1012 réponses à ce sujet

[frustratemyself]

DA2 fan review (novella) – Bioware must be more careful what they wish for
 
I am a female gamer playing on PC. I almost exclusively play as a female character. I have started one male Hawke but have not finished that run.
Overall I love DA2, I’ve played through about 8 times now the shiny new has rubbed off but I’m still enjoying.
 
Likes


[*]Having your mage or archer automatically switch to melee when they are being attacked with a melee attack is great and far more practical.

[*]Mages now look awesome in a fight and the visual of the different elemental attacks with different staves is very cool.

[*]The speed of the combat. In DAO I only ever played through once as a warrior (as a DW to get the momentum skill) cause they drove me nuts that they seemed to be moving through quick sand. I am currently doing my first warrior play through in DA2 and loving the speedy carnage.

[*]The R button, I believe this is the rumoured awesome button. When all the enemies you’re facing are critter ranked it gets annoying to have to point and click on each one to attack. It’s nice to be able to throw yourself at the closest one. I think it helps the combat flow better and was a very welcome addition.

[*]The character movements in combat are fun to watch, especially DW rogues. Good old fashioned kung-fu-ish fun.

[*]Fully voiced Hawke. After playing ME & ME2 it was a relief to get a voice in DA2. Going back playing DAO it’s a little disconcerting to play a mute.

[*]Anders. I know a lot of people have ****ed about Bioware murdering their beloved apostate but I like where his character was taken. Playing Awakenings now he comes of as a bit cheesy there (in a good way), desperately using humour to cover up the anger and angst. This is gone in DA2, he’s more focused because of Justice and so earnest because the facade is gone (furrowed brows & sad brown eyes *sigh*). I hope we see more of him later but I have a nasty feeling that his plot armour disintegrated when most players got out the murder knife.

[*]The relationships with your companions (friend or romance). They were very well done with a lot of real emotion in there (for me anyway). The friendship with Aveline was a highlight. Even though she doesn’t always agree with you (and says so) she still has your back. I never manage to be friends with Merril, I just disagree with her too much. But I still like the relationship with her I think it was well done with the level of complexity. You try to save her from herself and you clash then but she is otherwise still nice to you when you are nice to her.

[*]The romance scenes were well done, sweet or a bit more saucy depending on your LI. Not quite as good as ME but it came close for me.

[*]The companions in general. I like all of them and love most, I don’t actually outright hate any of them. Even if I don’t like them on some points there are other points that redeem them for me that makes for an interesting relationship.

[*]The dialogue wheel and tone icons. Less reading to take me out of the moment, always a good thing for nerdy role-play purposes.

[*]The different personalities of Hawke and differently toned dialogue options. I usually play as a goody-goody but I love that you can be a total smart ass when the mood takes you. I don’t know if this is something that has been done in other games but I loved that you didn’t have to be just good or evil. Someone on the forums pointed out that what makes witty Hawke funnier is that she seems to be the only one that thinks she is funny. Definite win.

[*]The visuals. Recycling aside, the environments in game looked great. The wounded coast scenery in particular was very well done.

[*]That sustainable spell/ability auras don’t show outside of combat. They did get annoying to see all the time in DAO but then I am lazy and don’t usually bother deactivating sustainables on my character.

[*]The hide helmets option. Love this because I want to see my hair damnit.

[*]Party banter, this is always awesome. I love that it does help give you more of an insight into the (sometimes) perverted minds of your companions. Also nice to see how they interact with each other and form friendships i.e. Aveline and Isabela.

[*]New conditions in the tactics screen. The additions of conditions relating to party health or multiple characters and ally status dead etc were needed and good to see.[/list]Dislikes



[*]The lack of character interaction. While we don’t need to go back to being quite as rambling as DAO it would be nice if there was more. The level of interaction with your companions in ME2 was well done. It just seemed a bit lacking in DA2.

[*]The friendship/rivalry system. I have put this in the dislike category only because I think it could have been done better because it was too simplistic. From what I read of the rivalry it was described as a sort of friendship where even if you don’t agree on a lot of things you still have quite a bit of respect for each other. When you rival Fenris for example he seems downright hostile particularly when you try to be nice to him. With Anders I think the relationship (friend or romance) could have been a lot more complex. Even if you agree with him on the subject of mage freedom you won’t necessarily agree with him about merging with Justice (particularly if you play as a mage).  If you are pro-mage freedom but rack up rivalry points by bagging him for willingly becoming an abomination he rants like you are the Knight-Commanders ****. However if you leave him to wallow in Darktown most of the time while you play pro-circle/templar then be nice to him when you do visit, he compliments you about how much you’ve done for mages and what a shining example you are for them.
I think this may be due to the actual characters having a rather one sided view of things due to their own experiences but still.  I also didn’t like that the friendship/rivalry is locked once it reaches 100% in either direction, I would prefer it could still be changes either direction depending on your actions like in DAO.

[*]The environment recycling. It’s no wonder Merril keeps getting lost, there are apparently only 2 streets, 2 caves and 2 building in all of the Free Marches. This is not real life where you are saving the real environment. In a video game this level of recycling is murder and I suddenly have the lemmings background music in my head which disturbs me no end. The recycled background people around Kirkwall are also disturbing to look at. This may be politically incorrect to say (I’m Australian so get over it) but most of them look like they have Downs Syndrome, especially around the docks.

[*]The fight with the Arishok. Enough said.

[*]Not enough tactics slots. Some characters with more passive than activated abilities are fine to run on more simplified tactics and I don’t use them all. However ones like Anders or Aveline end up needing a bit more micromanagement which gets annoying. I’m playing as Hawke, I don’t want to have to keep switching to Anders to get him to deactivate bloody vengeance and heal himself before he becomes a pretty stain on the ground. I think I saw somewhere that Anders tactics are a bit boinked anyway which doesn’t help.

[*]The amount of bugs in this game on release. It just makes it seem rushed and half assed.

[*]The story seems to flounder at times. In act 1 you have a goal to make cash and get into the deep roads. In act 2 you have the Qunari, your friends and your love life to keep you busy. Then when you get to act 3 you get ambushed by the mage/templar fighting. It then kind of feels like you are running around waiting for the sword to drop. It feels weird when there does not seem to have been enough build up to the final showdown. In act 1 you did have the mage/templar issue keep coming up but in act 2 it was forgotten about except for the Dissent & Underground Railroad quests. Otherwise you just went happily along until the Arishok blew his top. In act 3 everyone who is against Meredith automatically assumes that you are happily working with her. That has not been the case for most of my play throughs but it seems to have been handled poorly. Maybe time ran short in development but still...

[*]Lack of reaction to your character being a mage. You do get some reaction from your companions but if other people in Kirkwall (ie templars) notice you there should be more to it. There is a vague mention in act 1 in conversation with Carver but shouldn’t Hawke have some kind of run in/confrontation with templars at some point that happens because they are chasing her not just because of her bleeding heart tendencies. You may say this would have been too difficult to be practical but it was done in Vampire: The Masquerade if you played as a Nosferatu. Would have added an interesting element and helped with the immersion for us role-play nerds.

[*]Lack of reaction if you specialise as a blood mage. The way Fenris and Anders rage about blood mages and dealing with demons there should have been a reaction here not blind hand wave in the name of game play mechanics.

[*]Exploding bodies. This is funny but very silly. When you see the neat little pile of body parts at your feet it always makes me think of Lego Star Wars when you kill an enemy and they explode into Lego blocks.[/list]Undecided



[*]I’m in two minds about the pared down skill trees. I do like that it is less cluttered. In DAO there were some skills that I never used but would end up taking cause I had extra spell/talent points to use up. At the same time there are spells/talents that I miss not having that maybe should have been included as an outright option or as an upgrade for an existing spells/talents.

[*]Sebastian. I know he is a DLC character so would never be as fleshed out as your other companions but half the time I forget he exists. The only time I really drag him around is for his personal quests otherwise I leave him to cool his heels in the chantry. I think it is a shame as he could have been a very interesting element to the story. I play pro-mage freedom and Sebastian often annoys the hell out of me because he is so pro-circle/templar. It just would have made for an interesting counterpoint if he was a larger part of the story. As it is he gets an apathetic hand wave when he storms back to Starkhaven in a huff at the end of act 3.[/list] 
Summing up I love the game but it feels like more time should have been spent on it. I think there was probably more planned to go into this game but was left out due to time constraints (maybe EA put pressure on to keep the cash cow alive before people forgot about this franchise) or because Bioware assumed they needed to dumb things down to try and appeal to a wider demographic. Either way it is a shame because it does takes away from the high points.
 
Final score 8.5/10 – For the love of god I’ve rambled enough when this is stretching onto 4 pages and I’m supposed to be working.
Edit for formatting purposes.

Modifié par frustratemyself, 28 avril 2011 - 03:23 .

[kromify]

seems like everything's been covered!

though i would like companions to remember hawkes political decisions. anders was absolutely convinced that i supported templars on my pro-mage playthrough when really she just yelled at him for merging with justice.

[DownyTif]

 I started a thread for a personal review here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/7233889

I did it in a different thread because I didn't notice this sticky and anyway I wanted to discuss with repliers if there is any. Enjoy the long read!!

[beserker7]

Anyone who finished both DAO and DA2 should conclude(given the short development time for DA2) that DA2 is both; a quality sequel to DAO and a high quality stand alone game overall.

High points for me were some of the new charatcers, like Hawke(his look, story, armor sets and being fully voiced, Varric, Fenris, Meredith, having in game party dialog, the overall look and feel of combat and the story telling.

Weak points for DA2, for me, was the lack of another strong female romance. Aveline has "man-face jawline", the writing for Isabela was too stupidly ****ty at times and Merill is a girl who cuts herself and says weird, roll your eyes, type things. Leliana and Morrigan were both far superior to any of these choices and as a straight male character, having these three gals with more males hitting on me than females, throughout the game, was annoying.  Please give the male straight characters more options in future Bioware titles.  A few more open cut scenes of the city or open area levels to make the game feel less bottled up would have been nice too.

Overall great sequel, good storytelling and the key scenes and big fights were done as good as any game Bioware has done.  The cool/wow factor of the final missions were equal with Mass Effect 1 & 2 and DAO, at least.  Being a Beserker/Reaver never felt so good.  Thanks, Bioware.

Modifié par beserker7, 29 avril 2011 - 02:19 .

[mutant70]

As a geek from long before we ran the whole world, some thoughts from a old lady who has been playing rpg video games since Bard's Tale.  (Which, yikes. That really dates me.)

Enjoyed the game tremendously -- didn't go in with expectations of playing DA Origins -- and while cool at first to the new combat style, ended up liking the speed. Some of the effects, definitely, "Oooh. Shiny." (Made judicious use of the pause button, as I play on the PC.) But I like to see things changed up, companies trying to take the genre in new directions. Don't get me wrong, I loved me some Baldur's Gates and Neverwinter Nights... but I don't necessarily want to play a particular style of rpg in perpetuity.

Quite liked the fact that the storyline was not another 'assemble your team to fight the Big Bad at the end.'

