1012 réponses à ce sujet

[Bombe]

Just a quick one from me. I actually really enjoyed DA2. Yes it had it's flaws (recycled environments etc) but I felt far more connected to this story than DA:O (one of my all time favourite games). One of the complaints that I seem to hear over and over is that "choices don't matter". I couldn't disagree more. While the choices you make don't always effect the events themselves, they do effect your relationships and interactions. Much like real life, you can't control the actions of someone else, all you can control is how you respond to those actions. I think this is what made DA2 far more of a "real" experience for me, and I think it's actually something Bioware should be applauded for.

[smallwhippet]

Cherie Bombe wrote...

Just a quick one from me. I actually really enjoyed DA2. Yes it had it's flaws (recycled environments etc) but I felt far more connected to this story than DA:O (one of my all time favourite games). One of the complaints that I seem to hear over and over is that "choices don't matter". I couldn't disagree more. While the choices you make don't always effect the events themselves, they do effect your relationships and interactions. Much like real life, you can't control the actions of someone else, all you can control is how you respond to those actions. I think this is what made DA2 far more of a "real" experience for me, and I think it's actually something Bioware should be applauded for.

Agree entirely. This game had so much depth and humanity and the characters were far more engaging. Dealing largely with the human face of evil rather than just something with scary teeth and claws made the decision-making far more challenging and nuanced. I hope that DA3 will continue in the same vein. 

[Scitenik]

The first time I played through the game, I didn't really like it. It was kind of disappointing, but after playing the demo, I wasn't really all that surprised. But I also didn't give it a fair enough chance the first time I played it either. It was more of a gut reaction than an actual analysis of the game - although the fact that my gut reaction was 'this game is bad' felt a little hard to realize after how good I felt after playing DA:O.

So I played through a second time, taking my time, analyzing the story, making notes, and then I ranted to my cousin about it.

The frameworks for an excellent story were there. Disregarding the actual game design (combat was fun, didn't like the re-used environments and the way enemies drop in from nowhere, but my main concern in Bioware games is story) I had a lot of fun and there was a lot of potential. The characters were very rich. On this second playthrough, I used Varric a lot more, which I think added to my enjoyment.

But I did notice that things just fell apart in the third act, which was disappointing. Things were escalating very well until that point, minus a few hiccups and the way Act 1 tends to drag on. It's like there were a lot of abandoned plots or that the focus and themes changed. The actual conclusion was also a bit disappointing given how it ends up on a cliffhangar, but I've come to terms with that now in the hopes that they've learned their lesson (Legacy was an improvement and shows they are indeed listening.)

So all in all, I did enjoy the game.

There were things that bothered me, like having my favorite character taken away from me regardless of how I played the game or changed my decisions - Bethany was a ray of sunshine in an otherwise dark game, and losing her voice in the game was hard for me to accept. Not being able to save the mother was also hard to take, but it didn't hit me quite as hard.

If I had to give it a score out of 10, I'd say 6.5. There were a lot of solid ideas, wonderful characters, and fun combat, but in the end, things just didn't hold up or fell apart as time went on.

[WhiteVV1ings]

smallwhippet wrote...

Cherie Bombe wrote...

Just a quick one from me. I actually really enjoyed DA2. Yes it had it's flaws (recycled environments etc) but I felt far more connected to this story than DA:O (one of my all time favourite games). One of the complaints that I seem to hear over and over is that "choices don't matter". I couldn't disagree more. While the choices you make don't always effect the events themselves, they do effect your relationships and interactions. Much like real life, you can't control the actions of someone else, all you can control is how you respond to those actions. I think this is what made DA2 far more of a "real" experience for me, and I think it's actually something Bioware should be applauded for.

Agree entirely. This game had so much depth and humanity and the characters were far more engaging. Dealing largely with the human face of evil rather than just something with scary teeth and claws made the decision-making far more challenging and nuanced. I hope that DA3 will continue in the same vein. 

I agree 100%, the connection who have with the characters are truly inspiring to me. Such depth and interaction that really immerses you into the world of DA2. I look forward to DA3. 

[Shadowvalker]

DA 2 was a funny game – from an action point of view. But I do
have issues regarding the story.

Well I for one learned a lot about the deduction of logic at
Bioware:

A mother with children born with magic wants to take them to
a templar ruled city just because it is her childhood home? Come on! It would
have been much more realistic if Mother died and not one of the siblings in
that regard! Then they could have embarked on the journey to Kirkwall.

But I might be mistaken – every mother only wants to put their children in a
lot more danger! Logic!

If I blame policy makers way to rule then I should go out
and find and kill the local well loved priest…! That makes a hero, just and fair!
Thanks Bioware! Always nice to have good teachers.

The title of the game – Rise to power?? Hmm. Ending up
losing everything..

Making the Hawke the dumbest person set in Thedas? I keep
wondering how he was able to gain any followers at all… Many of the options you
are given while interact with others are utterly insane and makes no sense to
me, especially given the background of the Hawke family.

Hey – I’m a mage, my father was a highly trained circle mage
escaped the circle and the templar’s forced into helping the former game hero’s
– the grey wardens – to apply blood magic without giving knowledge of such
things to his mage children? What a father! Nice, helpful!

And of cause my father taught me how to lay low as an apostate mage – don’t
draw attention to yourself…! I think that lesson didn’t go over well???! I mean
give him/her the opportunity to become a hired mage for the Red Iron?! Nice
hideout! The smuggler way was as I see it the only one plausible if you tried
to play a good hearted character.

Merrill is doing a far better job at this – hiding behind
childish innocence! That was in my mind really a good move! And it is very
realistic! Given her background and lack of knowledge of humans that was truly
brilliant! A superb character and the smartest in the game! And her comments were
so true for her character. That girl may seem dumb and a pain in the butt – don’t
let that fool you!!

Oh – yes then we have Anders – Why did I let him live after
learning about Justice? Perhaps because ice-cream taste so good?! Yes that must
be it because my father, Malcolm, did indeed taught me what I as a mage should
learn in order to live in a world of magic, demons, abominations etc..

I mean if I somehow befriended Jack the Ripper – would I stand idle by and let
him continued his rampage or do something to end it one way or the other the very
minute I learned about his atrocities?

You gave us the option to turn in Isabella but not Anders?
That made sense! Or???

The chantry: those of us who played Origins had the
impression that they to some extend did good deeds – chanter’s board. Then you
set the game in a city full of refugees just after a blight and then not take advantage
of it? If you are even planning to revive the glory of the chantry- by that I mean
as an institution of good in future games then I think you busted up an opportunity.
 I really wanted to kill that bloody priestess
that was walking around Lowtown and the one at the Docks! Those two strolling
among the most hardworking and the poorest asking for money and support for the
chantry?! Damn! You’ve got a lot of nerve!

Not on one occasion did we meet one good priestess or priest – self-centered
****es that ask for support for money and support or back talking each other.

Bioware did indeed applied logic when I took Merrill with me
to meet Bodan – I mean she is seeking information about her missing clans mate
or mates if you used the Dalish story and then – NOTHING?! WOW! Nice move! Well
Merrill must have been sleepwalking because later one in the game she actually
asks Anders about the warden. Logic in abundance! True to the story? I don’t
think so.

Listen and learn – Yeah right. Tons of NPC speaking about
the knight-commander – Why? You can’t use the information anyway! Not even
those bits of info you hear about Isabella?! That could have been used in a conversation
clash with her – she could then either have lied more or confessed, upon which the
player could make a decision about her involvement in the group or being kicked
out! In any cache it would have made interaction more real and intriguing!

I also think that the other interaction with your companions
was lousy compared with DAO. In Origins you had a far better way to have conversations
and slowly build on it in order to learn about their lives! Only 2 fairly good
ones in DA2 – Fenris and Aveline!  One
thing I do find a bit off is that Merrill even if romanced doesn’t open up more
and in light Hawke in elven life, magic and history. Though I did loved the
story about FenHarel and the keeper’s dog on the silent plains! Nice one!
I lack the realistic feeling I got when I interacted with Sten, Alistair, Oghren ect. Like a natually evolving relationship.


