114 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

2kgnsiika wrote...

ME 2: Metascore 96
Fans: "OMG BioWare ruined Mass Effect and EA paid off the critics!"

DA 2: Metascore 84
Fans: "OMG BioWare ruined Dragon Age and the critics hate it!"

Difference being an important one:
ME2 user reviews are overall very positive.
DA2 user reviews are overall very negative.

There's a huge difference in the amount of positive to negative reviews for ME2. For DA2 it's a noticable large difference in the amount of negative to positive reviews.

ME2 was well accepted even among users that reviewed it. DA2 wasn't.

[JG The Gamer]

Not worried at all. Both games were done by different teams within BioWare. The ME team is doing amazing. The DA team... well they have reason to be worried.

Seriously, stop worrying people.

[Ice Cold J]

I'm not worried.

Bioware has been making top-notch games since KOTOR.

I'm not worried about their ability ot make a great game. What does worry me a bit is the seemingly rushed release date of late 2011.

Considering it was almost three years between ME1 & 2's release, less than two years for what is supposed to be the epic last installment to arguably the greatest videogame trilogy of all-time seems a little pithy.

[ODST 5723]

I'm enjoying DA2 thus far and I loved ME2 and felt that overall it was better than the original at some things, but not others. I'm not concerned about ME3

[Lumikki]

What negative about DA2?

You mean the people who wanted DA2 be like DAO and could not handle it?

Why would I care about they opinions. ME3 will be just fine. I liked both ME1 and ME2.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[Reginthorn]

 No the people working on Mass Effect 3 did not make Dragon Age 2. EA and BioWare just need to learn that you can't rush making RPG's (at least good ones).

[DoctorCuddles]

I have yet to look into the DA2 forums, as my copy should be arriving tomorrow and I dont want to spoil anything.

In regards to the supposed hate for DA2 I am not worried about ME3, there will always be people who dont like the game, I am still going to order ME3 the first chance I get, and will make my own opinions once I have played it.

[Denize]

I hope only that one thing will be good - plot. I really don´t want big plotholes. I want a plot, that will explain some important things in ME universe (for example reapers origins). And of course I hope, that ME3 will be a respectable ending for Shepard´s story.

[xIREDEEMEDIx]

I actually like DA2 at the moment. But at the same time, I feel like I am playing ME 2.5. So I guess you would call that Dragon Effect?! I think if I put in the ME 2 disk and gave Shepard a sword and shield, I then would be playing Mass Age!?!? JMO

[The Smoking Man]

Denize wrote...

I really don´t want big plotholes.

But those are Mac Walters's specialty!

[Kane-Corr]

Ok, the only problem with DA2 is that it was really buggy. Other than that...it's amazing...a much better experience than DAO. AND, the story is more of a launching point for what is going to happen in the future. Different than DAO but for the best.

[billy the squid]

Angmir wrote...

Neighter for me - ME series got their revolution in ME2 when they changed most of the machanics and for good mostly. I cant see ME3 beeing vastly difrent from what we have in ME2. And I like it this way, of coruse we still know nothing about it.

And I wouldnt dispair too much about DA2 failing fans expectations, as aparently there is whole difrent team working on DA, and ME series. Brief look on the DLC avaliable for both series would give you the answer whitch team is better, and respects theirs fans greatly.

So far ME BIOWARE Team was awesome in standind up to fans expectations, putting a great deal of effort on listening to their comunity, liike with LotSB DLC which stood up to all my wildest expectations - with all the fun content references, character dialogs, gameplay, and emotions included (blasto Advertisment, Liara asking about giving Miss vas Normandy a homeworld, and many more !!)

So I am not conserned a bit, I belive in BIOWARE MASS EFFECT TEAM - they love this game no less than we do.

