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[DieHigh2012]

HawXV2 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

HawXV2 wrote...

It was the most...Idk how to describe. It just made me feel...dreamy. It's my favorite video game moment by far. Anyway, I didn't kill him at first, but since I sided with the templars, I had to in the Templar Hall. I'm never siding with them again in any other playthrough. This plot...It was superior to Origins because of that moment. Anders surpassed any other character instantly. Great job, BioWare.

His act of terrorism was "dreamy"? What?

I'm certain many mages would view him as a freedom fighter who lead to their independence, if Hawke sides with the Kirkwall Circle. When given the choice between freedom and subjugation, Anders saw no reason to choose the latter and forced the issue of the former. Knight-Commander Meredith wants to murder every man, woman, and child who is a mage in Kirkwall, and it's this type of oppressive system that Anders wants to defeat. He wants to see mages attain their independence. Anders targetted a building filled with people who were members of an organization that enslaved mages for almost 900 years. The Order of Templars are soldiers who serve the Chantry, after all, and the focus was to force the issue of mages rising up to free themselves from subjugation. First Enchanter Orsino had no intention of doing anything to emancipate the mages, and Anders did.

Yay, our very own Dragon Age Al-Qaeda......

Really man there is no justification.

...What?! He is watching his people being oppressed! He knew they would just run to the Grand Cleric, and she would tell them to calm down, or, as he said, to compromise. And there were no compromises. That's is why he destroyed the Grand Cleric. They had to settle it, one way or the other.

All terrorists justify their actions with things just like those.

It doesn't matter what you think of ether group, things like this are evil. He proved everyone right that said even the good mages are capable of monsterous acts of death and destruction.

He though blood magic was evil, good thing he's "good" mage right? If the "good" mages are capable of justifying this, what kind of terror will an "evil" mage cause with freedom?

[LPPrince]

HawXV2 wrote...

...What?! He is watching his people being oppressed! He knew they would just run to the Grand Cleric, and she would tell them to calm down, or, as he said, to compromise. And there were no compromises. That's is why he destroyed the Grand Cleric. They had to settle it, one way or the other.

Something of note- Al Qaeda believes that their people are being oppressed by the West and its influence. So it actually fits the situation.

Anders-Al Qaeda

Al Qaeda attacks several sites on 9/11(Another note- I'm from NYC and was in Manhattan on 9/11, running for my life).

Anders attacks The Chantry.

Al Qaeda believes their people are being oppressed.

Anders believes his people are being oppressed.

Al Qaeda's side believes their actions were in the right while the World says otherwise.

Anders' side believes his actions were in the right while Thedas says..........

Exactly.

Not saying that everyone who supports Anders' actions is a terrorist or supporter OF terrorists, as that would be completely asinine and flat out incorrect, plus it'd be screaming of one-sided bigotry.

BUT-

Look at his actions from the OTHER side of things while we who disagree with his actions look at it from his.

Modifié par LPPrince, 12 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[Hurbster]

I turned round and killed the murdering son of a ****. To be honest both sides were so detestable I was upset there was not option to get rid of both factions.

[Carmen_Willow]

I "saw" it coming when we didn't do any magic spell after gathering all those materials. and when he asked me distract the Mother.

That didn't make it any less easy to bear; however, as we were a couple for over three years. I executed him on the spot. Problem was. he blew up more than the Mother. There had to have been other innocent people in the Chantry and he started something that got a lot of innocent folks caught in hell.

We'd just been through a blight...and he plunged us all back into chaos. I did side with the mages, even so, because the Circle is slavery in my view, however velvet covered. I knew we were eventually going to have to fight it out, but starting it with a terrorist attack was immoral and a bad move politically.

[Zhilara]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

RavenZhi wrote...

When I saw that I literally gasped out loud and said, "WTF just happened?!?"

It was impressive, I might add. Even if he is a little crazy - I couldnt bear the thought of executing him or making him leave. She loved him regardless, we fought together for the mages and ran off. Fugitives together in the end. Awwww... =P

I must say I totally didnt expect that. What a twist......
[although I wish we could have helped and partake in his attempt to exorcise himself.....that would have been interesting...]

