carry no further weight. There are events that play out much the same way regardless of how you respond, however, which makes some of these illusions disappointingly transparent.

- Characters that joined your party didn't make as strong a first impression nor having the lasting impact of the original cast. They're more subtle - which works for and against the game.

- Rather than freely giving gift items to your comrades based on what you understand of their personalities (as was done in DA:O), finding a pertinent item unlocks a quest in which you present the item to the only possible recipient. You can also inch closer to love by selecting dialogue options marked with a heart icon, which makes the whole process of romance less mysterious--and more game-ish--than in the original Dragon Age.

- Armor restrictions of party members. One of the joys of RPGs is to the anticipation and the actual finding of new loot, particularly armors and weapons. I understand having a unchangeable customized armor may add more personality and consistency of character to them, but in this case, I feel the benefit gained is lesser than the what was lost as a result. Varric's only weapon is the crossbow he calls Bianca, and there are no specialty arrows (ice, fire) for him to equip.

- Lack of variety in weapons and equipment. Almost all of them only give point bonuses which took away all the fun of finding loot. A ring that shoots fireball or a sword that can fight by itself for example, would have been nice. Just look at what Baldur’s Gate 2 has done here.

- Speaking of items, Kirkwall and its surroundings are filled with junk you can pick up. It goes into the generic “loot” section of your inventory; the loot doesn’t have icons and is aimed to make you wondering what this loot business was all about. “Are the designers lazy?” “Couldn’t they afford to pay a concept artist a few thousand bucks for some decent icons?” “Do we even need this junk?” “Wouldn’t it be better to give the player some interesting items showing the world’s history and culture?”

- Non-combat skills such as trap-making, stealing, survival, coercion - all gone. I guess I can understand that those were taken out maybe to not confuse players since DA2 isn't only targeted on traditional PC RPG players, the console crowd and newer players have also come into the equation. However, I can't help but feel something enjoyable is lost here.

- Crafting is a hands-off affair, too. No longer do you merrily pick herbs and flowers on your travels. You simply find hidden pockets of infinite crafting resources which merchants can then use to deliver potions direct to your inventory. It's strangely soulless, as if Tesco Direct has inserted itself into this fantasy realm.

- I have said I liked the combat animations for the most part. I feel powerful and in control – but sometimes almost too powerful. But they feel too fast sometimes, too snappy. Watching the bunch of your party swinging about wildly for hours on end, really breaks the suspension of disbelief here. I suggest mixing it up by adding some less flashy animations as well as smoothen the existing ones so as to look more realistic. Also adding the cool finishing blows from Origins would have been awesome. Animations could also do with much more variation. Seeing my party members essentially making the exact same moves over and over again gets tired very fast. Perhaps, make the animations progression based, kind of like a reward for leveling up or investing in certain abilities unlocks newer and better looking moves. That way you don't get to see moves there is by the first hour of the game. A game that executed this particularly well was The Witcher.

- No isometric camera really hurts. It's a real pain sometimes to cast spells on the exact location you want, due to a combination of tight spaces and enemies blocking the view (which automatically move the location of the spell to the point of that obstructing foe). This was absolutely annoying for me, having experienced countless times having to spend half a minute just to cast a spell on the exact location I want.

- Interface style and design, while clean and functional, looked more like it came from a modern or futuristic game, rather than being consistent with a medieval/fantasy setting. DAO was better here and even that can be improved.

- Another MAJOR problem I had with the game is the overwhelming number of enemies that essentially function the same way despite it from a different groups and having different names. There’s always the standard archer, standard melee fighter, standard assassin, standard commander and standard mage, for almost all factions. And that’s it, little more variety beyond bosses and tweaked HP. Fighting a fun tactical battle requires two halves to make an exciting encounter – variety of party members and abilities, and the other half is varied enemies with intelligence. DA2 certainly lacked the latter. You can’t expect to have great replay value when enemies themselves are dumb, identical and the only difficulty comes in when they are huge in numbers. After fighting shades, archers, assassins etc for the millionth time in my nightmare playthrough, I ceased to have fun and simply turn to casual mode just to progress the story. You’ve made the enemies rather soulless here. And it doesn’t live up to the rich background Bioware has created. It’s boring, it’s repetitive. Please take a page or two from Baldur’s Gate 2, in which everyone you faced was handcrafted to be different and compelling. Shame, in the earlier levels I did have fun. Ironically, given its focus, combat is a weak, uninspired aspect of the game, a fact which dooms DA2 to mediocrity and abysmally low ratings. Simply put, the combat lacks personality and variety. You'll quickly become bored of the simple, predictable two-waves-of-enemies combat design. This combat is at its best in Act 1, when every new skill makes a difference and the enemies’ HP are still relatively low. Which means that it is tactics and not patience which is needed to kill them. Sadly, that doesn’t last very long. The game is challenging on Hard (though it would have been nice if friendly fire had been enabled there too), but the challenge comes not from the ruleset as it does in Dungeon & Dragons games and not from well-designed monsters with a variety of abilities as it does in Diablo-like games, no, it comes from the sheer numbers of enemies zerging your party and from that second wave of enemies spawning in all around you, literally out of thin air in most cases, which is the laziest design possible. The overwhelming focus on killing things keeps you from digging into the world and its characters in a satisfying manner, and cripple replayability. Unfortunately, the combat is too repetitive to carry the game on its own.

- Environments are mostly static and non-interactive. This doesn’t help in creating a believable world to immerse yourself in.

- One issue with the exploration, I assume, has something to do with the consoles. All game environments are small passages. Even the coast is represented by a large, circle 'passage'. The game’s characters do their best not to notice it, but it makes the problem even more noticeable. The expedition to the Deep Roads (a network of ancient underground roads once connecting the dwarven cities) is nothing but 3 small “dungeons” between the cutscenes. The first cutscene tells you that the road is blocked and asks you to check the side tunnels. The map shows you a small square of your current location and a single path to the side, which significantly narrows down your “side tunnels” exploring options. You run through the tunnel killing things in your way until you reach the end, which triggers another cutscene informing you that the exit to the main road has been found. Huzzah! You don’t actually travel the Deep Roads because the consoles would probably explode. Instead you’re teleported to the next tiny passage. You’ve found something again! The stuff of legends. The Primeval Thaig, whatever that is. How did you find it? Damned if you know. You were napping most of the time and when you woke up, there it was, in all its ancient glory. Fighting your way through narrow, linear passages you reach the main chamber. Cutscene! The evil brother grabs a relic and locks you inside a chamber buried deep underground. What are we going to do? Hmm, maybe we should take this linear passage that conveniently runs all the way to the surface? I know it sounds crazy, but it just might work. Overall, the design of the Deep Roads, especially considering what they are supposed to be, can’t be compared to the wondrous, awe-inspiring dungeons of Baldur’s Gate 2’s or Icewind Dale.

- You visit the few places in Kirkwall again and again. Would be nice if you get to see major changes occurring over the years to these places.

- I noted that Elves kind of look like goats, others said the Na’vi from Avatar. I think both are valid. It’s not so much the extremely knifey ears – I think it’s more of the anorexia-type thinness, wide eyes and the almost universally flat noses that put me off.

- Bioware misses the opportunity to tie the game mechanics directly into that conflict. Magic cast by your party is completely ignored by the Templars outside of scripted events, Blood magic is purchased with a simple skill point choice instead of a story one like in DA:O, and you never have to face corruption of your own powers, as a mage. Disappointing, given that Bioware managed to make restrictions on magic tie into the game mechanics as far back as Baldur's Gate 2, with the Cowled Wizard's prohibition on spellcasting in Athkatla.

