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Dragon Age II Fan Review thread


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#801
Guest_Dwarfs Have Night Vision _*

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Right This is the first time I've commented in Bioware Social, I usually stick to the wiki so forgive me If I've done anything wrong :innocent:

Anyway I really liked Both Dragon Age's And wish people gave the credit it deserved, yes it was rushed but never the less still an amazing game.

Pro's:
Better Combat
Dialogue wheel
Better side quests
The fact that its 'Grown up' in a sense
Comedy
Better Romances
More Differences between Race's
Characters returning
Both you and Companions Have a home Base
Better Leveling Up System
All I can think of at this point

Con's:
There are schedule points where you can talk to companions, I liked where you could go up and talk to them makes romances a whole lot better
Re-used landscape
Anders won't take No for an Answer
Restrictions on Hair colour If you don't choose Black like Bethany and Carver then it  look's like your mother cheated on your dad
All I can thin of right now :P

#802
MikoDoll

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Do the devs actually look at this thread?

#803
Thothistox

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MikoDoll wrote...

Do the devs actually look at this thread?


I don't know but they definitely deserve to read and brood over every word.

#804
TGiNcRySiS

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The fact that some serious choices don't affect outcomes is very disappointing. They really should have implemented a Mass Effect style consequences string. I have played a full playthrough as a mage and I am finishing Act2 as a warrior. The game is okay, it grew on me but it hasn't even come close to leaving the lasting impression DAO did. Characters aren't memorable, no boss battle that wowed me.  Some side and secondary quests just have no guidance and some are still glitched. I guess I would rate it as average. Consolitis just killed it but if you take it for what it is it's okay.

Oh yeah and the Anders thing really pissed me off. Same ole environments gets real old.  Oh and the fact that Bethany died at the end of the deep roads and I lost the staff she was carrying pissed me off.  Pertially my fault for not having a save to revert back to but c'mon.

Modifié par TGiNcRySiS, 10 mai 2011 - 06:27 .


#805
Marille

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I posted my review already, but I wanted to express my feelings about one more thing: lack of toolset.
I decided to play DAO once again and I found many mods that fixed almost everything that bothered me in original game (female body models, granny underwear, zombie teeth, love scenes, no "hide helmet" option etc.) and added some nice content. All thanks to toolset. With DA2, I see mostly reskins or head morphs. They're great, but with toolset, you can do so much more.

That will bite you in the ass, Bioware, because among many things modders fixed, were game bugs. So, have fun making patches and dealing with angry gamers.

Modifié par Marille, 15 mai 2011 - 05:54 .


#806
Eladamri

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Like:
- i think the combat is the best improvement of the game: mages can actually fight, rogues have awesome moves, its more fun and exciting watching the fight...
- i only end the game so far with a mage, but its cool you can have a mage that is not a god, like DAO: at the time you choose a arcane warrior with the king cailan's armor and the rock armor spell you are immortal (lol)... even with nightmare difficulty.
- The new dialogue wheel its very helpful, you can see the effects of your decisions... and ask your party for opinions.
- Graphics are better...
- One thing that is very cool its a fact that the spells only show in battle. i don't think its cool wearing the rock armor in the middle of kirkwall =D
- Robes are not weak anymore


Dislike:
- I miss the random encounters by traveling the map, makes you improve your strategy when you have a weak party.
- caves, tunnels, are all the same, this is a total failure... i think dragon age needs a open world...
- you guys do a awesome job in flemeth and the qunari race, and then, you make elves that look like white avatars?
- Dont like the dark spawn movements they are not scary as DAO
- i miss the interaction with your party talking about their lives gain their approval and unlock their quest. listen what they say in their stories and give them the right gifts...
- Why you remove the the chance of having 2 weapon gear?, in DAO i could use in my warrior a set for killing darkspawn, and 1 for undead or dragons... with that i could use more weapons, instead of putting in store of selling them.

Final thoughts:
- Everyone miss morrigan, but i think you guys do the right thing not making a connection between hawke and her.
But if you guys are thinking to do a DA3, please make a bigger game: a bigger map, something like, going to orlais, fereldan, antivan, tevinter, kirkwall, etc... lots of darkspawn (because its our favorite enemy)... Main character as the first warden, party members like, alistair, varric, morrigan, hawke (i think hawke its more fun as a party member), join the 2 games, make an epic battle between mankind and a freaking sleeping old god the awakes and threats the entire world, with some scary darkspawn that dont move like teletubbies(DA2)...

seriously, now i think you have right material to give us an freaking awesome RPG... so please give us an epic DA3... =D

sorry about my english, i've tried my best...

#807
Cyclone Prime

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I really hope this gets seen because I feel like the minority saying this but

Armor restrictions for companions should be removed and switched back to Origins style customization. I understand that part of the reason was to "clean up" then UI but I feel as though the restriction made it worse. In DA2 although the user can precisely see what Armor they can wear, what about the armor they can't wear (It's Useless). At least in Origins my character may not have been able to wear certain armor, but at least my companions could make good use of it. However in origins the only function armor has is to sell it(lame). Having to run around collecting armor upgrades (that weren't visible may i add) seemed to tedious rather than rewarding.

Also the back tracking in the game made every quest feel like a fetch quest, and seemed like a ploy to stretch out the amount of time so that it made the game as long as Origins, but that may just be how i perceived it

#808
Cyclone Prime

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PS I'd love something that lets us know what your improving, looking into, etc.. maybe a Staff only thread so we know what to expect or which concerns your addressing. that would give us more incentive to post concerns while avoiding many people just reposting the same topic. OR individual concerns threads so that if we give you feedback it all isn't rolled up into one overwhelming thread.

#809
TheRevanchist

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In short...this sums it up quite nicely.

