113 réponses à ce sujet

[stuman89]

Colarmel wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

Anders, hero or terrorist, based on the prism you look him through.

Oh no, he was definitely a terrorist.  A terrorist with a noble goal perhaps.  And one could argue that someone can be a terrorist and a hero.  But let's call the thing what it is.

Anyway, all terrorists think that their goal is worthy of their method.  But when you slaughter hundreds of innocents to scare folk into starting a war, that's terrorism.

Whats scary is that so many people seem to miss that. He's a BAD dude. Murdering hundreds of innocent people is never a good thing and it was an act of terrorism no matter how one spins it.

He's not a revolutionist either, he's an anarchist. He wants death and destruction and pain, his goal was never even to set out to make a new government, it was just to murder people. If he looked Middle Eastern and not like an Irish dude, no one would have a problem viewing him as a cold, evil, terrorist.

[LadyVaJedi]

I am not done with DA2 yet. But when Anders asks my fehawke for help with the ingredients I (rl) knew it was a bomb. When you think about how bad the templers were treating the mages it is understandable why he did what he did.

[DarkSpider88]

I can't wait to see where this goes. Also yes Anders was a terrorist and had to die. Now to save oppressed mages everywhere with Bethany... or I hope so.

[atheelogos]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Anders, god Anders what have you done. 

Anders was my buddy. I love the character. But he made me kill him. How could I let him go after that, theres no doubt in my mind that if Anders live he would go bomb more chantries to try to force a revolution.

It made the game for me. I love DA2.

Why would he bomb more? We know for a fact the revolution happens with just the one Chantry.

[NRO TYN]

Saw something interesting someone posted on the Forum, thought i should post the link.

http://social.biowar...4/index/6488581

[packardbell]

It seems the evil unleashed from the Primeval Thaig will play a greater role.

[Nocturnius89]

I'm Glad Hawke got to be with Isabella despite her ditching me and never coming back lol.

I also was happy they mentioned my Warden :] but Alistair told Teagan that he is not afraid of the warden (Queen) and will head back home to her or something along those lines. Leliana says that the Warden and Hawke missing is no coincidence.... so I take it My Warden disappeared after the King Alistair convo?

[Raiil]

stuman89 wrote...

Colarmel wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

Anders, hero or terrorist, based on the prism you look him through.

Oh no, he was definitely a terrorist.  A terrorist with a noble goal perhaps.  And one could argue that someone can be a terrorist and a hero.  But let's call the thing what it is.

Anyway, all terrorists think that their goal is worthy of their method.  But when you slaughter hundreds of innocents to scare folk into starting a war, that's terrorism.

Whats scary is that so many people seem to miss that. He's a BAD dude. Murdering hundreds of innocent people is never a good thing and it was an act of terrorism no matter how one spins it.

He's not a revolutionist either, he's an anarchist. He wants death and destruction and pain, his goal was never even to set out to make a new government, it was just to murder people. If he looked Middle Eastern and not like an Irish dude, no one would have a problem viewing him as a cold, evil, terrorist.

I think you're misreading his intention. He's not an anarchist, he is not against gov't, he's someone looking to deconstruct (in a very violent manner) a heirarchy that has wronged him, and others like him, to a severe degree. I'm not going to say what he did was morally justifiable. He thinks he's doing the right thing, even if he understands that the way to do it is, well, wrong and painful. Odd as it sounds, Anders alone isn't a particularly hateful human being. But he brought the grudge against what is a fundamentally broken system and then wrecked them in the face. But he's looking to reshape the world, which does qualify him as a revolutionist- just one you don't agree with.

[Colarmel]

Valentia X wrote...

stuman89 wrote...

Colarmel wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

Anders, hero or terrorist, based on the prism you look him through.

Oh no, he was definitely a terrorist.  A terrorist with a noble goal perhaps.  And one could argue that someone can be a terrorist and a hero.  But let's call the thing what it is.

Anyway, all terrorists think that their goal is worthy of their method.  But when you slaughter hundreds of innocents to scare folk into starting a war, that's terrorism.

