At the end of act1 you lose Bethany and this really pissed me off to the point of almost quitting the whole game and washing my hands of the whole damn thing. I know, I know it's just a game but Bethany was my favorite character and the screwed up way it plays out really is lame.
She either dies.. and drops out of your party.
Becomes a grey warden.. and drops out of your party.
Forced into the circle.. and drops out of your party.
The writers could have given at least 1 way out for her. You know It would have been better if the choices I made in this game mattered. Things should be played out because of the decisions that are made in the game. Being forced down one path is really a rip off and a damn cop out.
I would have perfered it if they knocked off the annoying big boobed Isabella,
Whatever.
Bethany's outcome in the game. (SPOILERS)
Débuté par
tele286
, mars 10 2011 09:01
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#2
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 09:03
Pamine
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Well I kinda agree about the choices not mattering, and it's a bit lame. The main plot is way too linear, and our choices make very little difference.
#3
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 12:22
Ridrith
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Wait, what? She can become a grey warden? How?!
#4
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 12:46
Noviere
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Take Anders and Bethany with you for the Deep Roads Expedition.Ridrith wrote...
Wait, what? She can become a grey warden? How?!
#5
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 12:51
Malja
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She apparently comes back briefly near the very end if she becomes a Grey Warden. I don't know the specifics though.
Really, BioWare did their job right by attaching you to a character and this is your reaction? I wonder sometimes.
Really, BioWare did their job right by attaching you to a character and this is your reaction? I wonder sometimes.
#6
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 12:54
Noviere
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Agreed... I was bummed about losing Bethany(she died in the the Deep Roads for me, since she was the only mage I used during Act I). I ended up feeling protective of her, and it bothered me that I couldn't save her. That's a good thing, IMO. It means the writers did a good job!Malja wrote...
Really, BioWare did their job right by attaching you to a character and this is your reaction? I wonder sometimes.
Modifié par Noviere, 10 mars 2011 - 12:54 .
#7
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 01:29
Sillyfish
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Psh, I play a Mage. For me she was killed by the ogre even before we decided to go to Kirkwall.
#8
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 01:30
Naitaka
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Does Beth not make an appearance as a Circle Mage later on in the game?
#9
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 01:45
dewayne31
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according to the guide she can rejoin the group after the quest: the last straw which i believe is act 2 final main plot quest
#10
Posté 10 mars 2011 - 01:46
Grunk
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I RAGED at the loss of Bethany. Like others have said, towards the end there I was like "My sister! Partner in my various exploits! Person that saved me from the damn blood mage at the brothel!" Not to mention I used her and Merrill because I dislike Anders.
I was hoping she'd return at some point either as a Circle Mage (with a special tree and so on) or as a Grey Warden (with a tree). Instead, it's just a loss? That is disappointing.
I was hoping she'd return at some point either as a Circle Mage (with a special tree and so on) or as a Grey Warden (with a tree). Instead, it's just a loss? That is disappointing.
#11
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:45
stewie1974
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I'm confused about how being a grey warden was a cure for the taint.
I thought the taint either killed you or it didn't in the initiation?
Only those who were able to fight it off naturally survived and became grey wardens... I just don't understand how becoming a grey warden is now a cure for being tainted.
I thought grey wardens were just people that could survive the taint and then get special "dark spawn" detection sense.
I thought the taint either killed you or it didn't in the initiation?
Only those who were able to fight it off naturally survived and became grey wardens... I just don't understand how becoming a grey warden is now a cure for being tainted.
I thought grey wardens were just people that could survive the taint and then get special "dark spawn" detection sense.
#12
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:48
Clonedzero
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how can bethany be your favorite character? she has the personality of a cardboard box
#13
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:49
Naitaka
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Ok, just finished a playthrough where she was a Circle Mage. I feel that Bioware really dropped the ball regarding sibling in game, it could have been developed so much better even if they're not in your party. Visiting your sister at the Gallow? Having her as quest givers to help deal with the trouble between Templar and Mages. Correspondence between you and your sister when she becomes a Warden, branching the story out to involve the Warden more in the end game showdown, etc etc. There're tons of stuff they could have done with the concept, it's too bad this game was rushed.
#14
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:57
abusing
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Becoming a Grey Warden is the only known cure of the Darkspawn taint. A person becomes a Grey Warden by drinking Darkspawn blood. This also makes them immune to the taint, if they survive.stewie1974 wrote...
I'm confused about how being a grey warden was a cure for the taint.
I thought the taint either killed you or it didn't in the initiation?
Only those who were able to fight it off naturally survived and became grey wardens... I just don't understand how becoming a grey warden is now a cure for being tainted.
I thought grey wardens were just people that could survive the taint and then get special "dark spawn" detection sense.
