77 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Elves are also reviled by humans according to the lore: and your harsh reaction shows this goal was accomplished in spades.

No, his reaction is opposite to what the elves are supposed to make people feel. It is said they're found pleasing to the eye, to the point people like to hire them as servants.

If they're reviled, then according to the game itself it'd be despite their looks, not because of them. People are perfectly capable of hating the pretty, just see how many easily despise models, actors and other celebrities.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Yes, a lot of people download appearance mods and in a few cases there were even improvements. An appeal to popularity doesn't prove the truth of a statement, though, but rather only how widespread the belief is. The fundamental argument I was trying to make is that their appearance has NOTHING to do with whether they're tough or proud, and thinking so is completely superficial in every since of the term.

Dislike their appearance all you like. I'm not saying you have to agree. If you think they're too thin or their eyes are too large, fine, that's your personal preference. Saying that being thin and having large eyes means one cannot be fierce is just silly, though.

edit: tmp: That was a bad attempt at humor. Suffice it to say, though, that standards of beauty are subjective: what was attractive in the 12th century is not necessarily so in the 21st. What was that caption they had on top of the concept art for DA2, showing the different racial physionomy? Ah, yes, differing standards of beauty.

How about that.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 11 mars 2011 - 12:04 .

[Sabariel]

Elves are just plain freaky now, especially the females who have balloon heads. Creepy...

[cljqnsnyc]

LOL Superficial? Really? What video game isn't superficial? How would you feel if there wasn't a CC? People already had a hissy fit because they took away races. Like it or not, appearance matters. The question your asking, I think is how much?  If DOA had these elves instead would that sway wether or not I'd sympathize with their plight? Not at all.  But that isn't my point. I simply hate the new design...not the elves themselves. This Navi/Romulan look ain't cuttin' it for me...that's all. 

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 11 mars 2011 - 12:29 .

[tmp7704]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

edit: tmp: That was a bad attempt at humor. Suffice it to say, though, that standards of beauty are subjective: what was attractive in the 12th century is not necessarily so in the 21st. What was that caption they had on top of the concept art for DA2, showing the different racial physionomy? Ah, yes, differing standards of beauty.

How about that.

Uhmm, i'm not sure if this is supposed to be attempt at humour as well?   Because you have to admit that otherwise it's quite a stretch that requires one to actively ignore what their own senses tell them, and lot of goodwill... while practically whole rest of the game follows our own, modern concepts of aesthetics. Which combines just doesn't make much sense.

Modifié par tmp7704, 11 mars 2011 - 12:26 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

So I took a jaunt over to the Dalish to take another look, and I suppose the "balloon head" comment is apt--the Dalish women are disconcertingly disproportionate. I'm still not convinced that this is entirely a bad thing; they look a bit like aliens, and that's a good thing. The dwarfs, qunari, and elves should have different proportions from humans.

tmp: It's only half-joking. But really, willing suspension of disbelief is helpful. To borrow an analogy, you might consider the game in an uncanny valley between medievalized morality and modern sensibilities. It's a little inconsistent on those regards. You're right that in many ways the game does follow modern trends: Isabella's design is an obvious attempt to appeal to that, as was Morrigan in the last game.

But I guess the difference has to lie with the fact that the different races (more like subspecies, really) ought to look different, and they might well have different standards of beauty. Yes, elves are supposed to be beautiful to humans too, but I definitely don't want them all looking essentially like beautiful humans with pointy ears (there's enough LOTR in these games as it is).

I guess it's not useful for me to go on and on about how I'm okay with it, though. I guess a better question (especially for the modding forum) is how you all would prefer they looked?

How SHOULD the elves look?

[cljqnsnyc]

My senses tell me to invite all of the elves in Kirkwall over for a nice 12 course meal! Maybe I could invite the local surgeon as well? Hmmm...there's a thought. Maybe start them on some bench pressing and leg lifts? But POSITIVELY, ABSOLUTELY, NO CARDIO!!!!!!!  How should the elves look? How should Hawke look? Answer: anyway YOU want them too. MODS PLEASE!!

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 11 mars 2011 - 12:42 .

[TerribleTruth]

Love the new look. The "human with pointy ears" elf design is overdone.

[tmp7704]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

But I guess the difference has to lie with the fact that the different races (more like subspecies, really) ought to look different, and they might well have different standards of beauty. Yes, elves are supposed to be beautiful to humans too, but I definitely don't want them all looking essentially like beautiful humans with pointy ears (there's enough LOTR in these games as it is).

Playing the devil's advocate for a bit, i have to question why there's this seemingly selective reaction about elves looking like "pretty humans with pointy ears" when at the same time there's no real complaints that qunari look like large humans with horns, the dwarves look like short stocky humans, desire demons look like humans with tails, etc.

But that aside, there's lot of possible variations when it comes both to body proportions and face features which still manage to remain pleasing to our eyes despite being way different from our own. Comics and cartoons are good source to check when it comes to these, since they can experiment in this area quite freely and have been doing it for decades now.

