552 réponses à ce sujet

[Shazzie]

I knew what was coming, from the moment I accepted the Justice quest. I knew it, even though I'd never read a spoiler about it.
Sela Petrae? Saltpeter. That got me nervous. And then...Drakestone? Sulfur, I do believe. And then he says (paraphrase) '...mix it all together, and ...boom. Justice and I are free.'
He actually says 'boom'. I knew, right then...
...I just had no idea it was going to be such a huge boom.

I'm still processing it, and it's been days.

[EmperorZorn]

Its funny how this forum puts more thought into story and characters than the people in charge of it did.

[Killjoy Cutter]

EmperorZorn wrote...

Its funny how this forum puts more thought into story and characters than the people in charge of it did.

Does seem that way sometimes, doesn't it? 

Of course, we don't know what ends up left behind the scenes because of the constraints of designing a video game.

[Ambeth]

Shazzie wrote...

I knew what was coming, from the moment I accepted the Justice quest. I knew it, even though I'd never read a spoiler about it.
Sela Petrae? Saltpeter. That got me nervous. And then...Drakestone? Sulfur, I do believe. And then he says (paraphrase) '...mix it all together, and ...boom. Justice and I are free.'
He actually says 'boom'. I knew, right then...
...I just had no idea it was going to be such a huge boom.

I'm still processing it, and it's been days.

I believe my comment to myself was "'Potion' my ***, Anders.  'Boom' indeed."

[highcastle]

I didn't quite come up with the bomb part, but I knew something was up. And then when he tried to give Varric his pillow, I got worried he was going to do something blatantly suicidal. Which he did. I just wasn't expecting it to be so grandiose.

I just finished my second playthrough, by the way. I swear that scene just gets more epic with every watching.

[Sarah1281]

I think the abuses of the Templars are greatly exagerated. The only verified abusers were dealt with by Hawke. Bethany, a woman who spent most of her life free, didn't think the circle was the total hell some people paint it as, and good Templars are better represented in the game than good mages.

Bethany also says that she feels that she wouldn't be able to fully understand what life was like for mages without having to endure the circle herself at the end of the game. I think it's pretty clear she didn't enjoy her time there.

And what are the odds that Hawke personally observed and dealt with all or even a significant portion of the abuses that went on in Kirkwall? I know that every other mage you met was a blood mage or abomination but everyone acts like this is a very unusual situation (outside of the Tevinter, I guess). What other explanation is there for the Kirkwall mages being so much more likely to go crazy and turn to blood magic and demons besides the fact Kirkwall has some of the worst mage treatment around?

[TheGoddess0fWar]

Because Kirkwall was a hiding place for apostates. They wanted their freedom which they were denied. Scared and backed into a corner they HAD to turn to blood magic and demon offers. From what we hear, the circle @ the gallows is HORRIBLE.

[Sarah1281]

That's not really a different explanation than the one I said. Mage treatment was horrible (i.e. they wanted their freedom and were denied as well as several other abuses) and these abuses only make the blood mage/demon problem worse.

I don't think Kirkwall is really a haven for blood mages. In the beginning of the game, Bethany even protests going there because of how strong the templar presence is. It would be a HORRIBLE place for blood mages to flock to so it really seems like the only ones there are the ones already in the Free Marches.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 mars 2011 - 06:25 .

[Briana Crux]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's not really a different explanation than the one I said. Mage treatment was horrible (i.e. they wanted their freedom and were denied as well as several other abuses) and these abuses only make the blood mage/demon problem worse.

I don't think Kirkwall is really a haven for blood mages. In the beginning of the game, Bethany even protests going there because of how strong the templar presence is. It would be a HORRIBLE place for blood mages to flock to so it really seems like the only ones there are the ones already in the Free Marches.

I believe this too. I dont think that Kirkwall was harboring bloodmages. I believe that because the Templars were so unyeilding and their grip was tightening more and mroe and more on the mages it made them feel desperate. They probably felt like Anders did. That there was no way to find a compramise with people like Meridith. The only difference is, is they turned to blood magic to seek freedom.

And I think we all need to atleast remember that although what Anders did was horrible.. he did not resort to bloodmagic. it shows atleast some control, some type of moral scale in that head of his.

[tallon1982]

What was it that Pippin said in Lord of the Rings...Ah yes The closer we are to danger, the farther we are from harm.

[Yriss]

Ke11iente wrote...

Like a few others have mentioned, I was totally going to side with the mages until Anders did that. Then I turned templar.

Anders was my LI, but there were many innocent people in that chantry, and the Grand Cleric was the only sensible leader throughout the whole game.

