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[lv12medic]

For PC version of DA2:

The good things in DA2:

• Overall intersting characters and good dialog
• Icons on the paraphrase wheel
• Combat is faster and more reactive
• Some interesting quests

The bad things in DA2:

• Reused areas that didn't make sense story wise
• Bland item icons
• Loss of Isometric Camera
• Lack of information for choices on paraphrase wheel
• Constant wave based encounters
• Random found an item, return to someone you never met quests

The quirky things in DA2:

• Combat targeting and AoE lock on
• Some quests bugged out

(Probably a few things I'm missing from each list but oh well)

My overally thoughts:  The game overall was decent in terms of overall gameplay, story, characters, visuals, sound effects and music.  However I believe the biggest hardship for trying to say what is good or is not good in DA2 comes down to what I am guessing was a very hectic development timeline.  All throughout the game, the disparity in what was considered important and not important to the development is very large.  I have a decent understanding of buisness environments and how scheduling has to work, resource allocation has to be considered, and the ever battle between add something here, take away from there problem of devolping a product.  I believe the harshest lesson in DA2 is not on its overall quality, but the disparity in quality from what was important to the development team and what wasn't.

I suppose a good term for it would be a lack of polish, though buffing would probably be the more accurate term.  The whole time playing DA2 I saw where people put a lot of blood, sweat, tears and long hours at work into the game.  And then you see things that were there almost just to be there.

[sphinxess]

The quest "Night Terrors". If it was written to show the power of a Dreamer Mage <all companions but Anders can be turned> why is Hawke immune? I just don't find quests that have the game mechanic C will turn unless B is present. If B is present B will turn unless A is present, etc to be all that effective in a RPG. Yes I am looking at it from a meta-game prespective but in many thread arguments about companions the quest keeps coming up as an example of the companions lack of loyalty. It doesnt matter if Hawke has 100% rivalry or loyalty Isabela for example will always go with the Desire Demon.

This has been bugging me enough I decided to add it to my game review in this thread.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

sphinxess wrote...

The quest "Night Terrors". If it was written to show the power of a Dreamer Mage <all companions but Anders can be turned> why is Hawke immune? I just don't find quests that have the game mechanic C will turn unless B is present. If B is present B will turn unless A is present, etc to be all that effective in a RPG. Yes I am looking at it from a meta-game prespective but in many thread arguments about companions the quest keeps coming up as an example of the companions lack of loyalty. It doesnt matter if Hawke has 100% rivalry or loyalty Isabela for example will always go with the Desire Demon.

This has been bugging me enough I decided to add it to my game review in this thread.

Hawke isn't immune. If you ever sided with Torpor, then you just dealt with a demon. The option is there to fall prey, but the PC can choose not to.

[Blessed Silence]

Added these two three to my post few pages back so if you didn't read:

8. MAJOR nitpik: What is up with weapons and shields disappearing and reappearing constantly in a cutscene?? I'm wearing my staff one second, then next poofs off, then back again. VERY jarring. Mainly happens during companion cutscene dialog.

9. MAJOR continuity: When helping Keran from those mages, he asked not to speak about it to the Templars, and even Anders said to downplay it. So I go to Cullen, and what is the FIRST THING my Hawke says? You guessed it ... blood magic. I had NO CHOICE in the matter, the nitwit blurted it out. Guys if you ask us not to say it PLEASE give us the choice!!

10. Nitpick:  Kind of an immersion breaker when I'm having a no holds battle with someone as NPCs are casually WALKING through my battle!  Seriously .. even in Oblivion they got the heck outta there when poo starts to hit the fan.  I don't remember if DA2 was supposed to be a world with dynamic NPCs but if so, this might wanna get looked at.  Or every NPC in the Docks has charred hair and arrows in them.

Modifié par Blessed Silence, 03 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .

[Argamor]

Bioware, you guys have made some epic games, but DA2 was not one of them.

The things I liked about DA2:

1 Battles seemed more intense over Origins.

2 Flemeth was awesome. Her redesign was fantastic as was her dialogue. Epic.

3 The Mass Effect style dialogue wheel was definitely a great addition. Made me seem more involved.

4 Hawke himself was very interesting. The dialogue options were great. I especially loved the sarcastic responses.

5 The ending of the game was awesome. This is how epic the entire game should have been.

6 The graphics were a huge improvement. Great job.

7 The narration of the story by Varric was cool.

The things I don't like about DA2:

1 I was very happy with Origins because it was like an old fashioned RPG with some very cool enhancements. DA2 lacks an RPG feel.

2 The weapon choices were, well, crap. Most of the swords looked like some crappy junk pulled out of a junk heap and the designs sucked when compared with the Origins and Awakening weapons. Also, I like sword and shield game-play in fantasy type games. That's just my style. In DA2, this type of fighting is weak. The only way to mow down enemies is with a great sword. I realize great swords will cause more damage because of their size, but with the sword and shield style, I felt like I was hitting enemies with a dull blade.

3 Armor. There was a serious lack of armor in this game and of the few sets that there were, most looked horrible. The armor in Origins and Awakening was downright awesome. Not so much in DA2. The companion armor options also sucked. Just like in ME2, it is not possible to change up the armor sets. Lame. It's an RPG. I want to be able to do this.

4 The "world" was nothing of the sort. I just kept running around, doing pretty much the same stuff the whole game. Kirkwall was VERY boring. I kept wondering when I was going to be able to leave, and it NEVER HAPPENED. I was very disappointed. In the scope of ten years, one would think that there would be a lot of cool places to explore and visit. Hawke apparently isn't one for travel. Very lame.

5 The story. What story? Awakening, which was an expansion, was MUCH better at storytelling than DA2. DA2 seemed more like a game of never ceasing side quests. The ending was the only good part. Also, I really could care less about the Chantry and mage situation after ending the Blight in Origins and then stopping the Darkspawn in Awakening. These were of far more importance than the bickering of some foolish priests, the Templars, and the mages. Also, the whole qunari thing, I was just lost. I couldn't figure out what that had to do with the story as a whole, and it doesn't matter if you give them their object or not, you still have to fight them.