Why can a goodhearted Hawke NOT help the elves in the city
or at least try to do some good for them? Selfishness perhaps, but then again
that too makes a hero I understand. You are able to help or try to help the
qunari and the fereldens but not elves.

 You can’t even interact with the city
elves regarding comers even though there are suppose to be shops? Logic! With
this in mind then the qunari seem to be the only ones trying to help the elves!
What a hero our beloved Hawke is! You have a bunch of fans all of them know how
elves are being treated by humans and then you let us just sit there looking on
with distaste as the indecent treatment continues? WOW!  

Amazing that the majority of fans seem to be into the
growing conflict between mages and templar’s for the very same reason? But I
guess that elves don’t deserve the same amount of attention and feelings of
humanity and fair treatment.

In my world any indecent behavior towards anybody is and
will always be just that regardless of background, color, nose size, ear shape
and what not! And here you, BIOWARE, failed completely!

Why tell us the intriguing tales of The Black Fox, the
Dales, Arlathan etc. in Origins and then again in DA 2 only to let those tales
rest? I for one am in this realm mostly for the story and I have yet to learn more and
by that I mean a LOT more.  You build up
a plot regarding the enigma of Kirkwall and then let I go?? That was a cheap
move! Why make us run around picking up treads that led us nowhere? If that was
made to be some sort of lunch pack for later use – then I for one don’t make
those only to be used 4 years from now..!

The ending was truly a weird one to say the least. I mean
you were able to sway some of your friends in order to go with your own beliefs.
But I still don’t know if knight captain Cullen’s retreat after you dealt with
the wonderful knight commander if you sided with the mages was one of respect
or fear after having seen the Hawke Company in action? But always nice to have
options especially regarding ending of RPG’s – Ooops! That’s right – there were
only bad endings so no options! And NO realistic fill out the blanks epilogs!
An utterly big-time mistake!

In Assassin you began to build upon the story line with
Aveline and her past and now you have pulled the pluck on DA 2? I really hope
you can do better than that! You made mistakes got criticized by your customers
and now you run for cover by stopping it all? I don’t know what to make of that
but offhand I certainly don’t see that as a good thing.

All things considered then I must admit that I feel cheated and
perhaps even robbed of a good story regarding DA 2. You had the best setup from
Origins and blew it. That’s sad. You promised us more insight to the realm but
left only more questions and half-truths.  I feel like you having sold me a joke and then
withhold the punch line.

PS.

Recycling of areas?! Hmm. I would really like to extend the same courtesy to
Bioware, so I would like to recycle the money I spent on DA 2 on DA 3!

Modifié par Shadowvalker, 26 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[AstraDrakkar]

Ok, my dislikes are:

1. Not enough interaction time with team members. ( I wanted more cut scenes and relationship development)
2. Reused area maps.
3. Time jumps over a 10 year period. (incongruity)
4. Ending the DLC's. ( I got ME3 just to kill time while waiting for a new DLC) I'm not really into space theme games like i am the medieval kind.

I liked:

1. A voiced male and female protagonist whose appearance could be customized.
2. The character designs and art styles. I loved the appearance of Fenris, Anders, the Qunari, and the dragons. I have to admit that i like eye candy. If a game doesn't have good graphics, it won't hold my attention. (I definitely prefer the appearance of the DA2 characters in comparison to the appearance of the ME3 characters)

Modifié par AstraDrakkar, 29 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[Askia32]

Gameplay:
 I love the changes to the gameplay.  It felt so much smoother and fun than it did in DA:O.  I really enjoyed the combination attacks.

Hawke:
I loved going through the story of Hawke.  It really helped me feel connected to his character.  I do wish we could of seen more emotion out of him. We saw his brother/sister die in the beginning, we see his mother painfully stitched to another body, than die, and we see the other sibling either die, become a warden, or move to the Gallows.  I believe it would of made the story feel more real if we saw Hawke loose it a little bit with seeing the state of his family.  It feels like he moves on so fast to the point that it seems like he didn't care.

Kirkland:  
It would of gone a long way to get out of Kirkwall more.  Going through the same area's and caves over and over became a huge bore.  By year 3, I was so sick of the city that part of me didn't want to play the game anymore.  The two prime DLC's were so refreshing being in a new enviroment.  

Story Arcs:
Act 1 was a bit boring, but I understand it was building the foundation for the rest of the game.  Act 2 was amazing.  Dealing with the Qunari with the mage/templer battle brewing in the background was incredible. The incredible voice acting really made this Act come alive.  Act 3, with the mage vs templar drama reaching its climax, it left a lot to be desired.  The whole arc felt like it was rushed.  This was the huge event that shakes the world, so it should of been fleshed out more.  With Anders blowing up the chantry, it didn't feel as impactful as it should of because the arc was so rushed.  

One of my biggest annoyances is the passing of time.  We have three time skips, but the city doesn't change much, and the characters don't change at all.  I think every companion should have had at least a slightly different look with visible aging and new clothes.  Like maybe Aveling cuts her hair, and Isabella wearing pants(lol).  I think implementing changes to companions to display the passing of time would of went a long way.  Key NPC's would be a huge a plus aswell.

Companions:
Hard to make valid points about this topic since most of my issues are probably subjective.  I just hope in DA3, the companions are not as whiny and stubborn to the point of stupidity like a couple characters in DA2.  That being said, I loved Aveline and Varric.  Out of all the characters, these are the only two that I got the feeling that they were good friends with Hawke.  I also really enjoed Bethany.  She had the innocense of Merril, without the annoying stubborness.  It was sad that she was only in parts of the game, and I really hope she is a main companion and romance option in the third game.  

Ending:
I believe endings are very important because its the last thing you see in the game, and hopefully gives you a sense of closure and excitement for the next, if there is an obvious sequal.  The ending in DA2 left me really disappointed.  After investing 30 hours+ into the story of a guy and his friends, and his city, we only hear about everying thing by listening to a conversation between two people.  The character that you are invested in just up and vanishes with no type of closure.  It comes of kind of like a slap to the face.  If Hawke has disappeared, let us get a sense of where he is at by at least allowing us to see him in some type of environment.  The whole world is at the brink of war, than let us feel that by seeing some of the rebllions going on in different cities.  

What frustrates me is that I truly believe Dragon Age 2 could of been one of the greatest games of all time, but was settled to just being good.

Modifié par Askia32, 05 avril 2012 - 03:34 .

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

 If DAO is like an evening banquet fit for a king, then DA2 is like waking up to a sunny but cool and slightly windy morning towards the smell of warm pancakes and maple syrup being served in a shady forest clearing surrounded by flowers. Thats how i feel about DA2 in contrast with DAO.

DA2 may have been a little less intense than DAO in terms of how players are challenged. But the story and writing did not anyway fall short. It is equally as compelling and full of depth as DAO. The story and plot of DA2 is what actually defines it than gameplay. The Thedas-siaic historical theme and the events of the 5th Blight from DAO are successfully accentuated here. DAO veterans can expect to re-experience the same intense drama and compelling plots in DA2. Guaranteed.

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

AstraDrakkar wrote...

Ok, my dislikes are:

1. Not enough interaction time with team members. ( I wanted more cut scenes and relationship development)
2. Reused area maps.
3. Time jumps over a 10 year period. (incongruity)
4. Ending the DLC's. ( I got ME3 just to kill time while waiting for a new DLC) I'm not really into space theme games like i am the medieval kind.