- The character system has been significantly altered...for the worse. The obsolete “to hit chance” mechanic is gone. In your grandpa's RPGs, unsuccessful attacks missed their target. In Dragon Age 2 they merely cause less damage (glancing blows). Your primary stat (one for each class; might as well make the system even more ‘welcoming’ and call it DAMAGE!!!) determines your base damage and your chance to do extra damage. Hovering your cursor over your attack rating displays a breakdown, for example 85% vs normal enemy, 70% vs enemy lieutenant, 55% vs enemy boss. What does it mean for you? A system where you always hit is an HP game, so you’ll be hitting the “bosses” aka HP behemoths for a very, very long time. The combat talents have been greatly expanded. At first glance the game offers more diversity of choice, but after playing for a while you realize that it actually offers less. For instance, in Dragon Age warriors had 4 talent lines: dual weapon, archery, weapon & shield, two handed. In Dragon Age 2 warriors have only two combat lines – weapon & shield and two handed. If you want to play a dual-wielding fighter, you HAVE to play a rogue. Eventually, probably by the time you hit level 14-16 you’ll build a fairly capable character with most or all skills you want to have. Then you’ll have no reasons to look forward to the next level up, which is one of the three main elements of action RPGs, and start losing interest. If you’re wondering why, imagine Diablo 2 without the ability to invest multiple points and with poorly designed and balanced skills. Level scaling once again proves to be an abomination and a slight against God, ruining both combat and the item system. Every time you level up, you actually get weaker. Your “to hit chance” and armor rating go down (because enemies’ to hit chance and armor rating go up), which is absolutely retarded. So, your equipment, including unique items, lose their value faster than you can blink, and priceless artefacts of yesterday are quickly surpassed by the local mass production. If you want to maintain your combat worthiness you have to hit the shops after a level up or two and buy (often the same looking) weapons/armor with a 5-7% increase in stats. I stopped playing on Nightmare (just to progress the story faster, and to finish all fights as soon as possible because they weren’t any fun any more) when I started Act 3. My patience was overcome by a dragon. It was a fearsome beast, full of vigour and hit points. Borrowing a page from console boss fights, he would fly to a remote rock every time I’d get his HP down by a quarter (which takes like 5 minutes real time) and summon some chicken-dragon trash mobs while shooting exploding projectiles at my party. Somewhere between sitting and watching my characters slowly – ever so very slowly – chipping away at the dragon’s health bar and keeping an eye on the cool down counters, I asked myself what part of this tedious exercise constitutes fun and couldn’t really come up with a good answer. I remember fighting Firkraag, the red dragon in Baldur’s Gate 2. Now THAT was fun. The dragon didn’t have a health bar. It had only 180 hit points. We called them tactics, son. And the sword you got after the fight didn’t become obsolete the moment you leveled up.

Modifié par SphereofSilence, 31 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[Taellosse]

On the whole, I quite enjoyed this game. The framed narrative unfolding over 7 years, with recurring plot threads across acts, 3 semi-complete stories, and none of them the highly overdone "the hero must save the world from total destruction" was, on the whole, quite satisfying. I also quite enjoyed the vast majority of improvements to the game engine (combat is MUCH more fun, so much so that I may never be able to go back to Origins), and I'm fine with the voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel--the symbols in the middle go a long way to resolving any issues I had with the technique's implementation in the ME games--I hope the same sort of improvement sees use in ME3! I was also quite happy with the length of the game--I'm honestly not sure what people who claim to have done everything and finished this game in 20 hours are talking about. Even if they're speed readers playing on Casual, I don't see how they could possibly have actually been remotely completionist with a time like this. Admittedly, I tend to take my time with an RPG, but my final time is something like 85 hours (by contrast, DA:O, excluding post-release DLCs, took me about 95 hours).

All that said, there are some criticisms. I, personally, managed to avoid many of the more serious bugs, but friends of mine have not been so fortunate, and my own experience was not bug free. QA either seriously dropped the ball here, or somebody forced the game to release before they were finished. Having no knowledge on the internal workings of Bioware, I can only speculate, but I suspect the latter. I personally encountered the bug where Isabela's Friendship Bonus was screwing up my attack speed when she wasn't in my squad (which I corrected for periodically with a save game editor), several times my cursor would stop being able to actually select anything, preventing me from talking to anyone, open any doors or chests, or leave any area. Fortunately quitting the game and reloading fixed this, and I never had it happen to me during combat--but it apparently can. I also got the broken "Who Needs Rescuing?" quest in Act 3, and the won't-leave-my-active-quest-list "Sketchy on the Details" quest in Act 2. I had other issues here and there as well, but I wasn't keeping a running tally, and some of them have slipped my mind. Seriously--I would have been okay playing this game in June instead if you'd pushed the release back to finish testing.

The recycled locations really got to me after a while. If you really must reuse the same map that often, with certain parts blocked off to vary things a little, at LEAST take the effort to modify the map screen so it shows me where I can ACTUALLY go. And maybe cover some of the non-usable doors with a plain wall texture, or use placeables to show them blocked off a little more often. Again, I'd have been okay playing the game a few months later for the sake of a little more variety. The game already takes place over a much smaller geographical area than Origins, every cave, ruin, underground passage, and mansion shouldn't look exactly the same.

In general, the writing for each of the party NPCs was great. But showing a bit more change and development over time--ESPECIALLY for the romance partners--would be a good idea. Merrill, except for a few throw-away comments and specifically within the context of a couple conversations, seems to change very little over the course of 7 years, despite some very significant events in which Hawke plays a key role. Anders and Fenris are, to a somewhat lesser extent, much the same--big things happen that ought to make them reassess their thinking, and the text entries for them even suggest that they do, but they keep behaving the same way anyway. I think Aveline, Sebastian, and Isabela do a much better job of this, to varying degrees.

Plot-wise, I found the ending very frustrating on one level. A framed narrative normally comes to a point where you "catch up" with the story, and the conclusion is told in real-time. Instead, when we get to the end of Varric's story, we're told (not shown) that Hawke has inexplicably disappeared, and we get foreshadowing for future games. I understand this is meant to be a cliffhanger for some future DLC or later game (DA3?), but having some kind of epilogue scene, similar to that of Origins, would have gone a long way to helping smooth this out. Something that explains where Hawke goes, at least initially, and what happens to all her friends (even Varric--all we know is he was found in/brought back to Kirkwall by the Seekers to talk to Cassandra, not why he left Hawke or when). I imagine some of this will get covered in later installments, but it leaves THIS game feeling unfinished in yet another way. You don't need to resolve every dangling plot thread, but at least giving us indications of where everyone's going next would be good. The Empire Strikes Back doesn't end when Luke refuses Vader and jumps down the air shaft, it takes the time to properly set up the situation for the next film.

So, in summary, I think DA2 is a solid sequel and game in its own right that was forced out the door a little too quickly. I think it probably would have benefited a lot from another 6-8 months of development and QA testing. I know it used mostly the same engine and setting as DA:O, and so didn't need nearly so long in development, but 16 months was just a LITTLE too fast, especially when Awakening came out in between. I'm okay with waiting 2 years for a sequel to a great game like Origins, honest.

