I told him to go get a life - I told him I was happy he joined the Templars. He needed to stop living in my shadow - that's brotherly love to me.
Little did I know I was living in the shadow of Isabela and Anders. *sigh*
Carver...What did I do to make you hate me so?
Débuté par
Jon abcd
, mars 11 2011 02:32
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#52
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 02:35
Muddle
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I think Carver turns into a awesome character. So far I like him better than Bethany in my 2 play throughs (warrior and mage). I wish we could choose him over Bethany if you are playing a Rogue.
#53
Posté 18 novembre 2011 - 02:55
Crown098
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.... I found him better when he became a Warden
#54
Posté 18 novembre 2011 - 03:23
Knight of Dane
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I found it better when this thread was 8 months old and forgotten.
#55
Posté 14 janvier 2012 - 05:05
gaurdian9sunshine
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Think for a moment what Carver has went through: as he said it, "A lone blade in a house full of mages. If he excelled in ANYTHING, it brought too much attention." Aveline wouldn't let him into the city guards and he was sick of chasing after Elder Hawke. He had to make something for himself rather than stay in the shadow. That is why he became a Templar. If he became a warden, he might be pissed at first, but later he is glad that he joined because that is what he was meant to do.
#56
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 19 janvier 2012 - 12:59
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I find it sad that people think characters who disagree with them or are different from them shouldn't be in a game. Diversity and conflict are what make interesting stories.
#57
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 09:22
dragonflight288
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I personally really like Carver, even if he does annoy the heck out of me. His and Bethany's outlook is also completely understandable.
Carver has always been overshadowed by an older brother/sister. Whether in skill with blades or being the only non mage in the family. He's been told that the family needs to keep a low profile at all times to protect the mage members. If he excels at anything, it may or may not draw too much attention. Malcolm spent most of his time teaching the mage children, so Carver didn't get much time with dad.
He grows a huge grudge and gets a large chip on his shoulder, often blaming Hawke for when things go wrong. He feels more inclined to believe the templars in Kirkwall because he sees the effects of blood mages throughout Act 1, and as he's not a mage, he doesn't understand magic. And people fear what they don't understand. Add in that he's trying to keep Hawke from getting in trouble with the templars...so siding with the mages at all draws unnecessary attention to the family, whereas siding with the templars actually helps the family maintain a low profile. At least until they have the money and political influence to stay out of the Circle.
Carver has a inferiority complex, a chip on his shoulder, and a thirst to prove himself. If we leave him behind, he does throw a hissy fit, but Aveline denied him working in the guard. She recommends he learns a trade in a city that is pretty anti-Ferelden. Heck, Fereldens are hired by the score in the Bone Pit because it's the only place they can get work that isn't dirty (mercenary work) or criminal. And I wouldn't call that a safe job. And they're hired because they'll work for less than a Kirkwaller. No one else would hire them and help them advance through a trade before Hawke gains prestige through the deep roads expedition.
Carver, if left behind, had his whole "You know I want to go with you brother, but you'll leave me behind just becaue?" for weeks on end, and no one is willing to hire a Ferelden at this point. The Templars are likely his best option to get away from Hawke's shadow and advance in rank.
That or the Grey Wardens, but his attitude later on in the game reflects on how Hawke treats Carver. Respect their wishes, or completely disregard them.
But in the end, they still love each other, and Carver goes out of his way and defies Meredith the moment he realizes Meredith won't settle for anything less than Hawke's immediate execution. He holds his family above his duties, regardless of how he may feel about them.
He's still a jerk though. That's what makes him fun. And I do get the feeling he likes Merrill. We know Bethany likes Sebastian. Seeing her swoon in Mark of the Assassin is funny.
Carver has always been overshadowed by an older brother/sister. Whether in skill with blades or being the only non mage in the family. He's been told that the family needs to keep a low profile at all times to protect the mage members. If he excels at anything, it may or may not draw too much attention. Malcolm spent most of his time teaching the mage children, so Carver didn't get much time with dad.
He grows a huge grudge and gets a large chip on his shoulder, often blaming Hawke for when things go wrong. He feels more inclined to believe the templars in Kirkwall because he sees the effects of blood mages throughout Act 1, and as he's not a mage, he doesn't understand magic. And people fear what they don't understand. Add in that he's trying to keep Hawke from getting in trouble with the templars...so siding with the mages at all draws unnecessary attention to the family, whereas siding with the templars actually helps the family maintain a low profile. At least until they have the money and political influence to stay out of the Circle.
