273 réponses à ce sujet

[CitizenThom]

If the green money is there...the game isn't half as horrid as the board's critics are making it out to be. The easy explanation, is that many people are under the impression that their taste is 'simply more sophisticated' than everyone else's. That while all of the 'simpletons' are enjoying the game just fine, the critic and their 'super-special' preferences in gaming just cannot stomach the game. Alas, if only game designers were as sophisticated in their tastes, DA2 might have been wonderful.

I haven't even received my copy of the game yet, but based on the general tone and content of the more excited criticisms, that's the impression I'm getting. Sure I'm disappointed that for some reason the SE wasn't ready to roll out on release day, and yes my purchase of the SE proves that I'm just a shill for big-oil, err... Bioware/EA that is, but in all truth, I'm having an extremely hard time believing the game will be even half as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

I think the OP does have one very good point though, and I suspect Bioware and EA have already absorbed it. Even if games are part of a 'franchise' I suspect they'll avoid calling anything a sequel after Mass Effect 3 comes out. They'll sell any new game as 'from the makers of this game you liked' rather than as an actual sequel because people seem to get really attached to things that probably aren't even promised when you call your game a sequel. When you call a game a sequel, somehow people get the impression of some implied promise that the game won't be especially different from the previous game. And of course, when that imagined promise is violated, rage ensues... at least from the people who thought such a promise was implied in the first place. I suspect Bioware and EA, at least their marketing departments, will take all of that into mind when they next decide to extend any existing franchise.

[Daniel Anteron]

Personally this is the way I feel about games or any form of entertainment. If it doesn't hook me in within the first bit of it I'm not having fun. So far I've got a little over ten game play hours into DA2. As of yet the story hasn't really hooked me. Its just a bunch of go here and kill this person, and then go here and kill that thing. It feels like a MMO. Sure the character look cool, but I feel as if I'm Hawke the average day joe running around doing normal tasks with a slight change. I'm not saying I hate it, and I am planning on at least trying to finish it.

I just don't know if I'm really going to enjoy it. Can anyone who has beaten it and enjoyed it tell me the story changes from average day joe to awesome? I'm just confused.

[Sharkey1337]

Basically there's a lot of hate going on as Bioware effectively split the community with DA2. Check out my two polls I put up:
Dragon Age 2: http://www.nowgamer....-dutys-audience

Dragon Age Origins: http://social.biowar...65/polls/16646/

You can see that while Origins was favorable for the vast majority of players, DA2 pissed off a lot of people who loved the original. From the poll it's a clear 50:50 on whether you love or hate DA2. Origins didn't have this problem, that's why it got so many Game of the Year awards and wide praise. DA2 is going to be this year's most disappointing game to a lot of people when it comes to GOTY awards.

[jds1bio]

Sharkey1337 wrote...

You can see that while Origins was favorable for the vast majority of players, DA2 pissed off a lot of people who loved the original. From the poll it's a clear 50:50 on whether you love or hate DA2. Origins didn't have this problem, that's why it got so many Game of the Year awards and wide praise. DA2 is going to be this year's most disappointing game to a lot of people when it comes to GOTY awards.

Yeah, those dubious most disappointing game GOTY awards...and their polar opposite the best game no one played awards.  I hope DA2 doesn't receive either award.

[VanDraegon]

Pugnate wrote...

You can say what you want, but no DA1 and ME2 did not get this reaction.

Once again, yes  they absolutely did. It was rediculous and went on strong for at least a month following release of DA:O. I didnt follow the ME2 forums as much but for the first week it was exactly like this.

Modifié par VanDraegon, 11 mars 2011 - 04:26 .

[jds1bio]

VanDraegon wrote...

Pugnate wrote...

You can say what you want, but no DA1 and ME2 did not get this reaction.

Once again, yes  they absolutely did. It was rediculous and went on strong for at least a month following release of DA:O. I didnt follow the ME2 forums as much but for the first week it was exactly like this.

So do you think it is likely that those who are brutal now after buying Dragon Age II and swearing off Bioware/EA will go out and buy ME3 anyway and be just as brutal?

