120 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

double post

Modifié par Savber100, 10 mars 2011 - 08:47 .

[Savber100]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

But what will make or brake Bioware is their MMORPG. If it is success, we might not see any other single player RPG from Bioware in looong time as they may turn into a MMORPG only company. If it fails though, i suspect Bioware will seize to exist.

Yeah... makes me wonder whether the rush of sequels with DAII and ME3 being released barely a year and a half is due because of SW:TOR.

Maybe this isn't EA's fault after all. Bioware is prepping up high gear by totally throwing herself into the MMORPG market. But first, they have to quickly wrap all their franchises before the leap.

Gods... THAT better not be true.

Modifié par Savber100, 10 mars 2011 - 08:47 .

[RohanD]

Come on the review is clearly not fully serious. He's using comedy to illustrate a point. I read it, agreed with a lot of it, and had a good chuckle at the end.

[Aspar_Hruk]

Don't know if you have read the blog of one of the employees at Bioware working on the SWTOR. It was a storm on the net couple of months ago. If it is true or not, we may only see in the future, but he uses a lot of names of real persons involved in the producing process of the game and the picture he draws looks more like a disaster to happen. Besides it got an official response from EA so it wasn't without merrit i think.
Could be a flame from a fired worker or whatnot, but he mentioned 300 million dev costs and still nowhere near a complete competetive product.
Could be a lie, could be truth, but somehow i can't help but connect the heavy drop in quality in DA2 with troubles in the studio, lack of resources given to other teams, rushed releases, in order to collect on money as soon as possible, or to reorient ppl to the MMORPG project...
And so on.
So if SWTOR fails it is very possible Bioware will fail with it and be disbanded, It's just EA has put a lot into this game as it seems. They are big enough to want their own "WoW" and the failure may be heavy.

Modifié par Aspar_Hruk, 10 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[HTTP 404]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

Don't know if you have read the blog of one of the employees at Bioware working on the SWTOR. It was a storm on the net couple of months ago. If it is true or not, we may only see in the future, but he uses a lot of names for real persons involved in the producing process of the game and the picture he draws looks more like a disaster to happen.
Could be a flame from a fired worker or whatnot, but he mentioned 300 million dev costs and still nowhere near a competetive product.
Could be a lie, could be truth, but somehow i can't help but connect the heavy drop in quality in DA2 with troubles in the studio, lack of resources on given to other teams, rushed releases, in order to collect on money as soon as possible, or to reorient ppl to the MMORPG project...
And so on.
So if SWTOR fails it is very possible Bioware will fail with it and be disbanded, It's just EA has put a lot into this game as it seems. They are big enough to want their won "WoW" and the failure may be heavy.

yeah looks like we lost Drew Karpyshian(sp?) to Star Wars project and in my opinion that affected Mass Effect 2 story a bit. who knows who else got allocated.  kinda a shame really this mmo.  Seems cool and all but its hard not to think it doesnt affect the rest of the company.  BTW, if you check out the Old republic site, its a monster game, so much spoken dialog enough to swallow all dialog in the last 5 years of bioware games.

[Ravenmyste]

Sparafucil wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Sparafucil wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

Sparafucil wrote...

That's the impression I'm getting from reading many of the first-hand responses on here and elsewhere. The latest review posted on VGS offers a counter-point to the often sycophantic and rose-tinted assessments written by many professional reviewers (who I suspect are in the pocket of EA):

www.videogamessuck.com/review437.html

I can't recall any previous Bioware game receiving such a polarizing reaction from the community. For the next DA installment, I only hope the devs learn from this experience and go back to the drawing board to look at what made DA:O such a phenomenally successful RPG.

That website is a joke. 0/10 is an absurd score, and the writer was probably 12.

No less absurd than the perfect 100 score The Escapist gave it. 

In this age of score inflation where every game gets 9/10 or 10/10s, 8/10 is considered average, and anything less than 7/10 poor, its refreshing to see a score based on a grade scale that aligns more or less along a normal distribution. If a game is terrible (and clearly the reviewer thinks it is) why shouldn't it get a 0? Anyway the score is the least important part of a review and I wish people would stop attaching so much meaning to it.

