543 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The traquils lose emotion, not their will.

This comment is disproven in Ander's quest to rescue his friend and the comments made by the templar when he says he'll rape the female mage when she's tranquil.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The mages never had a chance to use any kind of magic, if they had been givin a chance you bet blood magic would have started flowing.

The mages are brutally oppressed in the Kirkwall Circle, to the point some use blood magic as a means to be free from their oppressors. You condemn them for using blood magic when they end up turning to it as a direct result of the Chantry controlled Circles.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Stop trying to justify an act of terror, if I want to hear that I'll turn on al jazeera.

It's no more an act of terror than the explosion caused by the Inglorious Basterds.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Yes there are bad people in the templars, dudes with swords. A much higher % of the mages that we meet are straight evil, dudes that can blow up a whole city if they want to.

Considering mages were the same group who kept the Qunari from blowing up cities and taking over the Andrastian nations during the New Exalted Marches, I don't see the point in damning all of them for the mistakes made by a few of them.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Yes, the dude getting drunk and wanting to get laid is an abomination waiting to happen. Far to weak to resist.

He's completely inexperienced with the real world, but we have no indication he's inept at magic. They are two completely different scenerios.

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

1. Already awsered it in my above post.

You said mages don't lose their free will, and this is disproven in two of Anders' quests - the one where he rescues his friend who was made tranquil, and the other where the templar says she won't have the will to resist when he rapes her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2a. Yes he is not only a bood mage, but also a willing abomination.

Feel free to provide proof that First Enchanter Orsino is an active blood mage.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2b.That hapless fool is much to weak and lacks the will to resist a demon. Just ask the party members that turn on you in the fade.

He's inexperienced with society, but there's no indication he's inexperienced with magic. They're two completely seperate areas. There's no indication the Orlesian noble is going to become an abomination.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

3. Actualy its an opinion. One that one that is built on a solid base of the experinces in the game.

It's factually inaccurate to say there are no mages who aren't blood mages or abominations when we encounter mages who aren't blood mages or abominations.

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

What you mean like blowing up abunch of people simply because they happen to be in a building owned by someone that the TERRORISTS don't like? Yea, there is no way to draw a compairison.

You mean members of the Chantry, the same group that has enslaved the mages for nearly a milennia?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

As far as terrorists having be religious, you might want to look the Oklahoma city bombing. I'm fairly shure that dude was a terrorist.....

That isn't what I said. I addressed a particular group who should never have been mentioned in this thread in the first place, and it's likely to end up being locked by the moderators if that trend continues.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 12 mars 2011 - 09:30 .

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The traquils lose emotion, not their will.

This comment is disproven in Ander's quest to rescue his friend and the comments made by the templar when he says he'll rape the female mage when she's tranquil.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The mages never had a chance to use any kind of magic, if they had been givin a chance you bet blood magic would have started flowing.

The mages are brutally oppressed in the Kirkwall Circle, to the point some use blood magic as a means to be free from their oppressors. You condemn them for using blood magic when they end up turning to it as a direct result of the Chantry controlled Circles.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Stop trying to justify an act of terror, if I want to hear that I'll turn on al jazeera.

It's no more an act of terror than the explosion caused by the Inglorious Basterds.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Yes there are bad people in the templars, dudes with swords. A much higher % of the mages that we meet are straight evil, dudes that can blow up a whole city if they want to.

Considering mages were the same group who kept the Qunari from blowing up cities and taking over the Andrastian nations during the New Exalted Marches, I don't see the point in damning all of them for the mistakes made by a few of them.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Yes, the dude getting drunk and wanting to get laid is an abomination waiting to happen. Far to weak to resist.

He's completely inexperienced with the real world, but we have no indication he's inept at magic. They are two completely different scenerios.

1. No it is not, the tranquils loss their emotions causing them to act rationally. Rape is an act aginst the will of the one being assalted. If you are right and there is no will...