Whats scary is that so many people seem to miss that. He's a BAD dude. Murdering hundreds of innocent people is never a good thing and it was an act of terrorism no matter how one spins it.

He's not a revolutionist either, he's an anarchist. He wants death and destruction and pain, his goal was never even to set out to make a new government, it was just to murder people. If he looked Middle Eastern and not like an Irish dude, no one would have a problem viewing him as a cold, evil, terrorist.

I think you're misreading his intention. He's not an anarchist, he is not against gov't, he's someone looking to deconstruct (in a very violent manner) a heirarchy that has wronged him, and others like him, to a severe degree. I'm not going to say what he did was morally justifiable. He thinks he's doing the right thing, even if he understands that the way to do it is, well, wrong and painful. Odd as it sounds, Anders alone isn't a particularly hateful human being. But he brought the grudge against what is a fundamentally broken system and then wrecked them in the face. But he's looking to reshape the world, which does qualify him as a revolutionist- just one you don't agree with.

Word.  Anders is trying to deconstruct the circle paradigm, the way to do that is to force the circles to rise up, if this conflict gets snatched away from war, nothing changes.  It may well have been the only fast way to do what he wanted done.  I certainly can't think of another.  My read on him was that he hated what had to happen, but was certain that it had to happen.

[ExiledMimic]

I get the same feeling I had when I watched Matrix Reloaded. And we saw how that third movie turned out. I just feel like this game was rushed. It wasn't put together well enough to be worthy of Bioware's standards. It left tons of unanswered questions. Now if it was just a rushed push or an attempt to sell a lot of DLC... that determines a lot in future purchases more than the story. Cause much like Isabella? This here plot ship has sailed. Time to clean up it's mess the best you can.

[mander83]

 Just finished...and I am so beyond excited for the next installment! Kudos to BioWare...it wasn't perfect but it was still awesome!

As far as Anders goes...my Lady Hawke spared him. She was super angry with him but seeing how she romanced him...death was not an option. She was completely pro-mages and anti-chantry from the beginning though. Honestly, I don't think he would have blown up the chantry without Justice. I don't approve of his actions but he and Lady Hawke are off being fugitives together, I'm sure. Or, you know, they were taken by Flemeth...

Regardless, I can't wait for more DLC, an expansion pack, or DA3! Things are about to get interesting...

[Mongerty2]

They are taking the KOTOR route. They will build up 2 awesome characters (I know that Obsidian made 2) that disappear into the night.......

Expect the resolution to come in the form of promotional material for the Dragon Age MMO that takes place 500 years later...

[RickRock504]

Well there are three possiblities, either your Warden went with Morrigan through the mirror, you killed Morrigan and the child was still missing, or you let her go and she left that book that we never get to read at the end of Witch Hunt. I think that is truly where these two stories will intertwine. Both were left with cliffhangers, they have to be related.

[bztang]

Dante Angelo wrote...

I guarantee the disappearances have something to do with Flemeth

This

[bztang]

kylecouch wrote...

The thing I consider sad about this ending is...my Warden is freaking dead...yet they act like shes alive

If your warden died, maybe they were refering to the new Warden from Orlais in DA:A...who knows

[bztang]

UltiPup wrote...

aryon69 wrote...

UltiPup wrote...

Damn it, I wanted to see Flemeth one more time. I basically carried her across the sea. There had to be a reason. And we get none. Fair enough. Flemeth cannot be explained so soon. Just seeing her in dragon form was epic.

It was explained why you did that favor for her.  Flemeth knew the warden was coming to kill her so she placed part of her in whatever you were to carry for her so she could be resurrected by the elfs.

I failed to put two and two together. So, basically, I just screwed over my past self.

Unfortunately you cannot not complete the quest "Duty" to resurrect Flemeth, I've tried, couldn't start the Deep Roads quest.

[bztang]

igot99problems wrote...

How my DA1 game ended seemed to fit perfectly into DA2. All of the big results and actions of my Warden were referenced which made me happy. However, Anders turning into a killing lunatic doesn't jive with the ending of Awakening. If Anders survived Awakening, his ending story card said he disappeared briefly from the wardens, but then returned a few years later to live out his life with them. I killed Anders at the end of DA2, which invalidates the ending of Awakening.