[CitizenThom]

VanDraegon wrote...

Pugnate wrote...

You can say what you want, but no DA1 and ME2 did not get this reaction.

Once again, yes  they absolutely did. It was rediculous and went on strong for at least a month following release of DA:O. I didnt follow the ME2 forums as much but for the first week it was exactly like this.

I do recall some crankiness with regards to DA:O. I wasn't browsing these boards on release day. because I was playing the game, but sometime within the first week when I visited the boards, there was a bit of crankiness back then too. And to be honest, yes there were glitches, but nothing that at all ruined the game for me. Some people were going on and on about screen tear and graphics and whatever other nitpick they could manage. I don't recall how long it lasted.

jds1bio wrote...

So do you think it is likely that those who are brutal now after buying Dragon Age II and swearing off Bioware/EA will go out and buy ME3 anyway and be just as brutal?

It wouldn't surprise me.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 11 mars 2011 - 06:57 .

[Lele1964]

RedDragynLady wrote...

Well, I think the answer is something a bit more simple.

In short: The ones you see here are the vocal minority. Those who enjoy the game, who have been having fun and have few complaints... are playing the game. Those that don't like it are coming here to complain about it.

I, for example, am very much enjoying my experience. I'm enjoying the story, the characters, even the mechanics. Sure, I'd prefer an auto-attack, but it's not game-breaking for me. It's just different.

Some people want DA:O with just more stuff. This... isn't DA:O. It's similar enough to make me happy... but then, I'm not a hard-core gamer. I'm just a stay at home mom with an Xbox. Not exactly the target audience, anyway.

I'm with you on this.....yeah, it's not DAO, but I'm having a blast playing and I do like the characters and I am learning may way around the new stuff.....I'm playing this for fun.  I miss a few things, but I love some of the new stuff too. 

[Lele1964]

GunClubGirl wrote...

For one thing, people who are dissatisfied are more likely to come on here and voice their opinion than those who are satisfied. That is the case with ANY product or service. Second, a lot of us who like it are more interested in spending our time actually playing the game then on here. I think a lot of people were expecting a game identical to Origins or already had their mind made up that they were going to hate it before they even started playing based on the fact that there are changes. I also think some people have only played the demo (which was bad) and are basing their opinions on that. There certainly is room for improvement but this exaggerrated "hate" doesn't really make sense unless someone hated Origins also and just doesn't like the genre. The games have too much in common to love one and hate the other.

Yes, you are right.  I hated the demo and it was bad, but the actual game play is much better. 

[harazal]

Its a forum negativity cycle. Basically, a forum is a small representation of a game player base. Someone posts that the game is bad, some people respond, they find solace and comfort in each other, and start a **** cycle.

Ignore the forums. I have little time for professional reviews, but they're bastions of wisdom compared to forums.

[Rusky]

I can't really understand where all the hate is coming from to be honest.
I have played the original DA as well as every bioware game since BG and many other cPRG's and I do not feel this game is a letdown.
While it has it's flaws, it is far from a bad game overall.

Let's just look at a few of the things most people that berate the game have brought up:

Combat too "action" oriented and not enough tactics needed / involved in it

I disagree. Combat is only more responsive and better looking the the original, but does not really lack anything that DA:O had. I played on hard so far and there were fights where I had to reload and make use of a proper tactical approach to overcome. Not all fights, mind, but then again why should every single fight have to be a chess game. I expect the harder ones to require thought and planning, but getting jumped by 2 hobos in the street needn't force me to have a 10m perparation speech for my team.

Character customisation is lacking compared to DA:O 

Again, I disagree.
The skills are gone, yes, but most are still there, in a more veiled way (take for example, lockpicking and traps which now relies directly on the cunning stat, pretty much the same thing really ).
The abilities are very nicely done, much better than in DA:O. There's more variety, every ability you pick is actually usefull and it feels like there's more of them (by the end of DA:O I could have had all my abilities with nothing else to pick, doesn't seem to be the same in DA 2).

Personally I'm looking forward to replaying it a couple of times for the character customisation alone.