Lets see here... Almost perfect ranking for the previous DA? check
Calling DAO story "perfect?" Check.
Give DA2 a terrible score. (Beyond terrible. A freaking 0.) check

Look not liking DA2 is great. But a 0 out of ten? That not only ignore the several GOOD things the game has brought about, but absolutely tramples their credibiliity down to simple fanboyism. The score is important in this instance, as it was set to send a message by VGS. No game deserves a 0/10. Why? Because that means its not even a game!

DA2 and Bioware are not immune to criticism. This isn't criticism though, not even close.

I've only played the demo, so I can't comment on the final game, but there was absolutely nothing in the demo that I saw that was the slightest bit an improvement on DA:O. Perhaps the demo was merely a weird anomaly. 

What do you think is good about DA2?

please leave if you have no idea beyind the demo there MORE to the game then just the first 15 mins...

[Aspar_Hruk]

HTTP 404 wrote...

yeah looks like we lost Drew Karpyshian(sp?) to Star Wars project and in my opinion that affected Mass Effect 2 story a bit. who knows who else got allocated.  kinda a shame really this mmo.  Seems cool and all but its hard not to think it doesnt affect the rest of the company.  BTW, if you check out the Old republic site, its a monster game, so much spoken dialog enough to swallow all dialog in the last 5 years of bioware games.

Yeah, and maybe that connects correctly to what he said around the "...300 million spend and most of it on voice and dialogs"...which would be disastrous, though it's hard to believe it. Blizzard spent around 60 mil for Vanila WoW  till release andthey have reaped bellions since then. EA now wants share of the pie and pays big, but if it fails heads will be rolling and studios will vaporize.

Modifié par Aspar_Hruk, 10 mars 2011 - 09:04 .

[MorseDenizen]

Blimey after reading that review I'm swimming in bile... looks more like a hate post against bioware and pc game than anything else, I don't think I read a single sentence with any info regarding the game.... enough with the OMG, This GAME SUCKS! CONSOLE USERS ARE IDIOTS!!!! etc etc... I was a pc gamer before I got consoles and I still am I don't see what this war is about, honestly. Anyway the review could do with some objectivity methinks, a lot of what he was ranting about was also present in DA:O, just a point to consider.

[HTTP 404]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

yeah looks like we lost Drew Karpyshian(sp?) to Star Wars project and in my opinion that affected Mass Effect 2 story a bit. who knows who else got allocated.  kinda a shame really this mmo.  Seems cool and all but its hard not to think it doesnt affect the rest of the company.  BTW, if you check out the Old republic site, its a monster game, so much spoken dialog enough to swallow all dialog in the last 5 years of bioware games.

Yeah, and maybe that connects correctly to what he said around the "...300 million spend and 80% of them on voice and dialogs"...which would be disastrous, though it's hard to believe it. Blizzard spent around 60 mil for Vanila WoW  till release andthey have reaped bellions since then. EA now wants share of the pie and pays big, but if it fails heads will be rolling and studios will vaporize.

lets hope not, if the mmo flops and ME3 and DA2 sell well, then maybe we can get our small naive yet inspired bioware back when EA downsizes them but still fully supports their smaller IPs.

[kshocker]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

Don't know if you have read the blog of one of the employees at Bioware working on the SWTOR. It was a storm on the net couple of months ago. If it is true or not, we may only see in the future, but he uses a lot of names of real persons involved in the producing process of the game and the picture he draws looks more like a disaster to happen. Besides it got an official response from EA so it wasn't without merrit i think.
Could be a flame from a fired worker or whatnot, but he mentioned 300 million dev costs and still nowhere near a complete competetive product.
Could be a lie, could be truth, but somehow i can't help but connect the heavy drop in quality in DA2 with troubles in the studio, lack of resources given to other teams, rushed releases, in order to collect on money as soon as possible, or to reorient ppl to the MMORPG project...
And so on.
So if SWTOR fails it is very possible Bioware will fail with it and be disbanded, It's just EA has put a lot into this game as it seems. They are big enough to want their own "WoW" and the failure may be heavy.

Oh yes... EA Louse or whatever... Really top notch stuff... 300 million to produce... people panicking about it... utter bull... the company reported it'd be profitable with around half a million suscribers... so based on Louse each person is going to pay $600 for this new MMO in the first year.

Speculation on a game that hasn't come out, isn't in the same genre other than it has a rpg element and doesn't even have a release date does nothing for this thread. Personally, I'm loving DA:2 with the execption of having to mash the 'A' button on my controller (which can help when you're a 2h warrior and running with other melee characters) and not having my saves for a PC game without suffering through another playthrough of DA:O after playing some of DA:2.

