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[MerchantGOL]

Do the mages turn to blood magic because they're brutally oppressed, or do the templars oppress them because the mages are dangerous?

[maxbarton]

The mage ending and the game in general still gives the impression that almost no mage actually stands on principles or honor. Instead most of them have researched blood magic and use it to full effect. DA:O taught us that it's a trained skill so obviously they had to learn it, so most of them had already compromised themselves.

[MerchantGOL]

Merril says though its not inherently evil though

[maxbarton]

And Merril looses her master because she believes that.

[igot99problems]

I didn't feel cheated by the ending, but it absolutely shocked me. First, when Anders turns into a psychopathic killer I was absolutely stunned. And then having to choose to kill him or not (I killed him...) It took me over an hour to finally push the button. I was sure I was making the right choice by siding with the mages, only to hate myself for going against the Templars (who are just doing their job) when It turned out I was working with crazy blood mages...

[MerchantGOL]

maxbarton wrote...

And Merril looses her master because she believes that.

true but i blame that more on the demon

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 11 mars 2011 - 10:49 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

highcastle wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

He mentions that someone's research was too dangerous- but apparently he looked at it anyways, which is how he knew. (lol I play games almost completely muted- subtitles are my friend.)

Not just anyone's research. Quentin's. As in the serial killer who assembled his dead wife using pieces of other women. That's why he pulled all those other corpses together. It's subtle, but it also explains why All That Remains was a main quest and not a secondary one.

Oh so Quentin somehow found out about the Harvesters? I Mean that's what Orsino turned into.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Well, the world is now on the brink of war.. the future DLC/Expansions will probably be about Hawke fixing the mess Orsino and Meredith left.

Think of it as this... it's Ragnarok, Revelations, The Apocalypse, whatever Dragon Age calls it.

[Steve236]

in the end Cassandra also said a large number of templars defected to the mage side.

[HolyJellyfish]

I didn't feel cheated. I think the game makes it perfectly clear that Mages would NOT resort to blood magic & demon dealings unless they absolutely had to, in order to survive.

If the Mages weren't facing a complete genocide by Meredith's hands, I somehow doubt we'd see as many demon dealings as we did.

Even Orsino regretted his actions as he summoned the "Forbidden Magic", turning himself into a fleshy golem. But he felt like he had absolutely no choice, in order to save the many innocents who were being slaughtered. Keep in mind, it seemed like all the good happy healthy non-demon Mages were getting killed off faster than the ones who were making deals. I was under the impression that a majority of the circle were not abominations, and the few you actually encountered in the final fight were those who felt they had no choice in order to survive and protect their loved ones.

[HolyJellyfish]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Well, the world is now on the brink of war.. the future DLC/Expansions will probably be about Hawke fixing the mess Orsino and Meredith left.

Think of it as this... it's Ragnarok, Revelations, The Apocalypse, whatever Dragon Age calls it.

Maybe. I was under the impression the DLC/Expansions may go into more detail about the years between Act 1 & Act 2, and  Act 2 & Act 3.

[HolyJellyfish]

maxbarton wrote...

The mage ending and the game in general still gives the impression that almost no mage actually stands on principles or honor. Instead most of them have researched blood magic and use it to full effect. DA:O taught us that it's a trained skill so obviously they had to learn it, so most of them had already compromised themselves.

That is up to interpretation.

I was under the impression a majority of the mages in the circle DID stand on principles of honor, and as such were killed off swiftly and with ease by the Templars. The few that were abominations were the only ones who survived (and that you had the pleasure of meeting).

If the entire circle had become abominations, it would have been far more difficult to walk through the templar halls and into the final fight with Meredith.

[maxbarton]

HolyJellyfish wrote...


That is up to interpretation.

I was under the impression a majority of the mages in the circle DID stand on principles of honor, and as such were killed off swiftly and with ease by the Templars. The few that were abominations were the only ones who survived (and that you had the pleasure of meeting).

If the entire circle had become abominations, it would have been far more difficult to walk through the templar halls and into the final fight with Meredith.

I don't know... Sandal killed quite a few :happy:

But by that time so many had been made tranquil and outright killed I wouldn't expect there to have been many left anyway.  The game still leans toward mages going blood mage once they escape in order to stay free.  Blood magic is still a trained skill that you have to learn from a demon or other blood mage if not in the Imperium, so for so many to exist draws away from the majority not being blood mages.

Of course somehow Hawke just inherently knows blood magic

I'll just assume Merril taught him to logic that one out.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Well, the world is now on the brink of war.. the future DLC/Expansions will probably be about Hawke fixing the mess Orsino and Meredith left.

Think of it as this... it's Ragnarok, Revelations, The Apocalypse, whatever Dragon Age calls it.

Maybe. I was under the impression the DLC/Expansions may go into more detail about the years between Act 1 & Act 2, and  Act 2 & Act 3.

Well, probably some of it will, yes. But, I'm sure eventually they'll put out an expansion, and probably mini-expansions like Golems and Witch Hunt, to bring us up to Dragon Age 3.

[ExiledMimic]

The thing that bugged me is you never see yourself saving a single mage. Even Frenchie who you let get lucky before you took em back. It seems to me that you do more for the mages by siding with Templars and setting the innocent ones free before taking the throne. And the First Enchanter going all golem thingy? That should have been an option, not some forced decision. Small things like that make things heavily replayable.

[KingEddie]

Hey I sided with the mages and I got to the docks how do you kill all those shades and that monster thing?