Oh and armor customisation for my companions ? I like them more with a unique look, plus I can still give them weapons, rings etc, and the armor they have can be upgraded by finding various items or plot related events.

Game is linear and quests are boring and not heroic enough

DA2 is no more linear than DA:O . I don't really think I need to back that statement up with a long essay but it should be clear to anyone who played both. Individual maps are usually pretty linear, and sometimes they're not. Nothing has changed.

In terms of the greater choices one can make, they are still there and it's your choice what to do next. In the end it probably doesn't matter awfully much what order you do stuff in, again, much like in DA: O.

Quests are better in my opinion, even if solely because you no longer just get a large drab list of them from a board somewhere and you actually get a little backstory going with each of them.

The game is too short, some dude finished it in 16h

I have no doubt that is true. Good things always do seem to be too short
That said, there's no way you'll finish this in 16h unless you're rushing through....to get to max level and raiding...oh wait..nevermind.

[jds1bio]

harazal wrote...

Its a forum negativity cycle. Basically, a forum is a small representation of a game player base. Someone posts that the game is bad, some people respond, they find solace and comfort in each other, and start a **** cycle.

Ignore the forums. I have little time for professional reviews, but they're bastions of wisdom compared to forums.

I came on the forums to find out about DirectX11 issues and general impressions.  We've all seen many a forum thread devolve into "you're wrong/no you're wrong" or "sarcastic comment/what did you say? that hurt/I didn't mean for it to hurt I was kidding/oh ok I guess I still like you", but the stuff here on release date was ludicrous.  And include with all the "opinions" were "facts" about the game, many of which are not true, like the Inon Zur thread that's currently going around.

[Taritu]

I've enjoyed the game a great deal, and think it has an excellent story. But in certain key aspects, most definitely including combat, it's a step backwards (there are improvements to the combat system, to be sure, but there are also real problems with it. In particular, I'm sick and tired of both multi spawning waves that appear out of nowhere making a mockery of setting up a rear line and of micro managing battles that virtually turn into twitch battles (like a certain duel, which took forever, micro managing avoiding attacks and a ton of cheese tactics).

I actually think the story is superior, but the combat is cheap as hell, and there's a lot of it, and I'm getting tired of it (in Act III now).

[Taritu]

It's not just a forum negativity issue, and folks need to get that clear. The reviews are coming in considerably lower than DA Origins did. That's not to say it's not a good game, but it's not AS good overall, though it does some things better.

Modifié par Taritu, 11 mars 2011 - 08:31 .

[Romantiq]

Except the ones who were paid.

[jds1bio]

I don't know about reviewers being paid, but people in and surrounding the video game industry seem to be pretty close with each other. I've seen reviews of games where the tone has been more favorable because the reviewer thinks the people in the studio are good people and wants to give them some credit.

I can hang with that, but then with the embargo rules it makes everything seem suspect. Why did Killzone 3 reviews come out two weeks before the release date, yet Dragon Age II (except for PC Gamer UK ??? ) had to be held back to after the morning of release date? Because Dragon Age II is a lengthy game? Or because the Killzone 3 reviews were mostly glowing. I don't know the answer.

[marcbenigni]

ZeoxPT wrote...

Said it once and say it again: I am throughly enjoying the new combat mechanics. They are a very good step in the right direction and actually I like the new mob spawning system. In a combat, you never really know if the enemy has an ace up their sleeve; they can call for reinforcements nearby; the ruckus of the battle can attract their companions... etc. There are plenty of RPG scenarios that can actually back up this system. Plus, it adds an extra layer of strategy: conserving a minimum of strength to deal with a fight longer than you expected. I am thinking of a certain fight against a certain flying reptillian in a certain pit where you can find bones. It dragged on for half an hour or more, but when it ended with my rogue stabbing away said beast's head and emerging victorious, it was incredibly satisfying. And my party couldn't have survived without a decent plan to cope with multiple waves of ever more powerful enemies. This is, obvioulsy, an extreme, but it has paralels in many battles along the game. The idea that the game is not "tactical" anymore is absurd.  ... I enjoy the challenge of having waves of enemies coming left and right, unexpectedly, making me pause and change plans on the fly.