Agree, there was criticism of ME2's direction too, but the change was done very well, resulting in a more action orientated game to be sure, with RPG elements only, okay they might have stripped out the inventory system a little too much for my tastes and the minning thing meh, but this was more a minor irritation which i quickly forgot after the first couple of hours  

I loved ME1 and was worried about certain things, but ME2 really exceeded my expectations and I really like RPGs even though I still play shooters. The difference between ME2/ME1/DAO and DA2? The latter is half ar*ed, half finished, ill thought out badly implemented game. It crams in ridiculously fast combat and overdone, oversimplified hacking with a loose story, hammy romances repetative gameplay to pad out the time compounded by tedious, frustrating game mechanics compared to DAO's which required some reworking to improve not butchering DAO and throwing in random ideas with no concept or foresight of how they mesh together and if it will actually work.

I think the statement "push a button and something awsome happens" which was bandied around sums up the amount of thought and time that went into the game. But I digress, (i also apologies for the brief outburst)

The fact that ME2 chose a direction away from RPG genre, was a risk, but the obvious effort put into it shows in the game and the DLC, the characters dialogue and immersion in the whole universe eg: saving someone on novaria or feros was really transfered over well rather 
I actually cared about the crew eg: Tali...ahh Tali

Seriously though, I wouldn't be too worried provided they don't rush the development cycle, which I believe they have had nearly 3 years by the time it comes out and providing they don't do anything completely insane! I think it will be okay. fingers crossed!

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 mars 2011 - 12:53 .

[WorpeX]

Wait, people didn't like ME2? I thought the game was outstanding. Anyway, the DA team sucks in comparison to the ME team. The only thing they did good was Origins and everything after that was a disappointment, even the large majority of the DLC. Awakening was the worst, in my opinion. Haven't played DA2 yet though.

Almost everything the ME team has done, was done well and lived up to fan expectations. The only real exception to this would be pinnicle station and the first alternate appearance pack. Everything else has been great, some better than others, but all enjoyable and worth purchasing.

Modifié par WorpeX, 15 mars 2011 - 02:25 .

[marshalleck]

I don't doubt that ME3 will be a good game. ME2 was a good game. So is DA2, though I've yet to finish it. What I doubt is whether it will be up to what I thought were Bioware's higher standards. There's definitely a notable difference between pre-buyout Bioware games (Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins, which had been in production for years) and then the after-buyout sequels, ME2 and DA2. Corners are cut everywhere and writing quality has generally deteriorated.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 mars 2011 - 02:49 .

[MassEffect762]

marshalleck wrote...

I don't doubt that ME3 will be a good game. ME2 was a good game. So is DA2, though I've yet to finish it. What I doubt is whether it will be up to what I thought were Bioware's higher standards. There's definitely a notable difference between pre-buyout Bioware games (Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins, which had been in production for years) and then the after-buyout sequels, ME2 and DA2. Corners are cut everywhere and writing quality has generally deteriorated.

+1 Exactly how I feel about it.

[RedShft]

Reginthorn wrote...

 No the people working on Mass Effect 3 did not make Dragon Age 2. EA and BioWare just need to learn that you can't rush making RPG's (at least good ones).

DA2 was not rushed. There were as many minor bugs with DA:O as there are in DA2. There will always be bugs. In fact ME2 has had persistent bugs in it SINCE IT HAS BEEN RELEASED that STILL have not been resolved. I guess from this I can see "We'll gee, Bioware really shoun't have rushed ME2, this will sure learn them something." 

marshalleck wrote...

I don't doubt that ME3 will be a good game. ME2 was a good game. So is DA2, though I've yet to finish it. What I doubt is whether it will be up to what I thought were Bioware's higher standards. There's definitely a notable difference between pre-buyout Bioware games (Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins, which had been in production for years) and then the after-buyout sequels, ME2 and DA2. Corners are cut everywhere and writing quality has generally deteriorated.

ME2 was the highest rated game out of the four you mention here. It has received a metacritic score of 96. 

