114 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting.

Out of curiousity: aside from the main plot levels, ME1 had basically 4 "dungeons" reused with different "furniture" arrangement, plus seemingly random-generated but vastly desolate planetary landscapes. Is it better or worse in DA2?

I didn't really like the reused warehouses and bunkers in ME1, but I did like the planetary exploration. I thought the uncharted worlds had a sort of unique charm of their own, despite all of them being barren terrain. The skyboxes in particular for all of them were quite stunning, and I often felt like Shepard and his team really were on some distant moon on the far side of our galaxy. All through ME2 I couldn't shake the feeling that Shepard was walking through a Hollywood action movie set. The conveniently placed waist-high barricades, boxes, walls, etc. just made the effect worse. It felt like a shooting gallery, as opposed to the very well-designed and sprawling locales in ME1 which seemed like places where people would live or work. 

Oh holy crap. I just realized I thought you asked something else. Well, I'd say it's worse in DA2. If my Hawke were visiting the same cave every few years, I would not expect it to change. Not in the slightest. The problem is that each cave/mine/tunnel Hawke encounters is always the same level, but with a few chests and lootables in differing arrangements and maybe some doors are open whereas in the other cave they're closed, etc. Even the lighting is totally static. At least the warehouses in ME1 had varied lighting. <_<

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 mars 2011 - 05:43 .

[RainyDayLover]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting.

Out of curiousity: aside from the main plot levels, ME1 had basically 4 "dungeons" reused with different "furniture" arrangement, plus seemingly random-generated but vastly desolate planetary landscapes. Is it better or worse in DA2?

DA2 is a LOT worse. The thing with Mass Effect was that, it had a larger scope as there were various planets and hub worlds you could visit which were quite distinct as you've mentioned, so whenever you hit up a base on a uncharted world, the recycled areas were easier to ignore and you never lost the sense of immersiveness. Plus, you never spent that much of a time in them.

In DA2, the recycled dungeons and other areas make their way into the main quests because you're confined within the city for the whole game. It's ridiculous, really. There's no doubt the game was rushed and the devs. got lazy because of pressure due to such an early deadline from EA.

Nevertheless, it's a very enjoyable game still and probably the most different Bioware game to date storywise, as it's free of most of the Bioware cliches.

Modifié par RainyDayLover, 15 mars 2011 - 05:45 .

[Zulu_DFA]

marshalleck wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting.

Out of curiousity: aside from the main plot levels, ME1 had basically 4 "dungeons" reused with different "furniture" arrangement, plus seemingly random-generated but vastly desolate planetary landscapes. Is it better or worse in DA2?

I didn't really like the reused warehouses and bunkers in ME1, but I did like the planetary exploration. I thought the uncharted worlds had a sort of unique charm of their own, despite all of them being barren terrain. The skyboxes in particular for all of them were quite stunning, and I often felt like Shepard and his team really were on some distant moon on the far side of our galaxy. All through ME2 I couldn't shake the feeling that Shepard was walking through a Hollywood action movie set. The conveniently placed waist-high barricades, boxes, walls, etc. just made the effect worse. It felt like a shooting gallery, as opposed to the very well-designed and sprawling locales in ME1 which seemed like places where people would live or work. 

Oh holy crap. I just realized I thought you asked something else. Well, I'd say it's worse in DA2. If my Hawke were visiting the same cave every few years, I would not expect it to change. Not in the slightest. The problem is that each cave/mine/tunnel Hawke encounters is always the same level, but with a few chests and lootables in differing arrangements and maybe some doors are open whereas in the other cave they're closed, etc. Even the lighting is totally static. At least the warehouses in ME1 had varied lighting. <_<

Lol, thank you!

This (your rundown on ME2's environments) is exactly how I feel too. I swear, when I played ME2 for the first time I had an eery feeling of deja vu during some N7 missions. I couldn't quite pin point it until recently, when I dug up my old copy of Duke Nukem 3D (Ninety-frakking-six, and it's still a better "shooter experience" than ME2!!!). In short: 2nd act - Lunar Base, 3rd act - a level in a Hollywood set for filming a movie about Duke at the Lunar Base... And that was exactly that feeling! "Lol, WTF, this is a movie set!"