I  feel the same way about the DA2 and about games in general.Don't like space fantasy either. Those crazy over the top looking sentient aliens are too absurd for me. Although i have played the original KOTOR series 

1. A voiced male and female protagonist whose appearance could be customized.
2. The character designs and art styles. I loved the appearance of Fenris, Anders, the Qunari, and the dragons. I have to admit that i like eye candy. If a game doesn't have good graphics, it won't hold my attention. (I definitely prefer the appearance of the DA2 characters in comparison to the appearance of the ME3 characters)

[Foolsfolly]

Call it boredom call it a slow and steady growth of interest in Dragon Age 3.... but for whatever reason I'm playing Dragon Age 2 for the first time in quite a few months.

Here's some thoughts I had if BioWare's still looking around these forums for input:

-If we have a dog in DA3 (pretty please) make it a sustainable that last through load zones so I don't have to recast a dog constantly. And if it's not too troublesome to do having it wave over towards the player ala the wave mechanic in Legacy instead of appearing like magic that'd be for the best.

-Although not nearly as bad as Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 it takes a really long time for the game to 'start.' You know where we walk around and start questing, gathering items, talking to our companions, all those things you're playing the game to do. The last three BioWare games have some rather LONG begins that are mostly on rails and devoid of the things we like about playing these games. Mass Effect 3, for example, is over two hours of opening before we can just walk around the Normandy and access the Galaxy Map. Get through that opening stage a little faster please.

-Create the character first and then start the game. ME2 and DA2 tried to integrate character creation into the story with mixed results. I'd much rather just press Start New Game, build my appearance, choose a class, and then have the game start.

-Fights with reasonable amounts of enemies. At the start of the game when you arrive in Kirkwall the guard is talking to some unsavory folks. They start a fight. This group of four-five guys turns into a massive fight at least 20 strong in men that just appear out of no where. If we're shown a set number of guys and things get hostile... can we keep the numbers more or less reasonable. I'm not against big fights but that was really funny upon replay. And not a good kind of funny.

- Random idea: Hireling Companions. For those times when you kill/dismiss your tank/rogue and you really need a tank/rogue. Hirelings fill the spot, have minimal dialogue, cost gold on some kind of a basis, and even run the risk of betrayal if someone utters that oft said phrase, "I'll pay you double..." Fun idea, but of course I'm biased and love mercenaries.

-Codex entries open up dialogue options. You get these entries all the time and they're great for world building and explaining things to the player. But I'd love to see them used in the game itself. So the PC knows about some subject to ask an NPC because they have prior learned knowledge on that subject. It'd be fun in certain circumstances and maybe even really important. But never too important you know?

-Can delete saved games from the game on the Xbox without going into the hard drive and manually deleting them. Please, pretty please!

- In general I want more opportunities to lie, cheat, and steal. I'd like to play a Tyrion Lannister from time to time and no game really allows that, in part because you so very rarely get to lie to NPCs in games. And NPCs so rarely lie to the PC.

- I really like the rivalry/friendship system, the personalities, the large amount of tactics slots on characters, and companions themselves were really well written. I really hope you don't toss those out when it comes to DA3.

-Personality icons should avoid the colors blue and red. People will always just assume they mean good and bad. Lots of early bad talk about the personality system came down to people making a lot of assumptions. Using other colors may lessen some of those wrong assumptions... or maybe not. People are strange.

-Leggings/grieves/pants can we have them as another armor slot?

-If you go with bigger maps similar to a sand box game (although I doubt it'd be a true sandbox game) just remember to give us a zoomable map and allow us to place map markers.

- Armor should have more specific types of names. Like Leather Boots, Chainmail Boots, Plate Boots, Elven Boots, Sage Boots, and the like instead of the "Boots" we find in DA2. It caused a lot of minor eye strain shifting through a dozen same named items with sometimes wildly different stats. Rings were especially bad at this.

- Allow the PC to be less sociopathic with their quests. I'm looking at this note I wrote while playing the game and I don't remember the specific mission that made me think that. But a lot of the quests in the "I'm a poor refugee trying to make my way through the world" stage of the game revolves around otherwise nice and good Hawkes (and Bethany) being serial killers for hire. It was a little weird, Aveline's rather easy going about that fact too despite being a town guard.

-Character create should allow us to customize the body, fat/thin, scrawny/muscular. Having never worked on a video game I don't know the problems with making armor and clothing fit multiple body sizes... all I know is other games can do it... and in my ignorance I must think it's easy to pull off.

-I like crafting better in DA2 instead of how it was in DA:O. I know many people said otherwise but I think I like easier... and cheaper. Buying lyrium at the Mage Tower and running to Denerim to grab bottles and other components to make a Lyrium Potion is just too many steps for my liking. And the Runecrafting in Awakening was just awful.

-I like the combat in DA2. I feel it gets a bad rap as a less tactical game than DA:O. I think you guys showed us in Legacy that with proper maps, enemy variance, and altering the wave mechanic a bit that it can be quite tactical. Rogues, I feel, were the most tactical with their threat management skills on top of the general unit placement and cross class combos.

-In regards to DLC, I think DLC works best when its building on something in the main game. Because then it feels like we're branching out and exploring aspects of the greater world at large whereas seemingly random DLC only feels like some added on content. Example: in Mass Effect 1 we know about the Shadow Broker, meet his agents, get codex entries on the guy, and generally know he lives and operates in the universe. That made Lair of the Shadow Broker feel a little more connected to the world than say Golems of Amgarak. Golems had nothing to connect to in the original game. It felt really out of no where. I also liked what the New Vegas guys did with their DLC having a single story thread loosely connecting all of the DLCs into a single story. Each DLC stood on its own well but also had hints, clues, and characters in common with the other DLCs.

Those are my notes I've written in two days of playing the game again. Just thoughts you may or may not find interesting. Thanks for hanging around and listening to fans at all.

[Foolsfolly]

Rojahar wrote...

All awesome suggestions, Foolsfolly. I agree on everything. As for the friendship/rivalry, I think heard for DA3 they plan to just change it back to approval/disapproval, due to most players assuming rivalry was bad anyway, which is unfortunate. I think you're exactly right in that color coding is part of the reason players shy from things like rivalry/renegade/aggressive. They assume they're picking the "bad" option because it's red, which is kind of a video game trope.

That would be unfortunate. The Friendship/Rivalry system really opened up the roleplaying in DA2 more so than the Like/Dislike system in Origins. If you played a Ruthless Warrior in Origins you still had to play utra-nice guy with Leliana just to keep someone who can open locks. In DA2 I could play a very pro-templar character and still keep Anders around as my healer.

It also changed romances and their personalities and relationship with Hawke. It's really the superior system. I can see futher refining of the system but tossing it out for the Origin system is a huge step back.

[n0na90]

 I liked a  lot of ideas and potential in DA 2, but as many other fans I feel like the game fell completely flat from what it could've been. 

For one, I've never considered myself to be much of a graphic-w**re (can still boot up BG 1 and enjoy it) but I always felt like the graphics in DA:O were dull, mediocre at best, and simply boring. The tale and the characters and all the lore was great, and I felt it was such a shame that the game world itself couldn't reflect on that depth and immerson. DA 2 stepped up in this respect (Aside from the horribly re-used areas of course), and it is a good-looking game. Of course DA 2 gets its ass handed to it by games like The Witcher 2 and Skyrim, but I did appriciate the better graphics nonetheless.
 
Never was much for the pre-determined, voiced main character, but it worked decently and I thought Hawke was likable and customizable enough.  I also really liked the idea of the story spanning through years instead of over a huge realm, focusing on a single city. This is one part where I feel DA 2 failed badly at grasping the potential of the concept, but it was still a good try, and I would love to see Bioware give it a new try with a new area, a new story and new characters.
 
There's a lot of flaws to pick at and a lot of ideas and accompllishments to praise, in the game, but I'll just go right to the 3rd chapter and the ending. I must say I have never before felt so upset, so unsaitsfied and so disappointed with the ending of a Bioware game. From BG 1 all the way to DA:O,  every single game has left me with a feeling of "Whoa, this has been one epic adventure". It's one reason I've always been a Bioware fan, the way the game wraps up and ends makes me feel really satisfied, and DA 2 was the opposite.