Modifié par tmp7704, 11 mars 2011 - 01:08 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

The horns are one of my problems with the qunari redesign, though at least they look a bit like giants now. As for dwarves: short pudgy humanoid is at least close enough to what we'd expect, although certainly creativity on the level of The Elder Scrolls would be interesting; their dwarves were very, very different.

As far as desire demons: that's easy, they want to look attractive to humans.

I suppose the reasons elves get so much attention is because elves are popular. At any rate, certainly, there are different ways of making them look dissimilar to humans. Is DA2's the best way? Maybe not--but I do still think it's an improvement over DA:O.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The new look of the elves is uh....mmmm, terrible. There was nothing wrong with the elves in the first game. They don't look desirable to me in the game now. According to the lore of the game they are susposed to be desired for their beauty. I can't stand the look of them now. Why they choose this art direction is beyond me with the elves. They didn't do too hot with the returning companions either. IMHO...this game is not polished.

[Xaielao]

I agree they are 'very' different and not better. I can see the look of the city elves being a little more frail looking but those long flat ears are a bit much. And Fenris. When ever I see him I think 'well you just stepped out of Lineage 2 didn't you.

[Cyanide Disaster]

I enjoy the new elves, even if they look a tad Na'vi-ish. They have an 'alien' feeling about them, now that whole "alienage" makes sense, eh?

[Chromie]

Merriel is just adorable!!!

[android654]

They look leaps and bounds better than in dao. There they simply looked like children with pointy ears, now they look like a different class of people.

[Nassegris]

It's funny because I generally love more slender body builds - can't stand the big buff guys and the buxom girls, just annoys me I guess... but the bodies of the elves look a little bit too thin for me. On the verge of sickly, and it doesn't come across as very attractive at all in my eyes.

I love the idea they had with the facial features, in fact it reminds me of a painting I used to love - but you can have a flat nose bridge like that and couple it with attractive features that create a sensual result rather than cross-eyed in the manner of siamese cats. I REALLY like what Fenris looks like because his face is less narrow, but pretty much every other elf in the game looks freakish. I actually snickered at that guy that people supposedly pay to boink - who'd pay to sleep with that? His eyes looked like they were about to pop out of his head.

So - big kudos for initiative and an idea of making elves look more alien, but they should have been lean rather than thin, and their faces should be a bit wider if the eyes are supposed to be that big. Also, I wish Fenris's calves weren't thinner than his thighs :/ 

[borelocin]

I thought DA:O elves were just underfed humans with plastic ears. DA2 elves actually look like a related but separate species.

[darkrose]

I would love a mod to replace at least some of the elf models with the DAO verions.

I hate the new elf models, with the exception of Fenris, who he looks more human than any of the other elves.They've gone from being thin to emaciated with little stick arms and oversized heads. The female elves in DA2 look disturbingly child-like--except for the disproportionally large boobs--making Maric's elf fetish is even creepier in retrospect

If you're trying to tell me that humans find elves incredibly attractive, then it just doesn't work for me if they look like the love children of Na'vi and house elves.

[KuramaBingyi09]

I personally think the new models for the elves are more fitting for the race. The only difference there was between the DA:O Humans and the DA:O Elves were that the Elves had the ears. The DA2 elves seem more refined and more Elf-like than the Origins Elves did. Their facial structure suggests that they were influenced by the Na'vi design from Avatar - but why should this be a bad thing?

If there's anything to complain about, it's Fenris. He looks like a pretty bad J-RPG character.

[Kendaric Varkellen]

I hate the new elves with a passion. Something that looks like crossbreeding an anorexic Na'vi with a donkey isn't even close to what I imagine elves to look. Yes, they looked too human in DA:O, but it was still a lot better than what DA2 did.
If their ears were set higher, their eyes made smaller and their noses changed slightly, they'd look a lot better. Actually, Keeper Marethari looked rather ok but the majority of the elves were just monstrous.

[Cambios]

Yeah, the elves in DA2 made me want to vomit. They looked horrible.

[Reiella]

I personally like the new look.  Nice bit of distance from the old pop style of having any alien species be simply humans with certain make-up elements.

[tmp7704]

Reiella wrote...

I personally like the new look.  Nice bit of distance from the old pop style of having any alien species be simply humans with certain make-up elements.

Except they're anorectic humans with floppy ears and patched nasal bone...

[svendigo]

I like the alien-like elves. I'm sick and tired of elves being uninspired equivalents of pretty lean humans.

[Reiella]

tmp7704 wrote...

Reiella wrote...

I personally like the new look.  Nice bit of distance from the old pop style of having any alien species be simply humans with certain make-up elements.

Except they're anorectic humans with floppy ears and patched nasal bone...

I guess I should have added the disclaimer that I have no interest in arguing my subjective opinion.