He mentions that someone's research was too dangerous- but apparently he looked at it anyways, which is how he knew. (lol I play games almost completely muted- subtitles are my friend.)
Anyone feel a little cheated siding with mages? (spoilers)
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fantasypisces
, mars 10 2011 05:18
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#102
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 02:04
highcastle
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Valentia X wrote...
He mentions that someone's research was too dangerous- but apparently he looked at it anyways, which is how he knew. (lol I play games almost completely muted- subtitles are my friend.)
Not just anyone's research. Quentin's. As in the serial killer who assembled his dead wife using pieces of other women. That's why he pulled all those other corpses together. It's subtle, but it also explains why All That Remains was a main quest and not a secondary one.
#103
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 03:35
Billy 232011
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holy cow so im not the only one who sided with mages Gayy? i killed anders the fool now im doin the same thing new game siding with the templars
#104
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 03:41
Melra
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I sided with mages, because Hawke was a mage on that playthrough and I didn't want to lose Anders. I was hoping he'd come up with something reasonable, but I am not sure if he survives my next run through.
#105
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 03:45
Telemachus78
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I had the thinking that the templars were to blame because if you back a someone into a corner they are either going to do nothing or fight back with everything they have. If the templars never did all that they did none of this never would have happened.
#106
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 03:51
Jackitsu
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This was one of the most disappointing things about the game. It was utterly ridiculous.
I know they say a bunch of times that they're pushing the mages into a corner where they need blood magic even just to survive but it was just about every mage. The first enchanter bit made me so mad, Anders who I love so much made me mad...
Man... I am so disappointed with this game.
I know they say a bunch of times that they're pushing the mages into a corner where they need blood magic even just to survive but it was just about every mage. The first enchanter bit made me so mad, Anders who I love so much made me mad...
Man... I am so disappointed with this game.
#107
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 06:31
Rhaeem
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Just finished the game, I didn't felt cheated, not even by Orsino or Anders. I still think that Anders was I moron so he died for that.
Not every mage is bad. The Keeper did what she tought was best, she didn't acept the demon, only imprison it. Merrill learned her lesson in my opinion. And during the final moments, you encounter some mages that help you without blodd magic and others that run from Orsino when he transforms.
At that quest where your mother dies, there is a note from Orsino at the Blood Mage hiding. It is signed just "O", but since Orsino uses that same research later, we know its him. He is a crazy/bad mage since act two.
And one final thought: Kirkwall had a very thin veil, when all hell broke lose, it is possible that the veil got even thinner. That would alow demons to atack mages and posses them, since it can be done by force. So we can't simply say that every abomination you face at the end, and every demon was there because a mage willingly summoned them.
In the end I sided with the mages for the principle, not because of Orsino or Meredith or Anders. For the same reason my warden told Cullen at the Circle Tower (not the exact dialogue, but the meaning): "Yes I would risk an abomination escaping if that means saving inocents from being killed".
Not every mage is bad. The Keeper did what she tought was best, she didn't acept the demon, only imprison it. Merrill learned her lesson in my opinion. And during the final moments, you encounter some mages that help you without blodd magic and others that run from Orsino when he transforms.
At that quest where your mother dies, there is a note from Orsino at the Blood Mage hiding. It is signed just "O", but since Orsino uses that same research later, we know its him. He is a crazy/bad mage since act two.
And one final thought: Kirkwall had a very thin veil, when all hell broke lose, it is possible that the veil got even thinner. That would alow demons to atack mages and posses them, since it can be done by force. So we can't simply say that every abomination you face at the end, and every demon was there because a mage willingly summoned them.
In the end I sided with the mages for the principle, not because of Orsino or Meredith or Anders. For the same reason my warden told Cullen at the Circle Tower (not the exact dialogue, but the meaning): "Yes I would risk an abomination escaping if that means saving inocents from being killed".
#108
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 06:48
magicwins
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I dislike the fact that being a Champion means that I do not get to be the architect of positive change. In fact, since the epilogue is the same either way, and since neither cause is truly just, I just think it means that I am a highly skilled warrior, who managed to beat the Arishok. Which really doesn't mean too much to me.