Carver has a inferiority complex, a chip on his shoulder, and a thirst to prove himself. If we leave him behind, he does throw a hissy fit, but Aveline denied him working in the guard. She recommends he learns a trade in a city that is pretty anti-Ferelden. Heck, Fereldens are hired by the score in the Bone Pit because it's the only place they can get work that isn't dirty (mercenary work) or criminal. And I wouldn't call that a safe job. And they're hired because they'll work for less than a Kirkwaller. No one else would hire them and help them advance through a trade before Hawke gains prestige through the deep roads expedition.
Carver, if left behind, had his whole "You know I want to go with you brother, but you'll leave me behind just becaue?" for weeks on end, and no one is willing to hire a Ferelden at this point. The Templars are likely his best option to get away from Hawke's shadow and advance in rank.
That or the Grey Wardens, but his attitude later on in the game reflects on how Hawke treats Carver. Respect their wishes, or completely disregard them.
But in the end, they still love each other, and Carver goes out of his way and defies Meredith the moment he realizes Meredith won't settle for anything less than Hawke's immediate execution. He holds his family above his duties, regardless of how he may feel about them.
He's still a jerk though. That's what makes him fun. And I do get the feeling he likes Merrill. We know Bethany likes Sebastian. Seeing her swoon in Mark of the Assassin is funny.
#58
Posté 20 janvier 2012 - 09:26
Abispa
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Pyrate_d wrote...
does he actually make a pass at merrill? that would be hilarious
Uh, yeah. Play with both in the party, especially during the DLCs. Especially if Merrill isn't your LI.
#59
Posté 26 décembre 2012 - 08:17
Jottan
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is there no one who can explain how to talk to him? i know jokes work on varric but how the hell do ya talk to carver? i'm trying to make him like me instead of hating me, please reply to simonlarsson92@hotmail.com
#60
Posté 26 décembre 2012 - 11:02
berelinde
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Carver is tricky. You'll never gain his approval with words alone. You do gain +10 by bringing him with you to talk to Lirene in the Ferelden Imports shop, you gain +15 by completing Birthright and the followup quest in the Gallows (and not responding to him aggressively), and you can gain a whopping +25 by choosing the diplomatic responses during Malcolm's Will in Legacy, but for the most part, Carver has known you since he was born and has heard everything you have had to say before.
You can gain his approval by sticking up for Ferelden and by leaving him home when you plan to do pro-mage things. Asking him to intervene with the Fereldan refugees in Tranquility nets you +10. Opposing slavers by allowing Fenris to kill Danzig during Wayward Son gets you another +10. You can get +15 during the course of Loose Ends if you first refuse Athenril's offer, drop him from the party, go back and accept the quest with other party members, then re-recruit him to fight the thugs who have Pryce cornered and let the boy keep the goods. Conversely, you can gain +10 during Loose Ends if you sided with Meeran and spare Lord Harrowmont. In a party composed of Anders, Varric, and Carver, you can gain +10 by killing Kelder (there is no approval gain if you bring Isabela or Fenris).
This wiki link outlines the ways to make Carver love you. You'll never get 100% friendship if you play pro-mage, but it is fairly easy to get him into the "friendship" zone if you play the DLC.
You can gain his approval by sticking up for Ferelden and by leaving him home when you plan to do pro-mage things. Asking him to intervene with the Fereldan refugees in Tranquility nets you +10. Opposing slavers by allowing Fenris to kill Danzig during Wayward Son gets you another +10. You can get +15 during the course of Loose Ends if you first refuse Athenril's offer, drop him from the party, go back and accept the quest with other party members, then re-recruit him to fight the thugs who have Pryce cornered and let the boy keep the goods. Conversely, you can gain +10 during Loose Ends if you sided with Meeran and spare Lord Harrowmont. In a party composed of Anders, Varric, and Carver, you can gain +10 by killing Kelder (there is no approval gain if you bring Isabela or Fenris).
This wiki link outlines the ways to make Carver love you. You'll never get 100% friendship if you play pro-mage, but it is fairly easy to get him into the "friendship" zone if you play the DLC.
Modifié par berelinde, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:03 .
#61
Posté 05 janvier 2013 - 10:41
Trolldrool
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I actually like him more than Bethany. It's much easier to empathize with him. His entire life his siblings have always gotten more attention than him, first by his parents because they had to hide the fact that they were apostates from the templars. His entire life has been dictated by it. It's clear that he ultimately wants to protect his family, but he has never really been given a choice to do anything else with his life. I think it's that feeling of not being in control of his own path and being constantly reminded of it that makes him so resentful.