While many might say Yahtzee isn't a "legitamate" critic...I tend to think hes right on the money with every game he reviews. I personaly would go alot farther than Yahtzee actually...I think he was rather generous in his bashing. There are a great many things about this game that made me sigh in disapointment, primarily complaints about the story and the blatent disregard for player choice. "Oh you killed Leliana? TOO BAD SHES ALIVE AND IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTENT CHARACTERS EVA!!!" "Oh you let Anders die? TOO BAD HES BACK CUZ OF SOME SPIRIT WE DECIDED HE MET REGARDLESS OF YOUR CHOICES!" Oh and "Hawkes gone just like the Warden"? Nice word-play Bioware...just vauge enough to defend yourself against the obvious. Really I would create a whole paragraph of examples but it's pointless as I'm sure they've all been discussed to death by now...

#810
be Realistic

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Dragon Age 2... where do i begin

worst bioware game in a long long time
i admit that the fighting in this game was a lot funner and more fast paced than in da 1 IF your playing on normal or lower.
if you decide to play on hard or nightmare..(cuz lets face it any other difficulty makes the game so ez thats its not even fun)..........it's not so much that the battles are harder but that they take so long to complete that it takes away the enjoyment...

The storyline was terrible.
its almost as if they made the game JUST so they could have more money to make ME 3.. and i mean it.. ME3 better be so damn good that i forget all about this poor excuse of a game..

the constant recycling of areas and having to explore those same areas over and over again was mind numbing to say the least.

The fact that each ally you had can only use certain weapons and skills is the worst concept i could think of (ie.. aveline could only use sword and shield..isabella can only use 2 daggers..and so on). The only 2 characters even remotely worth having on your team are varric (cuz hes a beast) and anders (only cuz he can play the healer role........the only charcter that can be a healer unless u decide to roll mage)

The ridiculous amount of tedious and boring side quests that they make you do should have been scrapped for a better and more detailed storyline.

there are so many things wrong with this game that it would take me as long as it took me to beat the game to explain its faults. I understand that they are using it as a prologue of sorts for a DA 3 which imo is a terrible idea.
i would rather see a Dragon Age Origins 2 then a Dragon Age 3 if that makes sense.

WoRsT EnDiNg EvEr
i hope bioware is embarrased.......they tryed to turn dragon age into mass effect and failed.

all in all.. i wont bother getting all the achievements for this game cuz frankly i dont know if i could stand a second playthrough.
i'll go back to dragon age origins even though i've beaten it so many times its kinda sad.

............

#811
be Realistic

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The only reason they made it so u can only be human was cuz of the whole family "going back to your roots" aspect they had in the game...THE STORYLINE WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOr THAT BIOWARE.......bring back more personal customization and ally customization................................god there are so many things wrong with this game...i'm just gunna stop

#812
be Realistic

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anything i say will not do justice to the injustice that this game has commited

#813
tomorrowstation

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be Realistic wrote...

anything i say will not do justice to the injustice that this game has commited


And yet, DA2 is the only Bioware game that you have registered.

#814
be Realistic

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i just signed up like 3 hours ago...
this is the only forum i have ever wrote on besides WoW
thats how bad this game was
the truth needed to be told


kotor 1 & 2
ME 1 & 2
Dragon age Origins and DA 2

played and beat em all

#815
tomorrowstation

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be Realistic wrote...

i just signed up like 3 hours ago...
this is the only forum i have ever wrote on besides WoW
thats how bad this game was
the truth needed to be told


kotor 1 & 2
ME 1 & 2
Dragon age Origins and DA 2

played and beat em all


As long as your "truth" applies to you and you alone, rock on, my man. And welcome to the forums.

#816
Matthew Starr

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be Realistic wrote...

Dragon Age 2... where do i begin

worst bioware game in a long long time
i admit that the fighting in this game was a lot funner and more fast paced than in da 1 IF your playing on normal or lower.
if you decide to play on hard or nightmare..(cuz lets face it any other difficulty makes the game so ez thats its not even fun)..........it's not so much that the battles are harder but that they take so long to complete that it takes away the enjoyment...

The storyline was terrible.
its almost as if they made the game JUST so they could have more money to make ME 3.. and i mean it.. ME3 better be so damn good that i forget all about this poor excuse of a game..

the constant recycling of areas and having to explore those same areas over and over again was mind numbing to say the least.

The fact that each ally you had can only use certain weapons and skills is the worst concept i could think of (ie.. aveline could only use sword and shield..isabella can only use 2 daggers..and so on). The only 2 characters even remotely worth having on your team are varric (cuz hes a beast) and anders (only cuz he can play the healer role........the only charcter that can be a healer unless u decide to roll mage)

The ridiculous amount of tedious and boring side quests that they make you do should have been scrapped for a better and more detailed storyline.

there are so many things wrong with this game that it would take me as long as it took me to beat the game to explain its faults. I understand that they are using it as a prologue of sorts for a DA 3 which imo is a terrible idea.
i would rather see a Dragon Age Origins 2 then a Dragon Age 3 if that makes sense.

WoRsT EnDiNg EvEr
i hope bioware is embarrased.......they tryed to turn dragon age into mass effect and failed.

all in all.. i wont bother getting all the achievements for this game cuz frankly i dont know if i could stand a second playthrough.
i'll go back to dragon age origins even though i've beaten it so many times its kinda sad.

............

I completely agree with this guy!
Even with how obnoxious and boring the combat was, I did 7 play-throughs of Dragon Age: Origins but Ive only been able to to 1 full playthrough of Dragon Age 2 because chapter 1 is so aweful I cant bring myself to do a second one. This game is AN EPIC AND MASSIVE FAIL!!!!!!
YOU TOOK AWAY EVERYTHING THAT WAS GOOD ABOUT DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS AND ONLY MADE IMPROVEMENTS ON COMBAT, WTF!!!!!!!!

Its a good thing Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favorite games of all time or else Bioware would have lost me as a customer (not that I matter but from what Ive read, many others feel the same). 

#817
KLGChaos

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I really enjoyed the game. Thought it was fun, combat-wise, but didn't live up to DA:O storywise, character-wise and environment-wise. My biggest issue were the recycled areas, obviously, not being able to change companions armor and the glitches. The glitches are the worst, especially the one that affects romance dialogue later with a returning character from DA:O and might carry over into DA3... I really don't want to have to play my Warrior over again from the beginning just because I chose to import from WH and not Origins.