Secondly, just because a developer goes in a different direction with their game then you expect and desire, it does not mean that "corners were cut". Contrary to your own belief, a game can still be exceptional if you dislike certain design decisions or even the genre it was made in. Just because you dislike something does not mean it is of low quality.

Just because I dislike the survival horror does not mean that the Dead space franchises are bad games where corners were cut.

Modifié par RedShft, 15 mars 2011 - 04:50 .

[xTHExWARRIORx]

NOPE!!!

[snfonseka]

I am worrying about this "Save Game Transfer" option ME3. BW said that they will reflect our decisions in ME3. But given the things I have heard, read so far regarding DA2s' decision transformation, I think there won't be any noticeable impact from ME or ME2 on ME3.

[marshalleck]

RedShft wrote...

ME2 was the highest rated game out of the four you mention here. It has received a metacritic score of 96.

And McDonald's sells more hamburgers than anyone else, it doesn't mean their food is good. It just means it has a market.

Secondly, just because a developer goes in a different direction with their game then you expect and desire, it does not mean that "corners were cut". Contrary to your own belief, a game can still be exceptional if you dislike certain design decisions or even the genre it was made in. Just because you dislike something does not mean it is of low quality.

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting. I'm quite aware of the necessity of differentiating between the subjective and objective when critiquing a piece of work, and most of my complaints with DA2 and ME2 are not subjective. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[RedShft]

SalsaDMA wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

ME 2: Metascore 96
Fans: "OMG BioWare ruined Mass Effect and EA paid off the critics!"

DA 2: Metascore 84
Fans: "OMG BioWare ruined Dragon Age and the critics hate it!"

Difference being an important one:
ME2 user reviews are overall very positive.
DA2 user reviews are overall very negative.

There's a huge difference in the amount of positive to negative reviews for ME2. For DA2 it's a noticable large difference in the amount of negative to positive reviews.

ME2 was well accepted even among users that reviewed it. DA2 wasn't.

Users were crying that ME2 was a shooter and not an RPG. If you feel that the changes in ME2 were well accpeted then you are delusional. The ME forums were ablaze with criticisms about Bioware catering to the mass market and letting RPGs rot. Users hated ME2 and some still do because they feel it is too much of a shooter and not enough RPG.

People will always hate change, especially if it is with something they love. Many very successful gaming franchises have built their sales upon the simple formula of "New guns, New enemies, New Maps". Look at Call of Duty, this franchise hasn't made any SIGNIFICANT change since COD4 came out years ago. Look at the Battlefield series, the overall game is the same but with different maps, guns and vehicles. 

You should be happy that Bioware has the guts to make progress and be as innovative as they are or else we would be playing Bauldars gate 6 right now or maybe KOTOR 5.

Modern Warfare 3 and Battlefield 3 are just around the corner, who's in for the same sh*t for the eigth year in a row?

marshalleck wrote...

RedShft wrote...

ME2 was the highest rated game out of the four you mention here. It has received a metacritic score of 96.

And McDonald's sells more hamburgers than anyone else, it doesn't mean their food is good. It just means it has a market.

Secondly, just because a developer goes in a different direction with their game then you expect and desire, it does not mean that "corners were cut". Contrary to your own belief, a game can still be exceptional if you dislike certain design decisions or even the genre it was made in. Just because you dislike something does not mean it is of low quality.

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting. I'm quite aware of the necessity of differentiating between the subjective and objective when critiquing a piece of work, and most of my complaints with DA2 and ME2 are not subjective. 

Right, but those were reviewers who review games for a living. No food critic would go to a McDonalds and call it a five star restaurant. Your analogy is terrible. 

If I had a choice of 15-20 hours of additional content that was exceptionally written and still great fun but it was in the same layout I had seen 5 times before, I would pick the 15 hours extra. 

This is not a "cut-corner" it is a calculated risk. A cut corner would be using cheap textures, rigid animations, reusing spell effects.

Modifié par RedShft, 15 mars 2011 - 05:11 .

[Iakus]

RedShft wrote...


