552 réponses à ce sujet

[Savvie]

I was shocked and angry at poor, tragic Anders. My Hawke felt betrayed because he killed innocent people. Because of the path I chose for Hawke in this play through, she ended his life. That scene was horrible to watch I am definitely not making that choice again in my next play through.

[DarkeAlchemist]

  My reaction was as thus: "Wtf? WTF! OMG. OMG. OMG YOU BROKE THE WORLD. D:"

Modifié par DarkeAlchemist, 12 mars 2011 - 11:14 .

[FadeTheAssassin]

SNJ wrote...

Lady Moof wrote...

nenosronhir wrote...

I believe, in this, there is no wrong and right. Only what needed to be done. Or do you have an idea of what would have been the "right" path?

And my Apostate!Hawke totally ran off with Anders. She will find a way to give him peace, or die trying!

Actually, I'm kind of confused as to why his actions turn people against the mages in general; it does not, by any means whatsoever change what the Templars have done. It does not erase their brutality. It is what they've done to mages that drives Anders to this eventuality; I'd consider it more fathomable that folks who have already deemed mages too dangerous after to witnessing all the atrocities of blood magic would side with the Templars.

That's the problem, there really is no right way to go about revolution. I was just thinking of the fact that there were innocent people in the Chantry, so that's why I though that he went about it wrong.

The whole ordeal is so morally grey, it's hard to say what's right and what's wrong. :|

Anders deserves peace, finally.

         I'm against mages, mainly because they're idiotic power-freaks. Even if i try to help the bastards they still go absolutly bonkers, and even the first enchanter resorts to turning himself into a Harvester, using the magic that Quinten used on Hawke's mother none the less. Still, if i sided with them, all i ended up doing was fight mages AND templars, because every one of them resorted to Blood Magic. the only SANE mages are Bethany, and the three that run up when you're annuling that tower up.

Now, hold on. Notice, that they only turn to Blood magic, AFTER all this crap has been done them? I mean, hell even Orsino only used quintens magic BECAUSE he looked around and saw all those that he raised over the years since they were probably children, Dead, KILLED by the templars. How would YOU feel? Like Leandra did when Bethany/Carver is killed in the beginning, THATS how.  Wouldnt you want revenge on the ones who have wronged you so many times before?

Also, Does that mean your calling Merrill insane? She didnt do it for power or some no-good reason. She wanted to help Restore her peoples heritage.

[Hellosanta]

Savvie wrote...

I was shocked and angry at poor, tragic Anders. My Hawke felt betrayed because he killed innocent people. Because of the path I chose for Hawke in this play through, she ended his life. That scene was horrible to watch I am definitely not making that choice again in my next play through.

Whether you help Anders or not, he blows up the chantry. 

[Birdhive]

My first thoughts were "How could you do that!? How could you lie to my character and betray her trust, making her an accomplice in this!?" quickly followed by "Fenris was right about everything!" and also "I'm a total idiot, because I was warned about 40 separate times in the game that this would turn out badly, including by Anders himself--and very directly by Varric!", and then I cried, because I realized that he didn't technically lie to her except once at the beginning, when he said that allowing Justice to inhabit him was a favor to his friend; at the end he admitted why he had in fact allowed Justice into himself. And then I cried a lot.

And then I got mad, and thought of what my character had been through, and thought of everything that Fenris had said, most of which was not half as emotional as the things Anders said, I though of all the blood mages she had encountered thus far, I thought of the letter found in the lair of her mother's killer, signed by "O." Out of heartbreak and disgust, she was going to let Anders go, but when Sebastian threatened war on Kirkwall it snapped her out of her own personal glum--after all, it was she who had encouraged him to remain a Prince, and told him that being one wasn't merely a matter of choice, but of obligation to a others. And I thought of that mage-woman she had rescued from the caves, who later kidnapped Bethany out of loyalty to and vengeance for the death of her dead blood-mage lover. And realized that my PC was not going to allow her love for Anders dictate her response to his act--that if she did, it would be the same kind of personal decision which lead him to that moment, and all the other blood-mage types she knew to tread the path toward abomination (she's a 2H warrior). So I sided with the Templars, sparing the lives of the innocent townsfolk, and urged mercy from the Templars. Killing Anders was terrible. The way the game turned out, though, I think Anders knew that she would provide the justice he was too broken to be able to offer anyone. He knew she was better than him, and that she would protect people in a way he could not.