He used you to distract the chantry lady, he wasen't trying to get justice out. He lied and manipulated your feelings for him so he could kill everyone in the church.

I honestly dont believe he completely manipulated me. Perhaps he did intend on an exorcism but also had to follow through the chantry bit before doing so to settle his case.  Who knows? If it made a huge impact on the way the mages were treated - I would have done the same thing.


Maybe Im just as crazy...

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

All terrorists justify their actions with things just like those.

Considering it was a place full of people who were members of a religious organization that have enslaved his people for nearly a millennia, I don't agree. He wanted to free his people from slavery, and attacked a place full of members of the very organization that has oppressed his people for nearly 900 years.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

It doesn't matter what you think of ether group, things like this are evil. He proved everyone right that said even the good mages are capable of monsterous acts of death and destruction.

Meredith proved Anders right when she wanted to murder every mage man, woman, and child in Kirkwall because of the actions of one man standing right in front of her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

He though blood magic was evil, good thing he's "good" mage right? If the "good" mages are capable of justifying this, what kind of terror will an "evil" mage cause with freedom?

You seem to be forgetting about the rape, torture, killings, and tranquility committed by the templars.

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Yay, our very own Dragon Age Al-Qaeda......

An intolerant religious group that terrorizes, tortures, rapes, and kills people? Are you saying the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars are...?

No, I'm talking about an orginazation that bomb civilian targets killing hundereds of non combatiants. Don't forget Anders was the leader of the underground mage resistance, so he was not working alone.

We acctually saw the Blood mages in the game doing the very things you describe. We only heard rumors of what the Templars where doing.

I.E. Every mage in the game turned out to be an evil ****** beside mage Hawke and beth, yet there were quite afew good templars.

[HawXV2]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

All terrorists justify their actions with things just like those.

Considering it was a place full of people who were members of a religious organization that have enslaved his people for nearly a millennia, I don't agree. He wanted to free his people from slavery, and attacked a place full of members of the very organization that has oppressed his people for nearly 900 years.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

It doesn't matter what you think of ether group, things like this are evil. He proved everyone right that said even the good mages are capable of monsterous acts of death and destruction.

Meredith proved Anders right when she wanted to murder every mage man, woman, and child in Kirkwall because of the actions of one man standing right in front of her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

He though blood magic was evil, good thing he's "good" mage right? If the "good" mages are capable of justifying this, what kind of terror will an "evil" mage cause with freedom?

You seem to be forgetting about the rape, torture, killings, and tranquility committed by the templars.

This. I was just too stupid to think of it.

[LobselVith8]

LPPrince wrote...

Something of note- Al Qaeda believes that their people are being oppressed by the West and its influence. So it actually fits the situation.

Anders-Al Qaeda

That comparison holds no merit. Mages are being oppressed, and Anders isn't a religious fanatic.

LPPrince wrote...

Al Qaeda attacks several sites on 9/11(Another note- I'm from NYC and was in Manhattan on 9/11, running for my life).

I'm from NYC, too, and I can't believe you'd use the deaths of innocent people to prop up this analogy.

LPPrince wrote...

Anders attacks The Chantry.

An organization that enslaves mages.

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

All terrorists justify their actions with things just like those.

Considering it was a place full of people who were members of a religious organization that have enslaved his people for nearly a millennia, I don't agree. He wanted to free his people from slavery, and attacked a place full of members of the very organization that has oppressed his people for nearly 900 years.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

It doesn't matter what you think of ether group, things like this are evil. He proved everyone right that said even the good mages are capable of monsterous acts of death and destruction.

Meredith proved Anders right when she wanted to murder every mage man, woman, and child in Kirkwall because of the actions of one man standing right in front of her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

He though blood magic was evil, good thing he's "good" mage right? If the "good" mages are capable of justifying this, what kind of terror will an "evil" mage cause with freedom?

You seem to be forgetting about the rape, torture, killings, and tranquility committed by the templars.

Again we have actual proof what the mages were doing, only rumors and speculation on what the Templars were doing.

Every mage in the game turned out to be a blood mage or an abomination, even the high enchanter. So.......All the mages proved Meredith right.

While we have exaples of goodly templars throughout the game, we have Bethany as the only exaple of a good mage.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 08:47 .

