273 réponses à ce sujet

[Paul Sedgmore]

Kulharin wrote...

Same reason Gothic fans ripped apart Arcania: A Gothic Tale which was marketed as Gothic 4 and a sequel to the series.  Because DA:2 is a half-assed sequel that's more of a spin-off meant to appease simple minded console gamers who are 'apparently' too confused by anything other then a linear action games or FPS games.

If this game was marketed as "Rise to Power: A Dragon Age Tale" and marketed as a console spin-off then you probably wouldn't see so much hate from the fanbase.  But this "sequel" is a step back or a de-evolution in almost every aspect you can name; other then perhaps the new combat system.  It's dumbed down, it's story is fragmented, incoherent and less interesting, it is shorter, it is far more of an action game then an rpg, it is no longer tactical or challenging, there is less customization, every game mechanic has been dumbed down, it's envrionments and areas are far less interesting and varied, it's dungeons are incredibly linear, the entire game takes place in one city pretty much and a dull city and ignores the rest of Ferelden...

Haveing not played any of the Gothic games so I can't comment on that but the reaction was the same for Fallout 3 and that is now regarded as a very good game and people are now hating on Fallout New Vegas. As for your comment about console gamers, that can be taken as quite offensive as you are generalising everyone who plays games on console to the minority of console gamers who just happen to be very vocal.

OP the reason is simple: Some people are unhappy with changes to the game over DA:O and are voicing thier opinon (some overly aggressive but that happens) whilst the people who are satisfied with the game do not feel the need to express that fact.

[Arian Dynas]

sssfreak wrote...

Hyrist wrote...

I wanted Bioware to push the envelope of RPGs and they have.

No, no they havn't.

As much as DA2 is a different to DAO. They certainly have not pushed the RPG envelope.<_<

I am so sick of you. Either give a GODDAMN reason WHY for all this sh*t you're spewing or don't voice your opinion at all. I can't complain if you have a good reason as to why you don't like it, in fact, I can respect it. But if all you're going to do is sit around and whine "*sniff sniff* THEY MADE MY FAVORITE GAME SUCK! WAAAAAAH!" then I don't want to hear it out of you. If all you or ANYONE here is going to to is whine, then just stay where you are, be quiet and I am sure someone will be along soon to change your diapers for you.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Ok ok since I'm so popular here I will admit there are flaws with da2 I never mentioned the words perfect or flawless, if you guys don't remember origins was also equally flaw. Also anathemic I never said that insulted me I had the word "start" not started in that sentence. I was just clear up that I had a subjective opinion witch is true don't get me wrong. Also if I'm foolish and you replied too me miss read what I said trying real hard too make me look foolish, in my subjective opinion that's make you look like a fool aswell. But that's my last post some people have jobs and only time too read angry bioware posts for a short window of time.

[Huntress]

rhit90 wrote...

Jam442 wrote...

I had planned to set the game aside until i had finished others,"i had reserved the signature edition"but after reading how watered down the game had become i just returned it.

If and when the tool set is released i may give it another look, but until then i will keep my $60 in my pocket.

Stupidity at its finest right here

^This is what Trolls mean? am I right?

[Steks25]

Well I havent played DA2 yet so I dont know if the game is any good.

But the fact is that Bioware has made a lot of changes, that the majority of DA:O fans dont like, they made these changes to bring in new customers - "casual" gamers.

And since casual gamers dont actually get attached to any games, you wont see them posting on the games forums.

So the forums are populated by a lot of angry fans and a handful of people who like the game.

[88mphSlayer]

because it just came out yesterday?

and because Bioware is one of the most hyped devs in video gaming

[PunchoT]

I personally dislike how fast everything is in the game. Maybe it's just me, but my problem is simply how the game feels. The combat is ok, but it feels half-assed. Your weapon doesn't even entirely go through an enemy, and it clearly feels like it was developed with the console gamers in mind, and a big, triple-knuckled middle finger flipped up to computer gamers. I don't see why Bioware hasn't recycled the way combat was in Knights of the Old Republic for use in other games, as depicted here about halfway through the video. Now it may be because that was one of the first Bioware games I had ever played, but the combat felt both satisfying interesting.

[Anathemic]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Ok ok since I'm so popular here I will admit there are flaws with da2 I never mentioned the words perfect or flawless, if you guys don't remember origins was also equally flaw. Also anathemic I never said that insulted me I had the word "start" not started in that sentence. I was just clear up that I had a subjective opinion witch is true don't get me wrong. Also if I'm foolish and you replied too me miss read what I said trying real hard too make me look foolish, in my subjective opinion that's make you look like a fool aswell. But that's my last post some people have jobs and only time too read angry bioware posts for a short window of time.