#818
macrocarl

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I posted in a thread like this, maybe this one? I hope not, but if so I apologize. Anyway, I really enjoyed DA2.
Things I thought you did spot on:
VO'd characters are the wave of the future. I get real into playing a character and hearing what pops out of their mouth depending on the situation and stance I take. I love love love the funny option. There is some seriously hilarious moments in the dialog! Also there is some super dark **** that goes down with the Arishok and the Chantry where I was kind of slack jawed at how cold it was. Very cool.
The new art style was much more distinct and there was some truly eye popping areas.
The wheel is good! But see dislikes below......
Thought the side quests were done well. One thing I thought lacking in ME2 was the level of interaction your followers had with your side missions. They felt actually there in the room and I thought that really made a huge difference in actually being immersed.
Glad you turned spell effects off during dialog scenes. They were much much too distracting with cookie crumbles falling off a character's face and weird glowy bits. Glad you did that!
I actually liked the ending, but am worried that being a 'dark fantasy' might slip into being super cynical. I know in the past Mr. Gaider has mentioned reading 'Game of Thrones' and while I conceptually see what those books are doing for the fantasy genre, in the end I got tired or all the betrayal and everyone being so damn selfish. I'm not saying that people aren't motivated for their own reasons, I just hope that they aren't always governed by selfishness.
Thought the new combat looked cool! But fights being longer as apposed to actually harder needs to be addressed.
I really thought the romances were strong. I just wish there were more instances where if a LI is in the party they would mention it from time to time in their party banter. Or more scenes! I think you all write them very well, so of course I want MOAR!!!! :D
Dislikes:
All RPG games have side quests. While I like where you are going, I hope that more connectivity to the main plot is there. I felt kind of lost at some points.
LOTSB did a really good job of varying what to expect. Jumping into cars, falling out of windows etc. etc. We need more of that! Variation within a quest! There's only so much mileage in being like THERE'S A HIDDEN CHEST!
While I'm super happy the side quests didn't feel like playing in a vacuum the reused areas gets visually boring. Sorry, but that's how I felt. Particularly through my 2nd play through.
The hair and weird beards that have clipping issues or sit on faces strangely totally is lame. While I said that I do love the new art, I seriously think that beards being all screwed up is bad for a genre of might beards.
I think distinct costumes for characters makes sense in combat except for I can't really see all the combat going on because we can't get a bird's eye view.
The flag import errors are super annoying. I went back to DA:O and replayed the ending 7 times I **** you not! Just to get around Morrigan's romance bug and then I found out my cannon Hawke's play through didn't carry them over. This seriously needs to be addressed.
Again about the wheel, the paraphrasing needs to be better because there was a bunch of times I felt misled and had to reload.
Thanks for listening to us BW!

#819
Daveros

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The story of DA2 was wonderful: How long was the game setting you up with "Who is the Champion?", etc - all you ended up as was a catalyst, a catalyst caught in the middle of a storm.

Your companions, each and every one of them (save probably Isabella) was trying to do the best that they could. Merrill just wanted to save the Elves, her clan, as they were the single most important thing to her, more than Hawke or anyone. Was she going about it the wrong way? Almost certainly, she was using forces she couldn't begin to understand but she was doing them for the right reasons. But, if the keeper hadn't been an abomination for all those years, poisoning the clan, turning them on Merrill, it most certainly wouldn't have ended the same way.

Anders plays himself as the antitheses of Merideth, but he isn't, he's just as bad. It still doesn't mean he doesn't believe he's done good. It makes for a hard choice for Hawke, and can completely change his decision. Why should he side with the mages? They're not looking to be agreeable, either. We all know what happened in Tevinter, and if it wasn't for the mages there wouldn't have been a blight - so you can sympathise with Merideth. But Merideth isn't going to be someone whom would listen to reason, she's backed these mages into a corner and every single one of them is either going to have to react or die. Anders just reacted.

None of your decisions change the eventual outcome, but neither should they. You're just one man and this is the entire would of Thedas that is about to be altered. It's good to play a game that heightens your emotional response but make it that your actions turn out to be useless, to have done no good. It's the way things really are.

I adore the game, it's utterly brilliant in that everyone is set up for a fall. No one leaves Kirkwall unscathed, and one of the biggest wounds for Hawke is that he couldn't have prevented it from happening.

It may be fantasy, but it carries with it that sense of realism in the character development that is sorely missing from a lot of the games out there.

I wouldn't change it for the world.

#820
Sajuro

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Story: I loved it, it did exactly what it set out to do and got us to the point of who is the Champion of Kirkwall and how did they get to the point of being interrogated by a seeker of the chantry. The ending came suddenly I'll admit, but it was very satisfying as it did end.

Combat: It was much better than Dragon Age: Origins in my opinion, it wasn't too easy but unlike Origins I never found myself running out of potions or droughts in the middle of the dungeon which came as a relief to me. I also used the radial menus often to coordinate what my team would do. The only real complaint I have about combat is that my Warrior Hawke had a pention for using shield bash even though I have had her equipped with a two handed sword for most of the game, other then that the Companion AI has been improved so Varric didn't go up to whack the dragon with bianca because he could unlike my rogue warden who ran towards the enemies when wielding a bow and arrow. I will admit spawning got silly, but I can't complain about it since it gave me a challenge and taught me to keep my team close together in the early parts of the game.

