155 réponses à ce sujet

[hexaligned]

Zeii wrote...

I'm about halfway through NM act 1, this crap is getting a little grating. Get mobbed by 10 guys, kite them back quite a way, kill them. Run back up for more to spawn, run them back to kill them. Don't get me started on these Sharps Highwaymen either. Your mage drops a little threat on them and if you dont have a corner two steps away to line of sight them, they will spam pinning shot on him and guess what? Dead mage.

For some reason, I have tried changing every tactic and aggressive/defensive mode for Varric, but no matter what I change this idiot runs into packs of enemies like a moron. *sigh*

Micro managing your party makes it much much much easier.  I wouldn't reccomend anyone tries to play Nightmare with  tactic setups (let alone default ones), that just sounds painfull.

Modifié par relhart, 11 mars 2011 - 03:44 .

[Zeii]

For the most part I micro manage everything, the only ones I have been trying to use is attack target of X, to keep them focus firing without having to select them all. As the above poster pointed out, you are a lot better off controlling every move of your party then letting the AI go to town. It's a lot more tedious and time consuming, but it works.

[Kuro_Fenikkusu]

AI? What AI? OH you mean the AS. Because the party member and enemies alike must have IQs lower than speed bumps to do some of the things I've seen them do. Even on nightmare.

[statelessloki]

Quite simply put, nightmare this time around just feels cheesy with the waves of enemies spawning from everywhere.

[Arthur Cousland]

Hmm...in Origins, I would have liked endless waves of enemies to test my party out with (in certain areas). I'll have to check this out once my copy comes in the mail.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 11 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[Shirosaki17]

yeah it's pretty annoying. It took me like a half hour of kiting Friedrich at the beginning of the game to kill him. (Had a two hand warrior as Hawke, he died against all the adds. Aveline and Bethany survived with Aveline taunting the leftover adds and kiting, occasionally attacking, while Bethany attacked and healed Aveline. Thank god I had Heal. Adds go down, Bethany's attack only does 1 damage per hit against Freidrich, so I have to have Aveline attack doing 1 damage or 7-8 damage. I kited if her HP got low and Bethany would heal, but the guy has like 3-4 health potions so I had to attack him forever before he died.)

Nightmare isn't even hard in most spots from what I've noticed. But when 10 archers spawn in different areas around you it's pretty annoying, because if one archer attacks a mage or archer with low fortitude, it basically prevents them from doing anything because of interrupts on every attack, not to mention they die pretty quickly.

Having to kite archers and other mobs around a corner so they are out of line of sight and walk into melee range to kill isn't tactical or difficult. Or kiting so your abilities have a chance to refresh. It's abusing the A.I.'s stupidity. But you have to, to survive those fights. I hate having to cheese the game, but there is no realistic way to win these fights straight up. It's just bad gameplay imo.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 11 mars 2011 - 06:10 .

[cyph]

Wait, so in real life,if someone's shooting you with arrows, wouldn't your first reaction is to run around the corner out of sight? Wouldn't you hide behind a wall, then attack them as they follow you around the bend. Would your first thought would be "gee, that's not realistic at all!" Hiding from archers make perfect sense. No cheese there.

And to refute the notion that cheese is the only way to win, here is the video of me beating Friederich on nightmare, under 6 minutes, without cheese, and no deaths: If nightmare is such a pain, there is always hard difficulty.

[Zeii]

Yes archers are easy enough to handle. Pop a toon around the corner to start combat then duck back behind a corner. Forces them all to gather up on the choke point which is the corner.

No corner available? Hit that gaggle of archers with a glyph of paralyze.

Modifié par Zeii, 12 mars 2011 - 12:07 .

[Bratinov]

I don't mind waves of enemies, what really bugs me is the ridiculously long health bars even on peons, it feels like I'm tickling them with a wooden sword, oh well.. its still doable

[skan5]

As with others, I haven't found Nightmare hard. I just find it annoying and dull.

At some point I just grew bored: "Oh look, six more archers and a few elites," followed by "and there's the eight more; now which one's the assassin?"

Oh, yeah, and the few encounters where enemy mages are spawned in some remote corner and aoe blast you before you realize they even spawned, forcing a reload until you find out where he spawns so you can be ready for it.

If you ask me, "reloading" isn't a tactic for something like this.

It honestly just gets... I don't know, just lame.

[elevul]

 I didn't play on nightmare difficulty (nor I have any intention of doing so), but I agree that the number of enemies is exaggerated, even on normal.
I would have preferred fewer stronger opponents instead of those waves of weaklings.