6 Companion characters. To be frank, the ONLY companion I liked, was Varric. There was nothing compelling about the companions at all. Isabella annoyed me to no end by stealing things for no reason that I could fathom, and ended up starting a war, and if you want her to surrender the object, she does so but leaves forever even though she was the one in the wrong, Anders just whined the entire game, Aveline was so boring that I never added her to the party after she became a guard, Bethany was all right but she left for a huge chunk of the game, leaving me without a decently leveled mage, Fenris was so interesting that after I obtained him as a companion, I never talked to him again until the very end, and Merill was overly creepy because of her obsession over the mirror and blood magic. The back stories were also lacking in depth and interest.

7 The romance options. I did not like ANY of the romance options in DA2. I miss Leliana. She had depth to her, made me care about her, and was very sweet and charming. I also loved the French accent.

8 Hawke's mother. I felt like I should have been able to save her if I wanted. I felt like all the time I invested in trying to track down that murderer was a complete waste of time because I saved no one.

9 The abilities and skills and such were not very well done. Origins had an awesome setup. One that was easy to use and understand, and could make your entire party a powerhouse. In DA2, this is not the case. The talent trees are laid out poorly, have weak abilities (unless your a two-handed weapon Hawke), and are confusing as to what effect they actually have on the enemy.

10 The time frame. In Origins, it felt like weeks and weeks had transpired because of the time it took to complete the game. In DA2, the timeline is ten YEARS and it feels like a very small amount of time has elapsed because of how short the game is. This was very disappointing.

Please make DA3 much more like Origins in its scope and storytelling. I know you guys can do it. I've played KOTOR, Jade Empire, ME1, ME2, DA:O, and DA:A, all MULTIPLE times, so I know you guys can do it.

[Gillborn]

I may sound repetitive and tiring so excuse me about that.I feel that comparing DA2 to DAO is natural cause we are talking about the successor of a great game.But i could never enjoy it as much as Origins.Story,combat,choises,companions,.......Every time i start playing DAO i always get sucked into it immediately.But that never happened with DA2.

Story:Some may say that saving the world from Evil is a cliche story.Cliche is also a poor refugee becoming well..someone.I could say the same about the mage/templar conflict.Since the ascension of the Chantry templars always saw the mages as abominations and mages never wanted to be imprissoned by the templars.But in Origins you could shape the world with your choises.You could crown a king or overthrow one.In DA2 you are forced to follow the story not shape it according to your choises.Nothing changes,nothing evolves.Main plot is divided in 3 parts with huge gaps between each other.At the beginning u get to gather money to join an expedition but for what reason?You just wander aimlesly in Kirkwall and doing errands to gather money.And u never get to know Kirkwall,a city with a trivial past(slaves,blood magic,thick vail).In second part u get involved with the Qunari.You are doing whatever possible to keep them ''under control'' but in the end they always attack the city(for what reason though?About no order in Kirkwall,about their tome.I mean they stayed iddle for 5-6 years).And you are supposed to save it?Where are the guards,the mages,the templars?Felt forced again to be the champion.And last act...well it finished before it even started.Overall i never got to feel the involvement of Hawke in the story.

Combat:Too fast and TOO flashy for me.If i wanted an action/adventure/rpg i would get one.Combat in DAO seemed closer to real.Yes two handed swords are heavy to swing and rogues are supposed to strike behind the enemies back not doing some acrobatic tricks to hit.Same as mages.They twisted and twisted.........Sometimes i would get to wait for my mage to use a spell because he had not finished his basic attack.Tactis in combat.At times i had to search for my companions.They were being chased and that made it impossible to work as a team.Ok i use taunt but wait the enemies are splitted cause they are chasing my companions.And not only that u clear the first wave and some paratroopers fall from the roofs and my companions are immediately being surrounded attacked and alone:(

Companions/Interaction/NPC:In DAO i could talk to them and interact with them.But more importantly they had personalities they had values and a purpose.Example:Wynne had a grandmotherly figure always willing to hear you and offer an advice.Allistair was funny and carefree but had a strong sense of purpose when it came to darkspawn threat.And through the Wardens interaction they would involve.Like Morrigan if u romance her.And getting to know them made me understand them and willing to help with their personnal requests.But in DA2 i never get to bond with them.Felt like they were following me blindly because they had spare time i dont know.And they seem to interact more with each other than with me.Never get to talk to them,know their past,sympathize with them.Example:i cant change Varric's weapon(though i like Bianca) but let him tell me how he got her.Why that name.Merril and the Eluvian.OMG we will never get an explanation what they are and do?Romance well lets say only Isabella was interesting but as time passed by i felt i was falling for a moving Blooming rose.She knows half of Thedas cause she has slept with it.Finally no interaction with the npc's.Why cant i talk to them and get info,directions etc.I can only talk to guest-givers and only get the must know of a mission.

Character Customization:Only for Hawke and there was limited choise(Really why cant i change the armour of my companions??????).At some time i had 6 superior daggers 10 ornate belts all junk(again..really what was their purpose.whats  ''junk''??)Skill trees were ok but...why do i have to spend 4 points in a tree just to get one upgrade for a skill i want to use.The other 3 are useless.But i found good the upgrade faction and the cross-class combos.And nice idea having personall trees on each companion but again somehow limited choise.Why cant they have specializations?Last why cant i choose my race?Is voiced character so much important than fully character customization?Its supposed to be an RPG(Role playing game).

Graphic/Sound:Graphic improvement is only natural due to technology advancing but we are supposed to have a dark fantasy game and DA2 was nowhere near it.Some figures were like cartoons.Allistair and Zevran were........Darkspawn also.And Qunari were not as threatening as Sten was in Origins.Sound is good not memorable.