What I'd like to be in a fantasy RPG is a legend. Someone who is the architect of massive, positive change, or survives unspeakable horrors, to emerge triumphant and strong. Watching the world collapse really doesn't seem legendary or championy to me. In fact, it makes me feel rather powerless. Isabela running away with the book of the Qun, Anders blowing up the Chantry, Orsino metamorphosing and Meredith possessed, the Arishok attacking me.... all made me feel powerless to make a difference.
For some random reason, I can't pursue Isabela. In my second playthrough I am forced to stare at Anders' face, knowing that no matter what I do, he will committ his acts of terrorism. I deeply respect the Arishok and his reasons for attacking my city, but I cannot side with him and recover his book.
Neither end game cause is 'just' or 'right'.
All those 'didn't feel epic enough' comments this game gets? Yeah, this is probably why.
Wow I did not realize that
. Thanks for pointing it out.
What I'd like to be in a fantasy RPG is a legend. Someone who is the architect of massive, positive change, or survives unspeakable horrors, to emerge triumphant and strong. Watching the world collapse really doesn't seem legendary or championy to me. In fact, it makes me feel rather powerless. Isabela running away with the book of the Qun, Anders blowing up the Chantry, Orsino metamorphosing and Meredith possessed, the Arishok attacking me.... all made me feel powerless to make a difference.
For some random reason, I can't pursue Isabela. In my second playthrough I am forced to stare at Anders' face, knowing that no matter what I do, he will committ his acts of terrorism. I deeply respect the Arishok and his reasons for attacking my city, but I cannot side with him and recover his book.
Neither end game cause is 'just' or 'right'.
All those 'didn't feel epic enough' comments this game gets? Yeah, this is probably why.
highcastle wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
He mentions that someone's research was too dangerous- but apparently he looked at it anyways, which is how he knew. (lol I play games almost completely muted- subtitles are my friend.)
Not just anyone's research. Quentin's. As in the serial killer who assembled his dead wife using pieces of other women. That's why he pulled all those other corpses together. It's subtle, but it also explains why All That Remains was a main quest and not a secondary one.
Wow I did not realize that
. Thanks for pointing it out.
#109
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 06:55
pprrff
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Do you guys transfer the hate for the ending into hate for the game? The ending sucks so the games sucks because of it.
Or is it more like you are disappointed at the ending, but love the game for building the narrative in such a way that makes the disappointment feel personal. Kind like how everyone hates Sauron but still enjoy Lord of the Ring.
Or is it more like you are disappointed at the ending, but love the game for building the narrative in such a way that makes the disappointment feel personal. Kind like how everyone hates Sauron but still enjoy Lord of the Ring.
#110
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 07:02
LadyWench
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Sjofn wrote...
Makes the whole "Alistair dumped me!" thing from DA:O seem lighthearted and adorable though.
LOL!!! So true! Thanks for making me laugh on an otherwise depressing topic. Yeah, The Hero of Ferelden's struggles suddenly don't seem half as bad as the Champions, huh?
#111
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 07:06
magicwins
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I was bored midway through the game. I did not hate the ending, and I am not part of that group that feels like the ending came too soon. In fact, I was wondering when this game would 'get over already'.pprrff wrote...
Do you guys transfer the hate for the ending into hate for the game? The ending sucks so the games sucks because of it.
Or is it more like you are disappointed at the ending, but love the game for building the narrative in such a way that makes the disappointment feel personal. Kind like how everyone hates Sauron but still enjoy Lord of the Ring.
#112
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 07:26
pprrff
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magicwins wrote...
I was bored midway through the game. I did not hate the ending, and I am not part of that group that feels like the ending came too soon. In fact, I was wondering when this game would 'get over already'.pprrff wrote...
Do you guys transfer the hate for the ending into hate for the game? The ending sucks so the games sucks because of it.
Or is it more like you are disappointed at the ending, but love the game for building the narrative in such a way that makes the disappointment feel personal. Kind like how everyone hates Sauron but still enjoy Lord of the Ring.
I can understand where you are coming from, I will admit that DA II is a different creature from DAO, and so people who loved the first one won't automatically like the sequel. But hey, there will also be people who find the sequel more intriguing, so I'd say spread love. People who like DAO will always have DAO, and now people who didn't like DAO will have something they like.
#113
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 07:35
TexasToast712
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I dont see all templars as bad and I dont see all Mages as bad but I sided with the mages as I realised that Meredith was a crazy b*tch. I wish there was a neutral ending . I realised that Meredith was crazy and needed to be put down but I didnt want to necesarily cause all mages across Thedas to rebel. Not all Circles are bad and not all templars are abusive psychopaths.