It is a horrible, wonderful, powerful story, and I hate Bioware for that right now, because I'm going to be a big crybaby all day after finishing the game last night after a week of sleep deprived nights. The ending(s) in Origins look like a fluffy bunny tea party compared to this one.

So, what's the appropriate length of time to grieve before loading up an earlier save and telling Anders that it's over so that my PC can rush over to Fenris' mansion? Ah, who am I kidding--I did that about 5 minutes after finishing the credits last night.

Oh, also: this is long! Can't help it--I'm impassioned about the subject!

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

I went something like this.

"Anders... what are you doing...? Anders... DAMMIT ANDERS! I'M GOING TO KILL YOU! You blew up the awesome doors on the Chantry!"

OK, that's a lie. I was much more, "Dammit Anders! Don't you know what you've done?! Now I have to pick a side!"

Modifié par Madame Rose Crimsynn, 12 mars 2011 - 04:43 .

[magicwins]

HOLY F***

................

B**ch, you gonna die.

[Kitaen]

With as much as I hate the Chantry... *Sigh* 

Terrorism is the opportune word. There is always a better way, unless the Chantry are the terrorists, then by all means.

[MasterSamson88]

Yeah I was with Anders up until he blew up the only chance that we had for compromise. The Grand Cleric was probably the only person alive who could have kept the Templars and Mages from killing each other.

Regardless I let him stay with me at the request of Merrill, that he may do some good to make up for it. I also sided with the Mages. Mass executions I find hard to agree with.

[phantomdragoness]

DarkeAlchemist wrote...

  My reaction was as thus: "Wtf? WTF! OMG. OMG. OMG YOU BROKE THE WORLD. D:"

LOL

My Hawke: "Er...I'm sure some...duct tape would fix it?"
Anders: "Actually..."
Hawke: "Shut up. I'm trying to save your ass."

[1900 grapefruits]

In the beginning, I was really torn about whether to romance Anders or Fenris, to the point where I actually slept with Fenris and then went off to sleep with Anders after he left just so I had more time to make up my mind. I played Apostate!LadyHawke, so either way it would have been a really cute romance. With Anders, she was another apostate who wants the best for mages and empathizes with their struggle. For Fenris it would have been sweet to see him fall in love with a mage of all people. With much deliberation, I ended up choosing Anders as the LI I would follow through with to the end.

Thinking back, I should have heeded the warnings of him and my friends. I knew I would be on the run if I chose him, I knew he was potentially dangerous and that his sanity was slipping, but I did it anyway, because at the time it seemed very romantic.

But this. I never anticipated THIS. If I had known he'd do what I know now, I would have never romanced him. I couldn't kill him though, in fact I told him to come with me and help me fight. I'm still pissed at him though. I've been trying to see the romance in it, to think that maybe, even after all this, it could be romantic if I still ran off with him, but it's just so hard to see. Running off with him after this mess would be supporting what he did in the eyes of my friends and I do NOT support what he did. I just can't do it, it pains me but I just can't continue the romance. He knew what he was getting himself into. He didn't even expect me to spare his life let alone run off with him. I can no longer see this "hot headed revolutionary" as attractive because of what he did, it was just insane. If he hadn't done that, I would have totally run off with him.

I saved before the final word with all the characters and completed the romance just for the achievement, then I went back. I just can't bring myself to stay with him, it pisses me off so much. I'm just going to pretend that Fenris still loves her and that in the years to come their romance rekindles again. He sided with the mages and I in the end.

Ugh. UGH. Goddamnit, Anders.

[Zykovia]

FadeTheAssassin wrote...

Now, hold on. Notice, that they only turn to Blood magic, AFTER all this crap has been done them? I mean, hell even Orsino only used quintens magic BECAUSE he looked around and saw all those that he raised over the years since they were probably children, Dead, KILLED by the templars. How would YOU feel? Like Leandra did when Bethany/Carver is killed in the beginning, THATS how.  Wouldnt you want revenge on the ones who have wronged you so many times before?

