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Ok, bioware. I'm really annoyed over this product.


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#1
SilentWolfie

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There's plenty of things that I felt the game taking 1 or 2 steps backwards, like how healing stuff is nerfed beyond words, and map designs are reused. Doesn't help that your game has NO stats check, which I find pretty darn important. It's like saying you have no bloody idea what your character is going to say, and ANY singular influence to the storyline. Pfff.

But the worst lot is how I tried to raise Carver's friendship over 60 pts (and given the amount of tedium to do it) and he dies in the craig, with no warning and no reason WHY he contracted the blight. If he got the blight, why didn't the older Hawke got it?  Nope, he dies within 10 seconds and I'm really frustrated at the amount of BS shown (Sorry brother. Ends.). Now I have to create a female Hawke (another frigging mage) and cheat in my next gameplay to raise his pts to 100 and see what's going to happen.

AND NO. Don't tell me about how it's necessary to bring Anders in because he's a gray warden. I build my hawke as a healer and this shouldn't bloody happen. FFFFFF.

Yes, there are pros like how battles are fluid and geared to the casual gamers. I don't spend as much time as before, and it's not as if the previous DA:O had better battle gameplay. But this, just reeks of desperate attempts to push the product out faster.

Bioware, it's not sad (how the brother died). It's just makes your fans really, really, really upset (hey it rhymes!).

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 11 mars 2011 - 04:12 .


#2
Zalocx

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a) The Blight is not airborne, Carver may have gotten it by getting Darkspawn blood in his wounds where as other party members may not have.

B) It doesn't MATTER how good of a healer you are, Flemeth says it herself "the only cure I know of is to become a Gray Warden". If the eons old Dragon-Witch can't heal the Blight your 20-something hedge-mage has no chance.

c) Carver's friend level does not matter, he gets infected. Being good friends with him does not magically make him immune to darkspawn.

I liked that Bioware did this, it showed that Wardens are the outliers after all the time we spent drenched in 'spawn blood in Origins. That normal people drop like flies even if they win against the Darkspawn, thus further cementing why GWs are necessary. Plus time grinding approval values should not mean EVERYTHING magically goes your way. Its boring if the story was about how hawke never lost anything or anyone and could always save the day

#3
SilentWolfie

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That's not what I meant.

The only way to save carver is to bring Anders along with him. I'm already a healer, and bringing anders along is just plain silly. 2 healers in a party? I'm already tied up with Varric as the locked character, so if I bring along Anders+Carver, then it means I have ZERO other picks! Bioware could have made it that the main character meets grey wardens without Anders being there, surely.

You like Bioware screwing up your party picks and your party equipments? Good for you. I certainly don't!

There's no relation towards infected for friendship. Bioware presented you a splatter of choices where your brother runs to the templars OR goes with you and dies there OR goes with you and you have to pick Anders to go along if you want to save your brother.

What. The. Heck??! All 3 choices are really s****y! It's like asking you if you like to die by a) Sword, B) Bow and arrow, c) Magic.

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 11 mars 2011 - 04:07 .


#4
tele286

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Oh I agree competley. If you play the warrior role you get bethany instead of carver and I also complained at the lack of choices. To me it is a cop out that your decisions have no outcome on what happens to characters brother or sister you spent hours building up.

And I do not think that its good writing killing off your last sibling. Its just a cheap emotional trick.

#5
JoshMeinzer

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I've bought every Bioware game from Baldur's Gate on, at release and am very satisfied with this game, so try not to generalize about what "fans" think.

One of the ways I suppose you could save Carver is to simply not bring him, if it plays out like Bethany did. Tragedy is a theme of the game too, so death is to be expected, and averting it seems to be the exception, not the rule.

As for healing, I am suspecting one of the intentions was that Bioware wanted us to be less reliant on them. I ran a great deal of my playthroughs without one, even the high dragon fight (on normal diff). Generally it appears you either want a healer, or a tank, and having both is a luxury. As I leveled up, I found Aveline and Fenris (who I respecced as a tank) became very tough, allowing myself (as a rogue) and the other DPS to rip apart enemies in short fashion. As the game progresses, dmg and toughness goes up for the party, reliance on healing goes down.

