171 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spamming Troll]

(...oops.)

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 12 mars 2011 - 04:48 .

[88mphSlayer]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...

Atmosphere, Freedom, Story, More NPC interaction, Scientific accuracy, Consistency, Customization, Character progression, Logic.

That was during Microsoft if I'm not mistaken, right?

Makes me wish I had a few billion dollars lying around to buy Bioware.

i think Bethesda owning Bioware would've been the best possible direction for Bioware, as much as Bioware is good at crafting characters and backstories they've always lacked in many areas that modern rpg's strive for like larger levels and more sandbox interactivity, stuff that should be standard for rpg's in years to come now that rpg's aren't so limited by hardware

the irony is that Oblivion and Fallout actually did attract the CoD crowd and without removing any player freedom (besides EA has always been clueless when competing with Activision)

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 12 mars 2011 - 05:03 .

[William Adama]

At least mass effect 1 had prettier graphics and color palettes.

ME1 also had a greater attention to detail than 2, as well as a exponentially greater immersion factor.

Prime example, go to the citadel in 1 and notice the kinetic barrier the ship passes thru when it docks as well as the firing of the retrorockets as it slows down. Now load up 2 and do the same thing, all those tidbits are missing.

Another example, try and fall off of a ledge in ME1 and notice the raising of the arms animation. Try the same thing in 2 and watch the pencil dive that would shatter every bone in shepards body once she lands.

ME2 was lazy, sloppy, action porn. Complete with loading screens of meaningless crap as well as a mission overview in IM's briefing room... something that makes absolutely no sense to have.

[ADLegend21]

I loved Me2. (plyed it first in fact after seeing the Sci vs Fi special for it on SyFy) and it was a amzing so I went and borrowed ME1 from a friend and made characters to import and alot of stuff pissed me off cuz it was better in Me2 (Damn Mako) The games should never be discussed seperately because they work best as a set. Me2 is drastically idfferent without ME1 choices taking effect, the entire Citadel hates shepard and they don't even get to be a spectre, Cerberus is still the same but I prefer working for them since the alliance just drags us down and sends us to do their dirty work ( Moon base, Darius, major Kyle, Biotic kidnappers, first contact probes, etc.). I do like the weapons system in Me1 but prefer ME2's cuz it's easier to equip the squad and weapons are different by more than just 2 points of damage. Same goes for armor. One thing I've read that makes sense when people talk about me1's superiority is that since it was the first game people remember the first time they saw the citadel, me the council, etc and they remember it fondly and since things changed in the second game people dislike it since it's not the same as the first. just my thoughts though.

[Rurik_Niall]

I'm sorry, but I have to point out, do many of you even understand what an RPG is? RPG stands for Role Playing Game, the only element necessary to be classified as an RPG is the ability to role play, every decision you make from which if any romantic interest to pursue to whether or not you want to blow up a base is role playing. Skills, inventory, gaining levels, all those things are traditionally associated with RPG's, in much the same way that seatbelts, rear view mirrors, and FM radios are traditionally associated with cars, and just like a car if you take any or all of those things away it still remains the same thing at it's core.

The core of both Mass Effect games, the one thing that makes them RPG's are the dialogue options, you could take that same core and apply any gameplay mechanics you want to it, you could replace the guns and biotics with swords and magic, or even replace the combat system altogether with Tetris, as long as you retain that core it's an RPG.

Modifié par Rurik_Niall, 12 mars 2011 - 05:20 .

[Thompson family]

Chaos Gate wrote...

....  When one of your favourite game developers brazenly abandons your high expectations in order to cater to a bunch of attention deficit disordered teenagers, you'd feel pretty hurt too. I come here to vent, and I will continue to do so, even if it is fruitless.

I'm sorry your genre is dying in front of you, but impling we're "attention deficit disordered teenagers" is unacceptable.

Modifié par Thompson family, 12 mars 2011 - 06:03 .

[Ice Cold J]

But, I can sum up something that most people will agree with in regards to ME2 being better in four words:
Not.
Driving.
The.
Mako.



Aren't y'all happy that there were no tedious and time-consuming sidequests featuring everybody's favorite physics-realistic land rover?

[Thompson family]

88mphSlayer wrote...


as interesting as it was to find what was at the heart of the collector base, and that TIM was still super shady about it, to me it didn't have the galaxy-wide impact that the first game's revelation had.

A valid point. of view.

i guess the question is whether ME3 makes our choices at the end of ME2 become galaxy-wide, then you could say the ending of ME2 was really a "to be continued" interruption of a much greater arc, which would be fine with me and probably most players really

i think maybe the "tightness" of plot of the first game gives it an inherent advantage

we can all agree tho that reapers attacking earth is probably going to overshadow the attack on the citadel, if they can pull ME2's arc into that then i think people will reconsider ME1 as the best in the trilogy atm

Yes, a great deal is hanging on the last chapter. No argument there. ME2 left a lot of threads to gather up.