The whole game in generall, but the 3rd chapter and the final boss and what happened (Or did not happen) afterwards in particular,  felt very, very rushed. I'm not used to seeing that from Bioware so I'm wondering what made them rush this game so badly when they took their time and created their older masterpieces .
Despite all this negative ranting, it says a lot that I still think DA 2 is a good RPG. I hope Bioware learns a lot from the making of this game and the feedback they've got from it as well as not only looking at competitors products (Skyrim and others) but also looking at their older games and what made them so great.

Modifié par n0na90, 22 avril 2012 - 12:22 .

[Antithisis]

Having played bioware games for a very long time, I am seeing a disturbing trend. Sacrificing story for action.
 
In DA2 the mage story is the rogue story is the warrior story. In a city that is being torn apart by a conflict between mages and templars how does hawke walk about tossing spells and not end up in irons? Add to this that seemingly every mage is a blood mage and I would think the populace would be running about with pitchforks and torches killing anything that looked like a mage.

I get saddled with a possesed mage, that turns terrorist. An angsty elf who hates mages (brilliant if you play the mage line). and an elf bloodmage that is obsessed with recovering a mirror. Can I influence them in any way? Nope. Is it hard to spot that Anders will be a problem? Nope. Can I forsee huge issues if the elf continues on the path she is on? Yep. But I cant do a thing to avoid any of it. 

All games have contrived stories, its necessary, but the brilliance of bioware was in hiding this and letting you go your own way. Now, in the last 2 games I have played (ME3 and DA2) what i do doesnt matter. I can pick a color (ME3) or I have the choice of supporting an insane templar in mass murder or help the folks the game has done its best to show me shouldnt be allowed to exist (disappointing revelation if you play a mage).

I agree with others about the mechanics issues, but I wonder how big an issue those things would be if the story actually caught you, immersed you in what was happening and most of all made you feel it was your story.

[Euki2010]

I have played Dragon Age-Origins and DA II to death. However I will admit DA II came much later for me. I purchased DAO out of the gate and was extremely excited about it. I am a long time Bioware supporter and I love their games. I did purchase DA II for PS3 and was not happy with it so I only played it for a few and put it aside. It wasn't until I purchased it two months ago for PC that I really got into it. I am not much of a console gamer. I was delighted to see the upgraded graphics even though they were still to be desired for the times. I'll make this easy instead of having you listening to my ramblings.

DA 2 Pros

The fact that they even made a Dragon Age 2
Graphics
Story- For the Most Part
The Return of Beloved Characters
The romances
The DLC's - Love me some Felica Day "Tallis"


Cons- Sadly there are many for me. Your opinion may differ.
The fact that I do not have more story options- By this I mean I should be able to choose if my mother dies or not. After all the woman is staying in my house. I should be able to say "There is a murderer on the loose and you need to stay inside till its safe." If my relationship is high enough with her...Then she should simply stay put and go into the ending with me. That is just my opinion on the matter.

I should be able to "REALLY" help Anders pull Justice from his behind then maybe he'll quit being so "Oh poor me. I'm a mage and everyone hates me." Once Justice is gone then he should be able to think more clearly and not blow up the Chantry.

Yes but how would it end....It would end two ways. I continue to choose a side "Templars or Mages" And if I choose the templars then Varric could end my story such as "Seeker that at which you seek has been here the whole time." Then she is shocked to find out that I'm the new Viscount.

Sebastian- I love him darn it and he should love my character so much that he leaves the Chantry for me and we rule his lands together.

My main gripe is that the questing starts and ends in one city. I liked DA0-Awakening where that wasnt the case. I also liked that I could choose to let the grey warden vigil parish or a the city. That was a great option. Another main gripe is that I'm a human I have no other choice than to be a human. In DAO it really opened up a lot of story to choose your race/class and start in their zone. I understand the Human Hawke story and its fine. But what if I were able to be a character like Merril then run into a character like Hawke. I know Bioware understands what I mean. Much like what they did in the original.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer or maybe the fact that I role play in my head along with my character. I get lost in the game.

I heard a rumor that DA3 might be a MMO much like SWTOR. This would be EPIC. I know many of you complain about this. But it could be like D3. You can solo the game and have your epic love affairs with your companions. But then you could choose to group up with other players for epic battles. Yes its a WIN!

Modifié par Euki2010, 26 avril 2012 - 03:28 .

[Shadow6773]

I agree with others about the mechanics issues, but I wonder how big an issue those things would be if the story actually caught you, immersed you in what was happening and most of all made you feel it was your story.

They would have been an issue and noticed but glossed over a bit more. DAO is a good example of this as that game overall got most things right(my opinion) and the few percieved issues it had(graphics, gameplay style) could be forgiven to a degree because the other aspects were done so well making an overall good product.

For myself I just could never get into DA2 because of immersion and story issues. I can ignore certain things in a game(graphics, gameplay mechanics ect)  but if a story and immersion in it is not up to par, the game becomes forgetable. And lets face it folks, this is a Bioware game so there are standards which need to be met.

My issues..

There were far to many plot breaks and time skips.. especially during points I would have loved to participate with what happened. I mean we get one essientially a few mins(like 10) into the game when we opt to..    (a join smuggler crew  or  (b join mercenaries.. Now while I have no idea what they would have done, I figure it would have been more fun then running around trying to earn my gold for the expedition doing favors later on. This also wasted what I think was a good chance to shape the main character and decide who they are going to be as an individual early on, as well as help you create your image and reputation as someone "rising to power". This is a huge problem as the entire game I never felt I had risen above anything, my titles felt hollow with no evidence or firsthand experiance to back them. Later on in game when I did do some things worthy of attention(finally) my character STILL feels ineffectual due to the way the plot was written.

The plot itself sounds awesome. Building your legacy in a city, rising to power through cunning and strength, negotiating political treacheries and using your influnce to shape the world. Sadly I did not get to do any of that, the world is pretty much kicking my butt as Hawke seems very reactive. That being said I understood what they were trying to do in starting off this inevitible and unavoidable war. I get that this is necessarily to set up their world for new events. It was also about as subtle as a sledgehammer. Our illusions of control or choice are handled in a similar manner sadly.. as parts of the plot and incidents involving our character and companions are not dealt with in a careful manner either. Taking away the illusion of choice or hiding it really poorly in this case(normally a Bioware strength) does not help this game.

Moving on..

The time skips....oh boy, all in all were just very jarring and removed even more of the belief in areas of the game. They are however, a great example of a good idea implemented poorly(an overiding theme of this game). Not only were the time skips implemented wrong but the passage of time does not show any drastic visual changes in characters or the city. I am a firm believer that if you do something there should be benefits for the effort and a logical reason, aka something should be achomplished by doing so, if not, the effort is a waste of time. This is what boggles my mind with this game when they opt to use plot devices like the time skip but don't implement them to their full potential. Its like a comittee just came up with cool ideas and threw them together without any futher reasoning of what they were trying to do with them and the most effective ways to do so.

If you have played another Bioware game recently(coff.. ME3) you will have noticed similar issues of efforts wasted, specifically the war assets and multiplayer which are both actually good ideas...and once again used poorly. The war assets never being more then a imaginary readyness number and also not showing any physical differences in how your fleet perfoms later on(cut scene) unlike a certain ME2 finale. The multiplayer, while increasing your  universe "readyness" also never seems to have a reason to exist beyond that and the reason some people" think the game should have multiplayer"(I would have just liked co-op). All in all, it feel very thrown together hastily. Now you may wonder why I mention another recent game of Bioware's in this review as an example and I will tell you. The real issue is this.. Due to budget and time restraints do you want Bioware working on time wasting, useless aspects of a game when there are more importent things still broken? For many people DAO "just needed some polish" when it came to graphics and combat. How did we get this game from that?