Drinking the blood obviously has a different physical effect than, say, getting it in open wounds, etc. No one but Grey Wardens know that drinking darkspawn blood is a cure because doing so is part of the secret joining ritual.
I presume that there's virtually no chance of the average person being cured by drinking the blood anyway. Only the strongest are selected to be Wardens, and many still don't live.
Modifié par abusing, 18 mars 2011 - 06:00 .
#15
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:03
SDNcN
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I actually thought it was pretty cool. My character ended up leaving behind Bethany fearing a repeat of Carver, only for her to be taken away by the Templars. Does it really matter that in another playthrough my character's fears are confirmed?
What baffles me is how many people were upset about the "happy ending" choices in Origins (Going to the circle to help Connor and convincing Zathrian to cure the werewolves) and now how many are upset that they were taken away.
I got a mail from Bethany from the circle and Mother Hawke visits her. I think it would be fair to assume the two could have communicated over the years, just like the game assumes Hawke spent time with the other companions off-screen.
What baffles me is how many people were upset about the "happy ending" choices in Origins (Going to the circle to help Connor and convincing Zathrian to cure the werewolves) and now how many are upset that they were taken away.
Ok, just finished a playthrough where she was a Circle Mage. I feel that Bioware really dropped the ball regarding sibling in game, it could have been developed so much better even if they're not in your party. Visiting your sister at the Gallow? Having her as quest givers to help deal with the trouble between Templar and Mages. Correspondence between you and your sister when she becomes a Warden, branching the story out to involve the Warden more in the end game showdown, etc etc. There're tons of stuff they could have done with the concept, it's too bad this game was rushed.
I got a mail from Bethany from the circle and Mother Hawke visits her. I think it would be fair to assume the two could have communicated over the years, just like the game assumes Hawke spent time with the other companions off-screen.
#16
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:24
TheBlackBaron
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Yeah, BW definitely dropped the ball on that. Especially after they played up the family aspect during development, to simply force Bethany (or Carver, but seriously, **** Carver) out of the party and go Buffalo Bill on Mama Hawke in Act II is incredibly shortsighted.
#17
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:25
jfp2004
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It did bother me that there were easy solutions to quests in the first game, where you could handle problems without any consequences. But I don't think that the solution to that problem was to remove them entirely. I think they just need to be harder to accomplish and probably involve some other kind of consequence as a result.
But either way, I agree. If their eventual fate was to be removed from the party, I don't think they should have been a party member in the first place at all. I really liked having Bethany in the party as someone who knew Hawke, and I enjoyed constantly being at odds with Carver. It was different enough that it made it an enjoyable experience to see how the two are different. But then they get taken away, and I lost characters that I enjoyed, and characters that had useful talents - making me angry at both the story and at having to rely on other characters to take up their roles. They just have just been an NPC like the mother, and then have their fate eventually be Circle or Templar. It would make more sense than giving you a companion, have you get to know them, and then taking them away.
Still, though, it ended up bugging me so much that Bethany ended up dying when I took her to the deep roads without having Anders along that I quit playing for that night and went on here to look for spoilers as to how to avoid it, finding out about the whole Grey Warden thing so that I could go back and do that instead. I was still mad that it resulted in losing her as a party member though; same went for Carver in a later play through.
The best part of Act III for me was that they get to rejoin you as a Grey Warden for the remainder of the game. I still think that should have happened earlier though, like at the end of Act II instead.
But either way, I agree. If their eventual fate was to be removed from the party, I don't think they should have been a party member in the first place at all. I really liked having Bethany in the party as someone who knew Hawke, and I enjoyed constantly being at odds with Carver. It was different enough that it made it an enjoyable experience to see how the two are different. But then they get taken away, and I lost characters that I enjoyed, and characters that had useful talents - making me angry at both the story and at having to rely on other characters to take up their roles. They just have just been an NPC like the mother, and then have their fate eventually be Circle or Templar. It would make more sense than giving you a companion, have you get to know them, and then taking them away.
Still, though, it ended up bugging me so much that Bethany ended up dying when I took her to the deep roads without having Anders along that I quit playing for that night and went on here to look for spoilers as to how to avoid it, finding out about the whole Grey Warden thing so that I could go back and do that instead. I was still mad that it resulted in losing her as a party member though; same went for Carver in a later play through.
The best part of Act III for me was that they get to rejoin you as a Grey Warden for the remainder of the game. I still think that should have happened earlier though, like at the end of Act II instead.
Modifié par jfp2004, 18 mars 2011 - 06:27 .
#18
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:43
Sarkus
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It was clearly the writers intent that Hawke end up suffering a lot as the story progresed by losing his/her family. That makes the romance more important, among other things.
