183 réponses à ce sujet

[fantasypisces]

 So maybe it's just me, but after beating the game, having sided with the mages, I just felt like a d**n fool and wanted to trash my character.

For the entire game, myself, anders, the first enchanter, some templars, family, friends, you name it, all go on about how you can't judge the many based upon the actions of the few. In this case, the few referring to blood mages.

I rivaled with Merril trying to get her to give up on blood magic, almost! (couldn't lock it) rivaled with Fenris telling him not all mages are bad. Basically throughout the game, just being understanding, standing up for others, etc.

Then I get to the final battle and almost every freaking mage I'm trying to help resorts to blood magic, or call on daemons for aid. Hell, even the first enchanter used insane blood magic to change into a giant freaking monster daemon thing.

After I beat the templars I wanted to turn around and kill all of those mages (if there were any left) simply because they made me look like an utter fool. 

I romanced Anders with my male hawke. Then even this once paragon of a mage becomes a terrorist (I almost threw my computer against the wall). Anyway, I decided to try and stay with him and try and keep him a bit calmer, keep doing the fight but not killing as many innocents. I spent 90 minutes with the game on pause trying to make the decision if I should stay with him (hey, its an RPG game!). I kept thinking he may be the exception, this is to preserve the freedom of mages, but then almost every single mage I see after making that decision is using blood-magic. 

Here's hoping the other circles aren't as crazy-stupid as Kirkwall's circle. Since I'm apparently still helping Anders in his fight.

I dunno, I just kept invisioning a cartoon character walking up to me, then beating me over the head with a sign that said "Idiot!". Because according to Dragon Age 2 (in Kirkwall at least) the many is the blood-mages, and the few are the pure (Bethany is it). I don't know if I can really include Anders in the "pure" category since he is essentially a terrorist on the run now (and I feel guilty for staying with him, but that's besides the point).

[phoenixds24]

Actually, yeah, I was kinda pissed about how that ended up. Anders goes off and commits a massive act of terrorism, we get into the Gallows and everyone is either an abomination or a crazy blood mage, and the First Enchanter turns himself into a Harvester... Wha...? You spend the whole game trying to tell everyone not all mages are bad and then everybody goes bonkers.

[cyrusthefox]

I face palmed... Now in a new game, time to side with the Templars..

[jarnaez]

I sided with the templars my first playthrough. After the Qunari debacle I was ready to burn the chantry down (Still wish you could convert. I was hoping for a three-way free for all between qunari,chantry,and mages.) but when every mage I came across was bringing demons and blood magic to bear in act III that really shifted it. Was glad the dialogue being mostly good emphasized that this didn't need to happen, but that this circle in particular was a lost cause. Going evil mage on my 2nd so I'm eager to see how that pans out.

[TheJist]

I felt the same way.

[Sjofn]

You know, given how the Templar lady is completely insane, I'm gonna go ahead and assume siding with the Templars is also going to be ... depressing.

I only sided with the mages my first time through because I wound up really liking Anders and romancing him, PLUS I felt all protective of poor Bethany. The ending made me want to cry. But in a good way, really.

Makes the whole "Alistair dumped me!" thing from DA:O seem lighthearted and adorable though.

[Malja]

Sjofn wrote...

You know, given how the Templar lady is completely insane, I'm gonna go ahead and assume siding with the Templars is also going to be ... depressing.

I only sided with the mages my first time through because I wound up really liking Anders and romancing him, PLUS I felt all protective of poor Bethany. The ending made me want to cry. But in a good way, really.

Makes the whole "Alistair dumped me!" thing from DA:O seem lighthearted and adorable though.

Lol! I felt kinda derped from it as a templar sympathizer actually. "They aren't all bad. But you're MAKING me choose so hell I'll do it", then you see all that. So it's really anyone who didn't adopt that cynical viewpoint.

[Pamine]

Ya I found it too bad that they made it so that every mage would side against you even if you try to help, and use blood magic and such.

[sylvanaerie]

I too went mage side...mostly because the Knight Commander is nucking futs. I've never been able to annul...and remember there ARE some innocents in there (though most are cannon fodder in the cutscene). If I could save even one or two...
UGH yea its a frustrating choice. Anders goes all ICBM on me and my apostate Hawke murder knifed the bastard. Hawke was pissed since doofus killed the one person who might have been able to defuse the situation and up to then she was being played as a diplomatic try to find peaceful solutions type of PC. Plus really DUDE? You were hiding THIS under your robes? Why weren't you that effective in the group?