I misread? It seems you have misread good sir, I never stated that you were insulted. And as I've stated in my first post replying to you, there's nothing wrong with an opinion being subjective, however there is a way when your masking this behind arrogance and ignorance. I bring up the quote from you that I've first replied to:

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

There is no rational way
too explain the trolling criticism. I call it trolling because of the
quanity of hate posts. There's nothing wrong with the game origins
wasn't that great If you compare the 2. Im having trouble understanding
why people miss the redundant combat that made me fall asleep in heavy
fighting on two occasions. Or the dialogue where your charater
telepathically communicates too other upcs with practically no facial
expression, your practically tranquil. Complain all ya want seamless
improvements were made. And if you want too sum the reason in a nut
shell, people are afraid of change, good or bad most will protest
against any kind of change in anything they like or do in life.

Pay attention to the bolded part. The part where it is not underlined shows the opinion being ignorant, as in you "dont understand why people... yadayadayada" if you don't understand then how about attempt to understand instead of complaining that you don't?

Now look at the underlined part, that's the area where your arrogance shows. You state that people are afraid of change and incite to provoke us telling us to "complain all we want." Hardly productive...

Now on to the next post on dealing with subjective equating to insult

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

If people start insulting my post and calling

Me subjective I think I'm saying something right, I've been a bioware
fan for almost 2 years and seeing a barrage of trolling, Spiteful, and
just stupid anger with all there games is entertaining at best
considering how unique there games really are. I don't blaming them for
changing things in da2 if they kept almost everything the same you'd
have people being angry about that. With some of you spiteful guts/ gals
on here who need enemys? Bioware just has realized that they wont make
everyone happy.

Pay attetion to the bolded part. You've stated "If people start insulting my post and calling me subjective..." now hold on a minute you brought up the scenario that people are insulting your post then you've used the conjugation 'and' to equate the term 'subjective' to that post.

Now again, will you please stop facading and reply to the question: when does calling someone subjective equate to insult?

[jds1bio]

There are some posts out there saying "I like this game so far." So whether we agree with them or not, lets remember to keep it civil and not lose our cool over anonymously-posted comments.

Some of the less popular features of DA2 have been the location (only one city) and the revisiting of similar caves/maps a la Mass Effect. To that I would say: yes the similar cave/map thing wasn't great in Mass Effect either, but the Witcher (which I thought was great) took place in one city also, and had caves that you needed to revisit (certain sections would open at specific points). I still thoroughly enjoyed my 50 hours in that game.

[jds1bio]

@Anathemic, please don't hijack the thread, Orlesian can answer you in another post, thanks.

[Anathemic]

jds1bio wrote...

@Anathemic, please don't hijack the thread, Orlesian can answer you in another post, thanks.

Not hijacking, jsut demanding an answer. Orlesian has been evading my question in every post and hasn't answered it thus far.

[jds1bio]

@PunchoT, I liked the command queuing in KOTOR too, but I think almost eight years later the public in general wants (and is used to) faster-paced interactions. Still, my playthroughs of DAO had lots of time in pause issuing commands, with no loss of fun.

[Drogo45]

Most of the strong, mindless haters are either hired by other game companies (a very common practice) or are all accounts of Sarah Palin and Glen Beck.

[Drogo45]

Most of the strong, mindless haters are either hired by other game companies (a very common practice) or are all accounts of Sarah Palin and Glen Beck.

[patocerda]

Because haters hate, they just make an account to bash everything and claim they're RPG elites and BioWare true fans and what not... really, I just find that they are making stupid comments, and they are possibly stupid too.

[Marc999]

Hyrist, if you don't like the opinions of others, don't read them. You seem to have a great disdain for those who's views differ from your own. Go ahead and read your post again; you're coming off as a very bitter person. I rarely use forums, but when I do, I don't go off on a tangent like yourself.

Now regarding this game, I'll be waiting for a price drop.  Why? The game is $10 more than its predecessor with less content and the extra content that is provided is via paid dlc available immediately.  I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere but that speaks volumes to me.  Oh, and demos are supposed to be impressive right, convince me to enjoy/purchase the game?  The demo. did not impress me,  graphics in the outdoor environments were toned down, over exaggerated combat and darkspawn that looked like comedians.  Once again, a demo is supposed to impress me, make a sale.  Far from it.  Yet, this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.   Forums aren't meant just for glowing positive opinions, but opinions of all kinds.

Perhaps these are some of the reasons "Why have the forums been so brutal regarding Dragon Age II"  There are positive remarks too, plenty of both. 