This is the problem with DA2. things that should have been fixed were not and some things that were great before now are broken and results are mixed. The graphics, while cleaner, are bland and the environments are uninspired and boring. The race reboots, while cool looking for the Quanari are downright ugly for the elves. Half the dungeons are recycled and you are stuck in one city, which seeing as how its the only location should look way more detailed then what we are getting. Your companions barely talk to you anymore and you halve almost no influence over them. The combat is faster but lacks a strategy element and the enemies are strewn all over and often have no logical reason to even attack you as you have had no interactions with most of them. The inventory and loot which was awesome before is now reduced to listing items with no special names to distinguish them and for god's sake, why am I picking up junk? The crafting is a joke and you can't even customise armor or looks for companions. The skill trees are neat and varied but character classes and specialties limit who I can group with and as such I am stuck with certain people I may or may not like if they have a specialty I can only get from them.. (example: healing). The story, which I explained was an appealing idea becomes less appealing then the common theme of "save/unite..world, people, whatever" when I have no clear direction in which to go. Also the quests suffer as well and become mediocre chores because of this. Heck, many of them just are mediocre tasks(fedex quests), not becoming of some great champion.

The truth is...I want to like this game, I really do. But the fact is I have only been able to get through it once and was so underwhelmed with the ending I cannot play it again. I have tried multiple times.. There are other games I have played and still play that are worse then this.. but those games also have maybe one or two major things wrong with them.. not the list I just gave for this one. For me.. any game I can tear apart and see so many issues in is not something that has replay value.

I hope Bioware thinks long and hard about DA3 and uses their time productively on fixing issues that matter, keeping the core rpg elements and story strenth intact and wasting less time on other "cool" sounding fluff. My opinion is hardly the be all end all and others I'm sure have liked the game despite these flaws. Myself however will be cautious buying future Bioware products until I have read some trusted reviews. I do not like the pattern I am seeing and where the ship is going.

Modifié par Shadow6773, 27 avril 2012 - 04:41 .

[ThunderboltSeven]

I know I'm late to the party, but I finally finished the game last night after having it sit idle on my hard drive for over a year. I was really disappointed in the game and the state it was in when it released, and decided to shelve it for other titles I had in my backlog after hearing negative comments from friends who completed the game. Getting to talk with some of the DA team at PAX certainly helped revitalize my love of the franchise, and with a clear mind (and patches that fixed a lot of the issues I had) I decided to try and extract my money's worth having paid full price for the Signature Edition.

Boy, am I glad I waited.

Contrary to the hysterical masses that furiously came down on the game shortly after its release, I enjoyed the majority of the 31 hours I spent completing DA2. Was it anywhere near the level of the first game? Absolutely not. Are there major flaws in the story and game structure? You bet. I won't go into excruciating detail about the issues I have with DA2 since most of it's already been detailed both in this thread on the fourms, but despite these problems I spent more time smiling than I did frowning while going through the game.

Part of the reason I had so much fun, I think, is how I decided to define my Hawke character. I was extremely put off by the idea of a fixed protagonist a la Mass Effect, and when I first played the game (and the demo), I didn't really care for the character's backstory, his voice, etc. When I picked up the game last month, I decided to play as sort of an "evil" Hawke - to create a character that acted in ways that I found morally or ethically revolting. This is in contrast to my Warden, who I poured myself into and felt like I created a character that I could admire. I played Hawke as a bitter man and a ruthless social climber, who became willing to increase his influence in Kirkwall at any cost. I chose to illustrate Hawke's aging process through his hairstyle, stopping into the Black Emporium at the start of each Act to change his hairstyle appropriately. Hawke started the game with a full head of swept-back, wavy orange/red hair; starting Act 1 with the combover variant of said hairstyle; playing through Act 2 with a Hawke that defied his hair loss by shaving his entire head bald; and finishing the game with an older Hawke embracing his baldness, sporting a more traditional "Captain Picard" look. This is again in stark contrast to my Warden, who sported a full head of flowing, golden locks. I envisioned the two men as being rivals in every conceivable way, hoping for a showdown in the next entry in the series (please?).

At the end of the game, I was very, very satisfied with how the story for my Hawke ended (if not the actual written ending to the game). After Meredith's defeat, my only three remaining companions were the captain of the guard, who I had in my pocket; the town's most connected and prominent storyteller, whose words would ensure that people around Thedas knew of Hawke and feared him; and the prince of a nearby kingdom who would soon ascend to power and owed Hawke a series of large favors. Hawke eliminated the mages of Kirkwall, whose powers he could not easily understand or control, and did away with any companions or NPCs that he saw as unreliable or a threat to his ascension to power.

EDIT: Also, I would have given an organ to have been offered a chance to say something along the lines of, "Now that the mages have been dealt with, there's one loose end I have to tie up..." just before the battle with Meredith. Bonus points if Cassandra would have commented to Varric that "the Champion played both sides against one another in a cruel bid to consolidate power in the region?! What a monster!" instead of the "So the Champion was innocent" line that she says in the ending cinematic.

In the end, I actually think that the aggregated critic scores come relatively close to the value of DA2 - I'd have it a little lower than the 82 the PC verison holds on Metacritic, somewhere in the 75-80 range. There is a lot of value in DA2 for players that enjoy the Dragon Age universe, especially now that the game can be found at bargain prices. I'm hoping for a lot more from the inevitable third entry in the series, but having completed Hawke's story I'm definitely more invested in seeing where the series goes from here.

Modifié par ThunderboltSeven, 02 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[jcmuki]

It was a mediocre RPG, not exceptionally good but not bad either just OK. If it didn't have the Dragon Age name attached to it, it might have been a really good RPG. But since it was billed as a sequel to Dragon Age Origins, it didn't live up to it's predessor.

Instead the game fills like bunch of side quest with one important side quest in each act. I never get the sense of an overreach story arc or a heroes journey.  The game as a whole felt like a side story to the Dragon Age series or the life of Hawke with all these important thing happening around him and Hawke is just caught in the middle of it.

The fast fluid combat was nice but it wasn't practical given the games design choice of using waves of enemies. If they had just set the game in Denerim during the Blight of Origins with a new character, it would be the same as playing Dragon Age II. Thing just happen in Kirkwall and Hawke just gets caught up in it.

My other grips are the same grips that have been repeat over ond over again: repeating maps, endless waves of enemies, no armor customization for companions, simplifed dialogue choices.

I also don't like how there is less item sets in the game, there is only like 3 item sets for each class, 5 if you include the DLCs, while Origins and Awakening had multiple item sets.

[Emzamination]

 Pros:
I found Dragon age 2 as previous user stated to be very deep and Immersive in terms of interaction with companions and dialogue.I hope they return with that immersion in Dragon age 3.
I loved that you had the ability to step away from paying lap dog and talk about settling down with a family one day with your loved one.
I found the whole Idea of picking a side in the Templar/mage war, exhilarating as it took the series to the next level by incorporating the ability to have personal beliefs and preferences into the story, origins was extremely lacking in this.
Sister...I loved that I wasn't the last of my line so I didn't feel as alone as I was in origins.It felt good knowing that I had actual biological family I could consort with on personal matters, ya know.Ooooo bethany, I may hate mages but blood will always come first, sister.
The fast paced combat was well done artistically speaking.

Cons:
The lack of finisher executions like the two hands of fate pulling people apart was very disappointing.
The whole system of enemies leveling with you totally destroys any hope of you becoming a one man/woman army seeing as you never actually surpass anything in terms of power.

The auto dialog system HAS to go, it didn't cut it in awakening, it crippled 30% of me3, it's just not working out bioware.I Hated trying to talk to my lover about our relationship and getting some pre written auto dialog response like "O hi there" and "I'm glad your with me" and even more so when I didn't even get romanced dialog but the generic friend dialog.