The Quarian/Geth peace/alliance factor, the role the Rachni will play, whether the genophage cure matters, etc, etc.

ME2 will be viewed as either a string of red herrings or an epic setting-up of the climactic chapter.

More later.

[Thompson family]

- No story whatsoever.

I honestly do not understand how anyone can make that judgement. The moral ambiguity of  Shep having to work for TIM alone holds more dramatic tension than anything in ME1, or at least it did for me, playing a near-spotless Paragon Shep.

In fact, I can't agree with a single point made in that reply, but since a year of these debates have proved pointless, there's no use in going over it again. Even the most valid point, " Mind numbingly tedious planet scanning,' isn't valid because, from my experience, just DRIVING the Mako from one point of interest to another ON THE SAME PLANET takes more time than it does to scan and strip an entire planet in ME2.

Again, I'm sorry your genre is dying in front of you, but your complaints seem to stem more from bitterness than a reasoned critique.

Modifié par Thompson family, 12 mars 2011 - 06:04 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Thompson family wrote...

Chaos Gate wrote...

....  When one of your favourite game developers brazenly abandons your high expectations in order to cater to a bunch of attention deficit disordered teenagers, you'd feel pretty hurt too. I come here to vent, and I will continue to do so, even if it is fruitless.

I'm sorry your genre is dying in front of you, but impling we're "attention deficit disordered teenagers" is unacceptable.

Indeed.

I personally loved ME1, was disappointed by ME2, but still love the series as a whole. Can't wait for ME3. I also played and loved DA:O, Morrowind, and was disappointed by Oblivion...

I'm a pretty avid RPG fan, but I also have Attention Deficit Disorder and it just makes me laugh when people imply that ALL CoD fans have it, while nobody who can commit themselves to the slower pace of RPGs could possibly have something like Autism or ADD. It's just a stupid stereotype that needs to die; preferrably by a lightspeed roundhouse kick to the quads.

People have different tastes. I enjoy all kinds of games, from Minecraft to Halo, because I'm just really eager to explore my options. Though I adore RPGs.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Ice Cold J wrote...

But, I can sum up something that most people will agree with in regards to ME2 being better in four words:
Not.
Driving.
The.
Mako.



Aren't y'all happy that there were no tedious and time-consuming sidequests featuring everybody's favorite physics-realistic land rover?

When you're driving the Mako straight to your destination, and ignoring the mineral/debris/anomaly icons on your map, those sidequests turn into short diversions that have story attached to them. Oooh, but the N7 missions had datapads with snippets of information detailing the backstory! Oh, yes, I adore those. <_<

[Praetor Knight]

I loved my Mako.

The Terrain was also as awesome, that is if one has ever hiked through the Rookies.

But together, I can understand the complaints if one did not follow the topography of the planets.

[Whatever42]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I loved my Mako.

The Terrain was also as awesome, that is if one has ever hiked through the Rookies.

But together, I can understand the complaints if one did not follow the topography of the planets.

I live less than an hour from the Rockies. Those were no Rockies.

[Iakus]

Thompson family wrote...

I honestly do not understand how anyone can make that judgement. The moral ambiguity of  Shep having to work for TIM alone holds more dramatic tension than anything in ME1, or at least it did for me, playing a near-spotless Paragon Shep..

Could have been.  But didn't.  You're given no choice in the matter.  Or even the illusion of choice.  There are no shady Cerberus experiments for you to countenence "for the greater good", or not (pre Overlord)  No crimes to fling at TIM's face (like, say Akuze, Kahoku, a few dozen dead marines, Toombs, etc) No anti-alien rhetoric to agree or disagree with. 

If The Illusive Man had actually challenged Shep's morals with gray choices the player would have to actually decide to go along with "to get the job done" That would have been dramatic tension.  If TIM was like the Operative in Serenity "I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done." that would have been moral ambiguity.  Instead we get this rich older gentleman who perhaps likes his brandy and cigarettes a little too much and tends to invest his money on high risk-high reward projects.

Honestly, if I hadn't played ME 1 I doubt I'd have had any reason not to complety trust TIM.  Sure a few projects went haywire, but they just have lax safety standards.  It's not like they're unethical or anything, right?

Why must I be penalized for playing ME 1 first?

[Praetor Knight]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I live less than an hour from the Rockies. Those were no Rockies.

True dat, but close enough it seems.

[Manic Sheep]

iakus wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

I honestly do not understand how anyone can make that judgement. The moral ambiguity of Shep having to work for TIM alone holds more dramatic tension than anything in ME1, or at least it did for me, playing a near-spotless Paragon Shep..