Modifié par Marc999, 10 mars 2011 - 12:45 .

[randallman]

We don't dislike change... We just dislike THIS change.

"They" did the same basic thing to Civilization V.  Take away detail in favor of 'streamlining' the experience.  What "they" failed to realize was that Civilization's core fanbase are a bunch of number crunching, micromanaging, nitnoid propellerheads (like myself...)

To a certain extent, the COMPUTER RPG fans are very similar.  We like micromanaging inventory and attributes and modifiers on gear... and swapping out gear A for gear B for a certain encounter cause we need better resistances or better attack or whatever...  And we enjoy doing the same for our 'henchmen/companions'.

The format of cRPGs has followed loose guidelines since day one... Very 'D & D' like, attributes, gear, mana, leveling, etc..  And while some of that has been retained with DA2, it's just getting further and further from the old Pen and Paper RPGs that games like Temple of Elemental Evil, Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Bards Tale series, Ultima IV+, NWN 1&2, and even games like KotOR/KotOR 2 were.  Certainly, it *feels* more 'hack and slash' than DA:O/DA:A...

We can blame consoles partly... surely the fact that games are made for 'simpler' gaming systems and then backported to PCs has some bearing on this situation...  I wouldn't go so far as to say that the console gamer is any 'dumber', but to a certain extent I do feel like the average console gamer just doesn't want to micromanage their characters or gaming experience as much as the average PC gamer.

At the end of the day, I'd be happy if they just kept making expansions for NWN2...  I enjoy the D&D ruleset and the graphics werent abysmal... certainly not up to today's standards, but biddable nonetheless.

But we should all admit, DA2 is not really the spiritual successor of DA:O/DA:A...

Kemmer wrote...

Someone elsewhere on the forums summed it best with something along the lines of:

"Old stuff is awesome. New stuff isn't old stuff."

Plus, as someone else mentioned, anonymity really brings out the negativity in some people. Myself, I'm really enjoying this game and feel that it's well worth the money. It's pulled me away from MMOs for the time being, which is no small feat .

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Haha this is funny and your replies are thought but way too well I almost feel like I'm arguing with someone very young or very old, I separated the insulting part from the subjective, I was just correcting myself from what you said too get a rise out a girl that derails the topic of the thread too make herself look politically correct infront of other readers. I said seamless improvements and added later that there were flaws too the game aswell. Get over yourself you call me subjective? Ha it's soo true I'll admit been like this my entire life. Just remember your just as much subjective as I am.

[Anathemic]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Haha this is funny and your replies are thought but way too well I almost feel like I'm arguing with someone very young or very old, I separated the insulting part from the subjective, I was just correcting myself from what you said too get a rise out a girl that derails the topic of the thread too make herself look politically correct infront of other readers. I said seamless improvements and added later that there were flaws too the game aswell. Get over yourself you call me subjective? Ha it's soo true I'll admit been like this my entire life. Just remember your just as much subjective as I am.

I like how you completely diregard the main points of my post <_<

And when the hell did your correct yourself? Not in this post

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Ok ok since I'm so
popular here I will admit there are flaws with da2 I never mentioned the
words perfect or flawless, if you guys don't remember origins was also
equally flaw. Also anathemic I never said that insulted me I had the
word "start" not started in that sentence. I was just clear up that I
had a subjective opinion witch is true don't get me wrong. Also if I'm
foolish and you replied too me miss read what I said trying real hard
too make me look foolish, in my subjective opinion that's make you look
like a fool aswell. But that's my last post some people have jobs and
only time too read angry bioware posts for a short window of
time.

"I never said that insulted me I had hte worst "start" not started in that sentence"

Wtf does that even mean, are you grammaticaly challenged?

Anyways you still didn't answer my question:

When did calling someone subjective equate to insult?

Note: Please answer the question

[Paul Sedgmore]

randallman wrote...

We don't dislike change... We just dislike THIS change.

"They" did the same basic thing to Civilization V.  Take away detail in favor of 'streamlining' the experience.  What "they" failed to realize was that Civilization's core fanbase are a bunch of number crunching, micromanaging, nitnoid propellerheads (like myself...)

To a certain extent, the COMPUTER RPG fans are very similar.  We like micromanaging inventory and attributes and modifiers on gear... and swapping out gear A for gear B for a certain encounter cause we need better resistances or better attack or whatever...  And we enjoy doing the same for our 'henchmen/companions'.