I did not like the idea of jumping through hoops for 30-40 hours only to find myself with a title and power I rightfully earned, have the game end and 30-40 hours of hard work and sacrifice go down the drain as my title and power are stripped.If I wanted to give up my power and leave kirkwall, that is MY decision to make and mine alone.I should've been given a set of options on what I wanted to do with MY future like I was at the end of origins.

 Personal preferences:

I hated that I had no option to save the grand cleric...Maybe her murder was meant to ignite rage and retribution in we Templar players which it most certainly did for me at least but Idk...still. 

I should've been given a choice between becoming vicount or the new Knight commander or both.

I would've liked a mini game or something akin to holding court and deciding people's fates like in Awakening when I became vicount.Why even bother to give us power and titles if you're just going to completely nullify our authority and make little to no mention of it at all.The same thing happened with origins in the case or the human noble,Dwarf noble/commoner, we were given high ranking titles but in awakening our titles were either never mentioned in the case of the dwarves being paragons or carried no weight in the case of the royal human noble.

Stop sword blocking me david

That is all 

Modifié par Emzamination, 05 mai 2012 - 03:15 .

[GeosisNL]

It's funny, my opinion has changed an awful lot while playing (and replaying) this game. I had a hard time adjusting to this game.

My first impression was bad. Mostly because I chose the wrong class for me and also played the game in the wrong way, clicking on every mob before realising there was an "attack nearest target" option. I got about halfway through the game before deciding to start anew with a different class and also with a different personality.

Since I had gotten used to the game's art style, combat and companions it felt a lot more natural the second time around. I also went from rogue to mage, which gave me a lot more tactical insights into the combat, which in turn increased the fun I had with battles. As a rogue I felt the combat was lacking and felt forced and tedious most of the time but as a mage I hungered for more battles and experience, strangely enough.

What I simply failed to realise is that this game is not like Origins at all. Origins is mostly dark and dreary and is all about the doom of the upcoming Blight and the darkspawn threat, DA2 is more about personal development and hawke's conflicts and principles. Also, since Hawke is fully voiced it felt like watching an interactive movie from time to time, again, a lot different than Origins. Not necessarily better or worse, just...different. In origins I could roleplay my Warden, BE the Warden. In DA2 I could shape Hawke as a character, but not roleplay at all. Which is fine, since Hawke already has an established personality, I could simply steer it in the direction I wanted (Gotta love FemHawke's Voice acting though, really helped define her as a character).

I really respect Bioware for what they did with this game. They actually managed to create a long full RPG experience with only a small area to play in, few locations and reused area's but still the game manages to tell a very convincing and involving story. This is proof of Bioware's amazing storytelling.

The companions are mostly fantastic though, except for Anders and Fenris imo. They both complain a bit too much and because of that sometimes come off as one-dimensional characters. But I loved the fact that the companions really seem to have a life of their own, with their own goals and ambitions. You can actually see certain characters grow, Avelyne and Carver in particular. Only gripe is that there's not enough interaction! Bah, such interesting characters but so little opportunity to really get to know them (aside from the often hilarious party banter).

It's just a game that you should take for what it is, dive into it without expectations. If you, like me, were a huge fan of DA:O than it might take a little while to adjust. But it is most definately worth it and I don't think I could easily go back to playing DA:O even though I have completed that game around 4 times. (DA2 I'm working on a 3rd playthrough right now. )

[Yevetha]

I disliked the new Darkspawn graphics. Most of the new human models were an improvement. I didn't like the combat system for mages. hitting A to auto attack every time was not fun.

I really didn't like the Blight in Lothering being the catalyst to launch Hawke's quest. This planted the seed of discontent and so I feel it was immensely important to the game. My problem, is that we've already defeated the Blight. This huge threat that is driving Hawke from his/her home will be defeated even if you don't survive. Yeah, there is more adventure that won't happen, but the galvanizing threat that is supposed to push you and your family to a new, foreign land doesn't feel like a threat. This is a stack contrast to the opening scenes of DA:O where you are immediately put into mortal peril from the blight, royal treachery, or your mage test.

I also didn't care for how the conversation wheel worked. Why put a line on the wheel if your character is going to say something else? Just leave the symbols with a little more clarity and allow the voice actors to take over.

Speaking of the characters...holy causes batman. It felt to me like Varric was the only one not wholly consumed by some cause or another. I feel Isabella would have been a bit better served to be more laid back. So you made the altruistic choice, why can't she write you off as a bit of a romantic instead of thinking you're stupid? Fenris and Anders were both too whiney for my tastes. Ok, I get that you've had a hard life but can't you find some joy or humor in what you have now? Anders was also a bit too regretful to be a serious hard man, also I didn't feel the character was a reasonable evolution of the character we see in Awakening.

I did like a lot of the character banter, though I wish there had been more.

I felt like I didn't have choices to do things that we should have been able to. Killing the priest that misleads you regarding the Qunari mage for instance.

At first I liked the night/day concept. But then there wasn't an aspect of time to the game so it didn't fit quite as well as I expected. Also, going back to the same places over and over...super fail. I can understand having to revisit a major hub of activity like a palace, throne room, market, bar etc. But having to go though the same caves, forests and other 'dungeon' areas for side/minor quests just kills my enthusiasm for the game. Make me come back because I hadn't picked up a quest yet (going back to the mage tower because you didn't have the smuggling quest in DA:O) is fine, but going back to the same place just because...blah. (yes, it is more realistic as caves and forests don't change all that often, but its less fun)  This had the effect of making the game feel artifically small.  In DA:O we travel all over a country and fight an enemy that threatens all civilization.  In DA2 we barely venture outside of this one city.  It just feels less significant.

I did like the story telling interludes. Any way we could get it so we could access those w/o having a save right before them?

Loved Cassandra. Even though you never actually encounter her in game.

I'm still a bit undecided on the appearances of the DA:O characters. I think I'm ok with them, but DA2 felt like such a different game it kind of felt awkward to me to have them come back. Zaveran fits the most, and was pretty awesome.

I was ragingly pissed when I found out mages never got to use the spell from the trailer. The one where Hawke draws the blood symbol on his arm then reaches through the fade to tear the Qunari apart. Yeah, you kind of see your mage do that in some of the cutscenes (killing the ogre), but you never see the whole picture. You never see the whole action. (at least I didn't) That spell/trailer was just so awesome, I WANT IT!!!!

Overall, I had unfairly high expectations for DA2. I told a friend this: If another publisher had put it out, it would probably have been a 7 or 7.5 of 10. But it was Bioware, so it the rating droped to a 5, then you put the Dragon Age title on the box, and the game just drops to a 2 or 3 for me. I love DA:O, I still play it ( on like my 12 or 13th play though, all but 1 of those as a female mage) but I struggle to play DA2 even a second time. 

Modifié par Yevetha, 15 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[alexmasterson123]

"-Codex entries open up dialogue options. You get these entries all the time and they're great for world building and explaining things to the player. But I'd love to see them used in the game itself. So the PC knows about some subject to ask an NPC because they have prior learned knowledge on that subject. It'd be fun in certain circumstances and maybe even really important. But never too important you know?"

Hoooo there, that's an amazing idea.

[SiIencE]

Yevetha wrote...

I was ragingly pissed when I found out mages never got to use the spell from the trailer. The one where Hawke draws the blood symbol on his arm then reaches through the fade to tear the Qunari apart. Yeah, you kind of see your mage do that in some of the cutscenes (killing the ogre), but you never see the whole picture. You never see the whole action. (at least I didn't) That spell/trailer was just so awesome, I WANT IT!!!!