And really, how is being railroaded this way any different then how the origins in DAO handles it? Several of those involve you being railroaded down a path where your character loses family, after all. The noble human loses both parents, a nephew, and a sister in law. The city elf loses family, as does the noble dwarf. They just spread it out here, and at least you can have some impact on what happens with your siblings, based on your choices.
And really, how is being railroaded this way any different then how the origins in DAO handles it? Several of those involve you being railroaded down a path where your character loses family, after all. The noble human loses both parents, a nephew, and a sister in law. The city elf loses family, as does the noble dwarf. They just spread it out here, and at least you can have some impact on what happens with your siblings, based on your choices.
#19
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:47
Craorach
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This was one of the few things that annoyed me about the whole game.
Firstly, I found that the only way I could have a warrior sibling was to be a mage... and a mage sibling was to be a warrior/rogue. Then I discovered that this sibling is almost perminantly removed from you, no matter what else you do, by the end of the first act.
I can understand it from a storytelling point of view.. they want to tell a specific story, they want to highlight the conflict between mages and the rest of society even within families. No matter what non mage family members do for Bethany, she ends up gone one way or another.. and as non mage in an apostate family, Carver feels limited and resentful.. but limiting options like this with companions is one of my few really bugbears with this game.
The difference here is that they are actually party members not just NPCs. The few problems I have with this game all circle around party members and our interactions with them.
No choice in which sibling dies, or in their eventual fate.. they both must be removed from your party for most of the game.
No apparent ability to influence if certain events happen or not, and being punished for reactions to those events by losing what might have been an important party member. Anders and Isabella are prime examples here. Towards the end of my first playthrough, I faced a difficult choice from a game mechanic point of view, not a story one. Keep my only healer, or kill Anders as my Hawke would do.
Now, I was kinda sure I'd get to control Bethany again, but there were a number of fights between me and her... I needed my healer, so I had no choice.
Now, I'm the kind of player who likes to keep a fairly stable set of companions through the game. I don't like switching and changing alot, as I believe we can see alot about a person by those he surrounds himself with. Unfortunately, I often feel I have much less choice in companions than I did even in DAO, and the sibling issues are the most glaring.
Firstly, I found that the only way I could have a warrior sibling was to be a mage... and a mage sibling was to be a warrior/rogue. Then I discovered that this sibling is almost perminantly removed from you, no matter what else you do, by the end of the first act.
I can understand it from a storytelling point of view.. they want to tell a specific story, they want to highlight the conflict between mages and the rest of society even within families. No matter what non mage family members do for Bethany, she ends up gone one way or another.. and as non mage in an apostate family, Carver feels limited and resentful.. but limiting options like this with companions is one of my few really bugbears with this game.
And really, how is being railroaded this way any different then how the origins in DAO handles it? Several of those involve you being railroaded down a path where your character loses family, after all. The noble human loses both parents, a nephew, and a sister in law. The city elf loses family, as does the noble dwarf. They just spread it outhere, and at least you can have some impact on what happens with your siblings, based on your choices.
The difference here is that they are actually party members not just NPCs. The few problems I have with this game all circle around party members and our interactions with them.
No choice in which sibling dies, or in their eventual fate.. they both must be removed from your party for most of the game.
No apparent ability to influence if certain events happen or not, and being punished for reactions to those events by losing what might have been an important party member. Anders and Isabella are prime examples here. Towards the end of my first playthrough, I faced a difficult choice from a game mechanic point of view, not a story one. Keep my only healer, or kill Anders as my Hawke would do.
Now, I was kinda sure I'd get to control Bethany again, but there were a number of fights between me and her... I needed my healer, so I had no choice.
Now, I'm the kind of player who likes to keep a fairly stable set of companions through the game. I don't like switching and changing alot, as I believe we can see alot about a person by those he surrounds himself with. Unfortunately, I often feel I have much less choice in companions than I did even in DAO, and the sibling issues are the most glaring.
Modifié par Craorach, 18 mars 2011 - 06:55 .
#20
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:47
ashwind
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Clonedzero wrote...
how can bethany be your favorite character? she has the personality of a cardboard box
Actually I like her and verric a lot - especially when you are just in ACT I - II
As for the how part of the question:
- Same reason how one could like Morrigan, Isabela, Merrill, Aliester, etc etc
:P Personal preference.
#21
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:59
LtAdams2247
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No pain, no gain. I like how tragidy was the only option. A happy ending is nothing but a story that isn't finished yet. That would be Bethany surviving the Darkspawn horde. But the story continued and in a very hostile place at that. Bad things were going to happen, there was just no way around it. I also loved that our hero just can't save the day every single time like in Origins.