[Dessicator2]

Cyocide wrote...

"Oh! I should've done that! Or why didn't I think to do this?"

The same thing occurs in DA2. "Oh! I should have fallen back when they sent another wave at me. There's some stairs back there with a chokepoint and a nice view of the poor saps below."

Re-enforcements are a reality in games and in real combat, so when they come, you'd better have a backup plan. =P

It's not very fun though when the only way to succeed is an hour worth of trial and error.

I could deal with it though if the only issue with Nightmare was that you had to look back and take proper advantage of area design and positioning and bladdy blah, but it's more than that. Nightmare difficulty adds a challenge in the same way the putting an anvil on top of a stack of boards adds to the challenge of breaking them with your hand.

Every enemy attack is a knockdown, stagger or disorient, except against your tank, which would be ok if threat actually worked in this game. Taunts and misdirects are broken and if you walk up behind a mob, no matter how long your tank has been beating on it, the second you get in range it turns around and hits you with a massive knockback, and since these knockbacks/downs last so long the enemy can run right back over to you and knock you down again before you can recover. I've had many deaths where I just sat and watched one ass hole with a shield and mace knock back my last character over and over until it was dead. Those escape mechanisms that the loading screen tips talk about can't even be used because you can't recover fast enough to actually cast them. All you can do is pray that your tank can run over to your mage (or worse, to the archers that just appeared out of thin air 100 meters away) and pull threat before one of your ranged gets knocked back across the ocean to Ferelden. I also love how if you cast an ability and are struck before it can connect with it's target, then it gets interupted and puts the spell on cooldown, but of course enemy's who are struck in the middle of a cast don't get interrupted, particularly when it comes to potion drinking and vanishing, these always work for them.

Then there's friendly fire. I don't necessarily disagree with FF, but when things like Winter's Grasp cast by Bethany kills your main character in one hit because of FF then that's broken because that's not even supposed to be an AoE spell. You can't even bring along certain characters, like Fenris, because his two-hander attacks will also kill any of your other melee characters in one hit.

Assassins are the real unbelievable part of the game though. I can't imagine everyone at Bioware sitting down with the final product and seeing how assassins work and saying "Yep, that's a fun challenge that everyone will like!" They're not actually assassins though, so I guess there's a lot of guys named "Assassin" in Kirkwall. I don't know what you'd call a tank that vanishes every 5 seconds and one shots a random party memeber. Actually I do, but that would just come out as a peculiarly long string of symbols to the rest of you. I know you're supposed to use class combos to take them out, but Assassins appear in the game before it's even possible to open up class combos. Once you do it's still tricky because they vanish before you get a chance to set one up.

All of these things alone could be managed, but when you've got an assassin warping around killing your mages who can't stun or otherwise control it because all your characters are getting flung around by archers and random melee enemies that decided they're too hip and cool for threat tables, it becomes a game that you'd think was designed for an arcade, where every time a character dies you have to insert a $10 bill to ressurect them. Nightmare is extremely poorly designed. It's not fun at all. And it should have a disclaimer that says "Don't bring melee characters, and no, having Anders in the party won't help"

The only reason I made it to the Deep Roads on Nightmare was because of how often an encounter or enemy AI would bug out.

And I don't blame you if you didn't read my post.

[cyph]

It seems like a lot of egos are being bruised by nightmare difficulty. I am in the process of uploading the Templar Battle (with an elite hunter assassin). No deaths, nightmare difficulty, slightly over 11 minutes with lots of pausing, and using every skill, poison, and potions that the game allows. The crying about nightmare getting truly obnoxious. Just because YOU cannot beat them does not mean the game is broken.

[cyph]

Here it is: Templar Nightmare Difficulty Every time I take him down to near death, the hunter chugs another health potion. Annoying? Yes. Broken? No. All the more satisfying when I finally kill him. I died the first few times because whatever tactics I used just didn't seem to work. So I looked through the talent tree, analyzed who I was fighting, and change my party tactics (and respecc'ed) to fit the situation. The one thing I didn't do is go on the forum and complain how broken nightmare mode is.

Tactics: Use poison on Fenris to diminish enemies' attack power. Use Aveline to tank the elites or archers. Varric and Hawke focus attack to bring down enemies one by one but never let an enemy get close to them. When hunter stealth, move away until he reappears then throw the kitchen sink at him.

I like to play with lots of pausing, micromanaging each character like chess pieces on the board. There's another person who actually plays the game mostly in real time using automatic tactic set up. I have to try that on my second run through Nightmare. This game's combat reminds me a lot of Baldur's Gate II actually. 