[SphereofSilence]

I want to further add a few dislikes and suggestions:

- Changed look of Zevran, Alistair, Teagan. I fail to see why their faces got an overhaul, now they looked ugly and really put me off. If you want to change them, at least make them look better than the original, not the other way round. What a way to spoil their cameos.

- If you're going to use the same dialogue wheel again for the next game, at least give the option to toggle on and show the words that is going to be said by the player character. Sometimes what was said ran counter to what I thought they would say.

- Also regarding character leveling - with very few exceptions, it's a no brainer what attributes that your character should invest in. Warriors - strength, constitution. Mages - magic, willpower and a bit of constitution if so inclined. Rogues - dexterity, cunning and a bit of constitution if so inclined. So what's the point of keeping the whole attribute system? Might as well add default amount of stats depending on class every time a character levels up. The side benefits of putting stats not suited for your classes such as being harder to be knocked was far outweighed by the benefits gained for going for the class stats. Again, take a page or two from the likes of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate series. This isn't evolving the genre, this is devolving the genre.

Modifié par SphereofSilence, 31 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

I posted my review several days ago, but have something to add after playing the Sebastian Act 2 mission as a mage instead of a rogue:

The person in charge of allocating Seb's attributes and the person responsible for the chests must not have exchanged information.  Since Seb HAS to be present, I dropped Varric...and then was faced with chests I couldn't access.  It's a small thing but irritating.<_<

[Calbeb]

I finally finished Dragon Age 2 a few hours ago. I had a lot of fun with the game overall.

Liked: The characters. I think this might be the best Bioware cast. I love Varric, Anders (even though he's clearly way darker and more conflicted in this game.) Aveline (who grew on me more and more as the game went on) and Merill. Anders was my game's love interest, which made the last hour of the game really emotionally brutal for me. The decision involving him was emotionally tough for me in a way that those types of choices rarely are. Additionally, making the character storylines playable, with more specific character missions is preferable in my opinion to just talking to them endlessly in a camp, even if a "conversation" quest popping up in my journal seemed like an awkward way to handle character convos.

- The story: The game lacks a traditional plot, but I was really invested in Hawke's rise to power. I loved getting hints of all the different factions and characters in Act 1, and watching those powder kegs start to blow one by one. It was the kind of story where a few political situations bubble over and you play a part in the chaos rather than one in which the protoganist was far more actively involved. I think that there can be a good middle ground between thse two forms in the future.

The new art style: Swords are too large, but otherwise a big win from me. I didn't like the looks of the screen caps but I really love how the finished product looks.

The combat: I played the game on hard, because normal difficulty was way too easy. The game didn't seem to lose much of the tactical strenghts of the original, and I actually like how much more visceral it felt in the moment. It was tough, some fights took me a lot of tries, and other fights seemed way too easy, but it was a really solid improvement over the original game imo.

The Bad: Environments - Repeating environments = bad. There is really no viable excuse for how many different caves, warehouses, mansions and outdoor areas look exactly the same as other ones. I know that there are rooms I fought mobs in at least 5-6 times. Additionally, it's absolutely rediculous that after you finish the Deep Roads in Act 1, you NEVER see a new looking environment. I know that might be the rush but it's really poor.

The City: Kirkwall NEVER changes year to year. Other than the statue, Lowtown always looks the same, as does Hightown, Darktown and The Docks. It made the "passage of time" the most important facet of the game feel less real. If you are going to keep players in a single area the entire game, make sure that you keep it changing up.

Character Equiptment: I know that you didn't let us upgrade our companions eqpt because you wanted to have a unified look for them, but it's really frustrating to have a badass set of rogue and mage gear, but be unable to gear up my rogue or mage characfters. It just felt a little sloppy.

Codex: This is a minor UI thing that frustrated. Please, add a button that automatically brings you to unread codex messages in the console versions. I hate having to look through over a hundred entries for the one new one whenever the codex thing pops up. It's frustrating.

Overall: Loved the game. Love the Dragon Age UNiverse. I will preorder Dragon Age 3 and play the DLC. The good outweights the bad. However, the problems NEED to be fixed in future products. This is an amazing series and an amazing set of stories, and I just want to see it keep at the quality it deserves to be.

[t3hTwinky]

Things that are awesome:

More responsive combat.

I enjoy the insta-cast for the majority of abilities and spells, since I need to respond in fractions of seconds to avoid getting raep'd most of the time.

I also enjoy the 2-Handed warrior's AoE with basic attacks, although since the attack speed is sped way up from Origins, I almost don't need it.

More party banter.

Party banter is my favorite part of DA2. There's nothing wrong with colorful characters interacting with each other.

Sarcasm.

I love that practically every conversation allows (encourages?) me to be a smartass.

No more stunlocks.

Overwhelm was the worst idea ever, and it will not be missed.

The artstyle.

I love the creepy Byzantine artstyle, I think it gives the game a unique look. I also think the in-game armor looks a lot cooler and less generic than in origins.

Things that are NOT awesome:

Enemy spawns.

I thought Origins was lacking in tactical gameplay, but DA2 barely has any at all. Every fight goes down the same way;

Your party runs to the center of an area.
Enemies spawn from all directions, surrounding you.
Your party kills a bunch of enemies.
Enemies spawn from all directions, surrounding you, again.

A lot of times the spawns don't even make sense; enemies will drop down out of thin air, or come bursting from a room I just cleared moments earlier. It's not challenging when I think I'm done with an encounter, only to find that yet another wave of enemies has spawned behind me and taken down my mages with some crazy health-draining BS; it's annoying, cheap, and lame.

Samey Enviornments.

The amount of re-used enviornments is pretty crazy. DA2 has got us going through the same areas three times for the three acts, and again for the night portions.

That is an epic amount of backtracking by itself, but then all the dungeons are made up of different sections of the same handful of maps, which would be okay if it weren't so blatantly obvious.

Companion armor.

I think it's a good idea for companions to have 'costumes' so they can keep their individual look, but I don't like that I can't give them all the cool loot I get throughout the game. I would have been happy if I could give them whatever armor, but have their costume always stay the same.

Armor restictions.

I like that all the rogue (or whatever) armor has attribute requirements that basically make sure only a certain-level rogue can use it, but I also think it limits the number of ways you can play a class.

[SphereofSilence]

Another thing I like:

Certain Hawke's responses during cutscenes which can't be controlled, depends on the proportion of 'good', 'humour/smartass', or 'tough/badass' comments chosen.

[Brockololly]

Its probably been mentioned already, but one notable missed opportunity with the voiced PC: In the lead up to DA2 being released, Laidlaw often cited how a huge drawback to the unvoiced Warden was that you couldn't make a big speech or anything of the sort. Hawke makes the one big speech at the end really.

But you did it wrong BioWare.

If you're going to let us have a voiced PC and give any sort of speech, take a page from Mass Effect and let the player dictate the course of the speech. Hawke's speech at the end is just Hawke going rogue and going off on a monologue without any player guidance. Whereas in ME1 and 2, when Shep makes his speeches, they're often broken up into chunks so the player can actually direct them and you feel mor involved in the speech and its not just a little uninvolved cutscene.

Although, personally, you didn't even really need Hawke giving a speech at the end whether you're Templar or Mage- IMO, it just came across as forced and a poor imitation of Origins' endgame, but thats another issue.

Modifié par Brockololly, 01 avril 2011 - 12:33 .