Every sequal that isn't a 'pop-a-squat' and give me the same crap in a different storyline and slightly better looks gets more than a fair share of nay-sayers when it comes out. Trolls be trolling, they had a demo for a reason, and once people on the bandwagon get tired we can go back to having some good conversation about a great game.

[kshocker]

To attempt to get the thread back on topic... Heck no on if I think it's a Waterloo for bioware. I think the game is good, if not a bit buggy. They had a date in mind back in awakenings, and the fact they were less than a month off of that date makes me happy (though I would have been fine with them delaying it a bit more to work on some of the bugs).

[Aspar_Hruk]

HTTP 404 wrote...

lets hope not, if the mmo flops and ME3 and DA2 sell well, then maybe we can get our small naive yet inspired bioware back when EA downsizes them but still fully supports their smaller IPs.

Could be, but let's see the facts. Bioware started 1995 by two medicine men , Ray and Greg. They start as a small company of around 20 ppl who love games, love good stories and RPGs and make wodnerfull games filled with art and steaming with love and passion about making good games.
The do well, make good money, expand, make couple more good games and one day they are offered huge money be this monster company to start doing games for them...
Now Ray is vice president somewhere in the EA offices, he is no more owner of Bioware, Bioware is now owned by the shareholders who care only for that little line on the graph called stock share climbing up. 
So basicly i think greed has ruined old Bioware. Could they have continued doing good RPG games and still do good money? Probably. As someone in a movie said when aksed "how much do you want" and he answered "more" i think there is no going back for Bioware unless they break apart and some of the original founders goes alone and founds another studio and start afresh.
For me, this company is lost in the way it was. Only drastic measures could bring it back...eventually.
Not a big deal though, things change, and if the guys from CDProject do what they promise i don't see a reason to keep being loyal to a company that "betrayed" me, in a snese, and not give my money to someone else isntead.

[Eivea]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

Don't know if you have read the blog of one of the employees at Bioware working on the SWTOR. It was a storm on the net couple of months ago. If it is true or not, we may only see in the future, but he uses a lot of names of real persons involved in the producing process of the game and the picture he draws looks more like a disaster to happen. Besides it got an official response from EA so it wasn't without merrit i think.
Could be a flame from a fired worker or whatnot, but he mentioned 300 million dev costs and still nowhere near a complete competetive product.
Could be a lie, could be truth, but somehow i can't help but connect the heavy drop in quality in DA2 with troubles in the studio, lack of resources given to other teams, rushed releases, in order to collect on money as soon as possible, or to reorient ppl to the MMORPG project...
And so on.
So if SWTOR fails it is very possible Bioware will fail with it and be disbanded, It's just EA has put a lot into this game as it seems. They are big enough to want their own "WoW" and the failure may be heavy.

Oh look, someone is quoting EALouse again.

First of all he was a Mythic employee and what he was saying was mainly about Warhammer.

Second most of his claims have been debunked time and time again. Even he on his blog finally admits he was just venting.

[HTTP 404]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

lets hope not, if the mmo flops and ME3 and DA2 sell well, then maybe we can get our small naive yet inspired bioware back when EA downsizes them but still fully supports their smaller IPs.

Could be, but let's see the facts. Bioware started 1995 by two medicine men , Ray and Greg. They start as a small company of around 20 ppl who love games, love good stories and RPGs and make wodnerfull games filled with art and steaming with love and passion about making good games.
The do well, make good money, expand, make couple more good games and one day they are offered huge money be this monster company to start doing games for them...
Now Ray is vice president somewhere in the EA offices, he is no more owner of Bioware, Bioware is now owned by the shareholders who care only for that little line on the graph called stock share climbing up. 
So basicly i think greed has ruined old Bioware. Could they have continued doing good RPG games and still do good money? Probably. As someone in a movie said when aksed "how much do you want" and he answered "more" i think there is no going back for Bioware unless they break apart and some of the original founders goes alone and founds another studio and start afresh.
For me, this company is lost in the way it was. Only drastic measures could bring it back...eventually.
Not a big deal though, things change, and if the guys from CDProject do what they promise i don't see a reason to keep being loyal to a company that "betrayed" me, in a snese, and not give my money to someone else isntead.