Also, Does that mean your calling Merrill insane? She didnt do it for power or some no-good reason. She wanted to help Restore her peoples heritage.

The only mage that wasn't a menace is Bethany, I tried so hard to side with the mages because of their oppression, but every interaction with them was essentially them being monsters.  Orsino talked a big game about never using it, but he knew about Quintin and hid him and allowed him to continue, makes me doubt that Orsino wasn't a blood mage, Meredith was definitely crazy, but crazy may have been onto something about seeing blood magic every where in her circle.

I culled the mages, let those three live who surrendered, and saved Bethany.  Killed Anders without a second thought.

[kimprobable]

MasterSamson88 wrote...

Yeah I was with Anders up until he blew up the only chance that we had for compromise. The Grand Cleric was probably the only person alive who could have kept the Templars and Mages from killing each other.

Except the Grand Cleric wasn't stopping them from killing each other - nothing was.  They were just covering up the atrocities the two were committing against each other on a regular basis and belittling them as 'isolated incidents.'  The more I think about it, the more I think that I see where Anders was going with his actions.  I don't condone the killing of the innocents in the chantry, but innocents were already dying every day anyway.  Now that it's an open war, the victims have voices instead of being downplayed in the name of keeping peace.  By the time I got to the battle with Orsino my shock  had eased enough that I almost couldn't blame Anders.  There was already a war and there were already innocent victims - he just forced it out in the open, and now it can get resolved.

I... can't believe I'm justifying an act of terrorism.  WTF, BioWare.

[Dudalizer]

Is there any way to stop him from doing it? I would prefer to keep all of my party members by the end of the game.

[phantomdragoness]

Dudalizer wrote...

Is there any way to stop him from doing it? I would prefer to keep all of my party members by the end of the game.

I don't think there is. It's a part of the story.

[JMKnave]

My reaction was an evil glare at the screen and a swift "murder knife" to the back.

This was followed by several loud obscenities and nerd rage at why Bioware would not let me revive him so I could stab him three more times like he deserved.

Goddamnit Anders! <.<

[Razored1313]

it...hurt, i guess would be the right word. my hawke wasn't in a romance with him, but he was one of his best friends, and it made me personally feel betrayed. i did like how you can make hawke work out that he had a part in the explosion as well.

felt guilty for sebastian, pert of me wonders if i should have killed him afterall

[FadeTheAssassin]

Zykovia wrote...

FadeTheAssassin wrote...

Now, hold on. Notice, that they only turn to Blood magic, AFTER all this crap has been done them? I mean, hell even Orsino only used quintens magic BECAUSE he looked around and saw all those that he raised over the years since they were probably children, Dead, KILLED by the templars. How would YOU feel? Like Leandra did when Bethany/Carver is killed in the beginning, THATS how.  Wouldnt you want revenge on the ones who have wronged you so many times before?

Also, Does that mean your calling Merrill insane? She didnt do it for power or some no-good reason. She wanted to help Restore her peoples heritage.

The only mage that wasn't a menace is Bethany, I tried so hard to side with the mages because of their oppression, but every interaction with them was essentially them being monsters.  Orsino talked a big game about never using it, but he knew about Quintin and hid him and allowed him to continue, makes me doubt that Orsino wasn't a blood mage, Meredith was definitely crazy, but crazy may have been onto something about seeing blood magic every where in her circle.

I culled the mages, let those three live who surrendered, and saved Bethany.  Killed Anders without a second thought.

I'd still like to hear you justify merrill being Insane. And how is flemeth a menace? Or wynne? Or most of fereldans circle of Magi?

[Failbox]

"Why." Not even in question form, just "Why."

[Milana_Saros]

phantomdragoness wrote...

GODDAMNIT ANDERS.

But I still support him. Anders wanted no compromise, because as Flemeth said: "Without and end, there can be no peace." Anders put an end to the First Enchanter and Knight Commander's fighting for the Mother's favor. Now, they can actually fight it out instead of relying on a neutral party for answers, or waiting for their silent god to intervene. It was a very extreme act, and an act of desperation, but I do not think the Mage's plight would have been acknowledged without it.