[Dewarren2010]

Overall, I feel like Dragon Age II was a step back. Sure, it looked good, and the combat (animations) were pretty impressive, but there are several points where I was disapointed

- Story: it seemed like the game was trying to make itself Mass Effect, which is about "Shepards Story". The "Hawke's story" bit was disapointing simply because Hawke isn't as good of a character as Shepard. The events in the story felt disjointed and the "rise of hawke" itself didn't feel connected to the overall plot of dragon age (if there is one),
     To be fair there were several moments I liked in the plot, but the story itself was a disapointment

- Characters: Overall, I feel like this was a huge missed opportunity. These were some of the best characters yet, but because I couldn't interact with them at all, I felt no attatchment to them at all (including my LI, isabella, which I dislike for having the "sexy" look like Miranda had...I want a good, strong character for my LI, like Ash, not some model.) 
      Also, having a party camp, while maybe not entirely realistic, does serve as a good gameplay element. I could talk to characters in between missions, fully gear them up and level up before heading back out again. 

- Setting: Kirkwall was great, for the first act. Afterwords, the game would have improved from going to Starkhaven, Tantervale, or other cities, perhapes chasing Bartrand for the idol or moving inland as the Quanari press forward after taking Kirkwall, or seeing an all-out war between Templars and Mages in multiple cities. The Free Marches is a big place, and the plot elements could be still implemented while allowing characters to explore more than the same old city.
      Probably has been said countless times, but the first time I stepped into one of the caves or the wounded coast I was impressed. But when the enviorment kept repeating- i could deal with textures, but the same exact dungeon each time- that only makes the game worse, and made me dread going to places as of Act 2

- Combat: Not as much to say here, but the combat, while fun, lacked depth. I know its to bring in a larger croud, but the fans wanted the tactical combat of the first game, and though it works well on consoles, the PC version suffers.
      Loot wise, i would appreciate bringing back the armor for companions. It worked alright for Mass Effect (though I wasnt thrilled about it there either) but DA suffers because of it.

To wrap it all up, I want to say this, with no disrespect ment but how i feel in general: Dragon Age and Mass Effect 1 are great games. Dragon Age II and to a lesser extent ME2 have suffered because of several decisions made by Bioware. Bioware is a good developer, but you guys, with all due respect, need to know that just because you Bioware doesn't mean that you will always make a good story or a good game. Hearing "We are Bioware, we make good stories" isn't always true, and though I do love your games, the games themselves have suffered recently, both in marketing and overall quality. I, persoanlly, want the games like DAO and Mass Effect 1 back, and though I loved Mass Effect 2, DA II was a disapointment.

One last thing then I'm done: I played through ME1 6 or so times, Dragon age about 4. I went through about 3 campaigns in ME2 (2 and a half, one was a new game plus and the other I never really finished) and with Dragon Age II, I've stopped in the middle of the 2nd timebecause I wasn't having fun, it felt more like a chore to do quests, not a fun experiance.

[erynnar]

I also wanted to add one thing about Hawke vs. the Warden.... Hawke was sooo pre-made I never really was her. I doubt, for instance, I
will ever be inspired to write any fanfiction based on Hawke. She is BioWare's
character and I liken her to the cars on the rails at Disney Land back
in the day. You had the illusion you were driving, but not really. The Warden
is like the bumper cars, yes there were boundries you couldn't
cross...but I got to bump into other cars causing a reaction, and drive
around (even if it was only in circles).

[Ieldra]

So....now that I've finished three playthroughs, I'll write another review that is less tainted by first impressions. Since I consider them the most important, I'll start with the....

MAJOR COMPLAINTS

Dialogue wheel paraphrases
I like the new direction Bioware's roleplaying games have taken in the last years, making dialogue scenes instead of simply dialogue, and making them an intrinsic part of the game and the characters' presentation instead of using them mainly as a means to get information to the player. I also don't mind the dialogue wheel as an interface element as such.

But, if I cannot anticipate what my own character is saying, then I am not playing my character, but the game plays him or her for me, and often in a way I do not want. Whenever I am negatively surprised by what my character is saying, that damages any connection I might have built up with my character. In DA2, that happens so often that I am hard-pressed to keep any connection at all.

I don't know what the reason is why Bioware insists on misleading and ultra-short paraphrases for the wheel - be it dogma, technical difficulties etc. - I also do not care. I can only say that that absolutely MUST change, if Bioware's games want to stay role-playing games.

If I could make Bioware change one aspect of their future games and not more, I would select this: longer and more meaningful paraphrases on the dialogue wheel. Really, that can't be difficult. It's just text after all.

I might add that I find it insulting that whenever a paraphrase appears that my character could have said word by word, the game almost makes a point of it that the character says something else equally short. That makes it appear as if the paraphrases are *deliberately* misleading. If so, then I must say that Bioware has adopted a philosophy not at all conducive to roleplaying. Bioware, please re-think it!

Combat animations and gore
DA2 combat looks like a farce. It is the first game whose combat I would never show to my friends for sheer embarrassment. Enemies exploding in a shower of blood, shades making flips in the air, rogues flying five metres through the air to strike, mages striking a pose as if they were doing a flashy finishing move and then delivering something akin to a small cut in the finger. I feel that Bioware's new philosophy of making something awesome happen at every turn misfired badly. DAOs finishing moves were awesome because they were rare. DA2's flashier animations are not bad as such, but they're so overused that they turn combat into a farce. As for the gore, DA's gore level was always ridiculous, but now it's become so bad you can't ignore it any more.

Re-used environments
I don't think I need to explain this. Enemy waves (see below) make combat a chore, and reused environments make exploration a chore. This is the first game where it didn't even take one complete playthrough for me to develop an automatism for exploring locations of a certain layout. The "Ah yes, this cave again" effect began to appear in Act 2 of my first game. I could even predict where the main enemy of that cave, if there was to be one, would appear.

Number of enemies, overuse of enemy waves
Making enemies attack in waves may be interesting a few times, if it is set up convincingly. DA2 overuses this element and the enemy waves are in almost all cases not at all convincing, appearing out of thin air, jumping down from somewhere above in a closed room etc.. I might also mention that I feel I have killed more people in DA2 than in the last three Bioware games I've played together. I don't need to expound on it more, others have done than better. Combat in DA2 becomes a tiresome chore before the first Act of the first game ends. The only reason I don't switch to Casual to get it over with faster (except for the boss fights where I do that) is that it's still a little more interesting if I get to use some of my characters' combat abilities. But mainly, I only endure the combat to get to the next dialogue scene.

GOOD BUT WITH NOTICEABLE FLAWS

Companions, dialogue scenes and character interaction - good, but too railroaded
Dialogue scenes and character interaction is one of the strengths of DA2, no question. Ever since the new style was introduced in ME1 and refined in ME2, and - yes - refined again in DA2, I've never wanted to experience in-game character interaction any other way. All in all, those scenes are by far the best part of DA2. And I notice a new development since ME2 in that we now have three-way interactions, for instance when Hawke barges in on a conversation between two of his companions.

So why do I have a mixed impression? Is is like this: I have played ME2 eight times. Even more if I count that I've replayed parts of my eight Shepards' careers. And all the time, even in the eightth playthrough, I only skipped conversations after a reload-and-repeat of a scene that didn't play out as I wanted, or after an experiment with an option I wanted to try. In DA2, I'm tempted to skip conversations much more often.