#114
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 07:53
Gerudan
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I found this kinda stupid, too.
Especially since I help them, and they still turn on me and attack me, were is the sense in that?
Especially since I help them, and they still turn on me and attack me, were is the sense in that?
#115
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 07:57
stuman89
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I sided with the Templars even though Meredith was positively insane. I was maybe going to be pro-mage, but once Anders committed his terrorism it proved that the mages were more dangerous than Templars.
What did bother me was how none of the Chantry higher-ups were watching over Meredith to realize she was completely out of line. They would have gotten reports that a FAR higher than normal amount of mages were being killed/made tranquil and she would've been stopped earlier.
Stupid Anders, I hated him. Completely worthless besides the very basic healing spells he had.
What did bother me was how none of the Chantry higher-ups were watching over Meredith to realize she was completely out of line. They would have gotten reports that a FAR higher than normal amount of mages were being killed/made tranquil and she would've been stopped earlier.
Stupid Anders, I hated him. Completely worthless besides the very basic healing spells he had.
#116
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 08:16
focoe
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see, i understand dragon age is supposed to be a really dark contrast to the industry norm, but they also toot their horns about you making decisions and your decisions change your environment.
i read someones comment about how rpgs give use choices but ultimately we are forced down a path no matter what. being able to choose, to me, should mean that i am given every option thinkable.
i should be able to choose to kill meredith in the begning of act three, convincing people shes nuts.
i should be able to be nuetral to the end, yet still have to kill orsinus and meredith somehow (running into them both while trying to escape with my family and friends?)
what got me the most was in my playthrough i was pro-mage the entire time, yet when orsinus sent me to spy on the meetings, they assume im for meredith and attack me. im given no choice to NOT kill them. even if im not given a choice to refuse to fight and try to say im on their side, i should at least be given a choice to defeat them, and NOt kill them. we arent talking about me thrwing a bomb and killing them al here, im a mage i can paralyze and freeze people here. but i have to kill them all, and then i end up killing a second group, even though they were the very same people i DID help earlier and even lied to help them be free. i thought that was rediculous.
it is also my belief that if hawke was so well known and such an inspiration to the mages i chose to side with, that they would be like my hawke and choose to die before surrendering to demons.
which brings me to another question...whats the big deal with blood anyway? the da:o and da2 tree doesnt really benefit me greatly so i dont get how its 'powerful'
i read someones comment about how rpgs give use choices but ultimately we are forced down a path no matter what. being able to choose, to me, should mean that i am given every option thinkable.
i should be able to choose to kill meredith in the begning of act three, convincing people shes nuts.
i should be able to be nuetral to the end, yet still have to kill orsinus and meredith somehow (running into them both while trying to escape with my family and friends?)
what got me the most was in my playthrough i was pro-mage the entire time, yet when orsinus sent me to spy on the meetings, they assume im for meredith and attack me. im given no choice to NOT kill them. even if im not given a choice to refuse to fight and try to say im on their side, i should at least be given a choice to defeat them, and NOt kill them. we arent talking about me thrwing a bomb and killing them al here, im a mage i can paralyze and freeze people here. but i have to kill them all, and then i end up killing a second group, even though they were the very same people i DID help earlier and even lied to help them be free. i thought that was rediculous.
it is also my belief that if hawke was so well known and such an inspiration to the mages i chose to side with, that they would be like my hawke and choose to die before surrendering to demons.
which brings me to another question...whats the big deal with blood anyway? the da:o and da2 tree doesnt really benefit me greatly so i dont get how its 'powerful'
Modifié par focoe, 11 mars 2011 - 10:12 .
#117
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 08:22
ExiledMimic
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While the ending was, as I was sure, executed as intended, there were key pieces missing. Most people are mad at the sudden nature of most things. I think someone acknowledged you don't get to see good mages fleeing, just dying to Templar charges. You also don't seem to have the full range of options. Not that you should even be able to diffuse the situation, but even a second of attempt (that will fail) would just have made it richer for me. Also if the First Enchanter had shown some signs during the battle that he was slipping and you just failed to save him as well, it would have felt better. Not because it happened, but because you did fail.