Modifié par mythkandar, 12 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[Riloux]

I can't tell you how annoying the wave mechanic is. It drives me up the wall, especially when the waves spawn right on top of me. One of the biggest annoyances is you have to scramble to get your tank to aggro the new wave or else everyone else dies. There is absolutely nothing tactical about this. Planning for 5 mobs, only for it to turn into 10, then 15, then 20 is stupid. That's all I can say.

[mereck7980]

Kuro_Fenikkusu wrote...

Logikal1 wrote...

The wave after wave of endless combat that appears out of nowhere is really ruining the game for me on nightmare. At least give me the option of preparing for a fight without having to factor in 2 or 3 waves of enemies from ANY direction.

Its a joke.

This.
I recently stopped playing on nightmare not because it was too hard it's just ridiculous.  Sheer numbers isn''t the way to go for difficulty it's just annoying.  Each room takes like 20-30 mins to clear, take 3 steps another mob rushes at you.  Clear that mob and suddenly you're surrounded by more enemies on all sides.  I don't find Dragon Age 2's nightmare difficulty to be hard.  It's just annoying as #$%!

I have had the same expereince with Nightmare, but I thought that was the point.  Completing the game on this difficulty setting is more of an exercise in pateince (aka die reload last save, rinse and repeat) than in skill. 

[skan5]

mythkandar wrote...

Here it is: Templar Nightmare Difficulty Every time I take him down to near death, the hunter chugs another health potion. Annoying? Yes. Broken? No. All the more satisfying when I finally kill him. I died the first few times because whatever tactics I used just didn't seem to work. So I looked through the talent tree, analyzed who I was fighting, and change my party tactics (and respecc'ed) to fit the situation. The one thing I didn't do is go on the forum and complain how broken nightmare mode is.

Tactics: Use poison on Fenris to diminish enemies' attack power. Use Aveline to tank the elites or archers. Varric and Hawke focus attack to bring down enemies one by one but never let an enemy get close to them. When hunter stealth, move away until he reappears then throw the kitchen sink at him.

I like to play with lots of pausing, micromanaging each character like chess pieces on the board. There's another person who actually plays the game mostly in real time using automatic tactic set up. I have to try that on my second run through Nightmare. This game's combat reminds me a lot of Baldur's Gate II actually. 

I did that same fight in Nightmare, but with shield-0and-board Hawke, Aveline, Bethany and Varric. "Unbeatable" isn't an issue. But do you agree or disagree that the spawning waves, especially when it's right on top of you, as a completely common mechanic is lame?

[soteria]

Anymore, I think when people say something isn't tactical, they mean that it annoys them. Saying "waves aren't tactical" is inane (unless maybe you're trying to say they're strategic) because defeating multiple waves spawning in awkward locations requires a tactical response. I agree 100% that they're stupid at times and should have been implemented a lot more sparingly and with more common sense, but saying "they're not tactical [because I don't like them]" is just stupid.

[DM Veil]

Personally I don't mind the waves of enemies, it means I have to fight the enemies on my ground instead of theirs to avoid being overwhelmed and I have to manage my cooldowns to last me through out the fight.

[cyph]

skan5 wrote...

I did that same fight in Nightmare, but with shield-0and-board Hawke, Aveline, Bethany and Varric. "Unbeatable" isn't an issue. But do you agree or disagree that the spawning waves, especially when it's right on top of you, as a completely common mechanic is lame?

No, I don't think the spawns are lame. Without the spawn, there would be no nightmare difficulty. It's actually easier for them to come in waves rather than all at once. If Bioware threw 3 spawns at you all at once, you'd throw the keyboard or controller at the TV. The computer is stupid, people are smart. It needs all the advantage it can get. The computer also doesn't have the overpowered specialization and the CCC that the players have. We are actually at a advantage. If you play it right, you'd rip through each group of enemies. I look at each encounter as a puzzle that the players must figure out. That's why we play a tactical RPG in the first place right?

I also noticed that on Nightmare, not all enemies are at the same level as the player. If they enemy seems to have huge life bars, then chances are they're higher level. Go perform other quests, then come back and you'll find the enemy easier to kill. I think it may have something to do with resistence and the inability to hit him at lower levels.

Running away is not a bad tactic either. For non-boss fights, run away and fight in a strategic area. Divide and conquer. If you know it's an ambush zone, why fight in the zone? The art of the pull is as old as Baldur's Gate itself.