[DrunkDave89]

*ending spoilers*









I agree, I felt a bit gypped siding with the mages. I don't quite understand the point of the high enchanter fight. Also, I can think of only one time when I was fighting through the streets during the climax where there were friendly mages. Everyone else seems to be a blood mage, and you'll end up in a melee-a-trois between them and the templars. It was weird to see meridith go from "a bit of a ****" to "full on artifact-fueled madwoman" without much of a transition at all. Anders went seemingly nuts pretty much out of nowhere (i guess they did a checkov's gun with the quest to distract the high priestess while he screwed around in the chantry, but still) If i were really roleplaying, I would have had him killed on the spot, but unfortunately, he was the most important member of my party, so I had to side with him.

I'm interested to see what it's like to side with the templars on my second playthrough... should be even more interesting, since I'll be playing a mage.


Not related strictly to siding with the mages, but I figure this is as good a place to gripe about the final sequence as any. I would really have enjoyed a sequence away from hawke (like in Origins where everyone who wasn't with the warden had to protect the gates for a bit). That sequence forced me to use characters I hadn't used before, and opened me up to wanting to use them more often on my next playthrough. It would have worked even better in THC (The Hawke Chronicles), since your party isn't nearly as gear dependent as they were in Origins. I guess it's cool that they stick around for fight with the first enchanter and with meredith, but they could easily have rebalanced those fights to work for a party of 4, and the rest could... i dunno, hold off a wave of templars or something.

[TallBearNC]

From what I have read, there is no "happy" ending... either siding with the templars or mages results in the player... "wanting" or a sad ending.. I don't think BW, will leave the game like this.. TBH... it's a GREAT way to market DLC that can "resolve" those endings I bet there will be FAR more DLC for DA2 than there was for DAO.

I know many people do not like the way some game makers are making games: Not fully making the whole game in one, huge release, but a main chunk, then you pay extra, over time for the rest.

I'm torn on the issue. On one side, I KNOW a company has a budget and there's only so much they can do.. and I hate waiting, sometimes YEARS for a sequel.

So in the end, as long as a company doesnt "abuse" DLC. I perfer that model. As you get the game, and they can keep you "busy" while they work on a squel. The exiled prince, some would say is an abuse on that, but it really was a "reward" for early pre orders, and if people want the pre order perks, then they can buy them later

[TallBearNC]

On the both sides issues. Mages CAN get out of control, get posessed, get into blood magic, etc. so I DO think they need some sort of BENEVOLENT guardians. Not some psycho templar witch. So clearly there needs to be another solution that the templars. I'm VERY mage friendly, but I realize there must be some way to watch over them. Even the Dalish (whatever you call her) mentions that they "deal" with abominations in their on way.

On the flip side, you can't oppress the mages and treat them like slaves or indentured servants. That leads to cruelty, tyrany, exploitation, etc.

The game doesn't seem to resolve this issue in a proper fashion. I just HOPE they make DLC that DOES resolve it Otherwise I'd probably give the game ending a 2 out of 5.

Edit. Im turning this reply into a thread of it's own to hopefully catch BWs attention.

Modifié par TallBearNC, 10 mars 2011 - 07:26 .

[abominare]

classic Empire Strikes back ending? Everything is in disarray our heroes in hiding (seeker and leliana confirm that both our heroes are missing now)

I was very happy with the ending except for the fact that i wanted to keep playing and hear the story. Dragon age as a series was always touted as a dark fantasy since its inception and in that respect this ending is much more true to that than DA:O's ending.

Anders blowing up the chantry has been one of the biggest twists I've seen in a game in a long time, assuming you hadnt spent your time in the spoilers thread before launch I dont think anyone was quite expecting that moment.

The series managed to turn everything a dark shade of gray where almost everyone now is in the wrong and is a very interesting tale of oppression, racism, and religious overtones where even the 'hero' is forced to abide by these rules eliminating the 'christian salvation' (your character isnt a jesus setting everything right and happy) approach to crisis settling. Despite all of the things i disliked about the game the story which singularly wasnt the strongest turned into an extremely power mechanism to change the entire story of the series and was simply amazing that this level of writing was in a game and not a book.