[fantasypisces]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Well, the world is now on the brink of war.. the future DLC/Expansions will probably be about Hawke fixing the mess Orsino and Meredith left.

Think of it as this... it's Ragnarok, Revelations, The Apocalypse, whatever Dragon Age calls it.

Maybe. I was under the impression the DLC/Expansions may go into more detail about the years between Act 1 & Act 2, and  Act 2 & Act 3.

Well, probably some of it will, yes. But, I'm sure eventually they'll put out an expansion, and probably mini-expansions like Golems and Witch Hunt, to bring us up to Dragon Age 3.

My problem is just that those expansions that take place after the story (ala Witch Hunt) are probably a year and a half away. I think one reason everyone is complainign so heavily about the ending being abrupt and not telling you anything is because video game cycles are sooo long.  So not getting much closure to anything in a game is much worse than, say, not getting closure in a tv show (you can replace closure with ending in a cliffhanger if you wish).

Because of how long you have to wait between games is a reason I think this ending is leaving such a bitter taste in peoples mouths. Because I agree, in the beginning all DLC will take place during the rise to power (which I personally, unlike in Origins, now have no interest in).

[TeamLexana]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Well, the world is now on the brink of war.. the future DLC/Expansions will probably be about Hawke fixing the mess Orsino and Meredith left.

Think of it as this... it's Ragnarok, Revelations, The Apocalypse, whatever Dragon Age calls it.

Maybe. I was under the impression the DLC/Expansions may go into more detail about the years between Act 1 & Act 2, and  Act 2 & Act 3.

That's what I think too. More particularly, I think there will be a dlc for that first year from where Hawke was working with the smugglers/mercanaries because it sounded like Varric left alot out of what happened there.

[fantasypisces]

KingEddie wrote...

Hey I sided with the mages and I got to the docks how do you kill all those shades and that monster thing?

That was the hardest fight in the entire game for me. I played it on normal and just ended up running everyone into the corner where the pride demon spawns and throwing down as much aoe as possible in the archway that they have to go through to get to you.

My archer then sniped the blood mage. Once the shades were significantly wounded Fenris and Isabela worked on the pride demon while my archer picked off all the shades (hoorah 103% crit chance). Anders (because I kept him, he was my love, I couldn't kill him) then did healing, debuffs, occasional chain lightning, or went into his healer mode if everyone got low on health.

Took a couple of tries.

[lx_theo]

I think the game did a bunch of the evil Mage stuff to offset the opression of the mages.

The point does seem to be one side evil and one side good. If you left out the reminders of how easily it happens, then the oppression really seems unwarranted and the Templars become the evil side.

[screamin_jesus]

cainx10a wrote...

Bottom-line is, no matter who wins the war, the world will go down the drain for the losers. Mages and Templars simply cannot compromise. The Tevinter imperium seems to be the perfect example of what will happen if the Mages win.  Even with benevolent guardians, blood mages are still a threat that are simply too damn powerful to deal with. There are way too many cases of good mages turning into blood mages out of desperation, sure, I get it, my Hawke is a blood mage, but thanks to a ****ty skillset he is as much a threat to a low level enemy as he is to himself, while blood mages like Denerius' girl would kill non-magic users on a whim, just because she can. Do you honestly want your citizens to be whisked away so that some Blood Mage noble could piece together his dead wife from ages ago?

Again, my main character, in both DA:O, and DA2 is a Mage, a good little man helping others in need irrespective of height, gender, or ear-size, but the mages I have had to deal with in DA 2 just makes my stomach churn. The templars, in all their fanatical devotion to non-existent god, and their duties, are sadly right in doing so. While there may be good mages, the few bad apples are more than enough to cause a large-scale catastrophy. (Thanks Anders).

I did want to murder Anders if it weren't for the fact that he was my party healer (can't believe a game mechanic would get in the way of storytelling like that), but all those mages who died during the endgame, their blood is on his hand.
Oh well, next playthrough, gonna side with the Templar. 

I had the same problem (not being able to kill anders) my only other healer was my sister and she was taken to the circle. I actually did kill anders at first but wasn't able to make it 3 feet without him because of the difficulty spike at the end, had to reload my save and reluctantly not kill him :/

My goddamn sister is standing RIGHT THERE, why the hell can't you get her back in your party if you decide to kill anders?

[Raycer X]

I'm incredibly disappointed with the ending. I spent the entire time trying to convince everyone that mages are good people but are getting screwed over because of a couple of bad eggs and then Bioware pulls off the ending. I feel like I got kicked on the balls for all the time I spent trying to help them out. In my "perfect" playthrough, I'm going to play Hawke the mage hunter/slayer, a mage who hunts down other mages...

[Dapper Pomegranate]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Do the mages turn to blood magic because they're brutally oppressed, or do the templars oppress them because the mages are dangerous?

Both? It's a vicious circle, like the chicken and the egg, only with abominations...Surely one of the groups started all the trouble long ago, but by now it's too ingrained.

[LPPrince]

I had to go with the Templars. I didn't want to at first since Meredith was the one pushing for the expunging of mages' powers and all their tranquility being made along with her increasing insanity.

But why was like every friggen mage using blood magic? Jesus Christ.

They needed to be put under control. Especially after Anders.........

[OmegaBlue0231]

They did what they had to in order to try to gain what had unjustly been taken away; their freedom. Not all the mages used blood magic, just the first enchanter and some of the rouge mages, and maybe Hawke

Also they added in the first enchanter using blood magic to make it less black and white and more of a moral grey area.