Don't understand the hue and cry about choice or lack thereof. All rpgs (other than perhaps pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons) have rails. In DA 1: you basically choose who will rule Ferelden and Orzammar, and whether some other people die. Sure, you choose race and background, but ultimately, what happens doesn't vary all that much. You kill the various creatures with a resemblance to those in the Tolkien universe (orcs, dragons, wraiths), do various minor quests in which you fetch an object for an NPC (after killing more creatures), go up levels, rinse and repeat. And you keep running into characters that have direct relevance to your ultimate quest to get rid of the Big Bad. Periodically, you have to kill something bigger and tougher (a boss.) Eventually, you get to the Big Bad.

What separates games are the getting there. Bioware did a very good job, in my opinion, of the process of 'getting there' in this game. Several times it just shocked me. The only part where the story lacked, I felt, was the at the very end.
In multiple playthroughs, I took turns siding with the Templars and then
Mages.  Orsino going all blood mage after I'd sided with the Mages
surprised me -- that event still could have been done -- but they needed
a trigger event, the possibilities are endless really, given how out
the control the templars (directed by Meredith) got. 

Where the writing really shone, I believe, is in the characters (awesome! nuanced if you paid attention) and the general themes the game explored. This is getting ridiculously long, but one example: the exploration of whether the 'ends justify the means.' The game posed that question again and again (in my mind in a good way.) Anders? Sr. Patrice? Meredith? The Blood Mages? The Arishok? Merrill?  All of them committed acts (that my Hawke at least) found reprehensible, all in the name of some [insert higher purpose here.] 

[Sloimpreza]

Combat - I think it has come a long way from DA O to speed things up for people like me that has short attention spans. I think the number of enemies on screen is about the same but more waves (perhaps things learned from ME2?) which is nice so that you feel like you are taking down more foes in a battle without being overwhelmed with a relatively small party.
I think the talent trees are quite interesting. Also the combat combos are fun to use. Later on these are really the things that needs to be exploited to get through the battles by using several classes. I think mages can still dominate with a variety of crowd control and damaging options and large mana pools.
Thank you for making archers more interesting and effective to play with.
Again would love to see more weapon types and related skill trees.

Graphics - I think the new artistic direction is great. There are still some graphical glitches here and there where certain things are transparent or not appearing at all. Have to say it is much better than ME2 where sometimes ppl show up with no legs or clipping through background ppl etc. Great changes and the background details are improved across all platforms.
I know 2 yrs is not enough to make DA2 as rich an experience as DA O so the limited amount of environments are fine. You did build an entire city. But I expect DLC to take place away from Kirkwall and with varying locales.

I think the journey is interesting. After DA O always thought that the only real way to explore more of this world is to set it at the least several years after the events so that the choices that were made could take effect. So we watch Hawke live his/her life in Kirkwall and see things change is a great thing.
Another great feature is certain quests/storylines are unfolded through different Acts. Again something like this would not have been possible in how DA O was designed when the event was so urgent. Quests or storylines did not have to end with a dungeon crawl or being a fetch quest. Understand that it is very time consuming to write multiple paths and endings to so many quests but it would be great to see some of them not having to end bloody all the time. I think the overall story is that things are going to go bad regardless of what you do, but then it kind of defeats the purpose of the choice involved.
What it lacked were actual changes to Kirkwall after Hawke did so many things for the city. For example after all the mercenaries that I had killed in different sections of the city, I have not noticed any actual changes. Honestly mercenaries in RPGs are like fish in the sea, but I have killed quite a few of them but how about they try to kill me with some tougher guys or even try to bribe me a little. I am not adverse to some coin to look the other way. Perhaps I can even invest in the mercenary program in Kirkwall. May hap take a page from another game and have my own group of mercenaries I can send on jobs that I am too busy to do.
Perhaps you might be given some options between Acts to make some choices on how you would spend you time ~
Spend time cleaning up the streets - net you some exp + attribute bonuses maybe even a passive talent when you get into your next Act and b/c the streets are safer you could have more merchants with new items.
Spend time being a politician/increasing influence - net you more gold + 10% off Hightown vendors. Also in the next Act you get a bigger manson and new conversation options b/c you are much more influential.
Perhaps you are more of an adventurer and you spend you days venturing out in search of treasure and whatever else you find on adventures. So you get some exp and a piece of nice gear/weapon/unique rune/potion/etc

Companions - changes to how the armor is setup I think is a good idea. B4 you had to carry around so many armor pieces it became a bit of a logistics problem. I think the way it is handled now is a lot more streamline. With limited backpack store space without having to lug around 3 other sets of armor is great.
Since you are giving armor upgrades to the companions as well, those should really be visual as changes as well.
Great to see Companions all get their own unique talent tree which sets it a part from what Hawke can do.

[mangiraffe dog000]

Spam removed. 

RI

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 02 mai 2011 - 06:06 .

[LadyVaJedi]

mangiraffe dog000 you are reported again.

[Marille]

I approve of:
- Companions. It was always your strong point, Bioware. I love how they seem to have their own outlook on life, jobs, activities, how they liked/hated each other.  I think Aveline, Varric and Anders were most memorable. 
- Personal story. Having a family, lover, life outside all that fighting.  It was really well done,  I could feel that my Hawke cared about her loved ones - especially during and after "All that remains". (Leandra:()
- Anders friend romance was lovely. His love scene was very sweet and tasteful.
- NPCs. Leandra, Bodahn & Sandal, Ketojan, Arishok, Jethann, Cullen, Keeper Marethari, Elthina, Orsino, Meredith...virtually everyone.
- Having no chance of compromise in the end. I like compromises, but sometimes, you have to make a difficult choice between two evils.
- I'm not a fan of elves new look, but hey, now they look like different race, not little, skinny humans with pointy ears! On the other hand, new qunari are great. (And if Arishok looked like his CGI version, HE would be forced to run away during that damned duel, not Hawke;))
- Kirkwall. So much better than Denerim. It is no longer Random Medieval Fantasy City. The Lowtown is my favorite area.
- MUSIC!
- New body models, armors, robes, hoods, hairstyles. No more pineapple thingy on my Hawke's head! Oh, and thank you for the "hide helmet" option.
- Heart icon: it was very handy. I could avoid Isabella/Merrill advances, as I'm not interested in these two.
- Hawke's VA. I was ok with silent Warden, but it's nice to hear your character speak.
- VA in general.

I disapprove of:
- Lack of Coercion skill.  Why? It was satisfying to avoid combat by charming/intimidating people.
- Fenris & Merrill. Ok, I really like them, but they often looked like two walking, talking, brooding/frolicking parodies. White haired emo pretty boy with dark past and super mega hyper cute wide eyed girl? Oh c'mon! How am I supposed to take them seriously?
- Anders. I have mixed feelings about him. What I mean is that he's a really well done character - he's crazy and sweet at the same time, he has strong believes, he makes me wanna punch, then hug him and he indeed broke my Hawke's heart, and how... But he sucks at being Anders. He's nothing like DAA Anders. NOTHING. I liked his DAA persona, he was this only sane man, funny guy without emotional problems, dark past, etc., and now he's possesed madman AND a terrorist? That's a little too much for me. Couldn't you just introduce a new character? Handers? Anderz? Anderss? With Ser Bounce A Lot? I have enough of tragic guys.
- Fenris romance. It wasn't that bad, but sometimes I had a feeling that he was written for teenage girls. Too much angst, too little tenderness on his side.
- Recycled maps. Just how many bad guys and monsters live in one cave?
- Bugs. I'm talking about Isabella friendship bug. I know you fixed this issue in 1.02 patch, but it doesn't work if a bug has already occured.  If now for pyGFF editor, I couldn't play. And what about XBox/PS3 players? Shame on you!
- Zevran forgot that he romanced my Warden and wanted to bed Hawke. WTH? (What he also forgot is that she's a powerful blood mage - poor little elf.)
- Enemies spawning from nowhere. Or jumping from these really, really high walls. It was just stupid.
- Exploding enemies. I'm cutting them with knives and they go BOOM?
- Alistair, Teagan & Nathaniel new image. Were you drunk or just lazy?
- Orsino's "Not all mages are bad or crazy. I just want to protect my apprentices. BWAHAHAHAHA BLOOD MAGIC!!!!!" That was unnecessary and OOC. And stupid.
- The fact, that about 90% of Kirkwall mages were abominations/blood mages/abomination & blood mages was...hmm...stupid, again.
- Petrice and her plot shield. Ok, so it's Petrice and her templar bodyguard vs Hawke + three other dangerous people on her side. And they're pissed off. So why can't I just kill that crazy @$#%?

I hope my english is good enough for you to understand what I was trying to say to you. Nevertheless, I had fun playing your game. Thank you.

[spoe71]

What's not to like? I may have thought some things were better or worse than in the first game, but in the end, all that matters is that I had a blast playing it and I'm already thinking about how I'm going to do things differently in my second playthough.

I LOVE all of the hooks for future adventures in this one; I love that we now know how flemeth escaped death, which also makes me wonder what her plans will be for the future---and I do hope she has a really, really big one that in some way involves a super-baby.

But, if you're looking for specifics, I'll try to pinpoint a few:

1) love the new elves
2) don't love the "appear out of nowhere" enemies (but it's growing on me)
3) love the new talent tree look and feel
4) don't love the streamlined equipment system for companions (but just barely.  In fact, maybe I do love it).
5) love the spell upgrades
6) don't love that the blood magic tree still doesn't feel quite complete
7) love cross-class combos. Really, really love those.
8) don't love the conversation system related to companions---I liked that I could talk anytime in Origins
9) love the new dialogue system---very clean, and I like hearing my character talk
10) don't love that I could only be human, which limits re-play value a tad
11) love the new flemeth and really hope she shows up in force in DA3
12) don't love the rehashed areas. Too much repitition there.
13) love that Bohdan and Sandal were back---my favorite NPC's of all time (well, except for Minsc and Boo, but hey, it's no shame losing to them)

Modifié par spoe71, 01 mai 2011 - 05:40 .

[Thothistox]

Things I liked about Dragon Age II:

* Not only is there a fantastic amount of messy flying gore, but you can pause the game and spin the camera around in it. When I first saw this it made me laugh. It was great!

* Varric. I love his comment about why he doesn't want to live in Orzammar. I really loved living his lie about getting revenge on his brother. When I realized what was happening I laughed out loud. It's brilliant. Quite post-modern.

* The Qunari look superb. I love their supercilious gloomy eyes. I love the golden glitter effect on the Arishok's horns. I love their curtness of speech. "No." "Begone." They are the fascists of Thedas. They admit no classes, they're just warriors.

* Bringing Merrill along for a quest sometimes resulted in a few laughs because of her naivety.

* The voice acting was very good for the most part. I liked Hawke's voice, and those of Varric, Isabella and the viscount. They added some depth to the story.

* Feeling like a misunderstood and hated immigrant. Nothing makes you sympathize with your character like other characters that don't understand his point of view.

* The haunted house plot was fun.

* Flemeth. The atmosphere at the Hanged Man. Darktown being carved into the cliffs.

* Using the Black Emporium to make my beard longer every 3 years.

* They got rid of some of the stuff I never used in DAO such as trap-making and elemental elixirs.

* The poisons last longer in this one.

* The statue of Andraste in the Chantry. Lovely.