[DrunkDave89]

I definitely agree with Abominare's statement about the Empire ending. It's clear that Hawke and the Warden have buggered off for parts unknown (hopefully they don't go the way of Revan and not come back/not do anything important) This is clearly not going to be the end of the series. I would be surprised if there isn't some DLC that lets you resolve the issues at hand, since the framing device of Verric's storytelling leaves lots of holes for them to insert some more story into. Possible DLC could pick up right at the end after hawke walks away, or fill in some of the gaps. Hell, it could even feature a new group of heroes. The free marches have barely been explored, there's loads of room even in the same area.

[Ridrith]

Pretty much agree with the OP. Through out the entire game I did my best to do what I thought was right. I didn't allow blood magic users to go free and I did kill them on the spot. But the mages that I thought could be saved or weren't using blood magic I always let them go. Granted, I recommended they go back to the circle at least when and where I could. At the end I chose to protect the mages. I also gutted Anders with my knife for doing what he did. Still though, I found it to be some what annoying that the First Enchanter freaks out in the middle of the battle for no reason. Even though we were winning hand over fist. I can see it now.

First Enchanter: "No, I'm tired of running! His research was to dangerous, but I see now..."
Hawke: "Uh, first Enchanter... All of them are dead."
First Enchanter: "It's the only way! Maker help us a-- Wait, what? All dead?"
Hawke: "Yeah... Pretty easily at that. What exactly are you doing?"
First Enchanter: "... Nothing."

I still don't really understand why he turns into a harvester randomly...  But, uh.  I guess we'll just go with that.  I just feel a bit cheated.  I wish there was a way to talk both of them down from the pointless battle at the end.  Both of the "boss" fights were pretty boring.  Even the templar **** managed to annoy me, I wanted her sword and she went and broke it.

Modifié par Ridrith, 10 mars 2011 - 08:09 .

[Rhayth]

Absolutely its like we were holding them off, and Orsino just loses his f'n mind...I also found it stupid how now blood magic was less of an art to be learned and more of "If i cut myself it works!" Now in Orsino's case maybe he studied blood magic as a First Enchanter, but still for someone who never touched the stuff he proved to be a master of it within 3 seconds.

I killed Anders, I felt it was an act of mercy for what happened to him...not him being merged with Justice, but how the writing staff murdered him, and replaced him with some psychopath with a ponytail...his outfit was though

[leggywillow]

I was actually really impressed by how Bioware made siding with the templars seem like a viable option.  Before the game released, I (and probably many others) thought "Pssh, of course I'll side with the mages.  Who doesn't love the oppressed underdogs?"

But they gave you a TON of reasons to role-play a Hawke that's against them.  I think the templars still came across as a little too "MWAHAHA", but they really didn't shy away from showing just how dangerous the mages could be, especially with Hawke almost killing herself under the influence of a blood mage, the sadness with Leandra, and Anders doing his epic fail.

[Ridrith]

I was just thinking about something, is it possible for Anders not to blow up the chantry? I remember an option when I was talking to him... I think it was after the fade section, or right after he almost kills the mage girl. Can't you send him away? Tell him to leave the city? I asked him to stay, but if he leaves I wonder if that still happens.

[Mikka-chan]

The templars are just as stupid, so it didn't bug me too much.

...People in this game. Not that bright, sadly.

[abominare]

Ridrith wrote...

Pretty much agree with the OP. Through out the entire game I did my best to do what I thought was right. I didn't allow blood magic users to go free and I did kill them on the spot. But the mages that I thought could be saved or weren't using blood magic I always let them go. Granted, I recommended they go back to the circle at least when and where I could. At the end I chose to protect the mages. I also gutted Anders with my knife for doing what he did. Still though, I found it to be some what annoying that the First Enchanter freaks out in the middle of the battle for no reason. Even though we were winning hand over fist. I can see it now.

First Enchanter: "No, I'm tired of running! His research was to dangerous, but I see now..."
Hawke: "Uh, first Enchanter... All of them are dead."
First Enchanter: "It's the only way! Maker help us a-- Wait, what? All dead?"
Hawke: "Yeah... Pretty easily at that. What exactly are you doing?"
First Enchanter: "... Nothing."

I still don't really understand why he turns into a harvester randomly...  But, uh.  I guess we'll just go with that.  I just feel a bit cheated.  I wish there was a way to talk both of them down from the pointless battle at the end.  Both of the "boss" fights were pretty boring.  Even the templar **** managed to annoy me, I wanted her sword and she went and broke it.