Could have been. But didn't. You're given no choice in the matter. Or even the illusion of choice. There are no shady Cerberus experiments for you to countenence "for the greater good", or not (pre Overlord) No crimes to fling at TIM's face (like, say Akuze, Kahoku, a few dozen dead marines, Toombs, etc) No anti-alien rhetoric to agree or disagree with.

If The Illusive Man had actually challenged Shep's morals with gray choices the player would have to actually decide to go along with "to get the job done" That would have been dramatic tension. If TIM was like the Operative in Serenity "I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done." that would have been moral ambiguity. Instead we get this rich older gentleman who perhaps likes his brandy and cigarettes a little too much and tends to invest his money on high risk-high reward projects.

Honestly, if I hadn't played ME 1 I doubt I'd have had any reason not to complety trust TIM. Sure a few projects went haywire, but they just have lax safety standards. It's not like they're unethical or anything, right?

Why must I be penalized for playing ME 1 first?

The fact that you couldn’t bring Akuze, Kahoku was a huge missed opportunity IMO and it was far too big a point for them to skip over like that. In genral thats the part I think they didn't do well. You never really  got to talk about the controversy of anything. It was always breezed over. Still I think what they did with Cerberus for the most part was all right, showing the less extreme side and showing some of the experiments from ME1 that you can bring up with Miranda from an inside rather than outside view. (could have gone into that a bit more tho)

They do also give you a very very obvious reminder of the kind of things Cerberus dose, they didn't change in between games. Pragia and Jack? Why do people seem to forget about this one? Its arguably worse than what we got in ME1 witch was mostly just lax safety procedures again. Sure TIM supposedly didn’t know about everything but he must have known they were experimenting on children like that. He monitors everything personally.
Not only that but you remember Horizon right? He used them as bait and made no apologies for it. Yeah sure, there was a good reason for that. It would be pretty stupid if he didn’t have a reason and then he uses you with the collector ship mission.
with the "I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done” thing. Isn’t that kinda how Miranda describes him? "he's no saint and he would be the first to admit it" and he doesn’t out right say this to you (why would he) but that was definitely the vibe I was getting from him. They don’t need to state it.

As for no anti alien rhetoric, well probably because he an extreme human nationalist but not necessarily anti alien? (he could be but we haven’t seen much indication of that so far) which is much more better than if they make him an anti alien xenophobe. You can agree or disagree with that.

Miranda brings up the fact that too many join out of xenophobia with you and I’m sure TIM would have gone thru and picked his more...agreeable members for sheps mission. A ship full of pro human extremist would not be good for convincing Shep they aren’t all evil or for working with the Aliens and why would he be getting Sheps to make calls on anything other than the collectors? He is keeping Shep in the dark, the rest of Cerberus projects are none of you business unless he needs you to clean something up. That and he does give you a “grey choice” what was the collector base decision?
You are not being punished for playing ME1, the stuff from ME1 was not retconned. Plying ME1 gives you more context.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 12 mars 2011 - 10:24 .

[Ice Cold J]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

But, I can sum up something that most people will agree with in regards to ME2 being better in four words:
Not.
Driving.
The.
Mako.



Aren't y'all happy that there were no tedious and time-consuming sidequests featuring everybody's favorite physics-realistic land rover?

When you're driving the Mako straight to your destination, and ignoring the mineral/debris/anomaly icons on your map, those sidequests turn into short diversions that have story attached to them. Oooh, but the N7 missions had datapads with snippets of information detailing the backstory! Oh, yes, I adore those. <_<

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I loved my Mako.

The Terrain was also as awesome, that is if one has ever hiked through the Rookies.

But together, I can understand the complaints if one did not follow the topography of the planets.

Meh... not ALL of them. The Exogeni miners were pretty pointless... so was that lost data module...

And some of that topography was whack. It showed gradual incline, then, all of a sudden, you hit a sheer wall that you had to backtrack about 10 mins. around.

Honestly, I liked the Mako, but I'm just pointing out a gripe that people had before that the developers obviously listened to and took into account. perhaps they will do it again.

[Thompson family]

iakus wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

.... The moral ambiguity of  Shep having to work for TIM alone holds more dramatic tension than anything in ME1, or at least it did for me, playing a near-spotless Paragon Shep..

Could have been.  But didn't.  You're given no choice in the matter.  Or even the illusion of choice. .... If The Illusive Man had actually challenged Shep's morals with gray choices the player would have to actually decide to go along with "to get the job done" That would have been dramatic tension. ...

Soundly reasoned and well put, iakus, but I still can't agree, mainly because my insufferable Paragon saint of a Shep didn't go to Omega first. He didn't recruit Mordin or anything. He took command and immediately flew the new Normandy straight to the Citadel, docked into a dock just like they one where they locked down the old Normandy before the Ilos mission and, in effect, turned himself in -- taking two of Cerberus top operatives with him to Anderson's office.