If the point of the game is to either fail horribly at being a staple of sanity, or succumbing to madness yourself and being the king of the hill (so to speak) then those small cracks before the full avalanche would have made it more satisfying. Also the story choices you get to make (Anders being one) are seriously tainted by his strong combative role. Who would seriously want to take on the boss fight at the end of a DA game without a healer? (Or Shale tanking, God I miss that rock monster...) That, more than anything affected my decision.
Also I sided with the mages almost completely because of my sister. Personally if I thought I could have grabbed her and ran for it on Isabella's ship I'd have gathered up whoever was left and watched the city burn from the port. On a mage playthrough I'd side with mages again if it meant killing Carver. The point made here is that choices made in this game feel incomplete. Not that I want resolution, but that I see huge leaps from "Help save us" to "F your couch!" In the span of minutes. I don't see the small things that influence it even when I'm standing right there. The idea was massive and cudos, but something in the last 20 minutes lost it's self in translation. Where in Origins those last 20-30 minutes were perhaps the single most epic moments of a video game in history.
If the point of the game is to either fail horribly at being a staple of sanity, or succumbing to madness yourself and being the king of the hill (so to speak) then those small cracks before the full avalanche would have made it more satisfying. Also the story choices you get to make (Anders being one) are seriously tainted by his strong combative role. Who would seriously want to take on the boss fight at the end of a DA game without a healer? (Or Shale tanking, God I miss that rock monster...) That, more than anything affected my decision.
Also I sided with the mages almost completely because of my sister. Personally if I thought I could have grabbed her and ran for it on Isabella's ship I'd have gathered up whoever was left and watched the city burn from the port. On a mage playthrough I'd side with mages again if it meant killing Carver. The point made here is that choices made in this game feel incomplete. Not that I want resolution, but that I see huge leaps from "Help save us" to "F your couch!" In the span of minutes. I don't see the small things that influence it even when I'm standing right there. The idea was massive and cudos, but something in the last 20 minutes lost it's self in translation. Where in Origins those last 20-30 minutes were perhaps the single most epic moments of a video game in history.
#118
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 08:38
Exile Isan
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focoe wrote...
where was my choice to to kill meredith in the begining of act 3 to avoid a war?
You think that would've prevented a war? I don't. IMO, it would have triggered an Exalted March on Kirkwall. Because seen from the outside it would have been as Cassandra had thought that they all came to Kirkwall to sow seeds of Chaos and dissent. And then assinated the highest ranking Templer in the city, which the Chantry would have seen as an attack on their faith and faithful. Not what really happened, that the Knight-Commander was abusing her power and backed the mages into a corner where they felt they had no recourse besides blood magic.
Modifié par Exile Isan, 11 mars 2011 - 08:45 .
#119
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 08:47
Red_warning
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The ending was a big let down in general I'd say. So many questions unanswered, as if all my hard work would've been for nothing.
What happened to Varrics Brother (after the quest involving him)?
Did Bodan and Sandal make it out of town in time?
What the hell were the Gray wardens doing in Kirkwall?
Did Avelines new love survive the final battle?
Exactly why did the champion run, and why were I given no alternatives?
Rally, what was the point of the interrogation? You didn't even get to meet Cassandra.
After playing this game for a while, I got the feeling that every option and every choice was a bad one and would only have negative consequences.
I still enjoyed the majority of the game though, but the ending could be a lot better as I said...
What happened to Varrics Brother (after the quest involving him)?
Did Bodan and Sandal make it out of town in time?
What the hell were the Gray wardens doing in Kirkwall?
Did Avelines new love survive the final battle?
Exactly why did the champion run, and why were I given no alternatives?
Rally, what was the point of the interrogation? You didn't even get to meet Cassandra.
After playing this game for a while, I got the feeling that every option and every choice was a bad one and would only have negative consequences.
I still enjoyed the majority of the game though, but the ending could be a lot better as I said...
#120
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 08:49
ExiledMimic
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Exile Isan wrote...
You think that would've prevented a war? I don't. IMO, it would have triggered an Exalted March on Kirkwall. Because seen from the outside it would have been as Cassandra had thought that they all came to Kirkwall to sow seeds of Chaos and dissent. And then assinated the highest ranking Templer in the city, which the Chantry would have seen as an attack on their faith and faithful. Not what really happened, that the Knight-Commander was abusing her power and backed the mages into a corner where they felt they had no recourse besides blood magic.