You should be happy that Bioware has the guts to make progress and be as innovative as they are or else we would be playing Bauldars gate 6 right now or maybe KOTOR 5.

Gee thanks, now I have to wipe up the drool 
 

Innovation is fine.  But not all innovation works.  A few things about ME 2 I liked.  But I seriously did NOT like the story of ME 2.  For many reasons that I have gone over many times at length.  And I am jave been  pointing them out, because if Bioware thinks that this story "innovation" is somehow for the better, then one of the results is losing me as a customer.  If I'm an acceptable loss to them, well that's a sad thing.  But at least I spoke up and didn't give up quietly.

Edit:  And fyi, I am in the process of playing DA2, and while it is certainly far from the best game Bioware has ever put out, it is still enjoyable in its own right. Just keep in mind that it isn't a direct sequel to Origins.  See, I can appreciate innovation!

Modifié par iakus, 15 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[RedShft]

iakus wrote...

RedShft wrote...


You should be happy that Bioware has the guts to make progress and be as innovative as they are or else we would be playing Bauldars gate 6 right now or maybe KOTOR 5.

Gee thanks, now I have to wipe up the drool 
 

Innovation is fine.  But not all innovation works.  A few things about ME 2 I liked.  But I seriously did NOT like the story of ME 2.  For many reasons that I have gone over many times at length.  And I am jave been  pointing them out, because if Bioware thinks that this story "innovation" is somehow for the better, then one of the results is losing me as a customer.  If I'm an acceptable loss to them, well that's a sad thing.  But at least I spoke up and didn't give up quietly.

I assure you, if Bioware had released 4 additional itterations of Bauldars gate and 4 additional Iterations of KOTOR you would be a lot more pissed then you are now. Even games such as those would be considered boring  if there weren't any moves toward progress and innnovation. 

Not all innovation works, true, but that is the inheirant risk. There have always been things I have not totally enjoyed about Bioware games. I thought the story in KOTOR was uneventful other than the massive twist. It was the only thing that made the story interesting. I thought the ending of ME2 was a bit cheesy (no other better word). It kind of reminded me of a terrible sci-fi B movie. However, up until the end of ME2 the gameplay and story were exceptional. 

However I do not know what innovation in the story you are talking about.

[Zulu_DFA]

marshalleck wrote...

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting.

Out of curiousity: aside from the main plot levels, ME1 had basically 4 "dungeons" reused with different "furniture" arrangement, plus seemingly random-generated but vastly desolate planetary landscapes. Is it better or worse in DA2?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 mars 2011 - 05:33 .

[Iakus]

GIven I have both Baldur's Gates and both KOTORs on my computer right now, I think I could handle more iterations.  BG2, and KOTOR are, imo, the best games ever to come out of Bioware.  And I'm really glad they came out several years ago since, if the current Bioware iteration had done it, Bastila would likely have ended up dressed like Red Sonya 

ME 2, to me, played like a demo disk for a dozen seperate games set in the ME universe.  There was no central goal (or rather there was, you just spend most of the game ignoring it).  The individual recruitment and loyalty missions were intersting, but nothing held it together.  Too few Collector missions, no party banter or dialogue.  No one cared what went on as long as their needs were fufilled.  No arguements, no debate, no friendships.  In short, no team  This is innovation? 

DA 2, for all it's faults, knows the value of friendship and teamwork.  They argue.  They bicker.  They disagree with your choices, or give you advice.  Even if it's not "their" mission.  Hawke can even consult other party members on matters they know more of.

Modifié par iakus, 15 mars 2011 - 05:39 .

[Iakus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Out of curiousity: aside from the main plot levels, ME1 had basically 4 "dungeons" reused with different "furniture" arrangement, plus seemingly random-generated but vastly desolate planetary landscapes. Is it better or worse in DA2?

Id say about the same.  But what really got me were passages and hallways showing up on the minimap, but no doors where teh entrances to those places should be.  Oops.