Finally why add wheel for Hawke and whats with neutral/sarcastic etc choises.Moral choises were very good and had impact not make my character funny,or neutral or whatever.And ok the wheel was there why faces??Why does the game have to guide me in everything.And bring back the old codex.

Closing i want to believe that DA3 will have a big unique world(no area re-use pls).And have that dark atmospere as it should cause we are about so see some great events.I want to feel i am part of the world not some guy who happened to be there.I want my choises to have an impact.So please take your time and give us a great game as you have done over the years.

[Psycho Warden]

I have it for the PS3.

Pros:
Graphics - There is an obvious visual improvement from Origins, the game looks amazing.

Story - It's not on an epic 'save the world' scale like Origins but I found myself interested in the storyline. I simply love the DA lore. I hope you explore the Qun more in the next game.

Companions - I think all of them are well written and so is the party banter. I would change my party line up just to listen to them interact on my first playthrough.

Speed - I didn't like the new battle system because I had to constantly mash X to attack. It felt like a button masher but the faster battle animations are an improvement in my opinion. Now I find a auto attack option in the game. I don't know if this was a patch or if I didn't see it but it made it more enjoyable. Not becase I'm lazy but I micro manage and that's a but difficult when you're mashing X all the time.

Gameplay - Mages and Rogues are much more enjoyable to play now. Warriors are faster now too but I don't really like playing as them. In RPGs I'm always a mage first, then I play as the other classes in my 2nd+ playthrough.

Importing - I actually got replayed DA:O for this. I had it for the 360.


Cons:
Reused maps - I would understand if you guys didn't have the budget to make a unique map for every single quest but a bit of variety in these copy/paste maps would be great.

Companion armor - I can't change it, I can upgrade it and add runs but I'd like to equip them with some badass five star armor and I can't.

Map - The game had no world map, it was limited to a single city and it's forest.

Origins - It would have been nice to play as Hawke before he was fleeing the Darkspawn, my sibling dies and I feel no connection to the event. I do not care because I don't know him. Being my brother five minutes in is not enough. In Origins you get a brief intro and see what your character's life was like before becoming the Warden.

Maleficar Hawke - No one notices my Blood Magic, no one. I used Blood Magic in front of and against Templars and not a single comment was made.

Darkspawn - Why change what isn't broken? Darkspawn in DA:O were perfect but I hated them in DA 2.


Overall I found this game enjoyable but it seemed more like an expansion/build up to Dragon Age 3.
That being said I'm looking forward to this games DLC.

Modifié par Psycho Warden, 09 juillet 2011 - 04:08 .

[Grishnaz]

Most of it has of course been said but a contribution doesn't hurt if it helps make the next one better.

The combat was great, perhaps too fast and lack of execution animations was a tad dissapointing. Fights were interesting except the constant use of waves which is really annoying, you can tactically use your abilities then poof, 20 guys just absailed from the roof and everything is on cd, great

Story and plot was good, but way too contrived and forced, decisions barely effected the overall game which is a huge negative point of da2.

Characters were really good and interesting, but we couldn't really influence them as that would effect the set in stone plot.

The lack of areas was the worst thing about the game for me, staying in that drab stone city the entire game revisiting the same areas over and over and over gets really dull. In origins we had so many different landscapes and interesting places.

DLC, same reason it makes every game out there worse.

[phoeinx420]

wooot

[Areksu]

Here is what I'm seeing is agreed almost unanimously upon so far from reading this:
1) Combat - The overall combat system is liked for the most part. The limited viewing angles can be a source of minor irritation when you are trying to target something just in front of a companion in corridor-like spaces or if paused when flashy explosions and effects are going off. Having most combat encounters consisting of waves of enemies jumping out of nowhere is a source of discontentment. Mage is favored slightly more than rogue or warrior due to having a greater variety of offensive abilities to build a character from.
2) Aesthetics: Copy-paste dungeons draw the most ire in this category. Some locations don't even make sense (almost every cave in the game is a mineshaft). The Mass Effect-like decision wheel is a nice aesthetic change to the standard list interface for dialogue options. Armor and weapons have enough visual variety to satisfy.
3) Storyline and Story Elements: Too many fluff quests with no storyline impact. The main story renders Hawke mostly impotent in effecting the events of the story outside cosmetic differences. The main story sometimes roleplay's Hawke for you instead of letting you do what you'd like to do (Sister Patrice gets to walk away after sending you on a suicide mission, no counter response to Meredith using Hawke's mother as an excuse for her actions, etc). Character dialogue is satisfying, although some dialogue options need more clarification. The companion characters are interesting and well fleshed out.

At least that's what I'm getting from the majority of the reviews.

Modifié par Areksu, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:06 .

[massmp]

Dragon Age II (What was positive?)

- Graphic (the absolute positive thing in Dragon Age II)

- Faster Combat (more responsive)

- Voice Acting (Every voice actor did a great job. Everyone should get a award, especially Eve Myles as Merrill)

- New Setting

What was negative?

- Choices had not a great impact on the game. There were many RPG Features, but did not had a great impact.

- Setting (It´s good that you picked up a new setting, but you were the entire game mostly in Kirkwall.)

- Save Import from DA: O did not had a great impact on Dragon Age II.

- The Warden (DA:O) should have appeared a least one more time. To give players from DA:O a kind of nostalgic feeling.

Wishes for the next title.:

- To play as the Warden again (If not, let him appear at least one more time). Because for me, The Warden is also an important character in the Dragon Age franchise. In Dragon Age II he was only mentioned a few times.

- More places to explore. Not only in one city, but in others too.

- more romance options (also with none-companions)

- more RPG (with greater impact)

- to customize the armor of other companions. Basically, that you can change their armor again like in DA:O.

- more emotional scenes

[ApostleinTriumph]

Areksu wrote...