I agree with another poster earlier. I hope there is some sort of quest (DLC or DA3) that can remove Vengeance from him. In Awakening, Justice was able to leave Kristoff's body (epilogue.) I wonder if that would mean going into the Fade and convincing him overtime, or a spell...or Fenris reaching in, and yanking Vengeance out. The spirit is slowly driving Anders mad, I think. I would hate to lose him completely.

This is how I see it...at least for now. I'm only at the beginning of act 2 atm, but I've read about this bomb thing before I even had the game myself. Yet to see the whole picture, the whole story.

From the very beginning of the game, we are shown a compassionate and good man who just tries to help his fellow mages who can't defend themselves. Then when you try and romance him he warns you several times that things WILL get ugly. I will pursue the romance nonetheless. I tried to romance Fenris because I knew about the bomb thing before hand but I just couldn't do it...

Talking about terrorism...I don't know. To me thats a tad of excaggaration. It's not like he tied a bomb around his waist and blew himself up on a bazaar filled with innocent people, children and beggars. They were on a brink of war and mages had been pushed to desperate measures. He says he is sorry that it had to come to this and feels guilt for killing those people. I'm shocked about Anders going so far but I doubt that I will kill him...

There has to be more to Anders' story than this...in future DLC or expansion perhaps. Besides seeing as I pursue the romance despite of his warnings, I feel like it's my Hawke's responsibilty to stay at his side and make sure he does nothing like this in the future. Perhaps trying to find a way to get rid of Vengeance and getting Anders to make amends. He even mentions kids in the last speech...if Anders becomes insane later and has to be put out of his misery then perhaps Hawke might have a child who will continue his father's work in liberating the mages but not in the horrific, twisted way that Vengeance wanted.

After all, as said by some other people before, killing Anders on the spot might give rebellious mages the wrong idea. They might start resorting to similar acts or even blood magic because they think that they need to do whatever it takes to get what they want. As far as I understand, that is not Anders' intetion.

So yeah I hope we have the option to be rid of Vengeance later on and get confirmation that our trust in Anders is not misplaced. Maybe I'm influenced by Twilight right now after watching 2 of the movies lately but atm I think that I'm going to go through with my tragic romance and sticking with it even after Anders does what he does.

[Cypher0020]

Since I just beat the game, and I was a magehawke romancing Anders.... my reaction was...


WTF!!!!!

[DKJaigen]

Ah anders did the right thing. conflict with the mages/templars was inevitable by striking at the heart of the problem you can resolve it without much bloodshed. A pity the grand cleric had to die however.

but the templars reaction by calling for annulment (and only satisfy their own blood lust) while the circle was clearly not involved is a good reason to side with the mages. furtermore it proves anders has a point about the templars.

[nomzy]

I facepalmed and said "I liked the Grand Cleric.."

[Deztyn]

DKJaigen wrote...

Ah anders did the right thing. conflict with the mages/templars was inevitable by striking at the heart of the problem you can resolve it without much bloodshed. A pity the grand cleric had to die however.

but the templars reaction by calling for annulment (and only satisfy their own blood lust) while the circle was clearly not involved is a good reason to side with the mages. furtermore it proves anders has a point about the templars.

Errr... did you miss the part where Meredith was in possession of an artifact that drives people insane? And also that he didn't just kill the Grand Cleric but also the many many innocent people who would have been in the chantry (I seem to remember a mention that the chantry educates the kids I wonder if school was in session, hmm... )   And also that all the mages and a lot of innocents died anyway? What Anders did was take a conflict in one city and create a world war. In the end it might make the world better but there will be a whole lot of bloodshed before that can happen. If it happens (maybe we'll just a see a return to the Tevinter Imperium)

Anyway, I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning that JustAnders was not right in the head. But I romanced him anyway just to see what would happen. It was interesting, but I miss Awakening Anders.

[Todrazok]

when i saw the chantry getting destroyed my reaction was pretty much staring at the screen thinking "HOLY ****".
As for Anders, i didn't even think it over, i killed him. Meredith was crazy already and the mage/templar conflict would have been there without him, and he killed the grand cleric .

One question though, is it possible to avoid the Chantry bombing by not doing Anders's last companion quest involving distracting the grand cleric?