Now for the rest... the bad parts:

My first impression of the game was very good. The graphics of the settings are so superior to DAO I was thrilled to think there was a whole game full of this... and then I stayed in Kirkwall for 10 years and revisited the same ugly warehouse fifteen times. Though some of the environments looked pretty at the start they got boring very fast through reuse. When the designers said that Kirkwall would change I thought I'd see more than respawned enemies and boxes full of "torn trousers" and other wonders. For me, one of the best things about DAO was the illusion of exploration. Even though it wasn't an open game, it was still nice to know that at some point I'm going to see something new. In this game we see nearly all of the game's environs in first 20% of the playthrough. By the end of the first act I feel like I've eaten my bag of goodies and for the rest of the game I'm just chewing on wrappers.

Now, the story... To make a good story you need certain elements. It needs to be believable, and for that at the very least you need consistency. I just can't get over the fact that it's a game about templars versus mages but hardly any attention is paid to the fact I'm playing as a mage. Mage-hating Fenris doesn't hold his tongue after a mage does something horrible, even though mage:Hawke may have just saved his life in a battle. Some templars insist that all mages should be locked up in the circle or made tranquil, but mage:Hawke is not affected and he doesn't run away. Meredith doesn't treat mage:Hawke any differently from any other Hawke, and she even sends him out to track down and kill his fellow mages and mage:Hawke cannot refuse her request! All of these things confused me so much that I started tuning out during all the mage versus templar quests. Just like in DAO when your mage:Warden is sent to hunt blood mages in the forest or he does that whole business with Jowan the blood-mage, I grimaced but went along with it anyway hoping to at least gain experience points. Those were just side-quests in DAO... Well in DA2 they're not. Here the main plot has no dramatic weight. Here I feel like I exist in a vacuum.
I know that the mage versus templar thing is foreshadowed early in the game when Avaline's husband takes issue with Bethany being an apostate, but for me that carried no dramatic weight because I was playing as a mage. Because everything felt like a side-quest the ending really snuck up on me. I didn't know this was a mages versus templars game until the end. I didn't understand why Carver would suddenly become a templar. When a mage murdered my mother it didn't occur to me to blame it on his being a mage because I was mage! I didn't blame it on the murderer being a blood mage because I was romancing a blood mage companion. I didn't blame it on demons because I had a companion who was possessed by a demon that had been my companion during DAA.
I know that some people will counter my complaint with the concept of game-story segregation. For example, if Anders kills (or almost kills) a girl he feels guilty, but he doesn't care about all the others we've killed during the countless fights we've been in. That's fine because killing is not central to the story. If his guilt about killing was supposed to carry the story then it wouldn't make sense. The business of mages and blood magic is, however, central to the story. For that reason every templar should take issue with me being a mage or with my companions being mages otherwise the story doesn't work.

Because I didn't know it was a game about templars versus mages I found big stretches of the game to be aimless. After the deep roads expedition I kept expecting that the artefact I'd found there would unleash some powerful enemy on Kirkwall. I expected to meet an army of evil things. I expected Flemeth to come back and do something interesting. I expected more deep roads expeditions. I expected to find a really ancient Thaig complete with really ancient dwarves. I expected to wander into an upgraded Fade... maybe the Fade in the mind of a dwarven mage. I expected to spend many months exploring those deep roads and then to come back and find that Kirkwall had changed beyond anything I'd ever expected and I had to defeat the force I'd unleashed... I expected all that. But no, I got more boxes with torn trousers. I got the same ugly warehouse that looks like someone carved it out of chipboard. Then even after I earned the Arishok's respect he started an uprising for some reason. I didn't see that coming.... oh and then I saw Alistair and some other Grey Wardens tell me that they couldn't help me against the Qunari because they had more important business. Important business you say? Wow! That's the storyline I want to experience. Wait! Guys! Can I come with you? Can you take me away from this confusing mess and let me fight the archdemon in the deep roads somewhere? Guys?? Come back!
If Alistair is the king of Ferelden he comes by and tells me that there's going to be a war with the Orlesians. Ok, great! So I have to prepare for that war, and for Flemeth to come back because she's obviously the last boss. Right? Right? ...No. More torn trousers. Same ugly warehouse. Same 'abandoned thaig'. I can revisit the deep roads and kill a couple of dark spawn, but the part of the deep roads I visit is the same as what I've already seen and nothing really happens there. Then I kill Merrill's clan for no reason... and Anders suckers me into collecting his gun powder for him so he can do his mage jihad... and then it turns out that Meredith made a sword out of the relic I found. Whatever. Ok, so now I'm supposed to find out why Varric is being interrogated by the chantry... except I don't. Instead I see three seconds of Leliana and credits roll.

No. No. No. No. Bioware, what were you thinking? I know that this game was supposed to be non-linear, but that doesn't mean choosing the order in which you run an unrelated set of errands. An RPG is fun if what you do has an impact on what happens. Here practically none of my choices matter. Even whether I'm a mage or not doesn't matter. Much of what I did in DAO didn't have an impact on my story either. I killed Zevran, but he came back in DA2 and wanted me to bend him over. I killed Wynne before fighting Ulrich, but Anders told me that the blight was stopped by "two mages, one an apostate!". At least you remembered that I sided with the werewolves... though it has no impact on the main storyline. (You didn't mention that I trashed the urn of sacred ashes... I would have wanted that to have some impact as it was pretty important.)

Oh, and the episode with Hawke's mother... Some people have written complaints that this game is too dark. Your companions are psychopaths. All choices are evil. You bet! Let's see. Fenris -- mage-hating slave who was so bound to his identity as a slave he killed his friends at the order of his master. Psychopath. Merrill -- elven blood-mage who wants to build a mirror for summoning demons and ends up killing her whole clan. Psychopath. Anders - possessed bisexual mage who writes a manifesto and eventually commits an act of terrorism to signal a mage uprising. Psychopath. Isabella -- aloof pirate who risks the life of everyone in Kirkwall because the Qunari bible she's seeking is worth a lot of coin. Psychopath. Carver -- your brother who hates you no matter what decisions you make and eventually joins the order that wants you (mage:Hawke) to be killed or made tranquil. Psychopath. Now be this as it may, I still didn't see my mother's murder coming. I played through a second time and tried my hardest to prevent it. Silly me. I know it's there to make you hate mages, but it doesn't work if you're a mage yourself. To me it came across as gratuitous and excessive.

Speaking of gloom and darkness, why does the same "immigrant" theme keep playing throughout Kirkwall even after you become Champion? It's as if the game wants you to be sad and pessimistic no matter what happens. Is it a symbol for how nothing you do changes anything?

The immigrant motif is quite suitable for this game, and it's the one thing it does right as a story. For example, when the mine-owning merchant (I forgot his name) brings in a Fereldan thief and asks you to interrogate him he almost insults him for being a Fereldan and then stops himself. This is great because it shows a believable awareness that Hawke is a Fereldan. Too bad no one remembers Hawke or some of his buddies are mages.

Onto the other stuff. Combat: What is so hard about targeting an enemy? Sometimes I had to switch from one character to another and then back just to be able to select the enemy I want to target. There's a similar problem with telling your companions to run somewhere. The yellow markers won't appear until I've clicked around a dozen times. Ranged attacks have a way of magnetically sticking to one enemy, which is very annoying if you're playing on nightmare mode and want to avoid friendly fire. These bugs should be fixed.
One of the things that I hated about DAO was all the useless skills and spells, well here they are again in DA2. Take Merrill's elven mage talent tree. Who uses ensnare? It only affects enemies close to her, but she's a frail ranged attacker. The last thing you want is enemies getting close to her! The sustained abilities are also a dumb thing. Why take so much of my mana/stamina? Can't there be a sustained ability slot that gets populated? The tradeoffs with many of the sustained ability talents are not worthwhile. Why would I want to waste two talents just to have two activated abilities: one that makes me swing slightly faster and the other mutually exclusive one that gives me slightly more critical chance? I'd rather just swing normally.
There are plenty of useless spells too. Why put the enemies to sleep if you just have to micromanage and get your mage to stop shooting them and waking them up immediately afterwards? Why use walking bomb if it's so weak it very rarely kills the enemy and makes it explode. (...and you're very lucky if it explodes near other enemies.)
Too many of the effects don't last long enough for a critical hit to work. I know that pommel strike plus chained lightning do a lot of damage, but try timing it! It's hard, and the resulting damage is usually not worth the effort.

Another thing: someone should warn you that you need lightning defence runes for your encounter in the deep roads. I had to replay the whole expedition to beat the ancient rock wraith. (I refused to lower the difficulty.)

Armor: I really enjoyed handing down my old stuff to my companions in DAO and DAA. The companion armor concept is really lazy programming.

The music: DAO had a brilliant opening theme that evoked the epic scope of the storyline. DA2 has mediocre music and some of the battle music for the deep roads is plain awful. Music makes a big difference in whether I like a game or not. If you give my role an operatic quality (regardless of music type) I will get into it much more.

Junk: It's not Pac-Man. I don't want to chase after this stuff all over the map. I don't care about torn trousers, a moth-eaten scarf, a used colostomy bag, or whatever else you can sell for three coppers.

Kirkwall itself: It's a gloomy place. It mixes brutalist boxiness with a taste for impossibly large statues and towers, all nested at the foot of mount Everest itself. It's also nearly empty. It seems like most of the nobles have moved away to make room for squatting psychopaths. The alienage consists of a few rowhouses in front of a tree. The foundry is "1970's brutalism meets Auschwitz-Birkenau". It's the city of slaves alright... and not only do you get to see and fight their statues but you also get to feel trapped like a slave because you can't leave this place and go somewhere more cheerful.
Worse still is that the place hardly changes. Aside from that statue of the defeated Qunari, there are no new objects and no new things happening from one act to another. Fenris doesn't bother cleaning up that very fresh-looking corpse that's practically in his front door. All the nobles look the same. The same street vendors are still there. Acts II and III feature hardly any new characters (except for a few crass cameos by DAO/DAA characters) so there should at least be new people to talk to standing around, right?

Re-used environments: I've already touched on this, but the point cannot be emphasized enough. Seeing the same place twice bleeds the game of any explorative novelty. I feel like I'm doing the same quest over and over. If the environments differed only a little and contained repeated objects (e.g., wagons) I wouldn't mind nearly as much.

The Fade: It sucks. One of my favourite things about DAO and DAA was the abstract pseudo-Dahlian mind trip that was the Fade. Warped objects appearing in the order in which you think about them. Playing around with reality and stretching it out of proportion. Transforming your body into other things. Here the fade is just the templars' quarters with a blurring effect and not much happens in it.

Overall I'd give this game a 7/10. It's ok for two playthroughs, and it makes more sense as a warrior, but it won't keep me nearly as interested as DAO did.

Modifié par Thothistox, 02 mai 2011 - 12:26 .

[spoe71]

This all makes me wonder if Bioware is planning anything---a major expansion, for example---for DA2. I sure hope so, especially given the ending's ambiguity, which I suppose Bioware is becoming rather famous (infamous) for

[Crescent]

I finally finished the game out of macabre fascination - how much stupider can it get?  Every time I said, "It can't get any dumber," it did.  The story left a very bitter taste in my mouth that made the game a chore to finish.  There's dark and then there's "soul-crushingly dank and stupid."  I'm certainly not getting any of the DLCs and if there's a DA III I'm not pre-ordering like I did for DA II.  I'm going to wait and read lots of reviews to make sure it's not another "overly depressing because the whole world is really *that* stupid" mess.  I have some friends who also have the game and they're complaining about how hard it is to get any enthusiam to play the game as it is such a wandering mess.