Here is what I'm seeing is agreed almost unanimously upon so far from reading this:
1) Combat - The overall combat system is liked for the most part. The limited viewing angles can be a source of minor irritation when you are trying to target something just in front of a companion in corridor-like spaces or if paused when flashy explosions and effects are going off. Having most combat encounters consisting of waves of enemies jumping out of nowhere is a source of discontentment. Mage is favored slightly more than rogue or warrior due to having a greater variety of offensive abilities to build a character from.
2) Aesthetics: Copy-paste dungeons draw the most ire in this category. Some locations don't even make sense (almost every cave in the game is a mineshaft). The Mass Effect-like decision wheel is a nice aesthetic change to the standard list interface for dialogue options. Armor and weapons have enough visual variety to satisfy.
3) Storyline and Story Elements: Too many fluff quests with no storyline impact. The main story renders Hawke mostly impotent in effecting the events of the story outside cosmetic differences. The main story sometimes roleplay's Hawke for you instead of letting you do what you'd like to do (Sister Patrice gets to walk away after sending you on a suicide mission, no counter response to Meredith using Hawke's mother as an excuse for her actions, etc). Character dialogue is satisfying, although some dialogue options need more clarification. The companion characters are interesting and well fleshed out.

At least that's what I'm getting from the majority of the reviews.

Don't forget about the bland user inferface....compared to Origins it looks so terrible and unimaginative.

Also, it feels like as a whole a big reason for the game's problems can be explained as "lack of details". Everything from weapon descriptions to gifts you could find, armor sets, environments, ability icons, interesting side quests that mattered, DA:O is a game full of subtle details that make you marvel at the work. DA2 feels so empty compared to it. Ability icons look like things drawn on a piece of napkin over a lunch conversation. Menus and interface feels consolized and devoid of any meaning. Side quests are 90% of time so boring that you just want to spam the abilities, loot the thing, and get the hell out of there. Even being "Champion" means nothing. We are Champion now, because eh...we fought the Qunari? Really? Being a Grey Warden was epic, it was more than a boring title.

Modifié par ApostleinTriumph, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:11 .

[saMoorai]

I rather liked DA2. I thought it was a great game, it could have been better, but for what it was, i liked it.
Hawke was a Much better Character then the Warden, i actually cared for Hawke. He felt he was my character. I cared for him as i could relate to him. We had a similar personality, while The warden didn't really have one. I could relate to my Hawke's goals of looking out for his family and friends.  The Warden's goals of stopping the blight were good, but Prefer Hawke's, as again, its much more relatable.

The Companions were also better as it felt like i was their friend rather then leader, with the warden, it felt like they were just a bunch of people i recruited while with Hawke it felt like they were a bunch of people i befriended. Swapping tales with Varric, Warning Merrill about Blood magic and convincing her to just live a happy life with me, Getting Aveline married, And Getting aveline to come back with the tome all felt special. Helping Sten find his sword and Killing Flemth was nice and all but i just didn't feel as special.

The story itself was much better, While saving the world is nice and all, i see that in every game. DA2's story reminded me of GTA4, You're not trying to do anything special, you're just trying to survive and make life better for your family.  I wasn't someone special like the warden was 20 minutes into the game, but i liked it because i had to earn my way into being someone special.

The gameplay was fun and addictive, killing dozens of enemies with one arrow made me feel badass.

The recycled area's and lack of companion armor i didn't like however, aswell as the lack of choices from both this game and origins making a big difference. for example, i sided with the Werewolves, i kinda expected to see some walking around Kirkwall or atleast something more then one small sidequest.


8.5/10
It's a Great game and i love it's story. But it could have used some more time on it to feel more finished.

[Revakeane]

One thing about the game that I really thought could be improved upon is the facial animation. For a game that claims to be 'Hot-rodding' its art and graphics, the wooden poker-faces of each and every character was very disappointing. Granted, some expressions are quite well done, but these were few and far between, and for the most part, every character had on an absolutely blank expression during each conversation.

I don't like to compare games, but I think ME and ME2 got their facial animation done pretty well... not perfect, but definitely better than DA and DA2. Each conversation should see a constant interplay of emotion and expression... if not it just feels fake.

[Toki]

 I personally love this game, but liking something doesn't necessarily make it good.

The story was my main issue. It was interesting, and I personally liked it, but I don't think it's a whole game worthy, maybe something like Awakening, a shorter  campaign not meant to be the whole game, an expansion, it'd be perfect. You're a refugee fleeing from the Blight to get to the Free Marches to live with your wealthy family. Not bad, I'm liking the general idea. You work for mercenaries [smugglers] for a year to pay your debts to live in the city of Kirkwall. 

I think that they should've had a whole long thing, a shorter act possibly, doing the mercenary [smuggler] work. I would think that it would've made the actual decision matter and have more fun working for either or. You basically prove you're capable, then see them later on in the game for one mission. I would've expected a very long ordeal doing mercenary [smuggler] work, which would make me a lot more interested in the whole situation of trying to stay in Kirkwall, being a refugee. I would've loved to feel like one, maybe have one of the missions depending on staying in Kirkwall, or something else, I'm not entirely sure, but make an actual story out of being a mercenary [smuggler] rather than do something on it and that alone.

Then, you're just doing side quests for money, to get into the Deep Roads. Interesting concept, but that was basically Act 1. You do little quests and recruit some people, and go into the Deep Roads. You go home, end of Act 1. I would've liiked for Act 1 to be expanded into more about just the Deep Roads, possibly make that more of a 50% complete of Act 1, build some more story onto it. 

Act 2, I loved it. Political matters, wartime matters, taking care of your party members, ect. It wasn't perfect, nothing is, but it seemed to be my favorite act. The tension between mages and templars was felt near the end, but it was more subtle. I was expecting more on it during this (but this was the right decision overall), because when I defeated the Arishok, I thought the game was over. It wasn't, and this act truly got me to love this game. There was hinting conflicts, during and after Act 2, and I liked the story with Isabella, making her seem more important , which is good for a party member. I like how some other characters did have a role as well, Aveline and Anders at the top of my head. I loved just about everything about the story with the Qunari and such, but your whole involvment is a bit odd, but that's what makes the game. 