Hmm...good point

[bztang]

Colarmel wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

Anders, hero or terrorist, based on the prism you look him through.

Oh no, he was definitely a terrorist.  A terrorist with a noble goal perhaps.  And one could argue that someone can be a terrorist and a hero.  But let's call the thing what it is.

Anyway, all terrorists think that their goal is worthy of their method.  But when you slaughter hundreds of innocents to scare folk into starting a war, that's terrorism.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Jefferson

One man's terrorist is just another man's revolutionist

Modifié par bztang, 12 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[bztang]

stuman89 wrote...

Whats scary is that so many people seem to miss that. He's a BAD dude. Murdering hundreds of innocent people is never a good thing and it was an act of terrorism no matter how one spins it.

He's not a revolutionist either, he's an anarchist. He wants death and destruction and pain, his goal was never even to set out to make a new government, it was just to murder people. If he looked Middle Eastern and not like an Irish dude, no one would have a problem viewing him as a cold, evil, terrorist.

Anders was wrong to murder innocents, and the debate about whether he is/was an anarchist/terrorist or a freedom fighter/revolutionist for what he did could go on forever. 

IMO, diplomacy may not have solved the mage oppression problem in Thedas over the next few decades or centuries. Anders did what he thought was the only viable solution to free mages from the Chantry's rule, which is not unexpected, as any group of people who are oppressed and are backed into a corner for a long time would have done the same.

Take for example the city elves during the Qunari invasion of Kirkwall, a bunch of them fight Hawke to defend what they saw as human oppression of their brethren who sought protection under the Qun. 

The tension between the Circle mages and the Templars had been growing stronger for quite some time, and Anders ignited the spark of inevitable war between these two groups.This one act of violence by Anders will certainly lead to a lot more deaths, but hopefully it will also bring about change. Whether that change is for the best, only time will tell.

[ShaggyWolf]

Dante Angelo wrote...

I guarantee the disappearances have something to do with Flemeth

That was my immediate thought as well. She's the one thing the Warden and Hawke have in common.

[KenKenpachi]

We'll all see Sadal is the one behind all of this, he's a Dwarth that uses magic, which is a big no-no. Just watch and see, he'll be the Hero that Hawke and Warden could not be, or the greatest threat to not just Thedas, but the World.

[Chuvvy]

Yes and to get the full story you have to buy an expansion that will cost half as much as the real game and be a quarter as long. Exciting!

[dewayne31]

I think may play hawke or the warden again down the line. hawke cause story doesn't seem to be over at this point. not saying it can end a dlc. just seem that wa. and i forget where i saw it. i saw something the warden s tale might bot be done

[TexasToast712]

bztang wrote...

igot99problems wrote...

How my DA1 game ended seemed to fit perfectly into DA2. All of the big results and actions of my Warden were referenced which made me happy. However, Anders turning into a killing lunatic doesn't jive with the ending of Awakening. If Anders survived Awakening, his ending story card said he disappeared briefly from the wardens, but then returned a few years later to live out his life with them. I killed Anders at the end of DA2, which invalidates the ending of Awakening.

Hmm...good point

As annoying as it is, it has to be a retcon on Bioware's part and it wouldnt be the first time they have retconned something as it is also stated that my sword Vigilance was stolen by Antivan Crows but I know thats not true as Vigilance went with Morrigan and my Warden through the Eluvian.

[Syndria]

Few things I've picked up over the course of the games, and from the forums.

There *is* a "truly canon" storyline. A way that it *is*, regardless of choices you made in any of the games. This must be done in order to preserve some sort of continuity between games.

Witch Hunt is not canon. Morrigan's pregnancy being an Old God baby is not canon. Not everyone had someone sleep with Morrigan, The epilogue may mention she's pregnant, but it could have been someone else, after the events. There was no definite timeframe mentioned in any way.

To the guy a few pages back asking about "where do you see default", if you start a new game and look where you can import data or pick a predetermined ending from Origins, the first choice says "default". That's what they were referring to, and may in fact be the "official" ending.

Till BW says something... we don't know.