I've asked myself why that is so, and come up with several reasons:

First, I can never choose when to interact with my companions. In ME2, we had a mix of mission-based and free interactions. That feels much more natural than the forced way things work in DA2. The advantage of avoiding a "I don't want to talk. Calibrations" etc.. interaction is, in my estimation, not worth the disadvantage of feeling railroaded in my character interactions. Being told by my journal "now you can interact with X" feels forced. In DAO, and to a limited extent in both ME games, I could talk to my companions when I felt like doing so. If I didn't feel like it, I could do some sidequest or advance the main plot or whatever. In DA2, I feel constrained.

Second, much more of the interaction feels inconsequential. I recall my talks with Leliana and her tales of Orlais, of her life as a Bard etc.. in DAO, and my impression is that none of DA2's companions's backstories are as rich, with the possible exception of Fenris. The interactive scenes are well-made but appear to lack content more often than those of the other games', and with the more sketchy backstories the companions don't feel quite as complete as DAO's. When I step back to analyze it, things don't appear that bad, we get quite a lot of backstory information from most of the companions, and there is quite a lot of interaction overall. But that doesn't change how things feel while I'm playing.

The main plot and Hawke's story in Kirkwall - goes a little too far in "you can't change anything"
For the record: I very much appreciate that the story focuses more on how Hawke navigates through events she can't affect in a major way. Recalling, again, ME2, where I've almost come to resent my protagonist for being able to convince anyone of anything and almost being that universe's messiah, DA2 is a refreshing change. A climb to power, making decisions that affect individuals but have only a small effect, if any, on the bigger events presents a very good frame for roleplaying. The decisions you make are far from inconsequential, affecting the life and death of various people in the city like Feynriel and Keran as well as the life of some of your companions in a major way.
I also very much appreciate how integrated some of the companions are in the story - Isabela and Anders come to mind.

The problem is the cumulative effect of all the small things you can not change. They make you feel depressed. You cannot save your mother. Mages you've saved make an 180 and turn to blood magic and summon demons all over the place. One of your siblings dies right at the start of the game, the other gets torn away from you one of three possible ways. But the worst hit was Grace. I liked her in Act I. When she turned on me in Act III it felt like a personal betrayal, much worse than Isabela running off with the relic. That was like the final nail in the coffin for the hope of any kind of uplifting element to the story. At that point, what I really wanted to do is to leave the city with Isabela on her new ship and never come back, and leave Kirkwall to tear itself apart without my further participation.

Maybe that was as intended. If Bioware wanted to tell a dark story, they certainly succeeded in that. But even though I appreciate it, after all Hawke went through I would have expected to be *shown* (not just told) an epilogue with some kind of personally uplifting element.

As an aside, I should also mention that the endgame sequence feels horribly contrived. That Orsino turns himself into a monster if you side with him makes no sense.

THE GOOD PARTS

Emotional moments
Party banter

I've no time left to flesh things out more at this time, but I think I've covered the most important aspects. I think I also mostly agree with the general tendency of most other reviews on this thread.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 avril 2011 - 11:10 .

[Alex Kershaw]

-

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 01 avril 2011 - 05:25 .

[Alex Kershaw]

Starting off with the presentation of the game, the game looks nicer than Origins, in general. In terms of the actual quality of the animations and graphics, at least. As for whether flesh and bones should explode after being stabbed - that is a different issue and one that, given the grand scale of problems that DA2 has, isn't really worth dwelling on. I did find it odd that my rogue cartwheel-attacked constantly, kicked smoke bombs, etc, but if this is part of Bioware's goal to widen their audience, that's fine by me since it doesn't really impact the gameplay all that much.

What does impact the immersion of the game is the locations. The game runs over a 7-year period, split into 3 sections. Know that once you have finished section 1, you will never see a new location ingame. I would like to address the common argument here that the game is based in one city and therefore that was the point; I know this, but that doesn't make it a good thing. Putting the entire game in one city is a fault, not an excuse. The game couldn't get away with being set in one house, and using that as an excuse. The fact is - it's boring to see the same locations constantly, and they don't change all that much contrary to what Bioware might say. Now I'm reluctant to give this next point because it means coming down to the level of agreeing that the game being in one city is a valid excuse, but it must be said that the same locations are reused 10+ times each for different purposes, such as caves, warehouses, etc. The brothel is the same as all 5+ mansions you will encounter during the game, for example. This draws away from the immersion terribly, and is pure laziness. So this is split into two problems; first the fact that explore the same locations, with all the side-quests in the same places, and secondly that the same assets were used for apparently different locations.

Now while we touched on the subject of the game's timespan, I'll continue down that path. The game does not do a very good job of making this realistic at all. You will jump forward 3 years and then have characters come up to you and talk as if it's the next day. Honestly - the gap could have been a few days and it would have ran just as smoothly, if not more so.

When I mentioned the locations, you might have been thinking of ME1. But no, it's worse than that. This isn't just side quests - all the quests reuse these locations. Over and over and over and over. I'm bringing this back up to make my next point - there isn't really any difference between the main quests and the side quests. The game seems to simply be an assortment of side quests, with the only difference being that some are mandatory and some are optional.

One of the biggest flaws of DA2 is that there is no main plot. There is no over-arching storyline, or a sense of direction. The first act is the worst - it's the introduction where you are simply doing chores for different people while you attempt to build your reputation. However, this doesn't make good fun. It's just the usual talking to A, travelling to B, having a massive fight with hordes of unexplained corpses and shades, then going back to A for a reward. And slowly, the story progresses. Act 2 has somewhat of a plot; the side-quests are completely unrelated but you at least have some idea of what the plot for that act is. However, it's completely unrelated to act 3! I find it odd that of all the criticism of DA2 I have seen, nobody else has brought this up. Act 2 and 3 have completely different stories as if they are completely different games. Bioware are meant to be masters of story - why have they forgotten the basics - stories have beginnings, middles and ends. This has nothing of the sort.

Now the companions are a main part of the game, and they're pretty good. They're not as memorable as Morrigan, Alistair or Leliana, but most of them sit quite comfortable below the interesting Origins characters and above the boring Origins characters. My main issue is that you can't really talk to companions any more. Yes - they took a good step in spacing out relationships so that certain dialogue options only open up after certain events, but you cannot choose when to talk to characters any more. You can't talk to them and ask them for stories or develop your relationships. You simply wait until the companion quest pops up which indicates a new dialogue option is available, head over to their 'house' and talk through a forced conversation. This was really disappointing because I didn't feel the same connection as I did in Origins. If somebody asked me about the back-story of Leliana or Morrigan, I could talk for quite some time about it. Ask me about Aveline and I'd give you a couple of sentences, despite her being the most active character in DA2.

This leads on to the new dialogue wheel, which was disappointing. In Origins, the silent PC meant that you had to be given enough information as to know what he had said, and the companions had to react strongly enough for it to have meaning. It meant that you had to learn about the characters and understand them. For example, talk about love to Morrigan and you get negative points. Talk about love to Leliana and you get bonus points. Pursuing a romance was something you had to work towards by understanding the character. In DA2, you simply choose a personality for Hawke and you're done. Simply mass-click on that personality and nothing bad can happen, because the simple dialogue choices you make don't affect anything. To pursue a romance, just click the love heart symbol when it pops up and you're done. Instead of trying to work a romance, you simply decide to do one, and you cannot fail. It takes away the challenge but also means that there's no need to get to know any of the characters because what you say has no impact. In Origins, if you said the wrong thing, you would lose approval points and they would dislike you more, as is realistic. In DA2, you say the wrong thing and get rivalry points, which works almost exactly the same as friendship points, but with slightly different bonuses. It just makes the whole point of conversing pointless. It wasn't as bad as I feared though, since major choices don't have the dialogue icons.