Character: = D, I thought they were much better then the characters in Origins, though I must say Fenris might as well have been an expie of Sten for his demeanour and how much he talked to my character. Also he was the easiest of the companions to troll in the game. I liked the friend and rival system much better then the approval and disapproval system, and the minimizing of the gift giving system was a spot on move. The interactions between characters gave them more life in my opinion and since Hawke wasn't around to hear everything about it, that gave the world that much more depth. My one problem other then Fenris, who I shall call Mr. Gothpants from now on, was that you couldn't engage in dialogue wheel conversation whenever you wanted to, just for small talk at least. Oh and I loved the dialogue wheel amd the symbols

#821
Fukairi

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I don't know if I'm the only one, but DA II really sucked me in a lot more than origins did. The character seemed a lot more alive now when fully voiced : ) Also the moral choices were better... I mean through the story, not just the last one since... Well it was just there through the whole game. But for example how to end "night terrors". It was really interesting. Sure the maps were recycled, but it's not like the scenery is anything to admire anyway... I mean there are trees. And rocks. And the same a bit boring sunlight (or moonlight). No sunrays scattered by treebranches. Just the sunlight and the trees :D So yes I didn't really care or bother about the backgrounds (except for some plotmaps, like the map with the giant idol. I wish they'd just removed the idol or something, that one actually did bother me a little). If I wish to look at majestetic scenery I can play ICO or SOTC but clearly the maps where you spend around around 5-15 min each for random encounters weren't the main focus when making the game and I can understand that. Anyway enough about that.
I also liked the fact that it spawned over several years and that you couldn't just spam your relationship with a character to over 40 in one night at camp, or just at the road side. The relationships were built over the years (and during quests!) which was a major improvement, but there could've been a few more dialogue scenes for each. Because you only had about six proper dialogue scenes (which all rocked btw, loved the expressions and voice acting!) or something with the characters they did feel a bit shallow in the end.

The rivalry-friendship slider was a nice touch, nice to have the option of not taking **** from a character and still have their respect! In origins I was always pressured to befriend everyone because I didn't want to lose any party members. So due to that I always agreed with everyone or tried to be neutral... Which kinda cut my RPGing short :---D


But more cons. WHERE ARE THE PUZZLES AND RIDDLES I ASK. I love puzzle games and the lovely and long Fade which was like a giant puzzle itself was one of my favourite maps in Origins! So naturally I was a tad put out that the fade in DA II was so...pathetic. I ran through it in 10 minutes or so and the puzzles were too easy! More Gauntlents and a longer fade I say! Also the hidden dragon in orzammar was satisfying to find out, the pride demon was just...no. : (

And  can you guys stop making dalish elves so freaking stupid : I I mean in origins you relied on tamlens stupidity to advance the plot (Damn that idiot I told him atleast five times not to go into the cave and not to touch that mirror which was clearly eeeeviiiiilll!) but to do the same with merrill.... That's just tacky : I Or I don't know can it be blamed on something like pride on her heritage and stubborness...But it really struck me as sheer stupidity. When visiting her in Act II and seeing the mirror I literally facepalmed and said out loud "Oh god not this again". But well the eluvian is no more atleast, unless another stupid elf comes and decides to restore it. Which has been known to happen.

Buuut Yay, politics! Act II was the best part of the game so many hard decisions <3 I enjoyed it atleast as much as the blight quest in Orzammar in Origins! So I wish to see more of politics in the third installment. The adversaries were better too, especially Arishok, preferred him over loghain & co. And even if Orsino and Meredith both seemed a bit cheap, they surely did beat a horde of ugly mutts and a dragon with no personality whatsoever. They just were there and wanted to kill you. I have never been able to enjoy adversaries like that in a game. I mean as the main boss. But please please pleease no more abominations spawning from the floor. I forgot they were actually supposed to be mages. There were just too many of them....And they indeed were spawning from the floor. Actually a lot of the mage bosses seemed to use them as a help like they used shades which reeeaaally didn't make any sense.


Combat (and Mages especially) improved a lot, though rogues were limited too much which made them boring. I wanted to pickpocket and fail at it once more. And dual wield longswords which sounds stupid but it did look cool.

Aaanyway yeah I wish DA 3 will be more like DA 2 than like DA:O :D. Although choosing your race is all fine and dandy but the origins stories had so little effect on the actual story so if I can't play with an elf or a cute dwarven girl I think I will manage. Just keep the plot going into the epic direction it's going <3

Modifié par Fukairi, 24 mai 2011 - 06:42 .


#822
Xewaka

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I've wrote an extensive review of the game, which can be found here.
http://social.biowar...659/blog/48928/
I'll repost it here for reader convenience:

A too long review of Dragon Age 2

After completing and mulling over about the game’s flaws and hits, I’ve decided to write up a review of the same, highlighting some of the more contentious points in the game. I will visit in no particular order several points of contention that need to be adressed to improve the quality of future titles.
Warning, there will be a few spoilers, in “The family angle” section and “Story and Gameplay segregation”, due to the nature of the topic they cover.

Combat gameplay.
The force/fortitude concept is an intriguing one. It could use some tweaking, but it adds a very interesting effect to the combat dynamic. The Cross class Combo is a nice feature that reinforces the theme of a well balanced and coordinated party; it's a pity it came at the cost of intra-class combos, though, as it means at least two party members can’t cooperate between themselves, as there will always be at least a doubled class in the group.
The combat style is unexpected, at first. The way it mixes deliberate, pause and play style with a more active dodging (due to the way collision detection works in bosses) will probably confuse players who favor either, until they realize the need to hybridize their play style. This combined with damage and casting moved from the conclusion of the animation to the start of it may, at first, give the illusion of a more responsive, faster gameplay. However, when coupled with the active dodging it actually becomes the opposite: The animation must run to conclusion once an action is started, so snap reaction time is much worse. You can’t interrupt yourself once an action is started, which hurts the intended faster combat pacing. It is made worse by the fact that even autoattacks are affected by this rule, which runs counter to the faster paced combat: you cannot snap-react to the battlefield, destroying the illusion of action-based gameplay, and due to the need of active dodging you cannot fight in the deliberate, detached manner that party-based pause and play game style allows.
The wave reinforce mechanic, despite being a good idea, is poorly executed in game by sheer amount of repetition and haphazard position. When practically every fight consists of at the very least three waves of enemies, instead of being used judiciously to challenge the player at specific points, they get old fast. The fact that there are points at which the waves simply spawn out of thin air, rather than being at least handwaved as dropping from the ceilings / balconies, hurts the credibility of the system. Taking a look at how Drakensang (for example) handles reinforcement waves, they’re better integrated there: walls collapse and locked doors open to let the wave come in. They’re not used in every combat, but only when it would make sense and make the fight more challenging.
I should probably mention the recycled fight scenarios, but since it has been covered by practically every review, I think that point can be skipped.