#22
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 07:12
Adhin
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You don't become a grey warden by drinking darkspawn blood. Its a mixture of an Arch Demons blood, darkspawn blood and a magic ritual infusing it. Consuming darkspawn blood results in 2 things you either die outright or you become a ghoul. Though seems the ghoul thing you still non-feral variants.
The dwarf in origins who consumed darkspawn flesh, for instance. Forget his name but he was a ragin' lunatic but still managed to put words together and sell you stuff. Most that don't die though go all flesh-eater on people.
As for the OP I wish I could keep 'the sibling' through out the game honestly. Dislike how 1 is just removed (based off class, feels to arbitrary) at the beginning and the other is removed at act 2. That said I prefer my choice actually having an effect on 'how' there removed, even if game mechanic wise its the same. In relation to the story the 3 separate outcomes are pretty different.
Prologue was garbage though, why I just zip through it and do my best to ignore that whole segment. Would of almost made more sense to have the mother killed by the ogre so you had this whole sibling bickering through out the game with that. The fact they just keep offing family members though pissed me off. Was looking forward to having family, not constantly losing them every 10 hours.
Damn predictable after a bit.
The dwarf in origins who consumed darkspawn flesh, for instance. Forget his name but he was a ragin' lunatic but still managed to put words together and sell you stuff. Most that don't die though go all flesh-eater on people.
As for the OP I wish I could keep 'the sibling' through out the game honestly. Dislike how 1 is just removed (based off class, feels to arbitrary) at the beginning and the other is removed at act 2. That said I prefer my choice actually having an effect on 'how' there removed, even if game mechanic wise its the same. In relation to the story the 3 separate outcomes are pretty different.
Prologue was garbage though, why I just zip through it and do my best to ignore that whole segment. Would of almost made more sense to have the mother killed by the ogre so you had this whole sibling bickering through out the game with that. The fact they just keep offing family members though pissed me off. Was looking forward to having family, not constantly losing them every 10 hours.
Damn predictable after a bit.
#23
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 07:14
abusing
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For some reason, the second installation in a trilogy (or more) always seems to be the darkest. I've been playing DA:O since it came out, gleefully anticipating the next installation. I beat it in a few days and I'm unhappy with much of it. I'll simply assume that this is the less than perfect, "darkest days" sequel and put my faith in DA3.LtAdams2247 wrote...
No pain, no gain. I like how tragidy was the only option. A happy ending is nothing but a story that isn't finished yet. That would be Bethany surviving the Darkspawn horde. But the story continued and in a very hostile place at that. Bad things were going to happen, there was just no way around it. I also loved that our hero just can't save the day every single time like in Origins.
#24
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 07:21
Fieryeel
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In my opinion, it's better this way.
Look at DA:O Conner's quest. You had the option of killing Conner, sacrificing his mother, or you-know, "hey gimme about a month to cleanse the circle of magi, somehow save mages, AND somehow convince the First Enchanter and a lot of mages to bring a lot of lyrium to save you both!"
That was stupid imo. Majority of players went for that easy path where there was no bloodshed involved.
I don't like it when games have an easy way out with no consequences.
Look at DA:O Conner's quest. You had the option of killing Conner, sacrificing his mother, or you-know, "hey gimme about a month to cleanse the circle of magi, somehow save mages, AND somehow convince the First Enchanter and a lot of mages to bring a lot of lyrium to save you both!"
That was stupid imo. Majority of players went for that easy path where there was no bloodshed involved.
I don't like it when games have an easy way out with no consequences.
#25
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 07:28
Craorach
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Fieryell, I can see what you mean, but some of these are not consequences, because there are no options to avoid them.
Whatever you do, an arbritarily decided sibling dies at the end of the first area. This isn't based on any choices you make outside of character creation, its purely the class you are, and sets the tone for much of the rest of the game.
Whatever you do, the other sibling is removed from your party for most of the rest of the game at the end of the first act. While you seem to have some choice as to how they are removed, the end result is the same.
When it comes to the rest of the companions.. whatever you do, Anders does what he does.. even as a mage hating character, there is no way to stop him, expose what he is trying to do. He does what he does, end of story.
Those are not consequences, they are things that are going to happen and you simply have the illusion of being able to stop them.
Whatever you do, an arbritarily decided sibling dies at the end of the first area. This isn't based on any choices you make outside of character creation, its purely the class you are, and sets the tone for much of the rest of the game.
Whatever you do, the other sibling is removed from your party for most of the rest of the game at the end of the first act. While you seem to have some choice as to how they are removed, the end result is the same.
When it comes to the rest of the companions.. whatever you do, Anders does what he does.. even as a mage hating character, there is no way to stop him, expose what he is trying to do. He does what he does, end of story.
Those are not consequences, they are things that are going to happen and you simply have the illusion of being able to stop them.