Map reuse - wow.  I can't remember the last time I saw it so blatantly done.  BioWare deserves a Razzie Award for that one.

Oh, and let's not forget all the bugs in the game, like characters
ignoring the commands they were given, especially the HOLD command.  (Or
was it actually a "Hold if you had nothing better to do than listen to
the player" request?)  In most fights, ignoring the HOLD was annoying,
especially when they triggered traps.  On the OMG boss fights, they
routinely ignored the HOLD and got the party obliterated.  I had to
replay the Rock Wraith fight multiple times because my party would
routinely wander out from behind the stone pillars when it was AoEing
the neighborhood.


Companions.

Aveline - a shining example of lazy corruption.  She falls in love with Domminic and gives him the best patrols in town.  She ignores all the evidence about the serial killer who then kills my mother.  When I go talk to her, she tells me that she's the one who should actually be pitied because I at least got to know my mother while she only has vague recollections of her own mother.  The fact that I had to kill my mother's demon possessed soul then hold her dying, desecrated body while my mother thanked me from releasing her from her torment was no reason for me to be upset that Aveline failed in her duties as Guard Captain.  Then there was her admission in front of the Arishok that she had heard the rumors of the elves being abused by her own guard by hadn't bothered investigating them, but if he turned over the elves who'd converted to the Qun because they wanted to live in a society that valued justice, she'd consider looking into it.  (After they were tried and executed, of course.)

Anders - if he'd destroyed the Chantry because it was a shining example of corruption, I'd have been fine with that.  Nope.  OMG - mages working with templars to try to stop evil like Meredith!  Can't have that.  Kaboom!  Wonderul - death on a massive scale.  Now he's assured that everyone will think all mages are bugnuts evil.  Mages all over the city are freaking out and being taken over by demons so the templars look like the beleaguered good guys.  Well played, moron.  Logically, we should have generations of mages being killed by their parents as soon as their powers manifest for fear they'll end up like Anders.

Isabela - pirate cliche.  Her theft of the Qun bible caused hundreds if not thousands of deaths and she doesn't even bat an eyelash at that.  BTW:  if this were a male promiscuous character, would there have been references to the cahracter being ridden with sexual diseases?  I doubt it.

Carver - I'm probably in the .00001% who liked him, but I made sure he became a Warden.  If he'd become a Templar, I'd probably have a very different opinion of him.  (No, it's okay.  I fully support your decision to join the order that wants to enslave me, bro.)

Bethany - I haven't finished the game with my rogue so I don't know how she turns out, but so far she comes across as bland at best.  When she talks about Carver not being there, I want to slap her upside the head and say, "He's dead, not at summer camp, you twit!  Show some grief!"

Merrill - walking Darwin Award in progress.  Wow, I want to help her achieve it, too.  There's naive and there's Too Dumb To Live.  She's firmly in the second category.  On a good day, she's merely a Templar recruitment post.  "Hey, let's go put back together a mirror that ate a friend of mine, a mirror that was found in Dalish ruins with tons of corpses and abominations and such.  It's a great idea because the voices in my head told me so!"

Sebastian - seems cool at first until you realize he's a hypocritcal flake.  He saw all the abuses going on in the Chantry thanks to Mother Patrice but never tries to do anything about it.  He wants to be a priest until he remembers Starkhaven needs a ruler, but that would be work, so hanging out in the Chantry all day praying (and ignoring all the evil around him) sounds better.

Fenris - emo boy.  A bit whiny at times, but I like him, especially with my aggressive rogue.  With my mage, it's annoying that he complains for 7 years how all mages are evil and can't be trusted on their own.  And dude, clean out the corpses in your mansion - health hazzard!

Varric - the only truly cool companion in the game, and I feel like a total [jerk] for abandoning him at some point so he gets caught by The Seeker.


Game motivation - my character's entire motivation in Act I was to make money.  Okay, I don't need the epic "Save the world from the demon invasion" motivation from DA I, but something more than just "make money because being poor sucks" would have been nice.  Let me restore my family's reputation, seek ways to ease the life of other Fereldan refugees, take a stand against all the abuses against mages and/or Dalish, something other than being an errand boy to make money so I can go into the Deep Roads to make money.  Act II - my motivation was ... um ... do random quests I guess.  Act III - try to pick up all the pieces as everyone around deliberately picks the worst choices possible.

Helping Kirkwall - why?  The city gleefully abuses a large portion of its citizenry.  The people in the city are almost all uniformly nasty and corrupt.  By the end of the game, I'd found maybe 5 people in that entire city worth saving, 2 of which were Bohdran and Sandal.  Things like Kirkwall nobles trying to assassinate one of their own because he was giving money to Fereldens so they could rebuild their country made no sense.  They already had too many refugees to exploit them all.  Giving money to some to go back home and rebuilt would simply release the population pressure in the city.


Game choices

Feyndriel - either tranquilize a kid who's effectively survived his initiation, which is against the law, or let him go study in an enemy country where he could be used as a weapon against us down the road.  Meh.

Mages vs. Templars - either support an oppressed people who are being pushed into doing incredibly stupid and dangerous stunts to survive or support those who's fanaticism is causing the mess.  (And if I'm playing a mage, that also means supporting those who have every reason to lock me up and tranquilize me or outright kill me on the spot.)  The fact that many of the mages are gleefully turning to blood magic and backstabbing me after I help them makes me hate the mages.  The templars know that Meredith is crazy evil but won't do anything to stop her, like having her removed from power, which makes me hate them at least as much as I hate the mages.  (Sorry, but secretly supporting a mage insurrection is only going to make her appear to be in the right.  Duh.)

Grand Cleric Whats-her-face (puts on a blindfold and sticks her fingers in her ears)
- La la la la la, I can't hear you!  Let everyone do what they want
then let the Maker sort it all out.  It's not like the Chantry is
supposed to be a force for good in this world, after all.

Let Anders help save the mages (and Sebastian raises an army in Starkhaven against us) or kill him on the spot.  Why the [heck] can't I use Anders to help the mages, then when the immediate crisis is over, give him a public trial and execution?!?  It's the best of both worlds and shows that no one is above the law.

First Enchanter Orsino ... WTF?!?  "Thanks to Anders we're at war and everyone thinks we're evil blood mages so I'll go take this evil blood mage research I'd banned because it was evil blood magic and use it.  I did mention it was evil blood mage research, right?  Gyar - I immediately turn into an uncontrolled demon that tries to kill everyone here who's trying to save me and my fellow mages.  Who'd have thunk it?"

Knight Commander Cullen - okay, we've known for years Meredith was bugnuts, breaking the law left and right, and generally making this town less safe.  I know, we'll secretly plot against her with the mages.  That won't make her theories about us being mind controlled by mages seem plausible in the least.

Ultimately, this entire fiasco is my fault because I was greedy enough to help finance the expedition to the Deep Roads.  If I hadn't gone down there, the idol wouldn't have been found, Meredith would have stayed sane and not oppressed the mages, and Anders might not have had the support he needed to go become a terrorist.  Yay me. 

"Odd, the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall both mysteriously disappeared in the end."  Considering how badly/stupidly the world has turned out, go figure.  Both characters decided they wanted nothing more to do with this mess.


I loved DA I.  DA 1.5 was pretty good.  DA II is just bitter ashes.

[Davro]

 I liked: Combat System, graphics and the voiced part of Hawke and the other characters was well done, talent tree's

I disliked: Not enough companion interaction, not being able to make decisions that made the storyline different, the chat wheel, not having a back story of Hawke or his family. 

The companions were done very well, but interaction was lacking. I loved the idea of apporahing companions in DA: O in camp and you could share stories with them. I didn't like the whole idea of just jumping into playing as Hawke without not knowing much of his back story. In conversations I felt people were really stiff. I also didn't like the conversation wheel to much, it had a feeling like i wanted my Hawke to say a certian thing from the aggressive category but maybe the thing he says didnt please me. Go back to whole list of having things to say instead of quick words like "Yes", "maybe theres a different way" etc.

Big factors that hit me was that decision making didn't affect the story one bit. It was just one huge linear story. As a big Dragon Age Origins fan and me liking my Warden so much, I felt like there was no reference to him really. He stopped the blight in Fereldon. Hawkes home. Maybe its just me because I like my Warden so much.

Big Issue's that need to be resolved
1. More decision making and it actually affecting how the story will play out
2. More companion interaction
3. Fully voiced character was good but it would be nice to have a full list of things to say and what he will actually say, so it will feel more like our character than bioware's

In the end DA: II was a good game. I was satisfied about it but too many plot holesBut those plot holes will surely make for an epix 3rd game. ♥  you Bioware and I ♥♥♥♥ Dragon Age. Keep doing what your doing

[andraip]

I really enjoyed playing DA2.

I loved:
   voiced hero
   when your sibling dies in the Deep Roads, or when your Mother dies. That was really unexpected, I was 100% sure that I could save my Mother, or that my sis/bro wouldn't die, despite the warnings of my mother.

I liked:
   the Qunari, the Arishok in particular
   the new combat system, the combat was way more fun then in DAO
   the talent trees
   having more talents for warrior and rogue then in DAO
   the companions
   the CCCs

I disliked
   only 3 specializations, thats doesn't left much choice.
   spawns spawning out of nowhere (there were just now here). Spiders falling of the roof, and bandits jumping from walls makes sense, but spiders falling of the clouds??? bandits falling of the roof spiderman style???
   a critter having more hp then my tank and a High Dragon deals less damage then my auto attack
   some elves appeared like aliens, but some, like Merril and Fenris looked good

I hated
   game lenght, like Origins DA2 was way to short, seriously, put + 200 hours quality gameplay in it

[blauwvis]

Been meaning to write something for quite some time.  I'm on my second playthrough right now, having gone back to DAO and DAA between playthroughs in order to have a new world state to import, and am loving every minute.  With DA2's predecessors fresh in my mind, here are my thoughts on some of the changes made (though, as my "loving every minute" comment might suggest, on the whole I think the changes were very successful):

* I like the more personal story and the smaller location.  It's definitely not the way things are "done" in RPGs, and that's obviously rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but I found the game as a whole more affecting than just about anything in DAO, where only the choices that engaged me in the same way were the Anvil of the Void and Connor (and the latter only while deliberately ignoring the "save 'em all!" option).  That you can try as hard as you like but can't control the world, and that sometimes terrible things happen and all you can do is react as best you can... well, those are unusual messages for a video game to deliver, to say the least, along with all the other moral and philosophical matters the game touched upon.  But they made for a damned fine story. 

I also found it a lot more palatable, in terms of keeping "in character" and "in the story," to run across town to deliver a letter to some nobody while trying to raise money to support my family, rather than running across the entire country to deliver a letter to some nobody while in the middle of an epic quest to save the world.  That was so annoying.

Also liked the framed narrative:  an interesting and decidedly unusual device, for a video game.