Non-combat gameplay.
It would be nice to have some.
DA 2 quickly enters a “Fight. Talk. Fight. Talk” dynamic and never really abandons it. Relying on a single gameplay element to pull the player across the whole game is a mistake, as doing basically the same motions over and over builds fatigue upon the player. The game is in dire need of some breath room to break its cyclic pace and give the player a refreshing new challenge. Varric's act 2 mission does this to a point, and it is a much needed relief. As a whole, however, the lack of a good puzzle level – or other similar pace breaker – hurts the progression and enjoyment of the game. Fatigue builds upon the player with no real breather level to break the monotony of fight after fight, and the player is never challenged in a new, different, engaging way through the game.

Main Character Building and Customization
The removal of off-combat skills (Coercion, Herbalism, Survival, etc) while at first seems to reduce the clog in the leveling system, it also has an unintended malign effect: It further destroys the illusion that there's more to the game than fighting. Not that there actually is more to the game than fighting (as the previous section noted) but giving the player absolutely no way to influence the world in a way other than by hitting people with sharp sticks makes it painfully clear: we’re not creating a character, we’re building a lawnmower.
It is a very fun lawnmower to build, don’t get me wrong, and the skill webs are leaps and bounds above the linear talents/spells in Origins. But still, it feels as if half the character sheet is missing.
Itemization in the game could be better. Yes, the star code allows for at-a-glance evaluations, which will be needed, as it is the only way to tell items from the same type apart, and even then. What happened to the ambient text? Where are the short writings about the story of the weapon, armor, or complement and the crafter behind it? Where is the flavor? Equipment is just a bunch of raw statistics, nothing to make them stand out. Again, they serve their purpose, and there is enough loot lying around to never need to visit a shop – and still get some very good equipment from those. Overall, while the character building is functional and the combat skills are well designed, the inventory lack of flavor and the non-existent non-combat skills make the character feel less like a character and more like a set of skill combos.

Companion Characterization and Customization
It is done the wrong way. In order to give each companion an unique feel, the player's options to tinker with them have been cut with no compensation for these changes. Characterization has to come from additions and trade-offs, not from restrictions. To show an example of characterization done well, allow me to go down the nostalgia road and bring up one of the most beloved Bioware companions: Minsc. Minsc is a man of the wilds, a barbarian. However, when Baldur's Gate came out, there was no such class in the D&D rulebook. So they took the next best thing (a Ranger), and gave to him an additional Berserk skill. In addition, to further cement his quirky nature, they traded the regular animal companion of a Ranger for Boo, a quick slot item that increased Minsc's damage output. By a single addition and a trade-off, Minsc became this unique, beloved character. This is the proper way to characterize companions: Additions and trade-offs. This way, the companions are given their own flair, their own personality, without getting in the way of gameplay. It allows the player to build the party based not on class-skill combinations, but rather, by choice of companions. It allows a greater enjoyment of the game.
Redundancy and overlapping within companions is a good thing, as it allows a higher party composition variety. Specially considering the emphasis on teamwork, having the team variety in options limited hurts party building possibilities. You're pretty much forced to pick an specific companion or do it yourself if you want a certain role in the party covered. Not that there shouldn't be specialists, but rather than a specialist shouldn't be the only one to perform his specialization task: being the best at something shouldn't mean being the only option to do said thing.
However, neither of those things are present in DA 2 companions: Their character sheet is even more restricted than Hawke’s, with less personalization options, and they have random skill trees missing. Even if it could be justified for the mundane characters (as weapon specialists), Magi characters being barred a spell school for no good reason simply does not make sense.
The limitations in customization and specialization placed around the characters are arbitrary restrictions that serve no true gameplay purpose, and limit the player’s creativity for no apparent reason. You might say it’s to properly characterize the companions, but as I explained earlier, I do not consider it a valid reason, when said characterization can be done in a much more engaging and creative way.

“The family angle”

*SPOILERS*

Apparently, in creator lingo, “exploring the family angle” equals “setting up a source of cheap, easy emotional punches for the player”. And the worst part is that it fails at it. The first family member we mmet that will be killed is killed in the prologue, before the player has had a chance to actually connect with the characters. And the way the characters act reinforces the feeling that the death was superficial and meaningless, there only for a perceived shock value: even the gameplay bit immediately after the scene destroys any semblance of impact the death could have (more on that later). There’s a similar scene at the act 1 finale, that only triggers if certain conditions are met, that has a much more meaningful impact in the player. By that point, the player has had time to become familiar with said character: we’re not being asked to care five minutes into the game, but after six hours of meeting and interacting with the character: the scene actually has weight because the player has been allowed to build a connection.
Then there comes another act 2 quest that tries to capitalize on this but fails. Mostly because at its resolution, the player is struck with the following thought “I’m talking to the magically animated disembodied head of my mother grafted to a rag built body”; which completely destroys any meaningful impact the scene might have had.