2. You are forgetting the mage that ran to the demons only becuse she wanted the mages to rule Thedas. The excuse of they are evil so that makes it ok for me to be evil doesn't fly.

3. That is funny

4. Because one little angry mage (that "good guy" Anders) can blow up a huge building with minimal effort. Just think of what a 'bad guy" mage would do with that kind of destructive power.....

4. He has no discipline, and has weak character. He might be able to comand mighty magics, but without discipline and stringth of charcater he will fall easly. Again ask any of your companions that turn on you in the fade.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Teddie Sage]

I hugged him and kissed him, then I said : You bad, bad boy. Do it again!

But it wasn't an option so I just went along with the DIalog Wheel and sided with him and the mages... Yay...

[Elsariel]

My mage LadyHawke romanced Anders and couldn't bring herself to kill him. She was appalled by his actions but she also was in love with him and was nearly as passionate as he was for the freedom of mages.

On the other hand, my new rogue LadyHawke will not romance Anders and will kill him when she has the chance.

[Dante Angelo]

Anders did for it ser pounce alot. Thats what I think. BTW I hate DA:II Anders I want the old Anders back. I also didn't like Anders' new Voice artist. To think he went from being my third favorite character (Shale and Zevran are tied for first Sten is my second favorite) to being my most hated character. Although I don't think it was Anders' fault completly I blame Justice/Vengeance for most of it

Modifié par Dante Angelo, 12 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Sonris89]

Teddie Sage wrote...

I hugged him and kissed him, then I said : You bad, bad boy. Do it again!

But it wasn't an option so I just went along with the DIalog Wheel and sided with him and the mages... Yay...

They prob wouldn't have added that in the old dialogue option either... Thats the problem with RPGs, you are limited to what the developers decide. If I could choose that much my mage in oblivion would have wiped out the Imperial city and corrupted the Imperial tower sending forth legions of undead to conquer all of tamerial!

But it wasn't an option in any of the game play.... yay....

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

What you mean like blowing up abunch of people simply because they happen to be in a building owned by someone that the TERRORISTS don't like? Yea, there is no way to draw a compairison.

You mean members of the Chantry, the same group that has enslaved the mages for nearly a milennia?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

As far as terrorists having be religious, you might want to look the Oklahoma city bombing. I'm fairly shure that dude was a terrorist.....

That isn't what I said. I addressed a particular group who should never have been mentioned in this thread in the first place, and it's likely to end up being locked by the moderators if that trend continues.

1. Yes because no one else goes in and out of the chantry, its not like anyone goes there to pray or anything... But thats ok right? because mages are weak and the chantry is strong. That is the exact argument that al qaeda uses to justify their own monstrouse actions.

2. No you said that anders can't be a terrorist because he isn't a religious fanatic, don't change your story now.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 09:42 .

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

1. Already awsered it in my above post.

You said mages don't lose their free will, and this is disproven in two of Anders' quests - the one where he rescues his friend who was made tranquil, and the other where the templar says she won't have the will to resist when he rapes her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2a. Yes he is not only a bood mage, but also a willing abomination.

Feel free to provide proof that First Enchanter Orsino is an active blood mage.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2b.That hapless fool is much to weak and lacks the will to resist a demon. Just ask the party members that turn on you in the fade.

He's inexperienced with society, but there's no indication he's inexperienced with magic. They're two completely seperate areas. There's no indication the Orlesian noble is going to become an abomination.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

3. Actualy its an opinion. One that one that is built on a solid base of the experinces in the game.

It's factually inaccurate to say there are no mages who aren't blood mages or abominations when we encounter mages who aren't blood mages or abominations.

1.They don't lose their will only their emotions, that is established in Origins.

2. How about the part where he yells I"LL SHOW YOU BLOOD MAGIC and then turns into the harvester abomination.

3. covered in above post.

4. I said the only good mage, read they post you are commenting on.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[Raiil]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

What you mean like blowing up abunch of people simply because they happen to be in a building owned by someone that the TERRORISTS don't like? Yea, there is no way to draw a compairison.