It would have been probably better if no N7 mission was taking place "outdoors" at all. At least the prefab spacecraft and colony modules have a reason to be generic.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 mars 2011 - 06:35 .

[Killer3000ad]

Different lead designer is doing ME3 so I have faith in Bioware for ME3 but can't say the same for DA3 at the moment.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 15 mars 2011 - 09:41 .

[lawp79]

Tbh I was worried for ME3 after ME2.

[Goofy McCoy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Blatant reuse of areas in DA2 without even touching up minor details to differentiate the environments is corner-cutting.

Out of curiousity: aside from the main plot levels, ME1 had basically 4 "dungeons" reused with different "furniture" arrangement, plus seemingly random-generated but vastly desolate planetary landscapes. Is it better or worse in DA2?

Prefabricated buildings on the space frontier seems like a no brainer, at least to me. No way some mining settlement with a few dozen workers is going to have it's own unique archetecture, it just wouldn't be practical. By the same token, building everything to exacting standards in a medievel/fantasy setting is impractical as well, seeing as they craft nearly everything by hand.

I get why it was bothersome, but if I was going to forgive recycling for any reason, ME and space sci-fi in general tend to have the perfect excuse.

Modifié par Goofy McCoy, 15 mars 2011 - 10:45 .

[CroGamer002]

Seeds of doubt?


Ofcourse not.

[Phategod1]

can the mods at least from here to E3 lock all threads containing any reference to Dragon age 2 cause this is getting boring,

[ShaggyWolf]

With the exception of minor flaws (Mainly reused areas), I like DA2. Also, the team that makes DA games is not the same team that makes ME games, and the ME team has done nothing to earn doubt from its general community. The last thing they left us with was LOTSB which is a god among DLC's.

So I still have plenty of faith in BW and in ME3.

[Lee337]

I love ME2 as much as the original, and like every other game they have made except DA2. I don't think one game not liked is going to worry me too much.
I view Mass Effect as a trilogy so I imagine that 2 & 3 are closely linked, like the matrix was. People felt ME2 was just collecting characters and didn't advance the story enough but I felt it was the preperations for ME3, if they had advanced ME2 too much ME3 might be a very small game!

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...


GIven I have both Baldur's Gates and both KOTORs on my computer right now, I think I could handle more iterations.  BG2, and KOTOR are, imo, the best games ever to come out of Bioware. 

Agreed, on Kotor. But even there, I feel like the series would get old after Kotor 5 and 6.

[LordNige]

To be honest people tend to have a negative skew on the rushed aspect of DA2, the fact that the game isn't a steaming mess is credit to Bioware, yes DA2 has repetitive dungeons and a fair few bugs but when you compare it to another rush job (Obsidians Alpha Protocol) it holds up well.

[Franzius]

Killer3000ad wrote...

Different lead designer is doing ME3 so I have faith in Bioware for ME3 but can't say the same for DA3 at the moment.

I just want you to note that the lead designer of ME3 will be the same of ME2...:
the feared Christina "THE CUTTER" Norman !!!
She is the one responsible for: 8bit-era galaxy maps, planet scanning, 12 party members, suicide mission, replace rpg elements with power-ups, cut party management, cut weapon-armour management/cutomization, cut vehicle exploration, cut looting, make money/credits useless,  etc... etc... etc...

ME3 is not in good hands....

[MJimiD]

Unlike most fans (and critics), I've consistently seen Bioware as a hit & miss company. That, and they were supposed to design for a niche market. Perhaps the reason they're making mistakes--Although I entertain the idea that EA is semi-responsible--is that they're trying to make their games less niche-y. Personally, if ME3 ends up not satisfying, I don't think it will have to do with overall company trends, but simply because they failed to seriously weigh the concerns of the players and respond accordingly. For ME2 and DA2, they weighed the concerns of the players, but their response was over-reactive.