Act 3, was also satisfied. I personally liked the entire story between mages and templars, the ongoing struggle rather than the intended friendly, orderly situation. I like your involvment with your brother and sister in this act (if you never brought them to the Deep Roads), but the main problem was that it left me wanting more. I thought it was over in Act 2, then seeing it continue I was both surprised and pleased. I wasn't very surprised with the ending, which is fine, it's the ending, but how you just leave. Now the whole mess is just there and the champion is gone. I dislike how there's only two ending, but I can't really think of any other main endings. Possibly have it like Origins where there's the main ending (slaying the Archdemon), but there's the queen/king situation, and who actually kills the Archdemon. Don't directly copy and be like "Fenris! Go kill Meredith!", but I was hoping that you guys would have thought of something similar. 

Overall, I enjoyed the experience, but the story wasn't that great considering that it focused on a random refugee's rise to power. No offense, but I didn't really give a damn. The Qunari and Mage/Templar story in themselves wasn't bad, but you're involvement, why you're even there still, and all of that stuff seemed irrevelant to Hawke, but it's the game.

The characters in this game, I absolutely loved. As you're escaping Lothering, you're with your old, loving mother, a sweet as honey sister, and a whiny brother. It's a family. One dies, the other either dies or leaves, and it becomes you and your mother, than just you. I remember when I was playing through, I was a sarcastic Hawke, sometimes being nice, but never mean. When I got to the mother part, I felt so attatched that I made him angry and the like. Just a quick example of how I personally felt emotionally attatched. You go through so much with your family, and there seems to be more development with Carver, I personally like Bethany better as you get to discover your family a bit more, and the DLC made this even better.


I can't say I personally liked Aveline that much, but she wasn't a bad character. As you're escaping you meet somebody else, good entrance I suppose, add more characters into it. Ironically, her husband was a templar, considering your sister (and possibly you) is a mage, and your brother will become one if left home for the Deep Roads Expedition. She had involvement with the story being part of the guard and using you for assistance with certain things such as patrols, or city matters such as the Qunari. I don't know who noticed, but Leliana actually talks about an Aveline as one of her stories.

Anders, coming back from Awakening. I haven't played it, but watched someone play it for a little bit, and I get the whole general idea with him and his returning. He's a bit funny, especially Ser-Pounce-Allot, and I really like his Justice story as well. I think he's a great character and happy to have him there. 

Fenris, my personal favorite party character. I absolutely love his backstory and I think it's just amazing. He fought for lyrium in his skin to assist his family into fleeing, but it made him forget his memories, who he was, and destroyed his whole life. His first memory was having it etched into his skin. He hates mages, he makes that perfectly clear, and I suppose he has justified reasons, he can get a tad annoying if you think mages shouldn't all just drop in a hole and die. I like his emotional and personal struggles with his personal quests and discovering him. I love how fleshed out he is. 

I will come back to this later, I must depart.

[ArcanistLibram]

It took me months of beating around the bush, but I've finally figured out how to properly articulate my major problem with Dragon Age 2: Hawke does nothing to drive the plot and push it forward.

I don't think Dragon Age Origins handled the war against the Blight very well, but at least the Wardens' actions drive the plot. They have a job to do and they go do it. They solve their problems. They make alliances. They make decisions. They matter. If nothing else, the Wardens all act like proper protagonists and once they're on the scene, everyone else gets caught up in the Wardens' plans.

Hawke doesn't do this. Hawke just gets caught up in what everyone else is doing. Getting the family estate back? Bethany/Carver come up with the idea of raiding it and mom's the one who negotiates with the viscount. The conflict with the Qunari? All because of Petrice and the Arishok. Hawke never does anything to prevent or escalate it until the Arishok decides to just burn the place down and forces Hawke to act. The conflict between the Mages and the Templars? Pretty much ignored for almost all of the game. Hawke never decides to help smuggle Mages out of Kirkwall or go Punisher on all the Blood Mages.

Hawke's a protagonist with absolutely zero initiative who only gets caught up in everyone else's plans and never does anything on his own.

[brigantine]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

It took me months of beating
around the bush, but I've finally figured out how to properly articulate
my major problem with Dragon Age 2: Hawke does nothing to drive the
plot and push it forward.

I don't think Dragon Age Origins
handled the war against the Blight very well, but at least the Wardens'
actions drive the plot. They have a job to do and they go do it. They
solve their problems. They make alliances. They make decisions. They
matter. If nothing else, the Wardens all act like proper protagonists
and once they're on the scene, everyone else gets caught up in the
Wardens' plans.

Hawke doesn't do this. Hawke just gets caught up
in what everyone else is doing. Getting the family estate back?
Bethany/Carver come up with the idea of raiding it and mom's the one who
negotiates with the viscount. The conflict with the Qunari? All because
of Petrice and the Arishok. Hawke never does anything to prevent or
escalate it until the Arishok decides to just burn the place down and
forces Hawke to act. The conflict between the Mages and the Templars?
Pretty much ignored for almost all of the game. Hawke never decides to
help smuggle Mages out of Kirkwall or go Punisher on all the Blood
Mages.

Hawke's a protagonist with absolutely zero initiative who
only gets caught up in everyone else's plans and never does anything on
his own.

Yes this was one of the main issues I had with the game. I loved the gameplay and the companions but it felt like Bioware had a single place this game was going and no matter what choices Hawke made that was it. You were fighting the same two end bosses no matter if you sided with one of them or not!

Modifié par brigantine, 30 juillet 2011 - 01:01 .

[KyleOrdrum]

After repeatedly trying to figure out what felt wrong with the game, I think I was finally able to put my finger on it. The game is repeatedly being assaulted for not being reactive like origins, despite origins not truly being a reactive game. The difference is, in origins we saw multiple levels of reactivity, whereas in DA2 we only seem to see one.