*END SPOILERS*

Gameplay and Storyline segregation
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most glaring, crippling, off-putting, recurring failure in the game. At every turn, the story the dialogue and codex tells, and the story the world and gameplay tells, are completely unrelated.
The dialogue tells that Kirkwall is overcrowded with refugees, and even before, it was already a bustling community. What we travel around is an almost deserted city with a scarce population that look more like cardboard cuts than actual people.
The dialogues with Bethany and the codex reflect a heavy Templar presence, and her fear that using her powers would result in her capture. The gameplay has us casting spells openly all around Kirkwall, several times in front of Templars, and they wouldn’t bat an eyelash.
The codex and dialogues reveal that Blood Magic is a risky affair, and that the power it grants ends corrupting the user beyond redemption; it also tells us that said forbidden lore can only be learnt by dealing with demons or cooperating with other corrupted mages. Gameplay has us spend a talent point and never throws the consequences at the player.
The slides and dialogue tell years pass between acts, yet no character changes looks, no merchants open new business, every city NPC (all three of them) remain exactly at the same place, leaving the whole city in stasis for the duration of the game.
I could go on, but I think I made this point clear: the lore and the gameplay tell two different, completely unrelated, and usually conflicting stories, and the player is at a loss of which one he’s supposed to follow, destroying any attempt at immersion.

The Story
I salute the effort in trying to show a different plot than “Hero saves the day”. I really enjoyed the fact that Hawke is not a hero, but a war profiteer that uses every chance he/she gets to turn the situation to his/her advantage. However, the former point –gameplay and story segregation – dilutes a lot of the impact the story would have, as the two conflicting stories we’re being told muddy the three vignettes about Hawke’s life changing events (his reclaim of his noblehood, his ascension to champion, and his involvement in the first battle of the mage revolution). The conflicting lore and gameplay do a disservice to the events in Hawke’s life we’re supposed to be caring about.

The Paraphrase Wheel
First things first, the way the paraphrase wheel mechanic works in Dragon Age 2 is an improvement over former Bioware examples (read: Mass Effect) and less of a headache. Then again, bashing your head against a wall until you hear a wet snap is also less of a headache than Mass Effect wheel; but you take your victories where you can.
The inclusion of the tone icons is there to help the character understand better the meaning of the paraphrases. However, they only clarify intent, not content. We’re still doing guesswork rather than choices, as we still don’t know what will be said, only how. This difference between intent and content needs to be pointed out: Choosing a dialogue option should be based on content, not intent, as choices are only meaningful when we know WHAT our character will say, rather than HOW. Being surprised by our own character is the fastest way to destroy the enjoyment of the game.
As a matter of fact, when we need the clarification the icons should bring the most is when they fail: choices. When we’re asked to take a position, the icons do absolutely nothing to help us know what each choice will actually mean: we’re left again at the mercy of incomplete paraphrases that do not carry enough information for us to know if the paraphrase we’re choosing is actually the stance our character would take. Simply put, paraphrases fail as a method of conveying information to the player, and due to their strict character limitations they can never convey enough information to allow the player to make informed choices; the best thing they can offer is educated guesses. And that is simply not good enough.
This huge, glaring defect is apparently offset by the voice over benefits. Due to my specific situation (I play the game in Spanish, an idiom the game is subbed but not dubbed to), I must endure all the drawbacks a voiced character comes with without enjoying any of the alleged benefits. I’m sure those benefits are there: I’m having a hard time figuring out how they can offset the glaring drawback of removing character control from the player in a RPG.
Now, I understand the reason behind the paraphrases: apparently subvocalization was a big enough problem in the focus test groups that there was the need to *force* the players to listen to the voice over by removing the subtitles and putting paraphrases instead of full lines. After several conversations with a fellow forumite (Upsettingshorts), and excellent fellow who actually experiences the subvocalization issue, we came up with a solution of compromise that would allow the paraphrases to remain while allowing people who want to know the exact content of the line to do so as well: Holdover over a paraphrase option for a few seconds would cause the subtitle associated with the full line to show up in the subtitle section. This allows both parties to be satisfied, as those with subvocalization problems can consider the paraphrase alone while those who want to know the full content of the line can simply wait a bit to learn its content.

Overall conclusion
It’s a pity. A better execution of the game, a better intertwining of gameplay and story, a more polished character and companion development, a more worked out combat system and encounter design would have made the game much better than the product we have in our hands, which feels unfinished. We can glimpse the game it wanted to be, it was supposed to be, around the cracks, and it is a much more engaging experience than the game that came out. The flashes of brilliance, specially the new story angle, are muted by all the gaping flaws in the product.


And I can’t even play as a Dorf.

#823
Cyberarmy

Cyberarmy
  • Members
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-Combat is now a lot faster thank god i just blow my cooldowns, jump and charge from one enemy to other. No need to spend time to get in a strategic position or scouting enemies with rogues or coming back later for any enemies that is beyond my power and level.And wawe mechaic is so coool.

-No puzzles(oh there is the hard one in the Fade damn you Bio) really thank to that is all holy. No need to numb my precious mind on such things.Just hack&slash.

-Unique and highly memorable companions. Each of them created with profesional care.Another time saver here, İ dont need to talk them to found if they need anything they come to me or telepathicaly send me a quest.Thank god. And another bonus i dont need to spend hours to equip them!

-High replayablity.Oh my the choices.Game changes every time i play.Each playthrough is a vast new game experience.

-The delivery quests are fantastic! No more searching the needlesly created wilds for stupid quest,items or NPCs.

-New artstyle is so stylish.The beatiful Kirkwall and her beatiful residants.DX11 graphic and effects are high above nowadays games.The cave and house designs are also splendid thanks for using them all the time.


the new brilliant "crafting" system.Shame on me for crafting like a fool so long.Let the peasants craft for me.

Thank you for this Awesome game Bioware and EA.Thank you.

#824
Thothistox

Thothistox
  • Members
  • 18 messages

Xewaka wrote...

I've wrote an extensive review of the game, which can be found here.
http://social.biowar...659/blog/48928/
I'll repost it here for reader convenience:

A too long review of Dragon Age 2

After completing and mulling over about the game’s flaws and hits, I’ve decided to write up a review of the same, highlighting some of the more contentious points in the game. I will visit in no particular order several points of contention that need to be adressed to improve the quality of future titles.
Warning, there will be a few spoilers, in “The family angle” section and “Story and Gameplay segregation”, due to the nature of the topic they cover.