As for gameplay, it has been severely dumbed down. Skills are completely removed while inventory management is severely streamlined. The majority of items use generic names like 'dagger', 'superior dagger', 'belt', 'ring', 'amulet', etc, with just a few having actual names. This is completely unnecessary and I'm at a loss as to how anybody felt it was a good idea. All it does it add to the frustration in customisation. I initially thought that I liked the idea of not being able to give armour to party members, since I never wanted to put Morrigan in immaculate Circle robes, for example, as it made some of the dialogue options not make sense. It would be more consistent. Maybe if the rest of the gameplay was not so dumbed down, the whole companion armour thing could have worked, but all it did was take even further from the sense of actually playing an RPG. Allowing boots and gloves would have been nice.

The new ability trees are good and a nice improvement from Origins. As are the new tactics options; I particularly like the 'use this reqirement for the next tactic'. It's such a shame that the combat is hit or miss. Many people seem to like it but I'm going to give my opinion from a PC point of view in that the combat is nowhere near as tactical as the original game. The fights are like chores, and you spend a lot more time fighting than you did in Origins. The enemies come in waves by spawning out of thin air and you fight massive groups. It's unrealistic that a group of 4 could take down hundreds of mercenaries consecutively, but again, DA2 has much bigger problems that things like this hardly matter. Still, the combat itself is definitely more action-orientated, which I personally don't think works in a game where the character auto-attacks.

My favourite part of the game were the Origins references. Nothing else in DA2 really struck me as being great or was particularly memorable. Overall, Bioware have tried to fix what isn't broken. Compared to many other games, it's a success with terrific voice acting and pretty good companions. However, Origins was just so much better and it's sad to see such a great formula ignored.

7.5/10

[joslittle]

I had a lot of fun playing still, but to be honest the story just felt way smaller than it did in Origins. And I didn't feel like my choices really had any drastic effect on the outcome of the templar/mage storyline. I had fun with the re-tooled combat. Unfortunatley, with so many repeated areas, in what was already geographically a very small space, it was very hard to make the game feel epic, or to make Hawke feel like an equal to the hero of ferelden. The romances also felt shallow most of the time, and that they didn't seem to weave into the game's story, unless your with Anders I guess, (honestly, I didn't even like him in Awakening.) I feel kinda dissapointed but maybe with some amazing DLC or the eventual sequel we can get back to something a little grander than what I have so far experienced in Dragon age 2. (I will say this, I really did enjoy the Qunari storyline,)

Modifié par joslittle, 01 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[joslittle]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

What does impact the immersion of the game is the locations. The game runs over a 7-year period, split into 3 sections. Know that once you have finished section 1, you will never see a new location ingame. I would like to address the common argument here that the game is based in one city and therefore that was the point; I know this, but that doesn't make it a good thing. Putting the entire game in one city is a fault, not an excuse. The game couldn't get away with being set in one house, and using that as an excuse. The fact is - it's boring to see the same locations constantly, and they don't change all that much contrary to what Bioware might say. Now I'm reluctant to give this next point because it means coming down to the level of agreeing that the game being in one city is a valid excuse, but it must be said that the same locations are reused 10+ times each for different purposes, such as caves, warehouses, etc. The brothel is the same as all 5+ mansions you will encounter during the game, for example. This draws away from the immersion terribly, and is pure laziness. So this is split into two problems; first the fact that explore the same locations, with all the side-quests in the same places, and secondly that the same assets were used for apparently different locations.

Now while we touched on the subject of the game's timespan, I'll continue down that path. The game does not do a very good job of making this realistic at all. You will jump forward 3 years and then have characters come up to you and talk as if it's the next day. Honestly - the gap could have been a few days and it would have ran just as smoothly, if not more so.

I agree about the repetition and the characters attitudes being identical after years. Maybe it would have been better if the city were different based on your choices in the game. Like if Kirkwall was significantly damaged from the Qunari invasion. Or if based on your decision to support the mages or the templars, Kirkwall was more lawless with magic being seen everywhere or similar to a police state with templars on every corner harassing citizens and arresting anyone who might be a mage. I think the city thing could have possibly worked but the city just didn't feel alive to me, very little seemed to change with time.

[Alex Kershaw]

joslittle wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

What does impact the immersion of the game is the locations. The game runs over a 7-year period, split into 3 sections. Know that once you have finished section 1, you will never see a new location ingame. I would like to address the common argument here that the game is based in one city and therefore that was the point; I know this, but that doesn't make it a good thing. Putting the entire game in one city is a fault, not an excuse. The game couldn't get away with being set in one house, and using that as an excuse. The fact is - it's boring to see the same locations constantly, and they don't change all that much contrary to what Bioware might say. Now I'm reluctant to give this next point because it means coming down to the level of agreeing that the game being in one city is a valid excuse, but it must be said that the same locations are reused 10+ times each for different purposes, such as caves, warehouses, etc. The brothel is the same as all 5+ mansions you will encounter during the game, for example. This draws away from the immersion terribly, and is pure laziness. So this is split into two problems; first the fact that explore the same locations, with all the side-quests in the same places, and secondly that the same assets were used for apparently different locations.

Now while we touched on the subject of the game's timespan, I'll continue down that path. The game does not do a very good job of making this realistic at all. You will jump forward 3 years and then have characters come up to you and talk as if it's the next day. Honestly - the gap could have been a few days and it would have ran just as smoothly, if not more so.

I agree about the repetition and the characters attitudes being identical after years. Maybe it would have been better if the city were different based on your choices in the game. Like if Kirkwall was significantly damaged from the Qunari invasion. Or if based on your decision to support the mages or the templars, Kirkwall was more lawless with magic being seen everywhere or similar to a police state with templars on every corner harassing citizens and arresting anyone who might be a mage. I think the city thing could have possibly worked but the city just didn't feel alive to me, very little seemed to change with time.

But the problem with that is the underlying issue of the lack of actual decisions. For example, you don't make the decision to support templars or mages until very, very late in the game, and even then it affects nothing. The Quanari will also always invade too. Overall, there are very, very few decisions that Hawke makes that could be justified in having a large affect on the city of Kirkwall.

[DaVeO52]

I finished it this morning, tried to last night but I was falling asleep (not because of the game) and was dying too often (Two Pride Demons!).

Loves

-The Characters: This motley group has become my new favorite RP crew since Origins. The banter is the best I think you've ever done and I have strong feelings for each and everyone. From Isabela's hilarious and inappropiate comments to Varric's steadfast loyalty to Aveline's committed friendship and Merrill's sweet disposition. I just felt more connected with all these "people."  Kudos to the writers because this was a homerun.

-The City: Kirkwall was grand. It made Denerim look like a town in the boondocks. I loved the distinct look that each area had, but I also liked that the streets were not jammed with citizens. Seeing as that the game had collision detection it would have made navigating the areas a real chore.

-Homebases: From your uncle's hovel to the family mansion. From The Hanged Man to The Chantry Cathedral. From Fenris's captured estate to Merrill's simple home and Ander's Clinic it all set the atmosphere for conversations and allowed the characters to roam and not just stay rooted. Also thanks for allowing map shortcuts to said areas once unlocked. Perhaps a quick way out would have been good as well.