Overall, I had unfairly high expectations for DA2. I told a friend this: If another publisher had put it out, it would probably have been a 7 or 7.5 of 10. But it was Bioware, so it the rating droped to a 5, then you put the Dragon Age title on the box, and the game just drops to a 2 or 3 for me. I love DA:O, I still play it ( on like my 12 or 13th play though, all but 1 of those as a female mage) but I struggle to play DA2 even a second time. 

You don't see it in that much detail but yes it's actually ingame, it's like those 'kill moves' but i think you need like the 'killing blow' and it only shows on ogres i don't recall seeing it anywhere else maybe some arcane horror or revenant but i was to busy to pay attention to that because of all the mobs appearing out of thin air.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But yes i've asked myself the same question, how can a game like DAO have a sequel that lacks almost everything that made DAO the (best) rpg it still is today. 

For me DA2 was my first contact with the series and i never expected to like DAO, so not knowing what DAO was like DA2 seemed ok and i was actually impressed, also the hype around the game made me want to buy it. But after a few hours i noticed how limited/small the world actually was compared to Oblivion which i didn't like (did first portal and got bored). I did play Spellforce 1 and 2 which i liked because of the party you traveled with and not the loner that moved mountains. Later i bought Skyrim and actually enjoyed that also just because i had 1 companion to travel with (and lost quite a few times in my travels).
And having no experience with this game i didn't know what to expect and also clicked on every 'heart shaped icon' there was (getting ninja romanced by Anders..) And at first i didn't really pay attention to the recycling-caves and such. But once i got to know the game better and figured i missed out on Isabela/Sebastian/Fenris i decided another PT and basicly stopped halfway because i had no clue to why i was doing this.

So i decided to call my friend who has a game webshop and order myself DAO-Ultimate Edition after a few hours fiddling about i finally got to play. I mean if you make a game like DAO and then make a game like DA2 everyone in their right mind would know they would be compared and well DA2 is like 1/3rd of DAO in every aspect even as a supposed 'addon' for DAO it still lacks in many many ways.

What i liked about DA2 (after playing DAO):

- Warrior combat, i just couldn't get my head around it in DAO and the AI was always better then me(did get better in Awakening though.
- Rogue combat was better if it didn't have the stupid jumping about.
- Mage felt smoother but a little to 'arcade'.
- Varric, Isabela,Leliana,Nathaniel, Alistair (hearing about Shale) and Seeker.
- Seeing old friends again, Leliana/Zevran/Alistair/Ban Teagan and hearing about Shale butchering pigeons This would probably be the main reason why anyone currently would play DA2...
- Enigma of Kirkwall af first (leading no where).
- The cave you went in for Sebastians personal quest it actually had a DAO feel to it even though it was small.
- Rivalry/Friendship was a nice touch and luckely opening up some new interactions.
- Party banter was actually fun, most fun when 2 picked on 1.
- Voiced Hawke (female sounded better).

What i didn't like about DA2 (After playing DAO):

- The story kinda made no real sense.
So Lothering get's attacked (no really noone saw that comming and decided to gtfo early) and start running with in my case 2 mages + Carver... Bethany gets 'arrested after deeproads/dies/becomes grey warden not to be seen until the very end' and  Carver being a royal pain in the ass either "joining templars/dies/becomes a grey warden" And i can walk around freely? Do whatever i want? I think i could have a sign around my neck 'I'm an Apostate' and noone could care about that because i get 'tolerated'? wtf?
Your mother being used for some gruesome experiment... Sure if the option to save her was there every 'good' person would choose it, but if you are playing an ass you could neglect it (what is another free room right?).

Isabela having stolen the relic and Qunari just sitting around doing nothing (And all looking the same) Isabela comming back eventually with the relic with all nobles around neglecting this was all her fault that the Qunari stayed so long and ended up butchering half the city? Luckely she 'regretted' this *cough*

And not to mention that self righteous chantry and not being able to kill/butcher petrice yourself. And not being able to save ANYONE (except Emile and that dwarf?). Let's not even start about Meredith. I know you endup killing almost everyone you meet but not being able to kill that weirdo Petrice yourself kinda sucked. In DAO the Chantry helped people and stuff, sure they are like every other religious company but still.
Well there's more but you get the point, whoever decided to write this story should get his head checked out and even if DA2 was supposed to be an addon for DAO it missed the boat.

- Choices? Do you have any? Sure you have some influence on some trivial matters like.... (let me think here ) no actually you don't. Everyting ends the same, they could just skip Act 2 and go straight to the end fight in Act 3 because it's inevitable. Hell they could've rented you out to the Deeproads expedition because you get screwed over by what's his name in the end anyways so no 'fair share' except what you found/carry with you. That would be Act 1 for you. Sure in DAO you also have to fight the Archdemon but you atleast have influence along the way how to solve some problems, and what side you take. Who you defend or defy, who you make king, what sides you take.

-Dialogue wheel not really saying what i think it would say, sometimes i was wondering if i clicked the right option. Sometimes making the 'red' option sound more friendlyer then the 'green' option, why the  purple diamond is there noone knows because it sometimes sounds to weird.

-Recycling, i mean in DAO i don't recall ever seeing a similar cave once, sure old 'ruins' could look similar but they were beautiful to look at/explore and BIG! After visiting the same cave 5 times it rather gets dull and sadly you got to visit it another 20 times after that. And everything looked to 'clean' and not so old for ruins.

- The Deeproads, in DAO the deeproads felt massive, huge, looked better and was more fun, 1 'zone' in DAO would probably be able to fit 'all of the deeproads' used in DA2. And for something that 'scary' and 'dangerous' it didn't quite feel dangerous. If all the Deeproads were like that i think i'd have cleared them by now.

- Darkspawn and Enemies, everything looks the same, (Legacy had some different enemies) did i mention recycling? The world is to anonymous in DA2 also they didn't look scary or frightening. Not to mention the 'out of thin air' spawning. There are some mods to make them look scarier but it still aint the same because they all look the same.

- Random appearances, Alistair comming to Kirkland to do what exactly complain? Grey Wardens appearing and leaving.. Zevran popping around the corner for whatever reason. Leliana being there as ?seeker? and at first 'the hero of ferelden will be in Denerim next week' and later 'The Hero of Ferelden dissapeared and now the Champion of Kirkwall also'. Nathaniel in the Deeproads doing whatever and suddenly 'i've travelled deeper into the deeproads then anyone before?!' I guess the Anvil fo the void was next door then, or Shale's home...

- Why the PG13 rating (I'm from holland i mean here we got boobs in random commercials) I'm not saying they must be there but in a sequel you kinda expect the same or better.
The dry humping doesn't feel like a reward for bothering with a romance and all the sh*t that comes with it. There should be a 'gore slider' on 1 side someone gets butchered into little pieces to make a doll, and on the other side having a 2handed final fantasy sword scratches someone.
Where in DAO heads were flying DA2 just has LOADS of blood, i eat my diner watching SAW or some brain surgery on Discovery (just an example). (I've seen enough real world accidents to not be bothered by it anymore).

---- Why o why do i have to kill everyone/everything i come in contact with, sure there are some exceptions but i guess i killed the population of a city. People you WANT to kill you can't kill.. People you could do without can't be ignored and people you want to keep have the grim reaper watching their every turn. Why does everyone turn against you regardless of who you side with if your a mage/rogue/warrior? 

- Companions, sure Varric is intresting, Aveline, Bethany and Isabela  were (for me) but everyone else with their meaningless personal issues and stubbornness. Merril wanting demons at every turn, Sebastian being a Chantry wussy, Carver and his attitude (happy he left), Fenris crucifying mages at every chance and how sad it was for him to be a 'slave' (he actually chose those tattoos) Not to mention Anders who i liked in Awakening and ended up being a depressing idiot on 1 side and making smart remarks on the other.
If i forgot someone that only shows how much they mean to me.