Combat gameplay.
The force/fortitude concept is an intriguing one. It could use some tweaking, but it adds a very interesting effect to the combat dynamic. The Cross class Combo is a nice feature that reinforces the theme of a well balanced and coordinated party; it's a pity it came at the cost of intra-class combos, though, as it means at least two party members can’t cooperate between themselves, as there will always be at least a doubled class in the group.
The combat style is unexpected, at first. The way it mixes deliberate, pause and play style with a more active dodging (due to the way collision detection works in bosses) will probably confuse players who favor either, until they realize the need to hybridize their play style. This combined with damage and casting moved from the conclusion of the animation to the start of it may, at first, give the illusion of a more responsive, faster gameplay. However, when coupled with the active dodging it actually becomes the opposite: The animation must run to conclusion once an action is started, so snap reaction time is much worse. You can’t interrupt yourself once an action is started, which hurts the intended faster combat pacing. It is made worse by the fact that even autoattacks are affected by this rule, which runs counter to the faster paced combat: you cannot snap-react to the battlefield, destroying the illusion of action-based gameplay, and due to the need of active dodging you cannot fight in the deliberate, detached manner that party-based pause and play game style allows.
The wave reinforce mechanic, despite being a good idea, is poorly executed in game by sheer amount of repetition and haphazard position. When practically every fight consists of at the very least three waves of enemies, instead of being used judiciously to challenge the player at specific points, they get old fast. The fact that there are points at which the waves simply spawn out of thin air, rather than being at least handwaved as dropping from the ceilings / balconies, hurts the credibility of the system. Taking a look at how Drakensang (for example) handles reinforcement waves, they’re better integrated there: walls collapse and locked doors open to let the wave come in. They’re not used in every combat, but only when it would make sense and make the fight more challenging.
I should probably mention the recycled fight scenarios, but since it has been covered by practically every review, I think that point can be skipped.

Non-combat gameplay.
It would be nice to have some.
DA 2 quickly enters a “Fight. Talk. Fight. Talk” dynamic and never really abandons it. Relying on a single gameplay element to pull the player across the whole game is a mistake, as doing basically the same motions over and over builds fatigue upon the player. The game is in dire need of some breath room to break its cyclic pace and give the player a refreshing new challenge. Varric's act 2 mission does this to a point, and it is a much needed relief. As a whole, however, the lack of a good puzzle level – or other similar pace breaker – hurts the progression and enjoyment of the game. Fatigue builds upon the player with no real breather level to break the monotony of fight after fight, and the player is never challenged in a new, different, engaging way through the game.

Main Character Building and Customization
The removal of off-combat skills (Coercion, Herbalism, Survival, etc) while at first seems to reduce the clog in the leveling system, it also has an unintended malign effect: It further destroys the illusion that there's more to the game than fighting. Not that there actually is more to the game than fighting (as the previous section noted) but giving the player absolutely no way to influence the world in a way other than by hitting people with sharp sticks makes it painfully clear: we’re not creating a character, we’re building a lawnmower.
It is a very fun lawnmower to build, don’t get me wrong, and the skill webs are leaps and bounds above the linear talents/spells in Origins. But still, it feels as if half the character sheet is missing.
Itemization in the game could be better. Yes, the star code allows for at-a-glance evaluations, which will be needed, as it is the only way to tell items from the same type apart, and even then. What happened to the ambient text? Where are the short writings about the story of the weapon, armor, or complement and the crafter behind it? Where is the flavor? Equipment is just a bunch of raw statistics, nothing to make them stand out. Again, they serve their purpose, and there is enough loot lying around to never need to visit a shop – and still get some very good equipment from those. Overall, while the character building is functional and the combat skills are well designed, the inventory lack of flavor and the non-existent non-combat skills make the character feel less like a character and more like a set of skill combos.

Companion Characterization and Customization
It is done the wrong way. In order to give each companion an unique feel, the player's options to tinker with them have been cut with no compensation for these changes. Characterization has to come from additions and trade-offs, not from restrictions. To show an example of characterization done well, allow me to go down the nostalgia road and bring up one of the most beloved Bioware companions: Minsc. Minsc is a man of the wilds, a barbarian. However, when Baldur's Gate came out, there was no such class in the D&D rulebook. So they took the next best thing (a Ranger), and gave to him an additional Berserk skill. In addition, to further cement his quirky nature, they traded the regular animal companion of a Ranger for Boo, a quick slot item that increased Minsc's damage output. By a single addition and a trade-off, Minsc became this unique, beloved character. This is the proper way to characterize companions: Additions and trade-offs. This way, the companions are given their own flair, their own personality, without getting in the way of gameplay. It allows the player to build the party based not on class-skill combinations, but rather, by choice of companions. It allows a greater enjoyment of the game.
Redundancy and overlapping within companions is a good thing, as it allows a higher party composition variety. Specially considering the emphasis on teamwork, having the team variety in options limited hurts party building possibilities. You're pretty much forced to pick an specific companion or do it yourself if you want a certain role in the party covered. Not that there shouldn't be specialists, but rather than a specialist shouldn't be the only one to perform his specialization task: being the best at something shouldn't mean being the only option to do said thing.
However, neither of those things are present in DA 2 companions: Their character sheet is even more restricted than Hawke’s, with less personalization options, and they have random skill trees missing. Even if it could be justified for the mundane characters (as weapon specialists), Magi characters being barred a spell school for no good reason simply does not make sense.
The limitations in customization and specialization placed around the characters are arbitrary restrictions that serve no true gameplay purpose, and limit the player’s creativity for no apparent reason. You might say it’s to properly characterize the companions, but as I explained earlier, I do not consider it a valid reason, when said characterization can be done in a much more engaging and creative way.