I dont think Im nearly half as pessimistic as you are. but if push came to shove and bioware turns out to be a crap company down the line (not saying that it is or will be) then I will shop elsewhere for games and MOVE on.

[Aspar_Hruk]

Yes, he was a Mythic employee but he talked about Bioware and SWTOR too. And they were debunked by the PR spinners of EA so based on that, they could be lie exactly as much as they could be truth.
Yeah, and venting does not mean he was lying
Also, i don't know for you but i have messed a bit with big corporations before and i kind of always accept with a grain of salt when someone defers from his first words after they step on someone's toes in the "high apartments" of the "building". But that's not the point, it's obvious it may or may not be true, what he said, but one is a fact, the MMORPG is overdue and there are troubles with it, which is impossible to not affect Bioware's other projects.

[Biefstukfriet]

Bhatair wrote...

Biefstukfriet wrote...

I really wish next time USA and EU release dates are the same. Everyone is tearing the game a new one. I'm negatively biased to DAII and I haven't even held the DVD case in my hands yet. It's disconcerting

Stay off the forums until you play the game for yourself is my advice. I hadn't even looked at these forums since the initial annoucement was made and I'm having a blast with the game.

The damage has been done. But it's something I'll keep in mind when Dragon Age 3 hits the stores.

[Aspar_Hruk]

HTTP 404 wrote...

I dont think Im nearly half as pessimistic as you are. but if push came to shove and bioware turns out to be a crap company down the line (not saying that it is or will be) then I will shop elsewhere for games and MOVE on.

I hope i am overly pesimistic and am wrong. Time will tell.
But even if i close my eyes and pretend DA2 is passable, which is a bit hard, i still can't neglect the fact so blatantly spammed in my face that there are so many DLC, paid of course, day 0 of release.
A bad trend in the industry which Bioware have, obviously vicously adopted, which i personally find insulting, especially with the fact that they want full price for their game.
Yes, noone will take the money out of my pocket, but still, we are discussing what has happened with Bioware, which is projected into their games. And maybe that's where my pesimism is coming from.

[PureGold_Au]

Im not sure how seriously i want to take a site called videogamessuck on a video game. But i've played about 8 h in now and i've loved every minut of it, especially the VO and dialouge. Also what is with that just because its a sequal some people think it should just use ALL the same characters and be completly connected, not alot of series work that way you know :/

Modifié par PureGold_Au, 10 mars 2011 - 10:05 .

[rob_k]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

And honestly, stop being blind and call this conspiracy vs Bioware. I don't remember seeing a so loved developer get smacked so hard after a so long waited release of a game, that had a magnificent start and was loved by the community.

I said the same a few days ago. However, maybe you should check the metacritic score for Modern Warfare 2 on all platforms. I know it's not an rpg obviously and people look down on it, but it's still a game that's popular with its own fan base. The same applies to Black Ops.

I had no problems with either game as well, though I have suffered some disconnects in Black Ops. (I haven't played online for a while though, like I haven't played the game itself for a while.)

Starcraft 2 is a game that has quite a few 0/10 review scores as well, with the user average being 8.2/10 and having 201 negative reviews. 87 reviews are mixed and 1,221 reviews are positive. I can somewhat understand disliking the fact that Blizzard is making three games for SC 2, but the game itself is not bad and it has no less content than other RTS games when it comes to the singleplayer campaign. Granted, there wasn't much innovation, but if they had innovated, the game would have been slammed still.

In any case, I don't care about user reviews. I just think the users who give a game 0/10 etc. for whatever reason are idiotic. And before anyone says anything, few games are perfect also. Granted, I don't buy games and then look for nitpicks in said games.

Granted, I'll have to find flaws when I do review DA 2 and that won't be for a while. (At least one playthrough, preferably 2, plus I've got other work to do) I'll also probably list several overall scores for the game, taking into account the different tastes people have. For example, for me, it'll probably be a good score. But for others? It may not be. In other words, in my view, a good critic should recognise what's important to others and not just themselves.

Basically, what it comes down to, is that no game deserves a 0/10 unless it's completely unplayable. I'd also note that if a story of mine (I know this doesn't relate to games but it's my profession) was being reviewed and receiving 0/10s scores, I'd find it quite disrespectul and such.

I wouldn't mind negative criticism or scores though, as long as it's constructive and the views are given in earnest while having an ounce of respect. Something which the reviewer quite clearly lacks. The joke's not funny either if it was a joke.