In origins we saw the game react to our choices by NPC's dieing and being replaced by other, notably different NPC's. We saw the army we had assembled against the arch-demon, and felt differences in how these armies operated. We saw characters from quests change depending on how we affected them, and we saw reflections of our origin in how the world reacted to us. Lastly of course we saw the endgame cuecards.

In DA2 we saw...midgame cuecards. Generally speaking the characters we met in sidequests weren't seen again unless they were companions. The exception to this being a few blood mages who did whatever the story dictated, regardless of our interaction. At the end of the game, we had to fight both enemies no matter which side we chose, and no matter what you do, the ending is practically the same.

I'm not jumping on the "hate hawke" bandwagon, because I honestly liked the character, despite the character creator now being unnecessary due to the voiced protagonist always feeling like the same char (or same two if you jumped genders). What I'm saying is that while in essence, the game may have not truly been less reactive than origins, the implimentation made it feel less reactive. This simply came as a bit of a kick in the teeth after months of you guys telling us how reactive it would be.

[aries1001]

OK, I'm now a little more into this game, I've played DA2 for about 22 hours now. And I simply don't understand why people give this game a 0, a 1 or even a 4 or 5, or even 6 or 7 out of 10... After 22 hours I'm still in chapter 1...

Yes, there are some problems with the combat (fixed a lot after patch 1.3), wave combat in particular; some enemies have a ridiculous amount of healt, it seems. Other than that I'm enjoying the game, the game interface is modern, easy to navigate, and best of all, no more backtracking after finishing a quest deep in some abandoned ruins. Speaking of the abandoned ruins, very well done quest with some really hard and tough choices. If you look at the dialogue, it isn't always clear what the best outcome is - the wheel that forms the dialogue are easy to navigate, the icons help decide the tone, although not exactly what is said. However, I find that the general gist and idea are still present in the lines that Hawke speaks. The characters, the dialogue, even the story, in both sidequests and mainquest etc. are well-written, well-fleshed out, original and yes, even somewhat unique. The voiceacting is, as always, excellent.

I don't get the 'hate' for this game, nor why people say it lacks exploration. So far, Sundermount Mountain has had 3-4 quests besides the main quest (met Merril here...and wow...what a character...), Kirkwall is as big as the city Baldur's Gate in the Baldur's Gate games; there are people standing about locked in one place, yes, but they did so in all of Bioware's other games as well. There are day and night version of the city, which is nice, I find; certain quest only happen at night while other quests only happen at day.
I like this...

Combat-related, I have to say that the only critique so far I have is a) the wave combat and my characters sometimes run away from the combat attacking thin air or imaginary enemies or monsters. Not fun.... (or maybe it is a sign of my 8 year old computer specs?) Not combat related directly, but I would like to make it so that we can give our followers their own gloves or boots or helms. It could just be that mages or rogues couldn't wear helms at all, but warriors could. However, I'm fine with the way things are now e.g. that we can give our followers amulets, belts, rings and weapons.

Right now, as I've said in another thread, I'll give the combat a 7,5, the story, character, a 9,5 and and the gameplay 8.5-9.0, probably more closer to 9.0 now...

[C Trayne]

personally i dont see where all the hate is coming from i guess its just differing opinions
anywho... i loved the game and pretty much everything about it
-the combat was greatly improved upon and much more fast paced than the previous game
-i found the story very enjoyable, a lot going on and while very different from the first i'm hoping it leads to an exciting sequal with another war on the rise now
-Everyone seems to hate on hawkes character while i really liked him, the different ways he would react and the many different dialogue options just made it seem a lot more fun
-the companion involvement could have been a bit better, at least with the LI who aside from a few choice encounters you really didn't get much interaction with
-and while it did primarily take place in a few main areas i liked this, simplified things and made what needed to be done very clear... that being said they should have made the dungeons, caverns and warehouses, etc different... i in many occasions that i had entered a place i had already visited because it was exactly the same...

overall i give the game an 8.5/10 only losing points on companion involvement, reused areas, and only 3 classes... i think that the archery rogue and dw rogue should be different classes so u can make each one a bit better

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Overall, I'd give the game about 6.5. I'll start with the positives and things I felt were great improvements before I get into the nerd rage.

Positives:

1. The speed and flow of character and companion combat. It no longer takes forever for a warrior or rogue to execute a talent or spell like it did in DAO.
2. The management of sustainable modes. The way that the visuals and all disappear whenever you are not in active combat, even though the mode is still active. This is a vast improvement on so many fronts. Screenshots are easier, lag is drastically reduced, and game crashes are far fewer because of this.
3. Body and underwear models. 500% improvement from DAO on this front. They look great, and women actually look and walk like females. Not like they have a corn cob up their ass and are trying to imitate John Wayne.
4. Armor models. Especially for mage robes and hoods, but also heavy armor models look 500% better than they did in origins. Less clunky shoulder plates of doom on the heavy models. Chantry robes are also much cooler in DA2.
5. Friend/Rival system. I loved this. It certainly needs some fine tuning and adjustment, but over all, I love this system. Please keep it. It allows for a greater variety of companion relationship dynamics and such, and allows even companions one doesn't get along with to still play an important part in the story.
6. Abilities upgrade. Nice. very good idea.
7. Companions having their own lives, relationships, homes, and interactions with one another. they have a life and dimension outside the PC. This is a wonderful development, as I love seeing interparty relationships and interactions. It makes everyone for multidimensional and interesting.
8. The many mentions of my Warden and DAO events. I actually found discussion of my Warden or DAO events to be more interesting than much of Hawke's exploits.


And Now, the negatives. Sigh.