[Cyocide]

It seems like a lot of egos are being bruised by nightmare difficulty. I am in the process of uploading the Templar Battle (with an elite hunter assassin). No deaths, nightmare difficulty, slightly over 11 minutes with lots of pausing, and using every skill, poison, and potions that the game allows. The crying about nightmare getting truly obnoxious. Just because YOU cannot beat them does not mean the game is broken

I like you =P.

OMG that Templar battle raped me for an hour or so. I came sooo close each time. It wasn't til I bum-rushed the extra ambush wave and drew the battle to the stairs that I turned the tide.

Modifié par Cyocide, 12 mars 2011 - 10:27 .

[October Sixth]

Bioware made Nightmare a Nightmare again. You should be applauding them.

Too many people were fooled into thinking Nightmare meant Easy because of DAO (and most recent games). Think about the name of the difficult mode for a second before complaining that you can't handle it. If you're getting frustrated drop the difficulty to Normal and try again next time when you better understand the game mechanics.

[pezit]

You run into an alley and funnel all the reinforments by forcing them to run around a corner. The game was also not ment to be played with FF, this is so obvious cause you fight the camera more than the enemies, and so many skills become nearly useless. So to wrap it up, yes i can manage nightmare just fine, but it's boring so i don't.

[Shirosaki17]

mythkandar wrote...

skan5 wrote...

I did that same fight in Nightmare, but with shield-0and-board Hawke, Aveline, Bethany and Varric. "Unbeatable" isn't an issue. But do you agree or disagree that the spawning waves, especially when it's right on top of you, as a completely common mechanic is lame?

No, I don't think the spawns are lame. Without the spawn, there would be no nightmare difficulty. It's actually easier for them to come in waves rather than all at once. If Bioware threw 3 spawns at you all at once, you'd throw the keyboard or controller at the TV. The computer is stupid, people are smart. It needs all the advantage it can get. The computer also doesn't have the overpowered specialization and the CCC that the players have. We are actually at a advantage. If you play it right, you'd rip through each group of enemies. I look at each encounter as a puzzle that the players must figure out. That's why we play a tactical RPG in the first place right?

I also noticed that on Nightmare, not all enemies are at the same level as the player. If they enemy seems to have huge life bars, then chances are they're higher level. Go perform other quests, then come back and you'll find the enemy easier to kill. I think it may have something to do with resistence and the inability to hit him at lower levels.

Running away is not a bad tactic either. For non-boss fights, run away and fight in a strategic area. Divide and conquer. If you know it's an ambush zone, why fight in the zone? The art of the pull is as old as Baldur's Gate itself.

Man most people aren't complaining about the difficulty. It's just not fun having to use those tactics to win fights. Running around in circles kiting enemies while abilities refresh or to pull them to a choke point is a lame strategy. The A.I. doesn't have any abilities to counter this and can't react to when a player does this. They just chase you until you get around that corner and can unload all your aoe in a small area.

Once you get to like lvl 7-8 it gets a lot easier, but when you're lvl 2-3 and have 1-2 abilities it's annoying as hell, because it doesn't scale properly with your character's stats and abilities when they are low and they only have 1-2 abilities. I expect the game only gets easier and easier as you lvl up because of this lack of scaling. (only 10-15 hours in)

Here's another example. I fought and killed a Mature Dragon yesterday on my first try. Because the dragon is so slow I could have ran around to it's side attacked and moved away before it could attack me. I didn't do much of that because it's lame, but I technically could have beaten it like that. That kind of stuff is weak.

Another thing about that fight was the dragon hit my warrior and knocked him down, and could hit again before my warrior had a chance to get him. He actually hit my warrior 3 or 4 times in a row almost killing him, but the dragon also had a second attack animation that was slower than the first, and gave my warrior time to get up and get out of there. The dragon should have killed my team but couldn't. The fights aren't hard at all. I could technically have the player with aggro run around with a boss's aggro while the other 3 dps it down.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 12 mars 2011 - 10:46 .

[Bacchus22]

Playing on Nightmare here and having a great time. However, I generally agree with OP.

While I welcomed and was excited the first time I encountered waves of enemies, the sheer amount of times they have recourse to this method made the novelty go away quickly - especially when the context isn't right. It then feels like a cheap fix. 

But much worst is the phasing out of thin air part which is completely counter immersive and dangerous.

To fix this, new waves should spawn about 2 or 3 times further away than they do now and then made to path to the combat trigger. That way, immersion coherence would have a greater chance to be maintained and tactical play would not be disrupted.

Modifié par Bacchus22, 12 mars 2011 - 10:59 .