The format of cRPGs has followed loose guidelines since day one... Very 'D & D' like, attributes, gear, mana, leveling, etc..  And while some of that has been retained with DA2, it's just getting further and further from the old Pen and Paper RPGs that games like Temple of Elemental Evil, Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Bards Tale series, Ultima IV+, NWN 1&2, and even games like KotOR/KotOR 2 were.  Certainly, it *feels* more 'hack and slash' than DA:O/DA:A...

We can blame consoles partly... surely the fact that games are made for 'simpler' gaming systems and then backported to PCs has some bearing on this situation...  I wouldn't go so far as to say that the console gamer is any 'dumber', but to a certain extent I do feel like the average console gamer just doesn't want to micromanage their characters or gaming experience as much as the average PC gamer.

At the end of the day, I'd be happy if they just kept making expansions for NWN2...  I enjoy the D&D ruleset and the graphics werent abysmal... certainly not up to today's standards, but biddable nonetheless.

But we should all admit, DA2 is not really the spiritual successor of DA:O/DA:A...

Kemmer wrote...

Someone elsewhere on the forums summed it best with something along the lines of:

"Old stuff is awesome. New stuff isn't old stuff."

Plus, as someone else mentioned, anonymity really brings out the negativity in some people. Myself, I'm really enjoying this game and feel that it's well worth the money. It's pulled me away from MMOs for the time being, which is no small feat .

I agree to what you are saying about the slimming down for consoles, the problem is it is getting hard for developers to support the high budgets required for AAA titles on the PC and as such are looking more towards the console market to help. As for the bolded statement, even Bioware have said that this isn't a sequal to DA:O just set in the same world, naming it DA2 does give the wrong impression though.

[jds1bio]

@randallman and by calling DA2 Dragon Age II, they kind of implied that it had a job to do once it was released, which was to either sell more based on the name Dragon Age, or carry on the line from its predecessor, or both. It seems that DA2 is in reality doing quite a bit of both, but in people's minds not one or the other to complete satisfaction.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Like I said, too get a rise out of a girl that likes too look politically correct in front of other readers, also I'll get right on fixing my grammar, oh wait I typed all this on my iPhone that doesn't have Microsoft word, owell oh and for Christ sakes I used your word "subjective" not too claim it as an insult but "when people start telling me I have a "one way"opinion" that I'm doing something right. I never said or claimed being called subjective as an insult I was more or less mocking you while making a statement.

[Nefastusamator]

Only question I have is the negativity merited or is it like the debate I just read about subjective and insult? While I am personally waiting to see if they update/release the toolset, if they don't I will probably grab a console version, I want to know if the story is worthwhile.

I can get past recycled dungeons, less inventory options, and all that if the story is still what drives the game. I read one post where the op said the story felt like a jumbled mess of quests that dont really relate to one another.

And you left out a very large group of pc gamers randallman, those who like to create content and use other users created content. Thats the real reason I prefer PC over console, though I do hate when a game is 'streamlined' from one genre(RPG) to another(Action), simply to make it easier to have on consoles. I hope that isn't the case with DA2, and it doesn't sound like the changes were all that drastic, but if the story is compelling I would still consider a worthwhile game. So....is it?

[QuentStormborn]

patocerda wrote...

Because haters hate, they just make an account to bash everything and claim they're RPG elites and BioWare true fans and what not... really, I just find that they are making stupid comments, and they are possibly stupid too.

Ah, the 'if you don't agree with me you are stupid' attitude.  Who died and make you king?

I've enjoyed the game so far, not that far into it.  That being said, I don't think its an improvement on DA:O, just like I didn't think ME2 was an improvement on the first in terms of being an RPG.  The problem is Bioware markets the game as an RPG, but then cuts customization, story, character development all in the name of making things more 'streamlined' and accessible.  In reality all it does is make the game play more like an action game with some watered down RPG elements. 

[randallman]

jds1bio wrote...

@randallman and by calling DA2 Dragon Age II, they kind of implied that it had a job to do once it was released, which was to either sell more based on the name Dragon Age, or carry on the line from its predecessor, or both. It seems that DA2 is in reality doing quite a bit of both, but in people's minds not one or the other to complete satisfaction.

Now that I think about it, DA2 reminds me more of Dungeon Siege than DA:O...

I should probably have read more reviews, but I pre-ordered it and assumed that it would have been the spiritual successor to DA:O/DA:A.  I suppose 'shame on me'.

Unfortunately, I think that 'we the computer gamers of the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s' are forsaken...  Money talks, and the masses just plain old dont want another NWN2 style game.  HOWEVER, I do not understand why they made PC-specific changes in DA:O, but apparently not in DA2.

I still remember the first time I played Pool of Radiance - the depth to those games, even with 1mhz of 8bit awesomeness on the C=64 was quite enthralling...