Hey Zeox.  I appreciate what you're saying, especially since this is a real counterpoint to my main concern about the game, as opposed to "shut up you elitist PC geek!"    But I do respectfully disagree.  I just can't see where random spawning in essentially meaningless locations can ever lend itself to proper strategy, unless you allow for trial and error via re-loading, etc.  If I have *absolutely* no clue how many waves of enemies to expect, and they can sometimes spawn literally right on top of my party, then I'm not making tactical decisions in advance, I'm just reacting to random events.  If I've survived 3 waves and the game throws 4, well those are the dice.  It's just hard to connect with, for me anyway.

[Ixalmaris]

jds1bio wrote...

I don't know about reviewers being paid, but people in and surrounding the video game industry seem to be pretty close with each other. I've seen reviews of games where the tone has been more favorable because the reviewer thinks the people in the studio are good people and wants to give them some credit.

Ask yourself how magazines and big websites make money.
Advertising. And who advertises there? THe same people whos product they are going to review.
Deals like " Give it X% and award Y and we buy ad space" are rather common.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 11 mars 2011 - 04:21 .

[LPPrince]

sssfreak wrote...

People hoped DA2 would be better than DAO and its not, its worse. Doesn't make it a bad game just not as good as DAO. This is disappointing to the majority of fans.

This is the core of it. The game is GREAT. But its not AS great as DAO, and that's what has people up in arms.

Plus, folks like me don't like some of the changes, and we've been vocal about it. Not vitriolic, but just vocal.

[Aekero]

The game is pretty solid, but expectations were sky-high and they cut some corners, most likely they expected to be reamed by the hardcore pc community but all that matters is the bottom line.

[Ledshot]

“Have you sold your souls to the EA devil?”

[LPPrince]

I think its something like this-

Mass Effect-Great game.

Mass Effect 2-Removed a lot of what made Mass Effect a great game, but while being not as good a experience, turned out to be a better game.

Dragon Age Origins- Great game.

Dragon Age 2-Removed some of what made Dragon Age Origins a great game, but ended up not being as good a game while the experience is subjective.

Course, thats an opinion, folks.

[Romantiq]

That's just one of 1000 reasons I suppose. Keep in mind that I am running it on Very High with Directx11.



If I wanted to play Minecraft I would have played it instead then.

Modifié par Romantiq, 11 mars 2011 - 04:48 .

[Mithrildream]

1. People don't like change. This isn't DA:O and everyone had somewhat adjusted to Origins. They haven't "moved" on from Origins.

2. People have unrealistic expectations. It's better to not have expectations and to have an open mind when you approach new games and this is a new game. Seriously if you want a game made a certain way then go buy a license and make it yourself or mod it.

3. People just freaking love to complain! Everyone is a critic, everyone has an opinion. At least make them ones that count and don't ruin it for people who are enjoying it.

[Ascorius]

Its dissapointment really. Most people including myself become a lot more vocal if they become dissapointed in something they were looking forward to. Personally I was dissapointed in the game for two reasons mainly: The game feels rushed (reused maps over and over, and a lot of mmo-like quests, go there kill him and 50 mobs), and because its a total turnaround game- mechanics/gameplay wise... its not streamlining its a whole different type of game.

The BG series was the inspiration for DA:O, so I wish they could have streamlined the game like they did with the BG series also. BG1-BG2 is the perfect example of how to take good aspects of a game and make it better, and also get rid of some of the aspects that didnt work that well.

Changing a sequel totally is a weird way of doing things in my opinion. You will probably loose a lot of the original fanbase... you might get a lot of new fans, but why try to even change fanbase with a new product? Why not call the game something completely different? It probably takes more work to create franchise, but that way you avoid lots of negative press from original fans at least. You also avoid running the risk of tanking the franchise completely. As for myself I will not even consider buying DA3 if the game continues on the path DA2 started... but then again the dissapointed customers like myself might be totally outnumbered by new fans of this different direction. Anyways, my point is that people are so brutal because they feel dissapointed or tricked even...