* I liked voiced Hawke a lot.  Actually, I loved all of the voice acting.  Whoever's in charge of all that has a gift for finding good VAs and then making the most of their talents.  The conversation wheel was a bit wonky at times; "charming" options in particular were a bit of a gamble - would they be charming?  Or would they be douchy?  On the whole, though, I did enjoy how you could build a particular personality for Hawke.  It was nicely less black-and-white than paragon/renegade (I know I'm crossing game lines by bringing ME into the mix, but it is absolutely fascinating to see how things are developed, say, in ME, tweaked in DAO, tweaked more in ME2, then changed again in DA2, etc.  Might just be coincidence, since I know different teams develop the different games, but I can't believe that the teams don't take note of what the other teams are doing, and would love to know how much cross-communication happens.)


* The length was good.  I'm familiar enough with DAO to get through it quickly, and with that knowledge, plus fast-forwarding through most dialogue, I managed it in just over 50 hours, which is about the same amount of time it took me to get through DA2 the first time - but I enjoyed DA2 more consistently, whereas I got very tired of DAO in parts.  My second playthrough is going a bit slower, as I'm taking more time to enjoy the sights, read the codex, and search for hidden treasures, but I imagine subsequent playthroughs will be faster.  And I don't mind; 100+ hours - assuming that I only end up doing the two playthroughs, which is unlikely - into a game that cost me 60 Euros is excellent value for money, as far as I'm concerned.  When I want to sink 100+ hours into a single run in a single game, I'll fire up Oblivion or Morrowind.


* I love the speedier combat.  As unrealistic as it may be for my rogue to be leaping around the battlefield like a rabbit on speed, it's far less mind numbing than DAO's "gorilla lumbering through a field of molasses" pace.  During my first playthrough I rolled my eyes at the exploding enemies and gore showers, but on further reflection, it's not any less realistic than DAO's method of corpse disposal, wherein everyone immediately decays into a skeleton or a blood pool (which, IIRC, didn't go uncriticized at the time, either).  On the whole, I preferred DAO's finishing moves and was sorry to lose them.  But in general, combat animations - particularly for mages - are vastly improved.  (Though blood mages disembowling themselves with their staves is... maybe a bit over the top.)


* Companion armor sets - yes!  Finally, my companions look stylish and unique throughout the entire game, rather than spending 90% of the time in ugly, mismatched outfits, or identical-but-slightly-differently-colored robes and suits of leather.  Maybe some choice of upgrade would have helped the people who wanted more customization ("You've found an upgrade for Anders' armor!  Would you like him to have +defense, +attack, or +damage?" for instance), but I personally couldn't care less.


* Graphics and art design were a big improvement.  The reuse of areas was, ah, noticable, though I appreciate the steps that were taken to try and conceal that as much as possible.  I've taken more time to look around during my second playthrough, and I have to admire the beauty of some of the environments; I appreciate that it would have been unfeasible to have a bunch of different areas, all with that level of quality.  DAO's environments, while more varied, tended to be more on the bland and brown side.  I'm inclined to give DA2 the victory in this, if only because I'm a sucker for gazing out at the view from Sundermount or the Wounded Coast.

The new qunari design was excellent.  I'm so pleased that they no longer just look like especially tall, beefy humans.  The new elf look mostly works, and again I'm happy that they are no longer just "pointy eared humans," though some of them come out particularly hideous - but, so do some human NPCs, when I think about it.  Oddly, the presence or absence of eyebrows tends to play a part in whether I think an elf looks good or sickening, which probably says as much about my expectations as about the elf models.


* I liked the references to various things that happened in DAO, and the NPC cameos.  Funnily enough, for all that people go on about how there was so much "choice" in DAO, it seems to me that the results of those choices are made manifest in DA2, to a much greater extent than in the original, where they mostly served as background fluff.

Similarly, I liked how quests and certain plot threads were followed up in later Acts, both by letters and full blown quests (and I'm also glad that we got both rather than just letters, ME2-style).


* Companions... well, what can I say but that you guys just keep honing your craft.  I went into this game with no expectations but that it would be set in Thedas, and that there would be interesting companions, good writing, and an angsty romance or two.  You delivered on all counts.  I like the "learning through doing" method of getting to know your companions, as opposed to "stand around at the campsite listening to expository text."  I think this group is the most compelling and complex yet, and really hope to see them again. 

I also liked the revamped gift giving - thank you for making each gift a meaningful one (for better or worse); I hated the "convo unlocking minigame" in DAO: "Have anything to say?  No?  Here, have some pie.  Anything to say now?  No.  Here, have some..."  Companions interjecting more during quests, the option to let them steer interactions with other NPCs, the multi-way party banter, the cut-scenes that indicate that they have relationships with each other and not just Hawke.. glorious, all of it.  Also, hurrah for the friendship/rivalry scale.  Sure, it can lead to some inconsistencies, but I don't expect a perfect modelling of complex human relationships - and in any case, it's far, far better than "if we're not friends we're nothing, and if you want to be friends you either have to agree with me all the time, or agree most of the time and shower me with cakes and jewelry the rest of the time."

I loved the love scenes.  DAO's were cringe-worthy; people rave about ME1's, but I never know whether it's nostalgia talking or if people are just that impressed by a naked woman crawling.  I think this hit a good balance - a taste of passion and foreplay and then a fade, leaving the "good stuff" to your imagination.  I also cannot express how thrilled I was that Hawke's LI comes in for a comforting scene at the conclusion of "All That Remains."  It was completely unexpected, considering how accustomed I am to companions being oblivious to problems or difficulties faced by the protagonist, and was thus a wonderful surprise.  Same with the conversations in which other companions discuss Hawke's LI.

Like most people who love this stuff, my only major complaint is a desire for MORE.  But that desire is infinite, and your resources are finite, so basic economics comes into play.  I'll be happy with what I'm given, honest.



I didn't like absolutely everything, mind you:

* I disliked how some conversation options - namely, flirting - effectively ended conversation.  Many times it seemed that you had a choice of having a chat with your companion and finding something out about him or her... or you could flirt.  This seemed to be the opposite of what happened in ME2 (and, to a lesser extent, DAO), where it felt like you could only really get to know the companion(s) you romanced.  Sure, this problem can be overcome with reloading and the power of imagination, but why can't the conversations loop around to the point where we can get back to the flirting without losing the "getting to know you" parts?


* It would have been nice to have had a central base for your companions - the Hanged Man would have worked well, since they all talk as if they hang out there at least some of the time - or, at the very least, I would have loved the option to be able to go somewhere, anywhere, so that I could cycle through all of their equipment at the same time.  Having to switch party members around in order to deal with equipment got old, fast.


* Some of Hawke's armor sets looked fabulous.  Others looked.. decidedly less so.  Some looked good, but were marred by oddities, like the infamous "crumb catchers."  Seriously, what was up with that?


* Some of the NPC cameos were spoiled by problems with facial design.  Teagan, Alistair and Zevran came off particularly badly.  I appreciate that the graphics system has changed, but in some cases their hair wasn't the same color, or they got nose jobs (beyond Zevran's complete, and understandable, facial reconstruction).  I suppose that's what mods are for, though.


* Act 3 just really seemed to fall apart for mage supporters.  I haven't done a pro-templar run yet, but I imagine that it will hold together quite a bit better.  Why is Meredith giving me quests?  And where does one even begin with "Best Served Cold"? When Champion Hawke, the woman who Told Meredith Off in Public, the one who's been flaunting her relationship with the Apostate King for the past three years - oh, and there's the King himself, standing next to her - appears on the stairs, why do the conspiring mages and templars identify her as a templar puppet and attack?  It doesn't make any sense, unless I assume that they're either all terminally stupid or else Grace is just such a powerful blood mage that she can control all of their minds, 100% of the time, from her base out on the coast.  I was so excited by the possibility of meeting allies, and then the game forces me to kill them all, on the flimsiest of excuses.  I can appreciate being set up and knocked down - one could say that that was the point of the game! - but this was poorly done and left a really, really bad taste in my mouth.

Then there's Orsino/Harvester, which really felt like a "quick, we need another boss battle!" moment.  We were winning!  Or at least everything the game told me suggested that we were.  Apparently Orsino was in league with the mad mage who kills Leandra, though the extent of "in league" is never really made clear.  I wasn't sure what was supposed to be going on with Orsino - was he good but conflicted?  a blood mage?  secretly villainous?  He didn't get enough screen time to become developed, and yet by virtue of his position was a major player.

More context, and some tweaking for pro-magers, would have made it all rather more palatable.  I think this is where a lot of the "DA2 was an obvious money grabbing rush job" complaints originate; it was certainly a let-down compared to all that had come before.

Still, I'm salivating for story-based DLC and looking forward to DA3.  Keep up the good work!

Modifié par blauwvis, 03 mai 2011 - 09:29 .

[ljarllrajl]

My first few hours into playing this game were very frustrating and I almost put the game away but I'm glad I stuck with it because overall this was a very good game. Here were the frustrating things early on for me:

* default lighting and shading was unplayable. WAY too dark. I could barely even see the character's faces in broad daylight with no shading. I adjust it almost to max brightness in the settings and that fixed the problem.

* The voice echo effect was absolutely grating. This was the main reason I almost stopped playing but after tuning down the background music and sound effects to half, it was at least playable. But still pretty bad.

* Boring generic refugee storyline. DAO had such brilliant, exciting, and diverse beginning storylines that DA2 was a HUGE letdown. Plus all these random quest and generic NPC's are shoved down your throat right at the start that it's hard to care what outcome comes out of the choices you make early on. It was very muddled and not absorbing in the least. It seemed that none of the early quest nor NPC's (outside of your immediate family) are supposed to matter in the least so they don't. Makes for a very slow start.

* Boss battles were a letdown. While I really like the speed and simplicity of the new combat system, it led to the combat being far too easy and lacking in tension (at least it did as a range fighting rogue, i'm finding it a little more difficult as a mage). Then a boss pops up, gets mowed down and it's business as usual. And even if a boss is more challenging, the build up to the battles were very weak compared to DAO. I still crap my pants when I think of The 'Andraste" High Dragon swooping off the mountain top and roaring in Kolgrim's face and thinking to myself "Hope I remembered to save!" I still get creeped out when I remember crawling through the Deep Roads while a possessed dwarf's voice echoes out warnings of doom, then to be greeted by the horrifying Brood Mother! Or even the first encouter with an Ogre in the top of the tower during the Battle at Ostagar. There were no such moments like this in DA2 save for maybe the battle with Meredith.

* The generic voice acting of Male and Female Hawke, and of Varric were VERY disappointing. While these characters grew on me over time, it was difficult early on to be engaged in the story because 1.) They were the three most vapid voices in the whole game (save for an occassional NPC) and 2.) These were the main characters delivering the entire main story arc. Varric's was particularly bland even though I enjoyed the character overall because of the script writing and his general loyalty to Hawke throughout the story. After brilliant voice performances by characters like Morrigan, Alister, and Shale in DAO, I would've expected more from the characters in DA2 that are central in delivering the main story.

* Many sound glitches on PS3 during cut scenes and conversations. The characters mouth would start moving and no voice would come out at first. It happened more than a few times. It's not terrible but it mostly just ruins the immersion into the story.


These are just things that I felt were a problem in the early stages of the game. There are other things that came up later on, several things I liked/loved, and a few things were I'm not sure yet, and ideas that I think could improve the franchise down the line. I'll list all these seperately when I get around to it. This post is just for early negative impressions.

Modifié par ljarllrajl, 03 mai 2011 - 08:23 .