[LobselVith8]

LPPrince wrote...

Al Qaeda believes their people are being oppressed.

They're religious fanatics, and the comparison doesn't work. You're trying to sensationalize the events of Ander's actions with a comparison that doesn't hold up. He wanted to stop the oppression of his people, and attacked a building full of members of the Chantry who control the Circles and enslave the mages.

LPPrince wrote...

Anders believes his people are being oppressed.

No, Anders knows his people are being oppressed, and this is the reason why Justice wanted to bond with Anders in the first place.

LPPrince wrote...

Al Qaeda's side believes their actions were in the right while the World says otherwise.

Anders' side believes his actions were in the right while Thedas says..........

The World also had no problem with Africans being slaves, but that didn't stop Saint Dominique from rising up and overthrowing their slave-masters.

LPPrince wrote...

Not saying that everyone who supports Anders' actions is a terrorist or supporter OF terrorists, as that would be completely asinine and flat out incorrect, plus it'd be screaming of one-sided bigotry.

That's precisely what you're implying with this analogy that I find to have no merit. Anders isn't a terrorist, and he attacked a group of people who are part of the very organization that has been brutally oppressing mages for nearly a millennia. It's no different than Inglorioius Basterds, who also killed a group of people in an explosion who were oppressing their people.

[Anord]

My Hawke couldnt bring himself to kill his best freind

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

No, I'm talking about an orginazation that bomb civilian targets killing hundereds of non combatiants. Don't forget Anders was the leader of the underground mage resistance, so he was not working alone.

Anders didn't attack innocent civilians, he attacked members of the Chantry - the same organization who control the lives of Circle mages in Thedas.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

We acctually saw the Blood mages in the game doing the very things you describe. We only heard rumors of what the Templars where doing.

We confront a templar who says he's going to rape a mage when she's made tranquil because they have no will of their own as we're going in the underground section to the Gallows.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I.E. Every mage in the game turned out to be an evil ****** beside mage Hawke and beth, yet there were quite afew good templars.

You mean the young man getting drunk and who wanted to get laid was evil incarnate? Was the young woman who was nearly made tranquil and forced to live a life as the sex slave of a templar also evil? Were the unnamed mages who don't use blood magic and fight against the templars evil if you sided with the Circle of Kirkwall?

[DieHigh2012]

Anders IS a terrorist man, that is exactly what terrorist do they justify their mass murdering with talk of oppression......

He was the leader of the underground apostate resistance, terrorist dont have to be religious dude. They just have to kill a bunch of innocent people.

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You seem to be forgetting about the rape, torture, killings, and tranquility committed by the templars.

Again we have actual proof what the mages were doing, only rumors and speculation on what the Templars were doing.

Besides the templar who says he's going to rape the mage once she's made tranquil, you mean?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Every mage in the game turned out to be a blood mage or an abomination, even the high enchanter. So.......All the mages proved Meredith right.

First, we don't know whether the First Enchanter was a blood mage, or simply knew the blood magic ritual from his correspondence with Quentin. Second, we see that there are mages who clearly weren't blood mages, like the young Orlesian man Knight-Commander Meredith sends you to kill in the Hanged Man - where he's drinking and admits he's never been with a woman before.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

While we have exaples of goodly templars throughout the game, we have Bethany as the only exaple of a good mage.

This isn't factually accurate.

[Abstract]

Anders was a douche. Constantly complaining about the oppression of the mages. I supported the mages, but Anders doing such a drastic thing turned me off.

[LPPrince]

If you know a blood magic ritual and perform it, you're a blood mage.

[aridor1570]

Alathin wrote...

Just like the others, my jaw dropped and I was paralized for a few minutes.
I could not have killed him though, he was me healer, lol.
What happens if you refuse to help him on his quest though?

It'll still happen,I didn't do alot of companion quests on my first playthrough, I've only done Avelin's, Isabela's and varric's, I've just wanted to finish the game and see how much time it'll be rushing it.

Back on topic, It was a huge plot twist, I mean, I thought the war was about the qunari but after that moment... the story just went from great to EPIC.

[HawXV2]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Anders IS a terrorist man, that is exactly what terrorist do they justify their mass murdering with talk of oppression......