The Council or the Alliance could have seized the the ship, interned the whole crew, arrested Miranda and Jacob -- and Shep. The Alliance considered it, we know for a fact. See the communication to Admiral Hackett in the Shadow Broker files.

Personally, I'm convinced the Alliance and Cerberus aren't nearly the enemies they portray themselves to be.

So what happens after Shep shows up at the Citadel, having done everything except put himself in handcuffs? He gets called a nutjob and a traitor by the Council, gets his Spectre status reinstated and is sent off with a mission in the Cerberus ship.

So Shep goes to the bar on the Citadel, buys some of that ice brandy, get smashed with Chakwas and then goes to save some colonies and find out what's going on.

From your point of view -- and it's a perfectly valid one -- that's not giving you a choice. To me, it's ultimately more choice than you ever got in ME1. In ME1, you were an Alliance Marine, a Spectre and the arch foe of Saren.Paragon or Renegade, you wound up killing Soveriegn and Saren.  In ME2, (if you're Paragon) you're in an unwilling allliance with TIM -- but you s**** him hard at the end and laugh in his face.

Modifié par Thompson family, 12 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[Thompson family]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

I'm sorry, but I have to point out, do many of you even understand what an RPG is? RPG stands for Role Playing Game, the only element necessary to be classified as an RPG is the ability to role play, every decision you make from which if any romantic interest to pursue to whether or not you want to blow up a base is role playing. Skills, inventory, gaining levels, all those things are traditionally associated with RPG's, in much the same way that seatbelts, rear view mirrors, and FM radios are traditionally associated with cars, and just like a car if you take any or all of those things away it still remains the same thing at it's core.

Rurik_Niall, if we ever meet in real life, I'll buy you a beer.

[MassEffect762]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

I'm sorry, but I have to point out, do many of you even understand what an RPG is? RPG stands for Role Playing Game, the only element necessary to be classified as an RPG is the ability to role play, every decision you make from which if any romantic interest to pursue to whether or not you want to blow up a base is role playing. Skills, inventory, gaining levels, all those things are traditionally associated with RPG's, in much the same way that seatbelts, rear view mirrors, and FM radios are traditionally associated with cars, and just like a car if you take any or all of those things away it still remains the same thing at it's core.

I want a fully loaded luxury car/RPG not a bareboned race car/Action-RPG.

[Lumikki]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Rurik_Niall wrote...

I'm sorry, but I have to point out, do many of you even understand what an RPG is? RPG stands for Role Playing Game, the only element necessary to be classified as an RPG is the ability to role play, every decision you make from which if any romantic interest to pursue to whether or not you want to blow up a base is role playing. Skills, inventory, gaining levels, all those things are traditionally associated with RPG's, in much the same way that seatbelts, rear view mirrors, and FM radios are traditionally associated with cars, and just like a car if you take any or all of those things away it still remains the same thing at it's core.

I want a fully loaded luxury car/RPG not a bareboned race car/Action-RPG.

I don't think that was his point. He mean that RPG as role-playing is the core. Point was that addional stuff adds different styles as type in RPG, these addional stuff doesn't make it luxury car, just different car. LIke sport car, buss, race car, truck. One isn't better than other, they all have different purpose, different style and type. But the core as role-playing never change, it's allways there and it doesn't require anyting more to function.

Modifié par Lumikki, 12 mars 2011 - 05:21 .

[Thompson family]

MassEffect762 wrote...

I want a fully loaded luxury car/RPG not a bareboned race car/Action-RPG.

More like a van to haul all that junk around.

Or maybe a dump truck. Then we can just back up to the omni-gel vat and dump it all in at once.

Modifié par Thompson family, 12 mars 2011 - 05:21 .

[MassEffect762]

Thompson family wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

I want a fully loaded luxury car/RPG not a bareboned race car/Action-RPG.

More like a van to haul all that junk around.

Or maybe a dump truck. Then we can just back up to the omni-gel vat and dump it all in at once.

I know what he meant Lumi.

Different strokes for different blokes Thompson.

I find ME2 as barebone and lacking as you find ME1 overwhelming cluster-f#$/unorganized.

[Lumikki]

MassEffect762 wrote...


I find ME2 as barebone and lacking as you find ME1 overwhelming cluster-f#$/unorganized.

I just comment this even if it's not for me.
I my self find both lacking in some areas while doing well in some other areas. Example for me:

ME2 is lacking in customation, story and impression details, while it's good at gameplay and combat.
ME1 is lacking in combat and gameplay as too clumpsy and shine in story, customation and impression details.

So, it's like one games strenght is others weakeness. If ME3 could get the strengh side only from both, then wow.

Modifié par Lumikki, 12 mars 2011 - 05:55 .

[TelexFerra]

Oh, how could anyone POSSIBLY have a different opinion than I? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??