[Spiral_Blue]

  Combat

• Waves of enemies were rubbish. Finishing off a final opponent with a powerful talent is satisfying. Immediately being mobbed by fifteen critters is demoralising and frustrating. Guess what feelings you're left with after killing the critters? And that's the best case scenario. If a wave features an Assassin then thanks to the fact that they can spawn anywhere someone squishy on your team will probably die. Joy.
• And it happens every time. Enemies spawning in a circle around you every fight makes the environment redundant, tactical positioning pointless and the combat repetitive.
• Combat pacing was an improvement.  Always felt like there was something to do.
• Cross class Combos are great idea, really the meat of the combat, encourages use of the entire squad but the game is 10 times longer (n.b. not harder) than it needs to be if you don't use them, and it's already too long with wave after wave after wave, so they need to be either really pushed up front and centre or toned down and enemies health reduced.  I'd prefer the former, and more of them.
• The tactical view was sorely missed. Would have helped with teleporting enemies.  A bit.
• Longer lifespans on poisons are a good thing, makes them less annoying to use than in Origins. Think you went a bit too far in trimming the number of choices, a few more wouldn't have hurt. Perhaps one for each element since a] there's already elemental weaknesses and b] there's only five of them. Long cooldowns so you have to choose when to switch are a good idea.  You were right to get rid of strength of poisons. Can you try do something similar with traps? Having enemies trigger traps was fun.
• Friendly fire on melee characters? With AI companions?  Really? That seemed like a good idea?
• Tactics - if you're going to keep the tactical view out these really should be better. I like the gambit system you're using, but you can automate more stuff. Characters shouldn't need to be set up to use a health potion at less than 10% health.  With the long cooldowns especially.  Never died because I ran out of potions, only because they were on cooldown.  So make the default health potion free and let the AI use them when they need them, with the necessary shout outs to let the player know they're in trouble.
• Have a "Use Powers" option a la Mass Effect so companions can use their own awesome buttons when they can bring the hurt. Have mages use Chain Lightning on staggered enemies, and warriors hold on to Shattering Blow if the mages can cause brittle. Makes the AI seem smarter, and is useful in a game where you have to switch characters to use their abilities. If nightmare encourages players to turn that off because they are better at maximising damage than an AI, that's a good thing.
• The companion bugs.  These alone mean you shouldn't have released the game when you did, let alone anything else.  How on earth were they not noticed?

Non Combat

• Adding every conversation you could have with companions to the quest board made talking to them feel more like a job than a relationship.
• Fewer fetch quests. They're pointless.  See: Junk
• Removal of scouting using a rogue was a step back. A stealthed rogue should be able to disable all traps before combat starts. Running blindly into a trapped room is something Sandal can get away with, but not squishy classes, especially when they are running all over the place in a mad panic because three critters teleported into mid-air behind them.
• Reusing the same maps over and over again. Not talking about the same places in different acts, although that wasn't great either.  I mean how Sundermount Caverns is the same as the Slaver Caverns is the same as Sebastians Loyalty Quest and several more. I mean, really? After the complaints about every sidequest map being the same in Mass Effect you didn't think this would be an issue?
• The way stats control attributes is fine, but you're punishing players for trying non-standard builds with the class & stat requirements on armour. Getting rid of the class requirements would be the easiest fix.
• Junk - Loot is useful, or it's vendor trash.  Vendor trash is pointless.  Bunching it together and having a single button to "Sell Junk" just makes that even clearer.  Skip the middleman, and have more useful loot.
• Armour - You want to get rid of companion armour, that's your call, but giving me tons of armour that I can't use or is worse than what I'm wearing serves no purpose other than to waste my time dumping it at vendors one bit at a time. See:  Junk.  Free up the inventory space and create more varied potions, poisons and grenades instead.  Or have weapon effects that might encourage you to hold on to a weapon that's a wee bit weaker.
• Skill Trees are better than Origins.

Plot

• The prologue was a good indicator of what was to come.  Killing off Sibling Uno, following it up immediately with a boss fight that inevitably ends in farcical kiting around for ten minutes taking pot shots at an ogre, and then two minutes later killing off Wesley tells me something.  It tells me that death is going to be frequent, badly handled and there's nothing I can do about it, so don't bother getting attached to anyone.  I've hardly had time to learn these peoples names and you've already killed off 1/3 of them with a Benny Hill chase in between. Not a good start there.
• The loss of Sibling Dos in the Deep Roads works on the other hand, and they don't even need to die. Varrics foreshadowing during his chat with Cassandra helped. Removing them at this point works – I've had an entire act to get to know them beyond generic [sweet little sister, bratty younger brother].
• Losing them if you're still living in the same city makes less sense. Doesn't help that I can make frequent house calls on various companions who hate me but my own kin are off limits.  Could have been handled better.
• You offered a choice between collective punishment and defence of the innocent.  If you were trying to make that an ambiguous choice, you failed.  I don't know whether that says more about my morals or your plot.
• And it didn't matter anyway.  In the end no matter what I chose I killed all involved and didn't give a damn because everyone was a jackass and I couldn't do anything about anything anyway.  Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.  Not fun though.
• The prevalance of blood mages didn't make me more nervous about magic.  Given Hawke lives in a world where at least 500 people have fallen out of the sky and immediately attempted to chib him I'm not going to be too fussed when someone tries to do it with magic.
• Utterly failed with Leandra to make me think magic was even an issue.  When you're got a serial killer you don't need to look much further than that for the cause of a problem. Leandra's Thriller impersonation didn't help matters.
• The murder of Seamus straight afterwards did a better job of turning a sympathetic institution into something that needed to be watched and feared.  Petrice being shot in the head five minutes later nipped that in the bud though.
• I like the characters. I like most of the dialogue.  No problems there.  They have interesting stories to tell. It feels like I'm putting this in becasue I don't want to be too negative, and that's true.
• I didn't care what happened because everything happens anyway.  If I give Merrill a knife, she wants to speak to a demon.  If I don't, she wants to speak to a demon.  If I help out Anders, he puts on a black coat and blows up a nun.  If I don't he does it in a beige coat.  Choice might be an illusion, but some illusions are better than others.
• I can't be bothered keeping going with the plot issues.

Misc

• The bull with Witch Hunt ("tie up this last loose end once and for all" => "lol she went into a mirror WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!") has made me suspecious of your post content DLC
• You can thank the deadline for the signature edition for making me suspecious of pre release DLC. Now that I've played DA2 it looks less like rewarding preorders and more like desperately trying to get people to buy into the game before word gets around about the quality.
• Given the response to negative feedback so far on this forum and in interviews I don't have high hopes going forward. I'm not expecting self-flagellation, that would be daft, but the First Rule of Holes still applies.

Summary:  When you take out so much from a game that's popular in part because of the choices you can make you need to make sure what's left is solid gold.  The character you control in combat is more fluid and there have been good improvements in that area, but nearly everywhere else the amount of repetition and lack of options has made for a disappointing sequel.  In the plot in particular. The DA:O epilogue showed how the Warden had changed many things, for good or ill. In DA2 the epilogue shows that nothing changes no matter what you do. If Cassandra turns up on Hawkes doorstep and says that only the Champion help prevent the bad things happening, then he's justified if he laughs in her face and slams the door shut.Score: Disappointed out of preordering Dragon Age 3.

Modifié par Spiral_Blue, 06 mai 2011 - 06:37 .

[Jannamarie]

Okay my two cents worth...

I've played all the Bioware games going back to BG.

Likes
----------

1) The Music was awesome. I never get tired of it. I think Inon really got the emotional content right. It's heroic when it is suppose to be, sad when it should be, and the hardest to get right--unexpectedly tender. He nailed it. Some of the best bar and brothel music over the whole time span, too.

2) Loved the voice acting. I was one of the ones who thought the DAO voice acting was so well done, that I missed having my character have a matching voice. So I was really happy with the fem Hawke voice acting in DA2. (I haven’t played a male Hawke yet).
3) Like the dialogue wheel for conversation choices since I had a clue about what the consequences would be and didn’t have to reload a jillion times for not knowing what the choices were meant to be.
4) Really enjoyed the faster paced action in the fighting styles. It was just more exciting.
5) I liked the simplified skill trees. I think ten slots for reaching the maximum effect is just about right (sixteen where I didn’t use all of them was too much). At first I thought I was going to hate this since I had loved being a mage in DAO with all those nifty spells. But the cross class combos kinda made up for it and I ended up really liking it and the combos.
6) Love the new graphics. Especially so since with my PC is from 2007 and I was afraid its older graphics card might not handle DA2. There were times in DAO and DAA that it would lock up and crash on the longer fight scenes. I have not had one problem like that with DA2. And yet the game looks even better than DAO. Thank you!
7) Loved Sebastian and would have loved to have him as a fully developed LI. He reminded me of a cross between a paladin and a cleric. I totally get his demand that Anders be killed or ELSE.
8) Loved the rogues skill trees and rogues have never been high on my list before to play. It was almost as much fun to play as a rogue as it was as a mage. This is some of the highest praise I can give because most games I either want to be the paladin or the mage and nothing else.
9) Party banter (not as good as DAO but close).
10) Varric killing the Du Crapper blood mage for you. Varric telling his version of killing his brother all by his little self (I still chortle thinking about it now). Varric taking care of all the people you pick up along the way like a makeshift family. Varric period. Thank you Mary writing for such a memorable character. Rarely do any characters live up to their hype the way Varric does.

11) Loved how my PC’s battle cries changed depending upon my play choices of good, humorous or aggressive. The aggressive mage battle cry of “I love the smell of fresh blood” takes on a whole new meaning during a second play through when you know the game’s main theme and tension! I just about fell off my chair when during my third play through when my rogue archer’s battle cry was something like “that’s another one for me, we are keeping count right?” Finally a reply to Varric’s battle cry! I adored these little touches and thoughtfulness. I really, really, really like the specified battle cries based on your game play style. Thank you!
12) Loved seeing Sandal and Bodan again. Would like to go to Orlais and see them there too!
13) Adored being able to change appear in the Black Emporium instead of having to do a new game or a mod.
14) Had many a chortle over some of the junk. And just died laughing when I found the rod of fire form in Orsino’s office. Those Kirkwallers must be a kinky, passionate lot to judge by the number of torn pants I found everywhere. Isabella would approve or perhaps she caused the majority of the torn pants?
I took three days off from work and had a virtual vacation in Kirkwall playing nonstop and living off of pizza delivered. Thank you Bioware for a great vacation!

[Jannamarie]

Dislikes
----------

1) Too short a story line. I'm dying to play a DLC or an add on expansion or maybe that's just me being a game addict?

[TommyJayG]

If Dragon Age 3 is anything like this new installment, I won't buy it. I could say so much concerning how disappointed I am, but many have already covered many areas already. This DA:2 was a far cry from Origins and a leap backwards. It did not deliver, it only disappointed hard core fans. I cannot believe that it is even called "Dragon Age."

[Thirdpres]

Dragon Age 2 -  Everything and the Kitchen Sink

Good

1.  Good story for the most part but lacking for being rushed (opinion) and lack of resources (opinion again), execution of the story is a little less satisfactory. I liked the fact that the story is around a character and not big event or enemy that ending the known world.