See that alone would have made the ending feel so much better. I didn't even think on it until you said something, but there being an honest difference in what you have to do depending on who you side with could have made that last 30 minutes more rewarding. But instead all you do is pick a side and you still kill both both leaders. If we could have fought an Exhalted March off or something that could have felt more epic, even if the end result was the same.
#121
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 09:17
rumination888
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I had no compulsion to side with the mages and slaughter Templars who were on the
verge of overthrowing Meredith. From the previous quests it was painfully obvious that, if Anders hadn't been so stupid, Meredith would've been overthrown sooner or later by the Templars themselves. Anders pretty much gave them all a reason, no matter how flawed, to follow Meredith's crazy plan of anullment.
And so, despite supporting Anders and the mages throughout the entire game, I sided with the Templars. I let Anders go, due to his friendship with Hawke, but he came back and forced a confrontation that resulted in him dying anyways. The best thing about siding with the Templars is that you can run into a group of non-blood mages and you're given the option to spare their lives. I could even get Bethany to join my side. That was a nice touch for my Hawke, who sided with Templars in the hopes that the devs would allow me to undermine Meredith's command. Overall, I was very satisfied with the Templar ending.
verge of overthrowing Meredith. From the previous quests it was painfully obvious that, if Anders hadn't been so stupid, Meredith would've been overthrown sooner or later by the Templars themselves. Anders pretty much gave them all a reason, no matter how flawed, to follow Meredith's crazy plan of anullment.
And so, despite supporting Anders and the mages throughout the entire game, I sided with the Templars. I let Anders go, due to his friendship with Hawke, but he came back and forced a confrontation that resulted in him dying anyways. The best thing about siding with the Templars is that you can run into a group of non-blood mages and you're given the option to spare their lives. I could even get Bethany to join my side. That was a nice touch for my Hawke, who sided with Templars in the hopes that the devs would allow me to undermine Meredith's command. Overall, I was very satisfied with the Templar ending.
Modifié par rumination888, 11 mars 2011 - 09:30 .
#122
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 09:24
King Killoth
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I was originally going to side with the mages but after what anders did I sided with the templars. I killed anders I think I made him a mater. then I hunted down the mages and after killing the first enchanter who was useing the blood magic used to kill my hawks mother I really liked killing him. than after that Meredith turned on me but all her templars joined me and I kicked her butt till she turned to stone. than I became King with merill as my elven queen.
#123
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 09:33
focoe
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what bothers me the most isnt the fact that omg im cornered facing certain death whatever am i to do oh ill just use it this once.
the fact that they all denounce it, say that theyd never do it theyd rather fight or doe etc. then all do it. i cant believe that after seeing abomination after abomination roaming around theyd still allow themselves to turn. i cant fathom it at all.
the fact that they all denounce it, say that theyd never do it theyd rather fight or doe etc. then all do it. i cant believe that after seeing abomination after abomination roaming around theyd still allow themselves to turn. i cant fathom it at all.
#124
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 09:46
TeamLexana
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I think I'm going to side with the Templars and it's all Anders fault so he's gonna die. 
#125
Posté 11 mars 2011 - 10:08
Jaulen
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stuman89 wrote...
I sided with the Templars even though Meredith was positively insane. I was maybe going to be pro-mage, but once Anders committed his terrorism it proved that the mages were more dangerous than Templars.
What did bother me was how none of the Chantry higher-ups were watching over Meredith to realize she was completely out of line. They would have gotten reports that a FAR higher than normal amount of mages were being killed/made tranquil and she would've been stopped earlier.
Stupid Anders, I hated him. Completely worthless besides the very basic healing spells he had.
Ah, but through religious fanatasism, Templars and the Chantry can control the minds of the weak and impressionable just as effectively as a blood mage. And which is worse? To have your mind controlled so you have no choice, or to have your mind controlled so it is YOU making the choices?
Personally, I'd rather be controlled by a blood mage than be brainwashed to the point that I'd do something bad by my own choice.
*EDIT*
And to all you b*tching about how ALL the mages turned to blood magic. Go look a little further upthread for DG's comment. Because what DG says is exactly what I thought...gameplay. The good mages have 1)either already run away or 2) been cut down by the Templars.
Modifié par Jaulen, 11 mars 2011 - 10:13 .