When he comes to Kirkwall he is constantly living in his sibling's shadow. Nobody knows him as Carver Hawke, they just know him as that guy who is apparently Hawke's brother. And as somehow has already said, Aveline sabotaged his attempt to get into the city guard and I think that's why he joined the templars. He wanted to join a disciplined organization where he could make a name for himself. Where he could be known as something more than his sibling's...sibling.
When he does join the templars however, he never tells on his sibling. If anything, him becoming a templar isn't a spiteful action, but a way for him to make something of himself and at the same time keep the order's eyes off his family.
Bethany...to be completely honest, I sort of dislike her. Through almost all of first act, all she ever does is talk about how much better it could have been if they had been born into a noble family. How much her mother threw away by running off with their father. She just sounds incredibly ungrateful to everything her father did to protect her.
I know that it's probably not that black and white, but that's always the impression I get from her.
When he comes to Kirkwall he is constantly living in his sibling's shadow. Nobody knows him as Carver Hawke, they just know him as that guy who is apparently Hawke's brother. And as somehow has already said, Aveline sabotaged his attempt to get into the city guard and I think that's why he joined the templars. He wanted to join a disciplined organization where he could make a name for himself. Where he could be known as something more than his sibling's...sibling.
When he does join the templars however, he never tells on his sibling. If anything, him becoming a templar isn't a spiteful action, but a way for him to make something of himself and at the same time keep the order's eyes off his family.
Bethany...to be completely honest, I sort of dislike her. Through almost all of first act, all she ever does is talk about how much better it could have been if they had been born into a noble family. How much her mother threw away by running off with their father. She just sounds incredibly ungrateful to everything her father did to protect her.
I know that it's probably not that black and white, but that's always the impression I get from her.
#62
Posté 05 janvier 2013 - 11:03
berelinde
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You've pretty much nailed my impressions of the sibs, and your preferences there are the same as my own. I adore Carver. Always have, always will. Somehow, I've never made him a templar, though. Mostly because I thought my Hawke understood how much the Deep Roads expedition meant to him and couldn't bear to exclude him from it. So Carver winds up as a Warden. I'm doing a rare pro-templar run at the moment, and I'm looking forward to watching Carver's snit fit when they encounter each other during the Last Straw. On a meta-game level, I like making Carver a Warden because it means that I get to recruit him earlier during the Last Straw. In my mind, DA2 was always the story of two brothers. I like to keep them together as much as possible.Trolldrool wrote...
I actually like him more than Bethany. It's much easier to empathize with him. His entire life his siblings have always gotten more attention than him, first by his parents because they had to hide the fact that they were apostates from the templars. His entire life has been dictated by it. It's clear that he ultimately wants to protect his family, but he has never really been given a choice to do anything else with his life. I think it's that feeling of not being in control of his own path and being constantly reminded of it that makes him so resentful.
When he comes to Kirkwall he is constantly living in his sibling's shadow. Nobody knows him as Carver Hawke, they just know him as that guy who is apparently Hawke's brother. And as somehow has already said, Aveline sabotaged his attempt to get into the city guard and I think that's why he joined the templars. He wanted to join a disciplined organization where he could make a name for himself. Where he could be known as something more than his sibling's...sibling.
When he does join the templars however, he never tells on his sibling. If anything, him becoming a templar isn't a spiteful action, but a way for him to make something of himself and at the same time keep the order's eyes off his family.
Bethany...to be completely honest, I sort of dislike her. Through almost all of first act, all she ever does is talk about how much better it could have been if they had been born into a noble family. How much her mother threw away by running off with their father. She just sounds incredibly ungrateful to everything her father did to protect her.
I know that it's probably not that black and white, but that's always the impression I get from her.
#63
Posté 06 janvier 2013 - 12:41
Trolldrool
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Most difficult thing I probably did was take Carver into the Deep Roads, but not Anders. Without anyone to show the way to the Wardens to have Carver join them...yeah, it got pretty emotional to me. Watching Carver asking my Hawke to end his suffering was one of the few tragic moments in the game where the two Hawkes truly felt like brothers.
#64
Posté 06 janvier 2013 - 01:33
berelinde
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You're a braver man than me. I couldn't have done it. As luck had it, I had Anders with me on my first playthrough because I figured a Grey Warden might be a useful person to have along in the Deep Roads, if only for the "Warden senses tingling" moments, but I also liked Anders a lot, so he was kind of a shoe-in. But yeah, I can't even begin to imagine how emotional that moment must have been.
#65
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 06 janvier 2013 - 10:25
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Trolldrool wrote...
When he comes to Kirkwall he is constantly living in his sibling's shadow. Nobody knows him as Carver Hawke, they just know him as that guy who is apparently Hawke's brother. And as somehow has already said, Aveline sabotaged his attempt to get into the city guard and I think that's why he joined the templars. He wanted to join a disciplined organization where he could make a name for himself. Where he could be known as something more than his sibling's...sibling.