This.

At that exact moment, I very strongly wanted to drop everything I had fought for and join the fight with the templars... but then I remembered that I did work hard to defend good mages. So, I still sided with mages.

And then Orsino pulls off his crap and I felt doubly betrayed!

Oh, and Anders was my love interest (only flirted) until I chose Fenris. After Orsino, I couldn't help but understand Fenris' views more. I should have listened.

To respond to the original question, my reaction was, "Dear goodness, no... Anders, what have you done? *insert incredulous face here* "

P.S. Loved the ending.

[tallon1982]

I don't get how the Grand Cleric was sensible as a leader she did nothing to stop the events that occurred during the Qunari invasion nor the escalating problems between the Templar and Mages. She just sort of threw up her hands and tossed it to the Maker. That's not effective leadership. A leader makes the hard choices when no one else will and takes on the responsiblity. The GC should have been advising the Viscount and resolving the issues between Templar and Mages. I still think she should of left when told to or stepped down.

[VampOrchid]

Mine was "bout time someone did that!"

[Miri1984]

tallon1982 wrote...

I don't get how the Grand Cleric was sensible as a leader she did nothing to stop the events that occurred during the Qunari invasion nor the escalating problems between the Templar and Mages. She just sort of threw up her hands and tossed it to the Maker. That's not effective leadership. A leader makes the hard choices when no one else will and takes on the responsiblity. The GC should have been advising the Viscount and resolving the issues between Templar and Mages. I still think she should of left when told to or stepped down.

This.

Also, there's another reason why there are so many abominations and blood mages in Kirkwall. One of the codexes you get says that the veil is unusually thin there - more so than the rest of Thedas, so it's much easier to access demons and spirits than it would be elsewhere. Blood magic IS easier there, and mages are more likely to be possessed as well. Certainly you don't seem to run into any where NEAR as many blood mages and abominations in Ferelden.

This could also be one of the reasons why even before Meredith went mad the Templars in Kirkwall were more than usually harsh to the mages.

[graciegrace]

if you tell him to go away after you do his Act 2 quest does he still just show up out of nowhere and do this?

[GunMoth]

Miri1984 wrote...

tallon1982 wrote...

I don't get how the Grand Cleric was sensible as a leader she did nothing to stop the events that occurred during the Qunari invasion nor the escalating problems between the Templar and Mages. She just sort of threw up her hands and tossed it to the Maker. That's not effective leadership. A leader makes the hard choices when no one else will and takes on the responsiblity. The GC should have been advising the Viscount and resolving the issues between Templar and Mages. I still think she should of left when told to or stepped down.

This.

Also, there's another reason why there are so many abominations and blood mages in Kirkwall. One of the codexes you get says that the veil is unusually thin there - more so than the rest of Thedas, so it's much easier to access demons and spirits than it would be elsewhere. Blood magic IS easier there, and mages are more likely to be possessed as well. Certainly you don't seem to run into any where NEAR as many blood mages and abominations in Ferelden.

This could also be one of the reasons why even before Meredith went mad the Templars in Kirkwall were more than usually harsh to the mages.

I think the reason why the Grand Cleric didn't do much is because she knew she truly had no power, or that it was simply "too much". Imagine walking into a room and seeing a ball of yarn that is extremely tangled. You can say "That is tangled" and be right, but you may not be able to untangle it. You can try, but it would be a waste of time. 

She knew where she stood, she just didn't really know how to figure it all out from a socio-political stand point. For example, when the Qunari shoots sister Patrice, she walks up the stairs slowly and simply says "Call the Viscount" instead of rushing down flailing her arms about spouting laws or rules. EDIT: She also couldn't act as a voice because we all know the Viscount cared more about his political presence. He wanted to keep Kirkwall calm and collected. By siding with the Qunari and choosing a mage / templar side, he could loose a LOT of political power and start civil wars. 

She is VERY neutral. 
And yeah, ontop of the thin vail, I'm sure that the feeling of oppression caused by the atmosphere the mages were kept in didn't help. Coupled with violence and rape, I would probably make a deal with a demon to smite some templars. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 17 mars 2011 - 10:09 .

[Sarah1281]

That's just the argument a rival Hawke can make and Anders considers it...until Justice intervenes.

[Torax]

In the end Anders sides with Vengeance/Justice. It's far more about Vengeance than Anders. So for example if the Grand Cleric had spoken out about the abuses of the mages? Anders would have been a bit more appeased but Vengeance/Justice would not have. Anders knew that by using Magic in that way would have hurt mages greatly. Vengeance formerly known as Justice, would have only seen the past abuses and only wants the death of the Order and Destruction of the Circle.

