142 réponses à ce sujet

[PurpleJesus]

 This I believe is the real reason for all of the rage.

I would like to prefix this post by saying DA2 may not be a bad game. 

However I feel that the blame for allot of the dissention among one time united
DA fans can be directed at Bioware. 

I believe that the real issue is poor management of expectation. 

In playing the game, and before when evaluating the demo. What I found myself
doing was wondering what game is this?

You see if BioWare had released this game under a different title. Perhaps
"Dark Sword" or some catchy title, which I’m at a loss to come up with.
None of this rampant negativity would exist. 

But the error in judgment was  not in  "Streamlining" or
"Optimizing" or "Enhancing"  it was in
"Changing" the game is so many aspects , that in truth , it bears
little semblance to the Original.

In fact if it didn't say Dragon Age on the box I could easily believe it was
new offering. 

And that is where they failed. 

This new game is not an extension of the original; it is for all purposes a new
game leveraging the title of another game. 

I started thinking if I compiled a list of what is different in this game, it
would exceed what is the same from DAO.

No race options, different combat, different art and animation, missing
classes. Etc.

And that is a problem, when you brand a product, the point of that is to convey
a recognizable experience with a product. 

When I see golden arches I know I can get a burger.  If I see a check mark
swish, good chance I can buy running shoes. And when I see Bioware Dragon age, I
also have expectation based on previous branding, and product experience. 

That experience as branded was a "classic RPG experience" and that is
not what is delivered in this instance. 

It boils down to; Bioware has created expectation among its fans. It has
created a brand, and even further by using terminology like "Spiritual
Successor"  to what was and still is the benchmark title BG  for
RPG fans. They have fostered the expectation of "classic RPG". 

To then offer a game lacking so many features of the original, and then still
try to associate it with the original through title alone, is misleading. 

Bioware in this instance will suffer, not for graphics, or sound track, or combat,
nor story. 

They will suffer from a total mismanagement of customer expectation.



Next time change the title while you are changing everything else ...  and
avoid the backlash of people who feel they were fooled. 

Modifié par PurpleJesus, 09 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[AkiKishi]

Did you type it like that or cut and paste it?

[PurpleJesus]

I wrote it in word , fixed the spacing you posted before i could edit
I also write software , so i tend to treat text like code and well there you go , hope it doesn't hurt the eyes too much , at least i didn't end every line with a ";" 

Modifié par PurpleJesus, 09 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[v_ware]

PurpleJesus wrote...

I wrote it in word , fixed the spacing you posted before i could edit
I also write software , so i tend to treat text like code and well there you go , hope it doesn't hurt the eyes too much , at least i didn't end every line with a ";" 

Using word for posting on a forum. That's hardcore.

And I see your point. Good arguments.

[Gvaz]

The problem is mostly the small devtime spent. Less than 2 years is not a lot of time, so lots of things were streamlined. Notice how the game went gold only a few weeks before release? Notice how Mike Laidlaw said how exhausted the team was? This isn't Bioware's fault, this is EA's fault for wanting more of an investment for less dev time (dao was like +6 years) and it really shows in their product.

[Haexpane]

MS word formatting does not work well with this forum.

[RVNX]

do I agree with every change or decision Bioware made with DA2?

No, I don't.

but after following the game's progress since it's announcement last Summer and now actually playing the game, to me, it still feels very much like Origins........

[bill4747bill]

I would assume that Bioware had to rush the game against their will.

But, regardless, my reaction to the demo was "Wow! Cool Game!" not "darn! not exactly like the previous game"

Can't wait to play it!

[djackson75]

The game went from "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" to "press A and something awesome happens" in less than 2 years. I find that amusing.

[Rune-Chan]

Although I can't slate or praise the game yet, I do agree that a lot of this anger would have been lessened had they not advertised it as a sequel.

Had they advertised it as "Dragon Age: The Champion" and specifically stated that it was a different game set in the Dragon Age universe then a lot of peoples arguments would fall flat.

[Faust1979]

There is nothing wrong with a sequel trying something new. It just sounds like you're mad because they took a few things out. They were trying to tell a certain story and picking from multiple races wouldn't work with the story they wanted to tell. I don't understand why it bothers someone that they can' t be an elf or a dwarf. The art is different because the game is told in flashbacks from a characters point of view that wants to make things larger than life it works for the story

[Shandyr]

Wow I absolutey agree with your OP
Actually I considered opening such a thread as well.

The title "Dragon Age 2" implies it is a sequel.
Yet seen as a sequel I can understand so many complains.
On the other hand I think this game is much fun when seen as a game on its own.

[Captain_Obvious]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Although I can't slate or praise the game yet, I do agree that a lot of this anger would have been lessened had they not advertised it as a sequel.