1. Voiced PC. Get rid of it, and the stupid dialogue wheel. I hate both. A voiced PC took up a ton of =game resources, resources that would have been better spent in a multitude of other ways. Hawke's voice didn't bother me, but Iwould have prefered a silent character. 
2. In relation to 1, the dialogue wheel. Not only the paraphrasing got on ym nerves, but the wheel itself was so lame. I hated in it ME, and I still hate it. It severely limits alot of role playing aspects and oppportunity, as well as limits overall choice.
3. Plot and story. Where did it go? I spend half the game wondering what the hell I was doing and why, and trying to figure out if there was any point to it all. There was little coherence or sense in alot of the story, it did not connect well at all.  The story was very poorly executed.
4. Wave combat. Sorry Bioware, it is not challenging or "awesome", it is terribly annoying and tedious, and quite ridiculous from a story point of view as well. Not to mention how stupid it looks for templars to double as backflipping ninjas. Such opver the top idocy belongs in manga and JRPGs, neither of which I like or care for.
5. Lack of choices and changes that matter. Can't even begin to go into how many missed opportunities there were. Why even give the illusion of choice where it doesn't exist? Hardly anything changed as a result of my choices, at least in any real way that matters.
6. Where did skills go? Rogues can't pick pocket? Mages can't craft their own salves? And why are there no traps available for me to set? Is this "streamlining"? Well, it's a crock of shyte, whatever you want to call it. Bring back skills, including persuasion and such.
7. Gameplay mechanics and story/plot being completely on different planets. Mages flinging blood magic and spells willy nilly, and barely a mention. And the specializations. You just pick them. No plot realted quests to open them up, or learn them from companions. There's no context, no immersion in leveling up, you just randomly pump points here and there. And it doesn't matter for specializations like blood magic, which should have everyone crapping their pants.
8. Retcons and lore inconsistancies/oddities. You know, continuity works wonders for immersion and game enjoyment.
9. backstory. The game opens up with hawke running from darkspawn. Epic stupid. Why did the game not start with an "origin story" for Hawke, giving us a basic feel for them, their family, and life in Lothering. That is something that made DAO epic. In each origin story, though brief, I had a full idea of the character and their relationship to their family or peers, what sort of life or views this character might develop, ect. I was more attached to the Couslands than I was the Hawkes, despite only having a brief period and limited interaction with them Yet my siblings and mother in DA2, I know for the whole game, yet feel little connection to.
10. Mac Guffins. Seriously. WTF? Harvestino? Meredith possesed by Red Lyrium Soul Caluibre? really. That sort of OTT garbage might fly in a JRPG. But in Dragon Age, it was so stupid I gave myself a headache from repeat facepalms. I'm 37 years old. Not 12. Twelve year olds might think it "awesome". I, however, do not, and I am not alone in this. It completely robs the human agency of the story, and makes it another lackluster tale of evil pwoers running amok for no reason.
11. Bugs. I would seriously suggest an overhaul on your QC department. Many of these bugs are pretty unforgivable, as they should have been caught in the beta mode, because they are obvious and unavoidable.
12. Random psychic fetch quests.
13. Bland items, bland world. I remember when in DAO, you could examine the descriptions of even the most mundane of items, as well as plot/quest items. I mouse over my inventory of DA2, and nothing. No plot items, no examination. The inventory system of DA2 sucks beyond belief. And the codexes do not make up for this, either.
14. Hawke. Poorly written protagonist. Canned characters don't do much for me, Hawke even less so. I didn't expect Hawke to change the world, or even be a hero. But I did expect to be able to play a character that showed some intelligence or depth, which was not really possible with Hawke.
15. Face and character creation. I do not like the new aesthetics at all for face morphs. Everyone looks unusuallt squishy and "soft". Don't even get me started on what they did to elf faces. Lol. I want whatever drugs are being passed around in the development department.

Anyway, overall, DA2, while displaying some measured improvement in certain areas, overall failed as being an epic, moving story. the potential was there. The mage/templar conflict, as well as the Qunari, were both excellent plots. However, the excution was poor. What Bioware did with this is the equivilant of giving a chef a top quality, prime cut of meat fit for 5 star restaraunts, and then watching this chef drop the prize meet in a cauldron and boil it until it is an unrecognizable, tasteless mess. That's what happened with DA2. Bioware put more effort into awesome buttons than they did on making a story and character I could get into. Like I said, "awesomeness" might appeal to little kids, but I outgrew awesome buttons and ninja awesome combat years ago. You really lost me on this one, Bioware. The game wasn't a total failure, but it was painful enough to make me question the quality of future games, and whether or not they will be worth my interest.

To sum it up: More plot development and cohesion, more character development and choice, stronger gameplay/lore/plot dynamics. And get rid of the dialogue wheel, voiced protagonist, awesome button,s Over the top animations and ridiculious, tedious combat, and pointless plot devices. More indepth explaination of important curiosities, like red lyrium and the Engima of Kirkwall.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

And I forgot another criticism: lack of toolset. This is a big one for me, as I have always been a fan of the modding community. In fact, the ability to mod and truly customize a game is is something that not only makes the game more replayable, but modders work, which they do for hobby and in their spare time, often rivals the work in the vanilla game.

The lack of a toolset, and no word of possible release, actually played a partial role in why I put off buying DA2 for so long. A toolset would have gone a long way in improving my opinion of DA2, as well as probably fixed a couple of my biggest complaints in the game. I will say that as far as possible interest in future DA/Bioware RPG's, a toolset will probably be a major factor in my descisions.

[ourimaler]

Allow me to preface the following with this statement: I. Love. Bioware games. I loved Neverwinter Nights. I loved Jade Empire. I loved Mass Effect 1 and 2. I loved Dragon Age: Origins, including Awakening. I'm sure I would have loved KOTOR if I managed to launch it.

So, I recently got DAII (plus the Legacy and Exiled Prince DLC) and played through it. Female warrior Hawke, completionist run, romanced Merril, obtained full friendship with every companion, tried siding once with the mages and once with the Templars. I'll try to collect my thoughts here:


-I liked the new mechanics. Not a HUGE improvement over DAO, in my opinion, but still an improvement.I realize this puts me in the minority, but I actually LIKED having a more streamlined inventory. I thought it was a big improvement for Mass Effect 2 compared to Mass Effect, and I think DA2 benefited from it. If anything, I wouldn't have minded going even further - I mean, do we really need helms, gauntlets, boots and chest armors to be separate items? I'd be happy if you just had each armor set as a single item.If I have any complaints about the mechanics, it's runes. The fact that they cannot be reused made me wary to use them at all - they mostly just sat in my inventory, because I was afraid of sticking them in an item I'd be replacing soon. A downgrade from DAO, in my opinion.