When he does join the templars however, he never tells on his sibling. If anything, him becoming a templar isn't a spiteful action, but a way for him to make something of himself and at the same time keep the order's eyes off his family.
To be honest, I think you're giving Carver a little too much credit here. True, he loves his siblings, he doesn't tell on them, and he might help hide Hawke from inside. But I still think there was also a level of spite in joining the templars. Personally, I don't think it's any coincidence that he openly resents magic for ruining his life, openly resents his siblings for outshining him, and then decides to join an order that is all about killing, hunting, and imprisoning mages.
In fact, when Hawke arrives in time to watch him leave, Carver basically gives a small speech about how this family isn't giving him what he wants, so he's going to go to this order because they understand his needs. If that isn't a giant "screw you" to his sibling, I don't know what is.
In a way, his attitude reminds me of a girl in an unsatisfying relationship, who decides to date a guy she knows her ex hates as a way of saying, "See
Bethany...to be completely honest, I sort of dislike her. Through almost all of first act, all she ever does is talk about how much better it could have been if they had been born into a noble family. How much her mother threw away by running off with their father. She just sounds incredibly ungrateful to everything her father did to protect her.
To be honest, I think you're being a little hard on Bethany here. I think she resents magic ruining her life as much as Carver does. She also has to live as an apostate, always has to hide, always has to avoid a normal life. Often times she tells other character that she wishes she was normal, and if taken to the Gallows, various characters comment that it must be a relief for her that she doesn't have to hide anymore.
It's easy for Carver to just point a finger and blame his siblings for his life sucking (essentially, "If you weren't mages, I wouldn't have to live in the shadows for you.") But she is a mage. Since magic is inheritable, it's easier to blame her parents for giving her the magic gene and choosing the apostate lifestyle. If her mother hadn't married an apostate, she might not have been born with magic. Or, at least, if her mother hadn't chosen to run away, they wouldn't have had to hide like rats for years.
Remember how Hawke decides to gain money and influence to bribe the templars into looking the other way at the beginning of Act 1? (Never mind that most families lose money and influence once it's known there's a mage in the family, but whatever.) Bethany probably thinks that if her mother hadn't given up the money and influence in the first place, they could have saved years of moving, working, and hiding out in working poverty.
Then again, I think ALL the Hawkes and Amells are ungrateful, self-entitled, finger-pointing whiners. Leandra constantly whines about everything Gamlen doing for her not being good enough, and blames him for no longer being wealthy despite giving it up when she ran away and refused to return for years on end. Gamlen blames his decision to steal Leandra's wealth on her for being the favorite and running away for years. Carver blames his mage sibling(s) for being unsatisfied with his life. Bethany blames her parents for giving her magic and an apostate lifestyle. It's just a family of finger-pointing whiners.
Modifié par Faerunner, 06 janvier 2013 - 10:25 .
#66
Posté 10 janvier 2013 - 09:34
Renmiri1
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I don't see Bethany like that at all. At first she seems pretty clueless as to why her parents and siblings had her grow up so sheltered all those years. She is afraid of Templars but not terrified of them. Later she sees (w/ Fenril and Trask's daughter I think) what exactly her family was protecting her from, and appreciates it more.
I think all her "whining" about her mom's lost wealth is the staggering guilt of being partly responsible for Leandra losing all that wealth and closeness to her own parents. She goes happily to the Circle, to spare Hawke, Gamel and Leandra from the burden of protecting her forever. Who in their right mind would love the Gallows Circle ? She stays there to put her family at ease, avoiding making them all fugitives yet again. She fakes or finds a moderate happiness there, knowing her loved ones are not being overburdened by her magic.
I think all her "whining" about her mom's lost wealth is the staggering guilt of being partly responsible for Leandra losing all that wealth and closeness to her own parents. She goes happily to the Circle, to spare Hawke, Gamel and Leandra from the burden of protecting her forever. Who in their right mind would love the Gallows Circle ? She stays there to put her family at ease, avoiding making them all fugitives yet again. She fakes or finds a moderate happiness there, knowing her loved ones are not being overburdened by her magic.
Modifié par Renmiri1, 10 janvier 2013 - 09:35 .
#67
Posté 14 janvier 2013 - 09:14
katattax
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In my first playthrough, I disliked Carver so much that I ditched my mage and started over as a rogue. Just recently I played again as a mage and Carver really grew on me. Yes, he's "a bit of a ******" as Aveline says but it's clear he loves his sister, defending you over and over again. I took him into the Deep Roads so he had a chance to prove himself and he became a great Warden. I don't remember feeling this attached to Bethany.