The time jumps are not all bad but there needed to be a little more glue with a few instances where what Hawke does matters, has an impact, on friends, business parts/enemies, city officials, and the city itself. A little more player agency.

Suggestion: cut Act 3, that is where an expansion can begin with far more focus on changes and what kinds of changes Kirkwall should encounter based on what Hawke does. An expansion that dealt with Kirkwalls many factions, their desires, and how they mesh with Hawke's would have been interesting. (Read further below for my "Moot Point" comments.)

2.  Good party interaction, probably one of the best so far from Bioware, see expanded comments in "Other" category.

3.  I liked the companion quests and most of the main, meaty, quests, except for the Dark Roads, far too short getting to the Primeval Thaig.

4.  Companions will naturally approach interesting objects in the environment while you're talking to NPCs. 
 
5.  Hide helmets.

6.  Art design is good, the colors are crisp with high contrast. The Wounded Coast scenery is really well crafted.

7. Cross-class combos are a neat idea. It adds more interaction in battles between the companion and this influence the team you build. Nice improvement.

8. Mostly good voice acting.

9. One of the few boss battles I enjoy is with the rock wraith involving strategy and visual effect but it too long.  

10.  Act 1 exploring Kirkwall for the first time is pretty fun.  When Act 2 began though, those feelings weren't rekindled, it was exactly the same city (See Bad below: re-used maps, details, etc.).

11. Qunari, Changes with the Qunari are fine by me. I remember that there are not supposed to be anthropomorphic races in DA, will that change now that the Qunari have horns and appear more beastlike? Just curious. I'll be happy to not have any other animal people in DA. (Repeated Below)

12.  Game length is good.

Not Good Enough (Could use minor tweaking.)

1.  Linear storytelling at times, felt rushed along. The Dark roads being an example.  

2.  On Love Interests. A few more dialogues once seeing each other. A date. Something to make my Hawke's romance more involving, particularly in that I've been seeing this person for years by the end of the game. Too disconnected. I'm almost tempted to stick this one in my Neutral category.

3.  Blooming Rose - Didn't like seeing Gamlen there. I did enjoy the fact that you can go there and fool around if you want to, having some surprises was funny. It would have been more fun and surprising if there'd been a little more variety in just what kind of surprises there were to be found. Having an expensive 10 gold premium surprise, ending with several nobles walking out of a room with a passed out Hawke would have been terrible and hilarious, the nobles each paying 10 gold to the madam on their way out … circa Act 2 or 3 … 8p

4.  Junk. I like the essential idea but junk took up too much space, have a separate loot bag for junk. Heck. Just call made a bag for junk, loot, and then normal items that the player and companions can use. Early in an adventurer's career you tend to find mostly cheap junk but, then as you start level up you start finding expensive loot. Just an idea. With loot, being more expensive, it could have some descriptions or pretty pictures. Being able to sell all junk (or loot if that were created) with a single button it nice.

Neutral (Could use some tweaking.)

1.  Usable, equip-able, items, I like having a fair number of items but there were times I felt like I was getting something good then finding something better just around the corner. Sometimes I'd like to not feel like I'm on a loot wheel for weapons, armor, and magic items. 

2.  Friendship/Rivalry System, I don't normally like metered relationships in games but having a mechanism so players can understand where they stand with a given companion is useful. The F/R allows for keeping companions around even if you're not quite friends, rather than the companion taking off on you.

I found myself taking only one or two characters (meta-gaming) on certain quests or beginning a quest with one group of companions, changing the companions out during the quest, then ending the quest with yet another change out just to avoid getting rivalry points.

I also found this system to polarize my companions. Extremism. I have mixed feelings about this. I probably ought to tryout some of the rivalries with companions but that goes against the grain for me. Finding some common ground would have been nice but then, again, the intended ending of Dragon Age 2 is all about people not finding common ground but going over the top.

3.  Combat. I don't mind having quicker combat than in DA. It's interesting to discover the new combat engine, but it gets repetitive. I do prefer the combined combat spells and skills of DA over DA2 but this is not a deal breaker for me. New rules are okay but the combat encounters, as mentioned above in the Bad section are, well, bad in my opinion.

4.  I liked the concepts for most of the boss fights in DA2, even some of those with multiple stages to them, but a little less Zerg (like with the High Dragon and I view this as a Bad boss fight owing to Zerg) and with smaller hit point pools. These battles often took too long for me to enjoy them.

5.  Dialogue wheel: I have to say that some of the dialogue choices don't always match my expectations. Once I chose a voice I pretty much stuck with it except for very compelling reasons. Sarcastic to flirty being the most common with a few angelic, diplomatic, practical moments thrown in. I think I used an angry voice only three times in as two different games.

6.  Voiced PC, lack of choice of course, costs "zots" etc
.
7. Cultural differentiation, Kirkwall doesn't seem to be very different from Ferelden, the people mostly sound and dress the same

8.  Weather, mixing it up a bit would be nice.

Bad

1.  Re-used maps, a little excessive. I understand a short development cycle will have its impact but this went a little overboard. Even with the action mostly being in Kirkwall, not a bad thing in and of itself, but the lack of change in the city over 7 years left a bad taste in my mouth.

The lack of variety in areas made the game a little less epic, not that that is always bad but with the game mostly taking place in a confined area that the player could not impact much left the experience underwhelming.

2.  Hawke having limited to no impact on events in the story.  Examples: Anders, he blows up the Chantry and sets in motion the changing of the world; Orsino,  He asks Hawke if we are ready for the final fight and looks ready. A wave of templar arrives and is easily beaten. Moments later he goes crazy, transforming himself into a monster abomination due to despair from the coming Templars, who fights him?

Some of these examples are understandable but I really didn't feel much like my character was being treated as either a champion of Kirkwall or, earlier, really a poor SOB off the boat except for briefly trying to get into the city. It would have been nice to see some factions being interested in cultivating a relationship with the Champion, rather than being an errand boy/girl, see Meredith/Orsino letters and missions.  Only the Viscount seemed somewhat appreciative of the Champion.

3.  After the escape from Lothering, the game loses all sense of urgency. Lack of impending threat throughout the game makes the events of the game seem unimportant.
 
4.  Fed-Ex  Quests and Everything's a Quest. Apart from the main story it seems as if everything is a quest. A companion wants to talk to you, it’s a quest. This is likely due to the companions being in different locations when not being in the group, hence the developers need a mechanism to let the player know something is afoot. I suspect having letters turn up at your house frequently would help this out without it having to be "quests" popping up.

Since the environment in DA2 is Kirkwall, it doesn’t change much at all for all the years you're there and with fast travel most quests, particularly the find an item and give it to someone Fed-Ex quests just seem underwhelming as there isn't even anything to explore. I like quests to be a little more involved, progression toward a goal.  Most quests could only be resolve through combat. Lacking coercion or having to have just the right companion along is irksome.
I'll forgive the Fed-Ex Quests pantaloon quest, BG nostalgia strikes again. See, it still is good for something. 8)

5.  Lack of customization. I like to decide which companion will have what items and what  style of combat they use. I like non-combat skills: coercion, survival, poison, herbalism, traps, etc. DA2 shouldn't be just about combat.

6.  Eliminating coercion. I didn't like that. (I'd like options for persuade and intimidate but this is unlikely since coercion, itself, has been removed. Having to split non-combat skill points on three different skills has always been a tough thing to do; I'd just be happy to see coercion return to future DA projects).

7.  Details Missing, examples: Hanged Man bartender has the same rumors for 7 years; Essentially no one every hits on my Hawke while in the Hanged Man; Kirkwall and its NPC don't evolve in 7 years. If I get into a fight, I want civilians running away, or guards helping out. Templars going after mages in my group even if it's just a one off encounter in Act 1.

8.  Romantic scenes are almost non-existent in DA2.  There are no repeatable scenes, no hugs or kisses and no pre-battle kisses?

9.  I missed chatting with my companions. The only time you talk to them is when there is some important and scripted quest.

10.  Most consequences reflected only in dialogue and the fate of your companions rather than in story, particularly while playing the game story, and game-play.

11.  Gamlen should not be hanging out in the Blooming Rose, it seems too high priced for him. There should be a cheap gambling hall, arena-pit fighting (?), and flop-house where he hangs out. (Repeated Below)

12.  Some citizens sound happy when I return the remains of their loved one to them during side-quests.
 
13.  Elves, I don't like the change to Elves in DA2, they mostly appear ugly to me unless I avoid looking at their ears or avoid paying too much attention to their noses. Merrill seems to not seem quite as off putting as many of the other DA2 Elves which is nice.

14.  Enemy encounters, were often a little too random, sometimes just appearing out of nowhere. I can buy some of the jumping out of mid-air but it would have been nice if you could, as a player, having snuck around on a roof-top yourself so that there is some context enemies jumping down on your party.

15.  Zerg/swarming attacks by enemies became old. There ought to be times and places for multiple groups of enemies attacking but having it happen almost every battle is over the top.

16.  Rogue enemies, seemed very overpowered. I'd cast control (petrify, cone of cold, etc) spells on them to no effect. They'd have almost no hit points left and not die after being attacked repeated via spells, arrows, etc. Disappear at will, often after being hit with enough damage to kill them, only to have them appear and serious wound and or down a companion.

17.  Enemy deaths ending in exploding bodies and blood was off putting at times. On big attacks it made some limited sense but other times it was a simple strike from someone just coming into the battle that caused the explosion.

18.  Mages, sort of, teleporting, not true. But these mages sure appear to be teleporting and I admit to not liking it. I don't mind a few exceptions but it just seemed to happen all of the time.

19.  Darkspawn, I prefer the original designs, I found them comparatively scarier.

20.   Dog Lords? Mabari are supposed to be intelligent, well treated, and not necessarily common. Maybe I'm off on this one, its lore and what's true in Ferelden might not be so in Kirkwall.

21.  Cartoony.  DA2 just doesn't seem to be the same dimension as DA, like a very similar too but different plane of existence. DA2 is just over the top at times in comparison to DA. Assassins shrugging off spell effects, huge health bars. Abominations popping out of the ground. Oversized equipment. I can forgiven something's, like Meredith. She has some strange idol that driven her insane and I assume given her superpowers.
 
22. Removal of second weapon slot. As a rogue, even fighter, I often like to start the fight with a bow and then switch to melee.

23.  Trap detection range is too small, seems most of the time characters step on traps before there's even a hint they're there. Then there were times I knew where a trap was located but owing to my companions being too far apart I couldn't get Varric in position to deal with the trap without someone running over the trap.

Other
Hawkes' Impact, or lack thereof, on these characters:

Anders - No, he's a terrorist no matter what you do.
Arishok - No, but you can get different dialogue with him, duel him or have a big battle.
Bethany - Yes, but this is early on in the game, reducing its impact.
Hawke - Siding with the Mages/Templars at the end doesn't change the in-game play just the end narration.
Leandra - No.
Meredith - No, and she's been driven insane from the idol thus lessening her character development.
Orsino - No, it would have been nice to have a conversation with him as an abomination, a choice to attack him after he changes or let him go and soften up the Templars.

I don't mind every instance where Hawke can't impact the plot of the game, sometimes things happen and there's nothing to be done about it but this happened a few too many times. Great potential strengths of storytelling for DA2 - branching character progression through  7 years - lost. Player agency needs to be better respected and the lack of choice hurts replay.