-The Plot: Or rather plots. I very much enjoyed my, er, I mean Hawke's rise to power, for me, it was a nice break from "World Ending Threat of the Week" that I've played sooooo many times elsewere. Each chapter had in my eyes a well defined main plot with secondary, companion and side quests to add flavour, as well as foreshadowing future developments.

-Battle!: More visceral, more nail biting, more blood. The combat was a ballet of death with better character animations all around. Boy was that fun. I played on hard mode for the vast majority of it and found just as much challenge here as I did in Origins. I loved the enemy respawns as it added a heightened sense of urgency and I had to think quickly in order to adjust my placement of characters and aggro management. Granted I play MMO's and do a lot of raiding so this type of combat I'm quite used to, others of course have disagreed.
Suggestion: More logical spawn points needed. Sky drops look silly.

Romance: I romanced both Isabela and Merrill, the first was just flitation with Isabela but I completed the romance with Merrill. Much more satisfying then Origins which tended to be too talky. Not all romance needs to have countless turns of interactions. Isabella was actions over words where Merrill happened with more a feeling of mutual understanding and trust.
Here the dialogue was more to the point and less beating around the bush, also made with more emotion. The removing each others daggers before falling into bed with Isabela was light and fun. Where as Merrill's passions which were always kept in check (except for the odd verbal slip) instead bursting out as she kissed Hawke for the first time was much, much more realistic then the soap opera that was Origins.

Likes
-Enviroments: The enviroments were a step up in terms of graphics, no doubt. The sky was gorgeous, the water shimmered. Lighting and shadows were well done too.

-Style: Gotta admit, the Qunari were pretty fantastic looking. Elves took awhile to get used to but then I figured, well why does every elf HAVE to be good looking like in Origins? lol. You had some fairly ugly elves here and it certainly added variety. The returning Origins characters slid in to this style easily, I mean there wasn't anyone I didn't recognise because of the change.

-Companion Equipment: I said this before as I started playing but I'll say it again, thanks for simplyfying this. No reason why I should pay dress-up with my companions. I find them new improvements and there ya go. Taking out boots, gauntlets and helms shaved off a lot of tedious time better spent on quests. Hawke's equipment looked great btw and the helmet toggle was a nice touch that I implemented when I didn't have matching sets of armour.

-Crafting/Items: Someone mentioned earlier that they enjoyed traipsing through the woods looking for crafting materials in Origins. Boy, am I ever their opposite. I hate crafting in MMO's, I hated crafting in Origins and Awakenings (oh god, the Rune crafting still gives me nightmares) and I dreaded having to do it here. Thankfully it was a lot less painful.The resources idea borrowd from Awakenings (via the upgrading the Keep quest) made me very happy. Not to mention giving me more bag space and not having to worry about components.
The cutting down of number of poisons, restorative and buffing drinks was also appreciated. I didn't miss any of the ones that were exclusive to Origins and Awakenings.

-Sandal and Bodahn: Nice to see them return and the enigna that is Sandal continues. Why do I have the feeling that DA 3 will be set in and around Orlais?

-Dog: This little off-tank add-on that I got with my Sig Ed of the game saved my life more times then I can remember. Even though he was summoned like a ranger pet you still gave us many interactions with him that you didn't need to do and that was much appreciated. Merrill's telling the story of the Dread Wolf to him was a highlight.

Tough Decisions: The pinnacle decision with Anders was the hardest game decision I ever had to do (Origins:Sleep with Morrigan or die, hmm, let me think abo- I'LL DO IT.") The outcome of which changes the World of DA even more interestingly then the standred "Darkness covers the land" that would have happened in Origins.

Dislike

-Repeating maps has been talked to death so I won't get into it here.

-Enemies getting to drink potions even when four of us are pounding on them. I get smacked once and unless I'm Aveline with Immovable activated it's going to interrupt me and if I'm not assuming direct control they'll forget to take the action.

-Trash treasure at first I didn't care about and a few pieces even game me a chuckle, but it was really unnesasary and should just be replaced with money.

-No real sense of time passing. Perhaps setting each chapter during a different season would have aided this.

-Deep Roads was too short and not really scary. Origins and Awakenings really did a fantantastic job with making you feel lost in a labrynth of caves and tunnels where as DA 2 just felt like a bigger cave with only one way to really go.

-Ending too brief. Not enough wrap-up and rushed which is pretty much the antithesis of what a RPG should give you. Even a series of stills showing the Champion fighting side by side with his companions or spending quiter moments especially with his LI as Varric talks to the Seeker. Then the dwarf saying WHY each left and what they told Hawke before they did so would have been nice. Compared to Origins and Awakenings this was not very good.

Also the fact I apparently had a glitch in my play that resulted in Varric telling the Seeker that "all left Hawke, except for Isabela of course". WHA!? No, Merrill..Merrill was my LI by the end. So I hope that gets repaired for the next import.

-Importing woes: Seems the only import that acknowledged my Warden's story from Origins was Origins itself. Awakenings, Golems, Witch Hunt all said I did not complete Origins on that save on my xbox 360. Wasn't so bad in that the pre-set background for Awakenings pretty much coincided with my choices in the game (everyone lived) but it wasn't the case for my wife who as I said earlier had to kill Justice and Sigrun.
She went with the Witch Hunt import at first and it really messed up the Warden's background. Suffice to say she started over. Would have been a bigger deal for me because my Warden went with Morrigan in Witch Hunt, how will that play out in the future now that I continued into DA 2 with only my Origins background?


There we go. I think a few tweaks were all that were needed and not the complete overhaul many were wanting. I as well as my wife extremely enjoyed our time in Kirkwall and will definitly do another playthough. Looking forward to future DLC which judging by the autosave at the end of DA 2, will move the story forwards rather then go back during earlier times.

[amat3rasu]

I'll keep it short (and as sweet as I can)

Awesome visuals/audio/voiceover/characters (especially Fenris..by God his voice raises the hairs at my nape) and really addictive combat! Best combat so far among all RPG's I have played (and that's including Legend of the Dragoons..lol jk)

Anyway, what I didn't like: Predictable storyline/Weak follow-up to DA;O (feels like DA:O's really huge and less interesting friend) I said LESS interesting..not uninteresting..mark you!

What I want: Better character stories/better overall plot (I get that this sets the stage for the next game..but still Closure guys! We need it and deserver it! Atleast to a certain amount and NO DLC that picks up from where Hawke disappeared please... that'd be just unfair for all who spent quite a lot of money just to play this game). And finally..  at least have the characters change their costumes once in few years pretty please? Love you guys BW and waiting for more of your epic storytelling which has always been your core strength (this from a NWN,ME,KotOR and DA fan)!!

Modifié par amat3rasu, 01 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

There's one thing that I see this game being assassinated for over and over again, and it's the lack of "epicness" in the story. In the first game, you're a Warden with a gripping origins story that pulls you in almost immediately, immersion being the name of the game. The beginning of this, the Second game, was a little lacking, and it takes probably until Kirkwall for you to feel a real connection to Hawke. And then in Origins, you rise from a lowly nothing (most times a criminal being saved from the axe/noose/jail by Duncan conscripting you) to one of the only surviving wardens hell bent on saving all of Ferelden from certain destruction. In DA2, you're...a refugee, trying to make enough cash to buy your family a proper house? And you have to work odd jobs in order to do it? Where's the weighty hand of fate in THAT story?