#68
Posté 15 janvier 2013 - 06:52
LobselVith8
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catabuca wrote...
My 1st run was mage Hawke, and I made Carver a grey warden.
I absolutely LOVED their interaction, loved that they had that tension. I loved how even when Hawke spoke the diplomatic or 'top right' lines he still expressed frustration at Carver's attitude. It was clear Carver had a lot of issues being the younger brother living in Hawke's shadow.
But at the end of the game when Carver came back -- oh god it was wonderful. He was thankful for his chance to be a grey warden, and said it had made him realise he needed to do good. Such amazing character growth, and it made me wish there could have been more interaction in the later acts with him.
(not feeling as much love for Beth during my rogue run ... not sure whether to let her die or be taken off to the circle though, either would work as motivation for my pro-mage rogue.)
Yeah, Carver became a Warden for my apostate Hawke, and I thought he became a better person because of his time as a Warden. He seems to go through a lot of growth, and comes to an understanding with his brother when they finally reunite after the explosion.
#69
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 02:12
Renmiri1
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katattax wrote...
In my first playthrough, I disliked Carver so much that I ditched my mage and started over as a rogue. Just recently I played again as a mage and Carver really grew on me. Yes, he's "a bit of a ******" as Aveline says but it's clear he loves his sister, defending you over and over again. I took him into the Deep Roads so he had a chance to prove himself and he became a great Warden. I don't remember feeling this attached to Bethany.
Ya Bethany had no personality, at least not a strong one. Carver is annoying but I love his banter with the oter companions. And Carver Warden is a good thing for him.
#70
Posté 02 février 2013 - 04:45
NightfallXIII
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I actually like Carver more than Bethany, or at least the relationship with him. It seemed more real and...solid, for lack of a better word, than the relationship with Bethany. Bethany seemed kind of one-dimensional as a character to me, or at least I think that's the right term. She was just really annoying to me, and I replaced her with Anders as soon as I got him. And no matter what, she's always ticked with me for some reason. After act one, she seemed to resent me no matter what I did. It's not my fault she got taken by the circle. Heck, I'm half-convinced that she turned herself in. Seriously, Kirkwall Templars are too incompetent to actually find Bethany by themselves. And would she rather I had killed her than make her a Warden? Again, not my fault she got the taint, and I don't even know how that happened.
Carver was annoying too, and really whiny, but the relationship with him was better in my opinion. Despite the fact that he strongly disliked you, he still stuck up for you when it counted. I guess his view of me was, "Can't live with him, but I can't live without him either." Plus, some of his rivalry was understandable, and the arguements we had seemed real and more believable. Or that might be because my sibling conversations are closer to that.
Carver was annoying too, and really whiny, but the relationship with him was better in my opinion. Despite the fact that he strongly disliked you, he still stuck up for you when it counted. I guess his view of me was, "Can't live with him, but I can't live without him either." Plus, some of his rivalry was understandable, and the arguements we had seemed real and more believable. Or that might be because my sibling conversations are closer to that.
#71
Posté 07 juillet 2013 - 09:40
The Velveteen Rabbit
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I love Carver. You fight with him like you would an actual sibling. Bethany doesn't challenge you hardly at all. Yeah, Carver can be a grump a lot of the time, but you have to understand where he's coming from.
The lone warrior in a family of mages, always protecting his sisters from templars, and the Hawke girls probably were closer to their father than Carver since they had to be taught magic. Then he has to go to Ostagar alone...afterward losing his twin sister and moving to a new city for a life he never wanted. Plus, let's face it: he is always overshadowed by Hawke. I just feel kind of bad for him.
And I think Carver and Merrill would be the cutest couple ever.
The lone warrior in a family of mages, always protecting his sisters from templars, and the Hawke girls probably were closer to their father than Carver since they had to be taught magic. Then he has to go to Ostagar alone...afterward losing his twin sister and moving to a new city for a life he never wanted. Plus, let's face it: he is always overshadowed by Hawke. I just feel kind of bad for him.
And I think Carver and Merrill would be the cutest couple ever.
Modifié par The Velveteen Rabbit, 07 juillet 2013 - 09:46 .
#72
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:17
Renmiri1
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Indeed, I ship Carver and Merril.. or Bethany and Sebastian.
Bethany does turn into a grumpy Warden if she goes with you to the Deep Roads and survives. She blames you for the mishap.
Bethany does turn into a grumpy Warden if she goes with you to the Deep Roads and survives. She blames you for the mishap.