Modifié par rob_k, 10 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[Aspar_Hruk]

Score 8.2/10 is vastly different from 3/10 (SC2 vs DA2). Yes, of course you are right, that there will always be many ppl who will hate a game and many that will love it. But DA2 is a drastic example. If someone would just want to slam Bioware it would start with DAO, and it didn't. The game had high critic and user score.
Also the audience for MW and CoD series is different, though i feel like Bioware is aiming for that target.
I think users who give 0/10 are not idiots, yes, 0 is kind of pointless taken by itself, but i think it expresses deep disappointment by these users and they want to express that feeling more than giving an exact mathematically proven score. And that too says something.

[rob_k]

It's probably a drastic difference, Aspar, because the game has only just been released.

And I'd second that deep dissapointment thing if the 'reviews' are given in earnest, but it still doesn't take away the fact that the game is far from unplayable. Thing is, reviews are meant to be opinions but they're still supposed to be partly objective in my opinion due to needing to account for the tastes of others. If I find I like a game, I'll mention that but if I also find that someone else probably won't, I'll mention that too.

The 'reviews' in question have no objectivity at all. It's all 'me me me me me'. And 'so bad so bad so bad so bad' over and over hardly qualifies as a review. I don't know if it's still the case either, but when I last checked, the reviews in the 8 - 10 range had barely anyone finding them helpful or agreeing.

The ones such as 'so bad so bad so bad so bad' over and over have people agreeing with them though. It boggles the mind and quite frankly, it reeks of people making multiple accounts and just agreeing with the negative reviews/creating them. (That is if it's even possible on metacritic to have more than one account. I assume it is.)

I wouldn't find that review helpful in the slightest. It just comes off as plain trolling or hateful nonsense being spewed on the interwebz.

Edit: To give a better example, games that are released for the PC that use Steam as DRM get panned just because people can't use the game they got a day earlier than the release date. Then there's people also claiming games like Black Ops have PS2 like graphics, which is quite nonsensical. All of these things when looking at ratings from users dilute the overall score and don't give a fair picture.

Personally, if I were to manage one of those sites, I'd make people register a game if it was possible before they were able to review. But I guess that'a not possible at all.

Modifié par rob_k, 10 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[AkiKishi]

User reviews are often more emtional than logical. If someone gives a game a 0 it expresses deep disapointment rather than a critique of the flaws. It's useful in it's own way.

[rob_k]

By the way, to clarify something, I was perhaps wrong with the 'me me me me me' comment, but my point still stands. Especially when it comes to the 'so bad' review.

Modifié par rob_k, 10 mars 2011 - 10:02 .

[Aspar_Hruk]

Yes, there is a lot of negativism i agree with you. I just checked again metacritic and the score is exactly 3.0 i don't remember seeing an AAA game with such low average result lately. But read 2 longer negative reviews and quite frankly they sounded quite reasonable.
Of course the game is not unplayable and opinions of ppl are just that, opinions. I suspect these ppl are just raging their disappointment because they feel it personal and don't want to write a professional review, but just express their feelings. That's how i think they get to the low scores.
I wouldn't agree with a critic score above 6.5 too though, cause the game has too many fails to get a higher score, compared to other games.
Besides when you evaluate something you always have to put into perspective what you aim it for.
I mean...qualifying for the World Football Cup may be a huge success for a country like...say New Zealand (just random pick, nothing personal) but not reaching the final is considered a failure for Brazil (for example).
So things are relative. And relatively to their expectation these ppl may feel that game does not deserve any of their appreciation.
If we take the DAO score as a base, which was 9.1 i think, i could hardly believe a review that gives that game more than 6.5 ( a professional one), either.
So taking the medium we still would get a fairly low average score for this game, which probably the game deserves.

Modifié par Aspar_Hruk, 10 mars 2011 - 10:06 .

[AkiKishi]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

Yes, there is a lot of negativism i agree with you. I just checked again metacritic and the score is exactly 3.0 i don't remember seeing an AAA game with such low average result lately. But read 2 longer negative reviews and quite frankly they sounded quite reasonable.

For someone who loved everything about DA , freedom of character,multiple races,full dialogue, slower more thoughtful combat etc. A rating of 4/10 or even lower would hardly be unexpected.

The scores otherwise are ok ish until you compare them to other AAA titles then DA2 looks really bad.