“The family angle”

*SPOILERS*

Apparently, in creator lingo, “exploring the family angle” equals “setting up a source of cheap, easy emotional punches for the player”. And the worst part is that it fails at it. The first family member we mmet that will be killed is killed in the prologue, before the player has had a chance to actually connect with the characters. And the way the characters act reinforces the feeling that the death was superficial and meaningless, there only for a perceived shock value: even the gameplay bit immediately after the scene destroys any semblance of impact the death could have (more on that later). There’s a similar scene at the act 1 finale, that only triggers if certain conditions are met, that has a much more meaningful impact in the player. By that point, the player has had time to become familiar with said character: we’re not being asked to care five minutes into the game, but after six hours of meeting and interacting with the character: the scene actually has weight because the player has been allowed to build a connection.
Then there comes another act 2 quest that tries to capitalize on this but fails. Mostly because at its resolution, the player is struck with the following thought “I’m talking to the magically animated disembodied head of my mother grafted to a rag built body”; which completely destroys any meaningful impact the scene might have had.

*END SPOILERS*

Gameplay and Storyline segregation
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most glaring, crippling, off-putting, recurring failure in the game. At every turn, the story the dialogue and codex tells, and the story the world and gameplay tells, are completely unrelated.
The dialogue tells that Kirkwall is overcrowded with refugees, and even before, it was already a bustling community. What we travel around is an almost deserted city with a scarce population that look more like cardboard cuts than actual people.
The dialogues with Bethany and the codex reflect a heavy Templar presence, and her fear that using her powers would result in her capture. The gameplay has us casting spells openly all around Kirkwall, several times in front of Templars, and they wouldn’t bat an eyelash.
The codex and dialogues reveal that Blood Magic is a risky affair, and that the power it grants ends corrupting the user beyond redemption; it also tells us that said forbidden lore can only be learnt by dealing with demons or cooperating with other corrupted mages. Gameplay has us spend a talent point and never throws the consequences at the player.
The slides and dialogue tell years pass between acts, yet no character changes looks, no merchants open new business, every city NPC (all three of them) remain exactly at the same place, leaving the whole city in stasis for the duration of the game.
I could go on, but I think I made this point clear: the lore and the gameplay tell two different, completely unrelated, and usually conflicting stories, and the player is at a loss of which one he’s supposed to follow, destroying any attempt at immersion.

The Story
I salute the effort in trying to show a different plot than “Hero saves the day”. I really enjoyed the fact that Hawke is not a hero, but a war profiteer that uses every chance he/she gets to turn the situation to his/her advantage. However, the former point –gameplay and story segregation – dilutes a lot of the impact the story would have, as the two conflicting stories we’re being told muddy the three vignettes about Hawke’s life changing events (his reclaim of his noblehood, his ascension to champion, and his involvement in the first battle of the mage revolution). The conflicting lore and gameplay do a disservice to the events in Hawke’s life we’re supposed to be caring about.

The Paraphrase Wheel
First things first, the way the paraphrase wheel mechanic works in Dragon Age 2 is an improvement over former Bioware examples (read: Mass Effect) and less of a headache. Then again, bashing your head against a wall until you hear a wet snap is also less of a headache than Mass Effect wheel; but you take your victories where you can.
The inclusion of the tone icons is there to help the character understand better the meaning of the paraphrases. However, they only clarify intent, not content. We’re still doing guesswork rather than choices, as we still don’t know what will be said, only how. This difference between intent and content needs to be pointed out: Choosing a dialogue option should be based on content, not intent, as choices are only meaningful when we know WHAT our character will say, rather than HOW. Being surprised by our own character is the fastest way to destroy the enjoyment of the game.
As a matter of fact, when we need the clarification the icons should bring the most is when they fail: choices. When we’re asked to take a position, the icons do absolutely nothing to help us know what each choice will actually mean: we’re left again at the mercy of incomplete paraphrases that do not carry enough information for us to know if the paraphrase we’re choosing is actually the stance our character would take. Simply put, paraphrases fail as a method of conveying information to the player, and due to their strict character limitations they can never convey enough information to allow the player to make informed choices; the best thing they can offer is educated guesses. And that is simply not good enough.
This huge, glaring defect is apparently offset by the voice over benefits. Due to my specific situation (I play the game in Spanish, an idiom the game is subbed but not dubbed to), I must endure all the drawbacks a voiced character comes with without enjoying any of the alleged benefits. I’m sure those benefits are there: I’m having a hard time figuring out how they can offset the glaring drawback of removing character control from the player in a RPG.
Now, I understand the reason behind the paraphrases: apparently subvocalization was a big enough problem in the focus test groups that there was the need to *force* the players to listen to the voice over by removing the subtitles and putting paraphrases instead of full lines. After several conversations with a fellow forumite (Upsettingshorts), and excellent fellow who actually experiences the subvocalization issue, we came up with a solution of compromise that would allow the paraphrases to remain while allowing people who want to know the exact content of the line to do so as well: Holdover over a paraphrase option for a few seconds would cause the subtitle associated with the full line to show up in the subtitle section. This allows both parties to be satisfied, as those with subvocalization problems can consider the paraphrase alone while those who want to know the full content of the line can simply wait a bit to learn its content.

Overall conclusion
It’s a pity. A better execution of the game, a better intertwining of gameplay and story, a more polished character and companion development, a more worked out combat system and encounter design would have made the game much better than the product we have in our hands, which feels unfinished. We can glimpse the game it wanted to be, it was supposed to be, around the cracks, and it is a much more engaging experience than the game that came out. The flashes of brilliance, specially the new story angle, are muted by all the gaping flaws in the product.


And I can’t even play as a Dorf.



Brilliant review. I hope a lot of people read it.

#825
sgreco1970

sgreco1970
  • Members
  • 86 messages

tomorrowstation wrote...

be Realistic wrote...

i just signed up like 3 hours ago...
this is the only forum i have ever wrote on besides WoW
thats how bad this game was
the truth needed to be told


kotor 1 & 2
ME 1 & 2
Dragon age Origins and DA 2

played and beat em all


As long as your "truth" applies to you and you alone, rock on, my man. And welcome to the forums.


well it can apply to me as well. I'll rock on that this is the worst bioware title Ive ever played and I will not be pre-ordering again until I see the quality return -if it returns.