Not having meaningful choice(s) is wasteful if most of those branching dialogues end in a linear story.

Companion Like to Dislike, Rating +2 to -2

Bethany +2, wanted more time to get to know her but I don't mind her being taken up by the Circle. I would have liked to visit with her, or just write letters.

Carver -2, he just came across as too much of a jerk. If there'd been some develop of our relationship I might be more forgiving. I do understand where he is coming from, not being allowed to have a normal life owning to Bethany/(PC) Hawke being mages, along with our father but his complaining became old quick. He did redeem himself towards the end, I put a great deal of effort into making him a non-rival.

Varric +2, manly dwarf!

Anders 0, I'd have liked him more if he were not so one tracked minded in Act 3, particularly true if you are romancing him. I do miss her earlier humor but I can see where he's changing. Not a badly written character just not what I wanted in a love interest for my Hawke.

Isabela +2, I want to play a FemHawke who can get into mischief like she does. I enjoyed her romance or fling if you're into that.

Fenris +1, complex character. I do enjoy him but the Hawke characters I've played have been mostly pro-mage so his tirades get boring, even if they are justified. And it could be very tough being pro-mage (worse even if you are a mage) as so many of them given Fenris and many others very good reasons to distrust them in Dragon Age 2. I haven't romanced him yet but the build-up seemed solid.

Sebastian -1, I'd have enjoyed Sebastian more if he'd spanked my FemHawke after she kept teasing him. Give him a stern, disciplinarian, with a kinky twist to him that my Hawke could look forward to once married to him. As it stands Sebastian comes across as a stick in the mud on the mend from having been a louse earlier in life.

Merrill +2, I enjoyed her. Naïve yes but fun loving and complex. Good romance.

Aveline +2, complex character whom I enjoyed having along. Her dating quest was fun. I liked seeing her and Isabela getting their claws out. Her kiss was slightly unexpected but good nonetheless.

Big Questions, Any Answers?

1. It was once said by Bioware that Elves take on the characteristics of those they're around over a period of time (pretty long but no specifics as I remember it). This is supposed to be one of the reasons Elves lost their immortality or long life-span, or whatever they think they had back during their early exposure to humans. I am wondering if Elves will start looking like Qunari if they are around them long enough, different life-span? Not needing to eat or drink so much? Just curious.

2. Qunari, Changes with the Qunari are fine by me. I remember that there are not supposed to be anthropomorphic races in DA, will that change now that the Qunari have horns and appear more beastlike? Just curious. I'll be happy to not have any other animal people in DA. (Previously Mentioned)

Moot Point but, what I think would have made for a good game and comprise on resources:

1. Cut Act 3, have the conflict with the Qunari be the ending note for the game. Introduce Meredith and Orsino during Act 2, having some minor involvement with them or some of their cohorts, in addition to adding them defeat the Qunari threat. Players would then be clued into their conflict and part of what would take place in any expansion for Dragon Age 2.

2. Take the resources from the cut Act 3, use them to make a slightly longer opening sequence detailing the escape from Lothering, perhaps have two extra npcs come along who might be useful later on in the game.

3. Have a compressed, with mini-adventures, first year of service with either the smugglers or the mercenaries. The mini-adventures would be specific to jobs for these organizations. Only allow access to the docks and the slums of the city, enlarging them from what we currently have, just an extra block or street, either part of the large area we travel through or just an extra place you travel to when adventuring.

4. Introduce npcs who will be useful later on in the game, not unlike what we have in the current game but have them each have a minor mission, or some way to get to know them rather than just telling our character we know them.

5. Introduce a few specific problems with being poor and related to Gamlen, whose seen as deep in debt and often in trouble with powerful figures, from notes left around his home. Explore options on how to deal with these problems, if player-Hawke does not want to deal with specific problems then have his/her sibling take charge and fix problems, such as: debt collector's agents, landlord, getting medicine for your mother, seeing to it that your mother has enough coin to do some limit charity work for her friends or other refugees (particularly if you still have friends waiting to get into the city), and paying off local hoods.

6. Money should be scarce, the player would have to make some very difficult choices on how to get money, not things the player (Hawke) would necessarily be proud of.

7. Gamlen should not be hanging out in the Blooming Rose, it's too high priced for him. There should be a cheap gambling hall, arena-pit fighting (?), and flop-house where he hangs out. (Mentioned Previously.)

8. Friends made could help with above problems, offering jobs or suggestions on how to make fast money. Or you could take a really rotten job as a part-time slaver, when not working for the smugglers or mercenaries. Sale some of your compatriots into slavery, those folks I mentioned helping escape Lothering for example.

9. Make it clear that the Viscount having to use up resources to keep the Qunari well feed and housed is having a very negative effect on the poor of Kirkwall, their eating up resources that should be going toward more productive and real members of Kirkwall's society, not a small army of odd foreigners.

10. Have a scene or two in the Hanged Man where the player and companions get a chance to explore their sexuality, chatting about dating-habits, picking up on NPCs or being picked up on? Provide insight into your companions and a chance for people to make some of their personal interest in your Hawke clear, or clearer.

Aside from what I posted above, the rest of the game would essentially stay the same with some minor modifications such as attempts at blackmailing the player if they did some unsavory things for money back when poor and maybe a few options for adding content (workers, entertainers, furnishings) to your fancy mansion.

[Uoman]

I've said this in other topics on these forums. There's really not many positive things I can say about DA2. The graphics were an improvement. Umm, it finally ended?

I've seen people post on these forums about feeling cheated by the ending after a 70hr play-through. Erm, dang, it seriously took anyone 70hrs to beat this game even completing every single side quest? I've got two play-throughs now where I managed to complete everything in under 50hrs combined for the two...

That's not an attempt to pick on anyone, honestly. I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty thumb tack than spend any more time playing DA2. There were only a small handful of areas that weren't just reused a couple dozen times. Even then, you spent so much time in those areas it was depressing.

The side quests, which is what this entire game felt like, were mostly all the same tasks repeated over and over. The majority of the time it was either the quests being repeated over and over, endlessly, or you were thrown into the same zones over and over. There are really only a few times where the game breaks that cycle. Those times are generally limited to the quests at the end of each chapter.

All that said, I can't even manage to give my copy of the game away. My local gamestop and pawnshops refuse to take it even just a week after it was released. My friends don't want it, even just straight up trying to give it to them. They either have it and are facing my same issue, rented it and didn't like it at all, played it and thought it was a bastardized hack'n'slash and/or rpg, or just have absolutely no interest in it.

I really wanted to like this game. I've given it every chance, but the more I play it or even think about it the more I despise it. This is one of only two games I have EVER felt this way about. All the articles I've read from the various bioware employees have just tried to pass off the many disappointed and upset gamers as baseless.

Rather than admitting they messed up, they say that the gamers essentially have no idea what we're talking about and that they're going to continue down the same path they did for DA2 for future games. The first month or so anywhere I l looked, including these forums, there was multiple threads with, in some cases, hundreds of pages of posts. The vast majority of which were all negative. On this forum, and some others, the threads were locked and/or deleted.

To sum it all up, the game and the way bioware reacted to the outrage their lackluster product produced have left me questioning whether or not to deal with their products in the future at all. What I do know is that I will not pre-order their stuff again. I'll probably just wait until I can see others response to the games and if it seems ok, buy a used copy just incase.

Modifié par Uoman, 05 mai 2011 - 08:30 .

[themonty72]

I like this game... highly addictive. No its not better than origins but its more mature and political, instead of dealing with monsters and a big dragon you are dealing with people such as the templars,mages, your companions and last the big bad qunaris. I love the Arishok gotta be the man of this game.I have read many fans reviews about how this game sucks, how it has no story or depth and your companions fall flat. None of that is true. I like all the companions in the game just as well as dragon origins companions( Merrill and Isabella are my favorites by the way). The companions seem more open about the path you take and will give they opinions, plus they gotta a lot of humor. They story of of this game have some beautiful writing in it act 2 is the best of three chapters. I want give no spoilers here. The things I didn't like about dragon age 2 was jumping to one place to another and having to wait because of that downloading.Open up a street, bridge, or a pathway Bioware my god and you cant swap gear on your companions. Do you know how bad I wanted to customize them. And speaking of gear most of the warriors gear sucks sometimes it look like he or she are wearing football pads and the mages....man i swear their robes look the same with different mana and stamina. I had this one robe and came across another and look the same as the rob I had on... damn. Bioware should have made some changes in Kirkwall over the years only thing i saw different were the flags with hawk symbol. They showed you how hawk had moved up in the world, but what about Varrick he was still stuck in hang man. Im sure he had some money from the expedition. I thought hangman would be stunning after years with by but it seem to me Hawk kept the money to him or herself. And last but not least everybody says it the recycled dungeons I completely agree too may times Bioware too many times. Well that about it, everything else i enjoyed the story, the combat, the graphics( little disappointed in Sundermont though) The Dalish and homeland look far better in Origins.By the way If you choose a female hawk which I did she don't walk like a stiff board or a man like she did in Orgins.

[Cyberfrog81]

4 complete playthroughs now, the last on Nightmare. Time to post in this thread.


I like...
- The voiced protagonist and the new dialogue system (it's not perfect, but it's better).
- The attempt to tell a different, more personal story, that is not yet another tale of an ancient evil. (*)
- The new qunari and their Arishok (possibly the best character in the game)
- Cross-class combos, fine selection of talents/spells
- Sandal
- That the game was more stable on my computer than DAO. Zero crashes to desktop.
- The look of Kirkwall
- The qunari plot, probably one of the more interesting parts of the game

(*) Well, on the surface the new lyrium seems pretty ancient and pretty evil


I dislike...
- Shocking re-use of areas. I often think people are too hard on DA2, but not on this particular topic... It is unacceptable.
- Force effects that cause companions and even Hawke to forget your last order. (Move there. Move! I said move over there dammit! Drink potion. Drink it already! DRINK!!! Oh, you're dead.) I get Fortitude, but this forgetting of orders is seriously annoying.
- Silly wave spawning. Hallelujah, it's raining men.
- Overly long boss fights testing your patience more than anything else.
- All the small quests (I don't just mean side quests, but most secondary and companion quests as well). While they may not be 95% pointless filler, that's what they feel like.
- TOO MUCH COMBAT. I did very well on Nightmare, so it's not about being frustrated. The combat isn't bad, but it outstays its welcome and definitely feels like it's there to make the game longer (as opposed to "richer" or "better"); clearly the situation is not helped by area re-use.
- The disconnect I feel (getting gradually worse throughout the game) between story and gameplay. And it's not just the little things, like Isabella yelling, "I'll make you cry for your mother!" in the Quentin battle, or Merrill giggling about Aveline and Donnic literally right after (before leaving the map) slaughtering her entire clan.
- That the game clearly tries (too hard) to win the hearts of action game fans, traditional RPG fans AND casual gamers, without really impressing any of the groups.
- While graphics are better, it is unfortunate that it took a while for nvidia to catch up with their drivers.


I don't hate the game. There is an addictive quality to it. But I also have to admit that I expected a better title from BioWare. It could have been another fantastic experience, but for whatever reasons it doesn't completely work for me. It's not about not liking change. DAO was a great game, but I didn't fall in love with it. I truly believed you could deliver something different AND better. And you didn't.