-I notice a lot of people complain about the repetitive environment. That IS an issue, but as far as I'm concerned it's a fairly minor one. I actually thought the day/night switch was a pretty clever idea.

-On graphics...I can't say I cared much for the different looks on elves and Darkspawn (or how creepy Sandal looked. Like he needed the help!), but the Qunari looked pretty good.

-The companions were fun, especially Varric. Not necessarily better than the DAO companions, but still fun. I do however regret that we cannot see more of Justice - I felt that he was an interesting concept that we never got to explore satisfyingly, and now we never will.

All well and good. HOWEVER, to me, what makes or breaks an RPG isn't mechanics, or graphics, or anything of the sort, but the WRITING. And unfortunately, I feel that DA2 fails on a fundamental level:In the previous Dragon Age game, my Gray Warden was the HERO of the story. Her actions MATTERED. She came into a dark, troubled, messed-up world, and decided to fix what she could. So she did. She made choices, and those choices impacted the world. She helped people. She made the world a better place.
Not so with Hawke. No matter what I did, my Hawke wasn't a hero - just an ineffectual protagonist. Hawke's actions meant absolutely nothing. Hawke came into messed-up situations, and...well, barely survived, often making things worse in the process. Hawke made choices, and those choices didn't matter anyway. Hawke's attempts to help people failed more often than not (hell, given how often the NPCs I tried to help ended poorly, I'm amazed so many of my companions were still alive by the end. It sometimes feels like "companion" means "someone who survives despite receiving Hawke's help").
It's not exactly like DAO was a HAPPY game. Hell no, it was freaking DARK, even if you could play the candle in that darkness. DA2 didn't feel dark - it felt NIHILISTIC. Like the entire message of the game was "the world sucks and there's nothing you can do about it". Save the Bone Pit mine, get all your fellow Fereldan refugees well-paying jobs there? Clear it from monsters several times in Act 2? Great job, now they get killed without warning by a dragon. They all died because Hawke helped. Escort the Qunari mage? He commits suicide.  Rescue Anders's friend? You're too late. Nyssa wants you to protect her from Huon? You watch him kill her. Help/don't help Grace? She murders Thrask. And that, arguably, is the SMALL stuff. You fail to save your mother from a horrible death, Hawke utterly fails to deal with the Qunari issue, the mage/templar crisis will end up exactly the same no matter your choices, and Legacy...Legacy almost feels like the game is pointing at you and laughing; "What? You thought your choices MATTERED?! You thought you could make a positive difference?! Ha ha ha ha ha ha NO."
Our choices make almost no difference except to a small handful of people. Most of the people we want to help die horribly. The entire game careens toward an inevitable conclusion entirely unaffected by our decisions even though Hawke had all the time in the world to make things happen differently. Hell, that whole lyrium idol deal felt like a contrived way of somehow making everything be Hawke's fault somehow. In the end, THE VILLAINS WON (Petrice, while she died messilly, ultimately got what she wanted. Anders, by resorting to mass-murder and terrorism, got what he wanted. Corypheus, no matter all your hard work and choices, got away to threaten the world with Hawke none the wiser).
Our CHOICES, as players, don't matter. Hawke's ACTIONS, as a character, don't matter (the mage/Templar conflict ends up the same no matter what Hawke does. And no, beating the Arishok doesn't count - Meredith was, like, five minutes behind you. Hawke was just at the right time and place to get the credit). Given that, finally, I wonder...Why is this story A GAME? It didn't need the protagonist. It didn't need player input. It could have been a book. Hell, everything that happens in DA2 could (and maybe should?) have been things that happened BETWEEN games, to set the stage for the real adventure.

I'm sorry if I got very negative here, but this is stuff I care about. When I play an RPG, I want to help people. I want to help the game world. Every other Bioware game I've played let me do that. Here, I felt like I was playing a nihilistic tale about helplessness and meaninglessness - and neither of these things has a high replayability value.

Modifié par ourimaler, 11 août 2011 - 12:03 .

[Aulyre]

I completely agree with your comments. Though I really love dark stories, it would have been awesome to know that some of my choices made a difference to the outcome of the story. It is a fantastic environment and I love the characters, game mechanics and graphics, but I did feel like there wasn't much point in worrying about what choices I made since the outcome was always the same.

[ourimaler]

Aulyre wrote...

I completely agree with your comments. Though I really love dark stories, it would have been awesome to know that some of my choices made a difference to the outcome of the story. It is a fantastic environment and I love the characters, game mechanics and graphics, but I did feel like there wasn't much point in worrying about what choices I made since the outcome was always the same.

Yeah.

I don't necessarily need an epic scope. If DA2 had all been about Hawke joining the city guard and cleaning Kirkwall's streets, I'd have been fine with that, so long as my actions mattered on that scope. As the game is set, though, it merely feels like the story of Hawke's rise to greater and greater failure.


The Gray Warden was someone I respected and cared about. Someone I'd love to play again. Hawke feels like someone I've wasted time on - like, no matter how many chances I give him, Hawke will still find a way to fail and screw over the world. I don't feel interested in playing Hawke again.


And then I read that Legacy was intended to fix the things that were bad with DA2, and well...suddenly I'm really worried. (Yeah, OK, I get it. The goal was to fix things that bothered other peple. Fair enough, but why give us enough yet another failure ending where Hawke's actions amount to nothing, where our choices were completely meaningless, and where everything would be better if Hawke hadn't tried to help. It can't be that hard to write a story where that doesn't happen - every other Bioware game manages just fine!)