Had they advertised it as "Dragon Age: The Champion" and specifically stated that it was a different game set in the Dragon Age universe then a lot of peoples arguments would fall flat.

I honestly don't think this would be the case.  Many of the arguments say stuff like "I don't like Bioware's direction" or "EA ruined Bioware" which are not persuasive arguments in and of themselves.  

[aftohsix]

 I think the customers mismanged their expectations.  Bioware was pretty up front with what kind of changes they made to the game and IMO it made the whole experience better.

[Kaeluwen]

I have all the bioware games going back to BG and from playing DA2 I have to agree with the OP in alot of what he says. The game IMO does feel that it was rushed out the door especially when BW Edmonton had usually spent 2-3 years developing their games until recently when they were purchased by EA. In many ways I wish BW could go back being an independent game studio again and get back to their roots as a company that puts out a very good to great game that is replayable years later such as BG/BGII. What I hope for from BW and even EA is too look at Skyrim when it comes out and take the time to get back to making the games that we have always come to enjoy from BW.Its never been about talent or concept with you guys. Heck I would love to see you guys remake Baldurs Gate and update it with the new graphic engines and allow some of the younger people who havent seen it or play the orginals a glimpse at why we hold your games is such high regard.

[AkiKishi]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I honestly don't think this would be the case.  Many of the arguments say stuff like "I don't like Bioware's direction" or "EA ruined Bioware" which are not persuasive arguments in and of themselves.  

Yes but those are irrational. People expecting something that actually resembles DA because it's called DA2 is pretty reasonable.

[RVNX]

from the outset, Bioware has been very clear that DA2 is not a direct sequel where you continue your Warden's story, as you do in the Mass Effect games.

they've also been clear on the revamped art style, combat, etc.

if you had not been following the game's development from day 1, as many of us on the board have, and playing the demo or game was your 1st impression, then I can understand your reaction.

but, for me, DA2 is exactly what was expected based on what Bioware advertised...........

Modifié par RVNX, 09 mars 2011 - 07:42 .

[AkiKishi]

[quote]RVNX wrote...



if you had not been following the game's development from day 1, as many of us on the board have, and played the demo or game, then I can understand your reaction.

[quote]

My reaction came from playing the demo. Only thing that dragged me over here from the ME board.

[FulfilledDeer]

Totally with you OP. Too many incremental changes lost the focus of the game. I tried to articulate this, but you said it best: total mismanagement of customer expectation.

[Armatyr]

its like a bad dream where im being raped by Dalish elves and being told that this is in fact its true successor while sandal yells enchantment? in my face. I think this game is an apostate lock this **** up!

[Faust1979]

so every game in the franchise has to play the exact same way? why can't they change up the gameplay every now and then? I would rather they try and change it up a bit so as to keep it fresh and exciting.

[Sir Caradoc]

I haven't played the full game yet and I doubt that I will for a while. Obviously there is no rush as it seems that Da2 is quite a lot worse than orgins, I'll just wait game of the year edition or something and grab all the dlcs and stuff with lower price.

As for the reviews integrity. I belive majority of them are honest. Some may be childhish rants or biased, but in every review lies a piece of thurth. There is a lesson to be learned. It obviously is that Bioware crossed the line and lost the respect of serious gamers. We'll see how they reach casuals, but I doubt it will be a smash hit like DAO. The core audience are still serious gamers and majority of them feel cheated. Heck even here inside of their inner sanctum I get the feeling that nearly half of the fans feel cheated. Thats not good.

So likely the score 7-8 is on spot. Still I'm not suprised that it gets even lower scores. You will have to keep in mind that quite a lot of gamers don't follow game development as closely as we do here. They likely expected an other game like orgins, but instead they got a game like DA2. So indeed it must feel like a great dissapointment which explains the low user score.

My 2 cents anyhow.

Modifié par Sir Caradoc, 09 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[Armatyr]

no they didnt try something new they just hoped that doing the exact same thing that they did with mass effect 2 would work for dragon age. It doesn't feel personal im not driven theres no grand task or sense of urgency.

[CreativePhobia]

Sadly tend to agree with the OP.

While not totally disappointed, this game reminds me about as much of DA:O as Pool of Radiance reminds me of BG. And at least PoR had a different developer as an excuse.

[Morroian]

PurpleJesus wrote...

In playing the game, and before when evaluating the demo. What I found myself
doing was wondering what game is this?

All the changes (with 1 exception) were flagged well in advance and discussed on here.

PurpleJesus wrote...

But the error in judgment was  not in  "Streamlining" or
"Optimizing" or "Enhancing"  it was in
"Changing" the game is so many aspects , that in truth , it bears
little semblance to the Original.

In fact if it didn't say Dragon Age on the box I could easily believe it was
new offering. 

Disagree, IMHO the game is clearly a Dragon Age game just sped up a little. It feels similar to DAO to me.