He was the leader of the underground apostate resistance, terrorist dont have to be religious dude. They just have to kill a bunch of innocent people.

Nope. It isn't terrorism. It's him trying to stop oppression. Sorry.

[LPPrince]

HawXV2 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Anders IS a terrorist man, that is exactly what terrorist do they justify their mass murdering with talk of oppression......

He was the leader of the underground apostate resistance, terrorist dont have to be religious dude. They just have to kill a bunch of innocent people.

Nope. It isn't terrorism. It's him trying to stop oppression. Sorry.

Al Qaeda's trying to stop oppression too, ya know.

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

No, I'm talking about an orginazation that bomb civilian targets killing hundereds of non combatiants. Don't forget Anders was the leader of the underground mage resistance, so he was not working alone.

Anders didn't attack innocent civilians, he attacked members of the Chantry - the same organization who control the lives of Circle mages in Thedas.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

We acctually saw the Blood mages in the game doing the very things you describe. We only heard rumors of what the Templars where doing.

We confront a templar who says he's going to rape a mage when she's made tranquil because they have no will of their own as we're going in the underground section to the Gallows.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I.E. Every mage in the game turned out to be an evil ****** beside mage Hawke and beth, yet there were quite afew good templars.

You mean the young man getting drunk and who wanted to get laid was evil incarnate? Was the young woman who was nearly made tranquil and forced to live a life as the sex slave of a templar also evil? Were the unnamed mages who don't use blood magic and fight against the templars evil if you sided with the Circle of Kirkwall?

The traquils lose emotion, not their will.

The mages never had a chance to use any kind of magic, if they had been givin a chance you bet blood magic would have started flowing.

Stop trying to justify an act of terror, if I want to hear that I'll turn on al jazeera.

Yes there are bad people in the templars, dudes with swords. A much higher % of the mages that we meet are straight evil, dudes that can blow up a whole city if they want to.

Yes, the dude getting drunk and wanting to get laid is an abomination waiting to happen. Far to weak to resist.

[LobselVith8]

LPPrince wrote...

HawXV2 wrote...

Nope. It isn't terrorism. It's him trying to stop oppression. Sorry.

Al Qaeda's trying to stop oppression too, ya know.

A group of religious fanatics who rape women and torture people? Let's not go down this road, because I assure you the facts aren't going to even remotely link Anders killing members of an oppressive religious organization to this RL group.

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You seem to be forgetting about the rape, torture, killings, and tranquility committed by the templars.

Again we have actual proof what the mages were doing, only rumors and speculation on what the Templars were doing.

Besides the templar who says he's going to rape the mage once she's made tranquil, you mean?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Every mage in the game turned out to be a blood mage or an abomination, even the high enchanter. So.......All the mages proved Meredith right.

First, we don't know whether the First Enchanter was a blood mage, or simply knew the blood magic ritual from his correspondence with Quentin. Second, we see that there are mages who clearly weren't blood mages, like the young Orlesian man Knight-Commander Meredith sends you to kill in the Hanged Man - where he's drinking and admits he's never been with a woman before.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

While we have exaples of goodly templars throughout the game, we have Bethany as the only exaple of a good mage.

This isn't factually accurate.

1. Already awsered it in my above post.

2a. Yes he is not only a bood mage, but also a willing abomination.
2b.That hapless fool is much to weak and lacks the will to resist a demon. Just ask the party members that turn on you in the fade.

3. Actualy its an opinion. One that one that is built on a solid base of the experinces in the game.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 09:12 .

[Satanicponies]

I didn't kill him. I figured if he started it, he damn well better be there to finish it. a_a

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

HawXV2 wrote...

Nope. It isn't terrorism. It's him trying to stop oppression. Sorry.

Al Qaeda's trying to stop oppression too, ya know.

A group of religious fanatics who rape women and torture people? Let's not go down this road, because I assure you the facts aren't going to even remotely link Anders killing members of an oppressive religious organization to this RL group.

What you mean like blowing up abunch of people simply because they happen to be in a building owned by someone that the TERRORISTS don't like? Yea, there is no way to draw a compairison.

As far as terrorists having be religious, you might want to look the Oklahoma city bombing. I'm fairly shure that dude was a terrorist.....