Anders was doing what he thought was right. ( I maintain neither side in mage v templar is right but ill play devils advocate to your game expereience) Anders lived in a world where any mage was doomed to either hiding waiting to be killed by templars or being forced in a prison to never live a life of their choosing, and if some one did somethign bad enough(a blood mage in the circle right of anulment them all!) be prepared to be killed of just because you were a mage. Also welcome to a life of being blamed for the crimes of tevinter, the blight, and general scene as an evil force by most of the population.

Orsino's story is a sad one. Yes YOU might seem to be winning a battle but orsino sees his mages being killed and hunted along wiht their brethen in the whole of thedas because of what anders did. YOU wont be there to save all the other circles or protect every member of his circle and YOU arent guaranteed to survive the onslought of the thousands of templar that would eventually be sent as an army. Hes desperate and has lost hope because he has doomed himself into thinking that mages will always be treated with suspect to be killed on a whim of just the thought they might be blood mages. Hes watched the Knight Commander sentance them all to death for no fault of his own.

When a mage is scared, hopeless, and desperate a demon has little stopping him from corrupting even the strongest of mages.

What fustrates most people with this game is that hundreds of games have told them that they are powerful enough to change history, that there is a good and evil choice and that they will get to save the day and protect the people. Dragon Age defies the industry on this saying that while there will be no good vs evil here and you will not be able to save everyone. Most importantly people in the game dont have the absolute faith in you other game's npcs have they dont recognize that your the player character and will cause unicorns to fart rainbows for them and live happily ever after.

Modifié par abominare, 10 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[adneate]

Everything goes to hell no matter who you side with both the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter turn out to be totally nuts and nobody agrees on anything. There are "White" Circle Mages you help who don't use blood magic, there are those that just go nuts and turn into abominations and others who are just sick blood mages looking to kill things because they can now.

With the Templars you have the Knight-Commander who wants to massacre all mages everywhere for the actions of one sicko who's right in front of her. Then there are religious fanatics who have been waiting for this fight to happen and don't even care that innocent people are dead because now they get to do the "Maker's work" with their swords and axes. Then those that see they've pushed the Mages too far and they can't just keep going like this because it's not sustainable. Not to mention the Knight-Commander is some kind of lyrium idol addled demon possessed thing who turns on her own Templars as fast as she does the mages.

No matter what you do or how you feel both leaders die and both factions fall apart and fight each other and themselves.

[Rhayth]

Well Meredith can't really be completely shown in the light she was it did show the idol had alot to do with her going insane, and calling for the right against all mages in the city so its not fair to say that all Templars are so crazy.

Not saying I agree with the Templars, and yes mages can be dangerous, but your family is also proof of the opposite end of the spectrum that they can lead normal-ish lives, and not become insane abominations.

[adneate]

Rhayth wrote...
Not saying I agree with the Templars, and yes mages can be dangerous, but your family is also proof of the opposite end of the spectrum that they can lead normal-ish lives, and not become insane abominations.

And if you side with the Mages you will encounter a group of them fighting Templars in the city without using blood magic or summoning demons. No side has any clear moral high ground and both have people in them that are wrong and both have aspects that they're right in.

The great tragedy is that the Mages and Templars shouldn't be enemies and it was the actions of the few that drove the many to war.

[sylvanaerie]

What I found a welcome surprise is how sane Cullen was. Considering what happened in Ferelden's Circle, I expected Meredith to be shocked at HIS behavior, but she turned out to be the one who was stark mad. Cullen was a rare voice of reason in the game. Not saying he's all fluffy bunnies and rainbows but even he sees that the Knight Commander has gone too far. And joins in the fight at the end. He's also the first to back down from the Champion and her companions too, ending the aggression.
His character has matured greatly IMO and its a testament to the writing staff's quality character progression we see in this game that the characters present this over the course of years.
My character even called him "an old friend" when she spoke to him on those occasions she went to the Gallows courtyard.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 10 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[Blackout62]

Oh Anders you were such a well written tragic villain. When he blew up the cahantry I totally understood why he did it and and would have let him go if killing him as he lanquishs in post-explosion depression wasn't so damn dramatically appropriate.

Modifié par Blackout62, 10 mars 2011 - 10:08 .