Anders knew that the Circle doesn't work but he also points out how it's where mostly how Mages really get trained for the most part. Justice would have cared about the innocent mages but Vengeance does not. He basically hates the Templars and to a point hated the Circle and all of it's inhabitants for in his mind accepting their plight. Sure there was this offshoot branch of the circle that helping to drive the fight and the blood magic. Many resorted to blood magic for the power. But Anders and Vengeance were I'm sure in on that to or aware and allowed it.

I pretty much always will kill Anders for what Vengeance probably drove him to do. I only let him live on my first play through but never again. Just because unlike Vengeance, I believe in Justice.

[lockdown51]

Anders sparked a revolution over a cat. We cannot condone this.

[Morgora]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

I love the range of responses everyone has to Anders's actions. We really wanted to create a situation without a clear-cut right and wrong. I wrote Anders, Sebastian, Bethany, Leandra, Elthina and Cullen, so I've certainly seen every side of the argument. Personally, my view of it is that Anders wants to blow up the Chantry AND wants to die for it -- that way he gets the revolution he/Justice believes is necessary, but still gives justice to those who died in the Chantry. Though I like the poetic justice of forcing him to live in the world his actions create.

My character was in a romance with Anders. I let him live, but broke off the romance. The only reason I let him live was because I needed a healer for the final fight. I had no idea that Bethany would be an available party member again by that point in the story. Now, I know to keep a Maker's Sigh potion in inventory. Of course, that is not to say that the whole Anders situation did not distress me. I'm very upset at what he did!

 GODDAMNIT ANDERS!

[solution_nine]

Ambeth wrote...

Shazzie wrote...

I knew what was coming, from the moment I accepted the Justice quest. I knew it, even though I'd never read a spoiler about it.
Sela Petrae? Saltpeter. That got me nervous. And then...Drakestone? Sulfur, I do believe. And then he says (paraphrase) '...mix it all together, and ...boom. Justice and I are free.'
He actually says 'boom'. I knew, right then...
...I just had no idea it was going to be such a huge boom.

I'm still processing it, and it's been days.

I believe my comment to myself was "'Potion' my ***, Anders.  'Boom' indeed."

My comment to myself was, "Ugh god, Anders, you'd better be grateful I love you 'cos I'm stomping around in a goddamn sewer 8["

I definitely suspected he was going to off himself, though. I was kind of afraid to finish the game for that reason.

[Luridel]

The only reason I spoiled myself for the ending was because I was convinced/terrified that he was going to commit suicide inside the chantry while Hawke talked to the Grand Cleric, and I wanted to make sure that wasn't going to happen before I continued playing.

Well.

[Briana Crux]

Torax wrote...

In the end Anders sides with Vengeance/Justice. It's far more about Vengeance than Anders. So for example if the Grand Cleric had spoken out about the abuses of the mages? Anders would have been a bit more appeased but Vengeance/Justice would not have. Anders knew that by using Magic in that way would have hurt mages greatly. Vengeance formerly known as Justice, would have only seen the past abuses and only wants the death of the Order and Destruction of the Circle.

Anders knew that the Circle doesn't work but he also points out how it's where mostly how Mages really get trained for the most part. Justice would have cared about the innocent mages but Vengeance does not. He basically hates the Templars and to a point hated the Circle and all of it's inhabitants for in his mind accepting their plight. Sure there was this offshoot branch of the circle that helping to drive the fight and the blood magic. Many resorted to blood magic for the power. But Anders and Vengeance were I'm sure in on that to or aware and allowed it.

I pretty much always will kill Anders for what Vengeance probably drove him to do. I only let him live on my first play through but never again. Just because unlike Vengeance, I believe in Justice.

I agree with this, i dont believe that Anders was the one who blew up the chantry. i think Vengence drove him to that madness. If you play Awakening you see how different that Anders and this one are. I wont believe that Anders was that way before he took in Justice. He wanted to help make things better for Mages but wheen Justice turned to Vengence... this is what happened.

[Maera Imrov]

Byth wrote...

I lost some love for Anders, to the point where my relatively good character was contemplating killing him.

Same. But replace 'relatively' with 'bleeding heart'. I just said "Oh my ****ing lord, ANDERS! What have you done?" Followed by a lot of muttering about **** hitting fans and serious second thoughts about what side I should take, and if I should kill him. I didn't, but part of me regrets that call now. I didn't play Awakening and yet was still attached to him, but that whole affair put a knife in my chest. And I didn't romance him, either. Still hurt.

Modifié par Maera Imrov, 18 mars 2011 - 02:48 .