You mean members of the Chantry, the same group that has enslaved the mages for nearly a milennia?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

As far as terrorists having be religious, you might want to look the Oklahoma city bombing. I'm fairly shure that dude was a terrorist.....

That isn't what I said. I addressed a particular group who should never have been mentioned in this thread in the first place, and it's likely to end up being locked by the moderators if that trend continues.

1. Yes because no one else goes in and out of the chantry, its not like anyone goes there to pray or anything... But thats ok right? because mages are weak and the chantry is strong. That is the exact argument that al qaeda uses to justify their own monstrouse actions.

2. No you said that anders can't be a terrorist because he isn't a religious fanatic, don't change your story now.

Er... Al Quaida has never claimed to be weak, IIRC. While what Anders is did wrong, there are some massive differences. Anders is going after an organisation, Al Quaida is going after an entire civilisation. If we want a real world parallel, Anders bombed a mosque that held a leader of Al Quaida, not a school full of children. Anders is someone who was personally wronged on many levels by the Chantry, many members of Al Quaida have never really had much of an introduction to the people they claim to be fighting against, since so many recruits are from small, rural villages. The Chantry has been shown to have numerous abuses, both by mages telling us and by templars who are horrified at the Order's (or at least some higher-ranking members of the Order) actions. Whatever he may be, Anders is not a lone conspiracy nut trying to rope people into his personal delusion. He wasn't trying to terrorise the Chantry into submission- he's trying to rally his fellow mages into fighting for their freedom, since there's no way to subdue the Chantry.

[HawXV2]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

1. Already awsered it in my above post.

You said mages don't lose their free will, and this is disproven in two of Anders' quests - the one where he rescues his friend who was made tranquil, and the other where the templar says she won't have the will to resist when he rapes her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2a. Yes he is not only a bood mage, but also a willing abomination.

Feel free to provide proof that First Enchanter Orsino is an active blood mage.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2b.That hapless fool is much to weak and lacks the will to resist a demon. Just ask the party members that turn on you in the fade.

He's inexperienced with society, but there's no indication he's inexperienced with magic. They're two completely seperate areas. There's no indication the Orlesian noble is going to become an abomination.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

3. Actualy its an opinion. One that one that is built on a solid base of the experinces in the game.

It's factually inaccurate to say there are no mages who aren't blood mages or abominations when we encounter mages who aren't blood mages or abominations.

1.They don't lose their will only their emotions, that is established in Origins.

2. How about the part where he yells I"LL SHOW YOU BLOOD MAGIC and then turns into the harvester abomination.

3. covered in above post.

He turned to Blood Magic because of Meredith! She was about to kill him. No one wants to die. He was going to do anything to live.

[HawXV2]

Valentia X wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

What you mean like blowing up abunch of people simply because they happen to be in a building owned by someone that the TERRORISTS don't like? Yea, there is no way to draw a compairison.

You mean members of the Chantry, the same group that has enslaved the mages for nearly a milennia?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

As far as terrorists having be religious, you might want to look the Oklahoma city bombing. I'm fairly shure that dude was a terrorist.....

That isn't what I said. I addressed a particular group who should never have been mentioned in this thread in the first place, and it's likely to end up being locked by the moderators if that trend continues.

1. Yes because no one else goes in and out of the chantry, its not like anyone goes there to pray or anything... But thats ok right? because mages are weak and the chantry is strong. That is the exact argument that al qaeda uses to justify their own monstrouse actions.