But here's why I love it. Many moons ago I was an avid reader of Terry Goodkind's Wizard's First Rule; I ate it up like sweet, sweet nectar. I loved the characters, the reeling weight of the story and the sheer catastrophic consequences if their mission failed. Epic! World in danger! What's going to happen!! I finished the book, world saved (sorry if I spoiled the ending for anyone who didn't have the two brain cells to rub together and guess it anyway) Started on the next one, and...lo and behold! after near 500 pages of agony, questing, and finally triumphing over this enormous evil that threatened the world, the world was...being threatened again? Okay, I could do this. I trudged through the book, enjoyed the storytelling kind of winced my way through another series of agony inducing, now-seemingly-over-dramatic quests (you know, since they'd already done all this before) and got to the end of the book. Triumph once again! Yay! I moved on, opened the third book, and you wouldn't beleive my surprise when I discovered that all that peace that the heroes had fought for (twice) was once again on the brink of being shattered by some world-ending event.

As you can probably guess, I stopped reading about 40 pages into the third book, because the world can only be threatened so many times before a girl stops taking the whole crisis seriously. Like the boy that cried wolf, Richard Rahl cried "We're All going to DIE!" too many times and I simply stopped caring. Having this lesson buried deep within my very extensive and quite attractive brain, I was actually somewhat pleasantly surprised when Dragon Age 2's plotline developed slowly, like sipping on a good dessert tequila, and not once was "we're all going to die" mentioned, except maybe a few times under our breaths in the first 4 minutes of the game. I was never called on to save the world. In fact, the world wasn't really threatened in my neighborhood. Ferelden's Blight and subsequent chaos was sort of a far off nuisance that I didn't have to worry about anymore, and the every day grinds and whines of life seemed way more important. (Who cares about darkspawn when you have slavers in your family estate? It was, very appropriately, somebody else's problem). I was somewhat impressed with this approach to storytelling; Bioware was posing a normal everyday (okay, not normal, a very talented and above average) human as the protagonist of the tale, someone who's simply trying to create a better life for themselves and through their methods of doing so ends up being the catalyst in a mage rebellion that ends up affecting the whole world. Instead of being the hero that has to jump in a save everyone from a mess that they didn't create, we're actually...the guy that kind of starts the mess.

Intriguing. No matter which way you look at it now, your character is going to be both hero and villain. No matter what your intentions, the results are out of your control. The road to hell is paved in good intentions and this game does not very much to satisfy the urge to be seen as a bigshot epic hero. Even "Champion" comes with playing Mommy and Daddy between Orsino and Meredith and eventually, even if you don't want to, you're forced to side with one or the other.

I can see why this would be unsatisfying for a majority of mouth-breathers who need to fantasize about dominating a vast, all encompassing evil, who always need to get the girl, or who simply dream about becoming so powerful that they're able to beat down every slack-jawed, well-muscled, corrupted thug paralleling all of our highschool bullies with a sweep of their compensating-for-something giant broadsword, with the final battle and defeat of the all encompassing evil gaining the respect, admiration, and jealousy of everyone and anyone around them. No one would ever shove THIS guy into a locker. And if they did, he'd punch his way out and then eat the face off of the first person he saw. Some of us slightly more socially adept nerds who were fortunate enough to be born with high cheekbones and a skill for applying mascara can still get into a story like this. And we actually get along with characters like Morrigan who remind us of ourselves; obviously outside of the norm and not very good at fitting in, but so into not giving a sh*t about what anyone thinks that they reek "cool" instead of "I'm desperate for someone to like me" (ugh Merril) or else simply all-out reeking (which Morrigan might have done, she did live in a swamp.)

The point being; there is no black and white, and your character isn't really good or evil, whether or not they try to be either. You are what your actions dictate, and the results of your actions are full of so much grey it's a wonder you haven't bought Just for Men to cover it up by Act 3. Most of you defend a woman who's a thief and who's actions lead to the deaths of hundreds of Qunari and humans both, and the destruction of half the town just because you're sleeping with her. (who ever really turns Isabela over?) The same for a mage who blows up a "church" and kills hundreds of innocents simply because he's got a nasty little second personality that doesn't like compromise. ("But I love him!") These are, strangely enough, very very real sorts of choices that we all make every day in real life. Because people aren't perfect, heros aren't perfect heroes and villains aren't perfect villains. It's not that easy.

So, in short, I love this game. Yes, some of the character models looked weird. (Being a designer, I can understand the need to visually change something that was just fine the way it was simply because you're sick of looking at it.) The character interactions were more realistic; they developed relationships over the 6 years of the game even though some of them have nothing in common. Some of them even change because of these relationships (Fenris' growing sense of humor thanks to exposure to Varric's jokes, and Aveline and Isabela's unprecedented friendship.) Isn't that the way it should be? Isn't that what happens when groups of people live, fight, and bleed togehter? Doesn't it make the rebelllion and destruction in Kirkwall (multiple times) that much sadder, because you've brought these random people together and created a life with them in these places?

To me, complaining that the character models weren't pretty enough is sort of like ****ing that the Venus de Milo doesn't have any arms. A piece of art is still a piece of art. Brilliant job, Bioware; I remain forever yours.

xoxo

Short Cake Slayer

[head busta 42]

Overall DA2 is a pretty good game. The problem is Bioware has made some of the best games I have ever played and DA2 just is not as good as the others.

The combat was fun for a while being fast paced, but every skill is on such a long cooldown for being fast paced that most of the time we are stuck auto attacking. That would be ok if we could upgrade to more combos and get other animations, but the same animations, long cooldowns and repetitive battles kind of ruin a potenially great combat system.

The story was decent enough but did not feel epic. Hawke just doesent feel as significant as the warden. The main reason was because the WHOLE game took place in the same city. Champion of Kirkwall (1 city) vs Hero of Fereldon (whole nation). DA:O took place over a huge area with interesting caves and dungeons. The rehashed dungeons in DA2 felt like a slap in the face and just seems like no effort was put into them. I was also hoping to gather and have an army at my disposal (like in DA:O archdemon battle) to have an epic battle.

Why was equipping party members with armor removed? 2/3 of the armor is vendor trash now and we have no say on how our teams armor stats are. Also replace the junk items with gold. Spend time making other suff.  Why were the DA:O type party camp conversations removed? I thought it was a good way to get to know your party members better.

The import bugs and significance of DA:O choices are annoying. I made decisions in DA:O that I would like to see impact the story in different ways. I understand theres not much they could do since Hawke is a different character and its not in Fereldon anymore, but the DA:O choices impact DA2 VERY little. Nate thinks I let the architect live when I killed him in awakening.

Modifié par head busta 42, 02 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[atheelogos]

I loved the game and all, but one thing that stands out and bugs me is the fact your brother/sister has to die in the beginning. I'm not sure why you guys went this route. Hawke has known this person for 18 years, but I haven't no them for more than 10 minutes. Why should I care that they died?

The only way this death has any meaning is if you get to know the Character that died by replaying the game with a class where they live. Only then will you miss them.

What would have been much better is if they both lived but where still taken away from you. For example your mother only lets you take 1 sibling with you on the deep roads expedition. For me lets say I choose to leave Bethany and bring Carver. Carver becomes and Grey Warden and leaves for most of the game, and Bethany is taken to the Circle upon your return. That would hurt a lot more than some silly death at the beginning that didn't mean anything.

And then at the end of the game Hawke and Carver make peace and they run across Bethany on there way to stop the Templars. The three children of Hawke marching on the Gallows would have been a much better story imo. Still love the game though. : )