- Companion interaction, In DAO you could talk to eveyrone during a mission, ask what they know about a certain area, in some cases ask for everyones oppinnion, talk to them in camp listen to their background stories and they actually had intresting issues that added something for them not the main "story" arc. And i actually enjoyed hearing their stories in camp, answering their questions and asking them questions. Seeing/hearing their improvement change towards the player really added to the story. Not being able to talk/interact with you LI really takes the fun out of it.

- Companion customisation, why o why can't i equip armor.. that was 1 of my favorite things in DAO, finding those sets and seeing Sten/Oghren walk around in that Legion/Juggernaut/Wade's armor, Alistair in Warden/Cailens armor, Morrigan was fine the way she looked and giving the old Wynne the sexy armor  . Doing quests/exploring/solving puzzles to get the best armor/weapons was FUN! Also not seeing the lightning/fire/frost effects on weapons really sucked. And not being able to actually 'define' a character how you want it except for some runeslots and stuff really....

- No starting origins, my guess is that the 'Hawke family' wasn't the only family that escaped Lothering since i remember talking to alot of people there (in DAO) and receiving letters from some, but taken that DA2 was supposed to be an addon for DAO this is understandable (even though you can choose a orlesian warden in Awakening or start new in Witch Hunt). Still if it were to be released as a DAO addon it would be dissapointing still.

I probably missed some things here and there but you get the point, for me DA2 kinda ruins the experience in DAO at this moment, knowing what comes next. DA2 doesn't deserve to be called DA2 nor would it deserve to be called an addon for DAO. If it were a totally random studios game i dunno 'Hawke's Quest' or 'Kirkwall under fire' it wouldn't do fine either due to the standards set by older RPG's like DAO/Spellforce1/2/Baldurs Gate 1/2 (never played BG only seen someone play it) or todays RPG's like Skyrim/Reckoning. (These i actually played)

[txmn1016]

So I finally sat down and played DA2, and I mostly loved the heck out of it. I loved DAO/A and was ready to rush off and buy DA2, but the fan reception made me think twice about it. I felt like I needed to put some distance between myself and the first game before giving DA2 a chance, and I’m glad I did. DA2 is a much different game. Mostly different in a good way, I think. But it is so shockingly different from DAO/A that playing it immediately after completing the first game would have only been disappointing. After all, the Warden is gone, your previous companions are gone, the dialogue system is vastly different, and the list goes on and on. Comparing the two games (although they are in the same universe) would be doing both an injustice because they are both great on their own. However, if I had been replaying DAO/A in anticipation of playing DA2 upon release, it would be impossible not to make unfair comparisons so the fan reaction is understandable. For that reason, I’m really glad that I waited a ridiculously long time to play this game because I was able to appreciate it on its own terms, and frankly was initially a little miffed about how people could have hated it so much.

Anyway, back to the actual reviewing. I know contributing a review this late in the game seems a little odd, but the good people at BW seemed to be looking for fan feeback for the next DA title so I felt compelled to thank everyone at BW for making an awesome game and provide a brief review of the good, the bad, and the ugly of DA2.

There were a lot of wonderful aspects to DA2 that I felt mostly or entirely improved on some of the clunkier aspects of DAO/A. The first thing that stood out was exploration/major quests. I’m currently playing through DAO again, and I have to say, it’s totally exhausting. The exploration in DAO in my opinion was a little too widespread. This, coupled with the fact that the major quests are so damn long makes for a very tiring experience. DA2 was definitely less expansive, and subsequently less mentally draining and more fun. Despite that being a major criticism of the game, I think it actually worked well in the sense that the story was never lost to me as a player. I was never ripped out of the story telling experience because I was lost in a damn Deep Roads tunnel and couldn’t remember why I was there in the first place. That being said however, the reusing of environments was totally overkill. I know the people at BW have heard this complaint a thousand times, but I wouldn’t be telling the truth if I said that didn’t bother me even a little. So for DA3, I’d like to see something in between DAO and DA2. I don’t want to see a repeat of DAO for the above stated reason. I don’t mind more open world type games, so long as their size doesn’t interfere with the most important part of the game (and this should be especially true of a DA game)—the story.

Another nice thing about DA2 was the (in my opinion) improved dialogue system. Seemingly the most obvious improvement was choosing to give the protagonist a voice. However, the dialogue system in DA2 was superior for many more reasons. When I saw the dialogue wheel I immediately thought “Mass Effect”, and cringed a bit. Little did I know that the middle option, which I assumed was neutral, was actually hilariously sarcastic. That was a very nice surprise. I was also surprised during my second playthrough, that Hawke’s auto-dialogue was different depending on the type of response that you most often give. Maybe I’m easily impressed but I thought that was amazing. I laughed especially hard at Hawke’s little monologue right after Petrice is killed via arrow to the head. All in all, I thought this was a great improvement, and I would be perfectly okay with this system staying essentially as is for DA3.

Another great thing about the game that I think I have to mention was the characters and their development/role in the story. I think that goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway. BW never seems to get it wrong with characters. I eventually loved all of them—which happens in every BW game I play so it shouldn’t have surprised me when it happened again in DA2. The Anders/Justice character story was especially awesome, and I hope to see him/them again or at least see the repercussions of that particular part of the story unfold in DA3.

One major thing that bothered me in DA2 was the combat tactics. I found it to be a little confusing, and spent a lot of excess time just trying to figure out what I was doing. The confusion was only made worse by the fact that the game pamphlet didn’t really explain much of anything. Sure, it explained what certain things were (different modes for example) but didn’t really explain how they’re physically used/how they work/etc. So, the actual combat tactics aspect wasn’t perfect to begin with, but it could have at least been better had there been concise explanations of how their used so I wouldn’t have had to pause the game mid fight to go roving on the internet for an explanation.

Something else that bothered me was the appearance of DAO NPCs. I can imagine characters looking different in different games. In one sense, different graphics equals different looks. In a second sense, from a story telling perspective it has been years so naturally the characters would look a great deal different. So, characters’ looking different from game to game doesn’t necessarily bother me. However, I was pretty disturbed when I saw some of the major NPCs from DAO. The first one I ran into was Leliana, who in all honesty looked really good. I recognized her immediately and was pleased with her appearance in DA2. The second person I saw was Alistair, who didn’t look great. I have to admit I was disappointed with his physical appearance, but I rationalized it using the above mentioned reasons (graphics/time), despite the fact that Leliana still looked totally hot despite these factors. Anyway, Alistair didn’t look great (maybe he was eating too many cakes as king), but it wasn’t so bad as to rip me out of the story. Zevran’s appearance, however, totally blew me away. Nothing could have prepared me for how terrible he would look. I think the biggest problem was that he looked unfinished. So unfinished in fact that he totally lacked eyebrows. Maybe his part in the story was added on at the last minute. Whatever the reason, it was totally distracting and disappointing. So, in the future, if you’re going to include former NPCs in the game, spend as much time on all of them as you did on Leliana.

Finally, the major thing that interfered with me enjoying the game was all the damn bugs. And that’s saying something considering I just played this game last week so the majority of the bugs were already fixed with patches (which I downloaded—playing on Xbox). Some of the bugs I encountered were minor (although still annoying), such as not meeting Nathaniel even though I imported from DAA with him alive. Others were more serious and almost made me stop playing the game. For instance, I encountered a heinously annoying attack speed glitch while playing as a warrior. I picked it up right after downloading Mark of the Assassin and couldn’t shake it for the rest of the game. This subsequently meant that I had to reload every time I encountered it and replay large portions of the game at times. Just really, really annoying. I don’t mind if it takes half a decade for the next DA game to come out—just please don’t release it with so many bugs. It does everyone at BW a disservice when this happens.

And that’s pretty much it as far as my thoughts on DA2 go. Again, I just want to reiterate that I really enjoyed the game, but also say that I hope to see some of the issues I pointed out fixed in the next installment. Thanks to everyone at BW for all their hard work and for letting me take part in such an epic story.