2. No you said that anders can't be a terrorist because he isn't a religious fanatic, don't change your story now.

Er... Al Quaida has never claimed to be weak, IIRC. While what Anders is did wrong, there are some massive differences. Anders is going after an organisation, Al Quaida is going after an entire civilisation. If we want a real world parallel, Anders bombed a mosque that held a leader of Al Quaida, not a school full of children. Anders is someone who was personally wronged on many levels by the Chantry, many members of Al Quaida have never really had much of an introduction to the people they claim to be fighting against, since so many recruits are from small, rural villages. The Chantry has been shown to have numerous abuses, both by mages telling us and by templars who are horrified at the Order's (or at least some higher-ranking members of the Order) actions. Whatever he may be, Anders is not a lone conspiracy nut trying to rope people into his personal delusion. He wasn't trying to terrorise the Chantry into submission- he's trying to rally his fellow mages into fighting for their freedom, since there's no way to subdue the Chantry.

This.

[DieHigh2012]

Valentia X wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

What you mean like blowing up abunch of people simply because they happen to be in a building owned by someone that the TERRORISTS don't like? Yea, there is no way to draw a compairison.

You mean members of the Chantry, the same group that has enslaved the mages for nearly a milennia?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

As far as terrorists having be religious, you might want to look the Oklahoma city bombing. I'm fairly shure that dude was a terrorist.....

That isn't what I said. I addressed a particular group who should never have been mentioned in this thread in the first place, and it's likely to end up being locked by the moderators if that trend continues.

1. Yes because no one else goes in and out of the chantry, its not like anyone goes there to pray or anything... But thats ok right? because mages are weak and the chantry is strong. That is the exact argument that al qaeda uses to justify their own monstrouse actions.

2. No you said that anders can't be a terrorist because he isn't a religious fanatic, don't change your story now.

Er... Al Quaida has never claimed to be weak, IIRC. While what Anders is did wrong, there are some massive differences. Anders is going after an organisation, Al Quaida is going after an entire civilisation. If we want a real world parallel, Anders bombed a mosque that held a leader of Al Quaida, not a school full of children. Anders is someone who was personally wronged on many levels by the Chantry, many members of Al Quaida have never really had much of an introduction to the people they claim to be fighting against, since so many recruits are from small, rural villages. The Chantry has been shown to have numerous abuses, both by mages telling us and by templars who are horrified at the Order's (or at least some higher-ranking members of the Order) actions. Whatever he may be, Anders is not a lone conspiracy nut trying to rope people into his personal delusion. He wasn't trying to terrorise the Chantry into submission- he's trying to rally his fellow mages into fighting for their freedom, since there's no way to subdue the Chantry.

Terrorists are terrorist, no matter the reason they still kill inocent people without reguard. That is the point I am making.

And yes that is what al quaida says to justify the killing of muslims and inocents, as it breaks thier own religious laws.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 10:04 .

[rft]

Me before beam destroys the Chantry: Oh i guess im just going to have to pick someone and fight

Me after beam destroys chantry: =O

[DieHigh2012]

HawXV2 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

1. Already awsered it in my above post.

You said mages don't lose their free will, and this is disproven in two of Anders' quests - the one where he rescues his friend who was made tranquil, and the other where the templar says she won't have the will to resist when he rapes her.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2a. Yes he is not only a bood mage, but also a willing abomination.

Feel free to provide proof that First Enchanter Orsino is an active blood mage.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

2b.That hapless fool is much to weak and lacks the will to resist a demon. Just ask the party members that turn on you in the fade.

He's inexperienced with society, but there's no indication he's inexperienced with magic. They're two completely seperate areas. There's no indication the Orlesian noble is going to become an abomination.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

3. Actualy its an opinion. One that one that is built on a solid base of the experinces in the game.

It's factually inaccurate to say there are no mages who aren't blood mages or abominations when we encounter mages who aren't blood mages or abominations.

1.They don't lose their will only their emotions, that is established in Origins.

2. How about the part where he yells I"LL SHOW YOU BLOOD MAGIC and then turns into the harvester abomination.

3. covered in above post.

He turned to Blood Magic because of Meredith! She was about to kill him. No one wants to die. He was going to do anything to live.

No, while I was fighting for the mages he turns (after I had killed all the templars no less) then trys to kill me. He made the decision to validate all the reasons why mages have to be watched.

Again the "they are evil, so now I can be evil" argument doesn't fly.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 12 mars 2011 - 10:10 .

[bowery tuff]

This was one of the defining moments of DA2. I played through as a male Rogue romancing Merrill and throughout the game was a pretty understanding guy but definitely showed more love toward the mages. After Anders blew up the building I stayed with the mages but I plunged my knife into his back without hesitation. Now I'm not a violent guy and I usually stay pretty peaceful but this moment was one of the great successes of DA2. I was just so enraged at his stupidity and I went against my forgiving ways. Way to keep me on my toes.

[Aggie Punbot]

RavenZhi wrote...

I honestly dont believe he completely manipulated me. Perhaps he did intend on an exorcism but also had to follow through the chantry bit before doing so to settle his case. 

He did manipulate you. If you press the issue, he will admit that there is no spell to separate him and Justice and never was.

[Thalorin1919]

One of the most shocking moments, and one of the most enjoyable gaming moments for me ever. The whole scene, the voice acting - especially hawkes and surrounding, all just fit the moment. The situation was already very fragile and such...but wow, it just blew it out of the water.

I didn't romance Anders, but I we were bros (I thought) so I helped him gather the stuff and distracted the mother in the chantry while he did his thing.

My question is, what happens if you don't help him do this quest? Does he do it on his own? Or does something different happen? Or do you have to do the quest?

[Fredwood]

To say the least I was shocked, I knew from Varric talking to the Seeker (somewhere in Act 2)I bemoaning the fact that he introduced Hawke to Anders that he would do something big, but I expected he put the Spirit of Justice into someone pivotal. I didn't see what he did coming at all. My jaw dropped, it takes a bit to surprise me in video games (Tends to be a reoccurring theme in BioWare games though).

I had no idea what I was going to do with him, I already knew I was siding with the Mages (because of Bethany and Merrill), and I never liked him as a character in either game. I sat trying to figure out what to do for a while (much like deciding to kill or make Loghain a Warden), I almost killed him because I like Vael, but for all his annoying traits and sitting through two games of listening to him talk about his stupid cat, that was all pretty much redeemed by his actions, and actually made me interested to see if he shows up as a cameo in DA3. I let him live but told him to get lost (needless to say I wasn't friendly with him so he didn't come back).

Modifié par Fredwood, 12 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Thalorin1919 wrote...


My question is, what happens if you don't help him do this quest? Does he do it on his own? Or does something different happen? Or do you have to do the quest?

He does it on his own; I've tried not completing it and it happens anyways.

[Tamcia]

Anders = Loghain, but on a terrorist level. Lets blow up people that might find a peaceful solution, lets also kill any innocent people in the way. Lets lose 80% of the mages when trying to free them, GOOD PLAN. Yes, I sided with the mages, but I'm not a person that thinks sacrificing 5 people to save 1 is ok, as in the end, templars, mages, citizens - all die. I liked Anders in Awakenings, now he is a psycho.

[Iecerint]

The top moment in the story for me. Really emotionally intense if you've been romancing him.

[gdmfx]

I was tempted to kill him. Even though I played as a good guy. But the selfish part of me wanted him because of his heals. And frankly ever since he made his presence in the game, he has always been in my party. I cant wait to find every opportunity to get rid of him on my next playthrough. I am sick of his whiny attitude.

And yes, he played me bad. I was pissed. I also wanna know how the hell he did that. What can someone do thats so powerful like that in this game ?

And if he can do stuff like that, why not in Dragon Age: Awakening....??

And surely it was not Justice , or was it ?

Anyhow, I dont like Anders. He was necessary for the heals but he is annoying.

[Kentuckan]

I didn't want to kill Anders, but I did. I couldn't condone what he had done and Seb's threats only cemented my decision.

Now I'm going to have a problem on all subsequent good playthroughs since even if Anders is like my best friend, his continued existence will only serve to harm the innocent.