#6
SilentWolfie

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Are you serious? The theme is tragedy?

I'm playing on hard the first time round, and the Rock wraith in Act 1 is nearly impossible because of the cooldown (and I didn't buy enough healing potions, had 3 of them). I spent an hour, clicking on my allies to stand behind the rocks and try to avoid the boss, while my ranged attacked it. Less reliant on potions my foot. This instantly turned into a stupid click here, avoid boss attacks all controlled by me. The AI did nothing to avoid the boss attacks, talk about "smart" tactics slot where it does nothing except hamper my progress.

I didn't feel I accomplish anything after beating the boss, because it was CHEESE. I mean I kept running around like hell, and it's not even about tactics. Then when Carver died, that was the bloody last straw that broke the camel's back. Stupid AI, never mind, how about brother that "mysteriously" got infected and died without giving me an option.

The RAGE. What's the point of me trying so hard to keep everyone alive and not rewarding me for the bloody effort!?

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 11 mars 2011 - 07:32 .


#7
Hoax86

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Shouldn't senseless whiners be on Metacritic rating it 0?

#8
Taritu

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I sort of liked Bethany dying from the Plague (which is what happened to me.) I did consider bringing Anders because he's a warden, but for party balance reasons I decided not to, and also because who cares if one character is immune the the taint when the other three aren't? But it did feel a bit forced.

I suspect the issue is twofold: first, they're doing what they should have done in DA I, have the taint take someone who matters to the player/main character, instead of having a whole party running around in darkspawn gore never getting infected. Ho hum, the taint was meainingless in DA I, a game supposedly all about the Darkspawn.

Second: as a meta issue, they probably didn't want to create two full characters through all the acts when most players would only see one of them. I think that's a pity, since it would have increased replay significantly, and also because, frankly, I liked Bethany FAR more than any of my other companions. Not only because of personality, but because she is a very flexible mage.even if she doesn't get spec points.

I am dissapointed also to find out you can't keep them in the party. I actually, after losing Bethany, thought about replaying through and checking to see if I could save her, but decided not to. I think it's a pity that you can't make decisions which lead to keeping you with her.

That said, I can certainly see how option 2 (she gets taken by the circle) would change the rest of the game. If the Circle took my sister while I was away, there would be no question who I'd side with at the end: Meredith would be one dead templar the second I had a chance to kill her, and if the Templar order had to go down to get my sister out of the Chantry, then so be it.

As for combat, it is more visceral and less tactical. I am bloody sick of enemies constantly spawning in waves, so that I can almost never set up proper chock points and protect my ranged people properly, but have to run around protecting everyone every time a new wave spawns.  When DA I did spawning (on the PC, I didn't play console) it tended to be much more sensible OR make some sense (ie, creatures which could burrow).

Also, on hard, I simply don't see how you could beat, say, the Arishok as a rogue, given he constantly knockdowns (which defense is not a defense against, since they auto hit and you have no str to resist), without a combination of running in circles and real micro management, doding his moves manually.  I eventually concluded I could do it, but it would take me well over an hour.  I turned it to normal, and it still took me 20 minutes or so of stupidity.  Same thing with some other boss fights, they required insane micro management.  And lord help you if you lose your one rogue/mage/warrior and suddenly can't do cross-class combos.  You might as well slit your wrist right there, you'll still win the boss battle, but it will take FOREVER.

Mind you, I enjoy the game overall, good story (better than DA, I'd say), lots of fun, but in certain key respects it is not an upgrade from DA 1, imo. 

Also, seems to be a bit buggy. 

Healers are not necessary.  Hell, nothing is necessary on Normal, really, except in a very few bosses, as long as you have at least some potions.  When I play on normal I can run 3 rogues and a 2 handed warrior and come out ok.

Modifié par Taritu, 11 mars 2011 - 07:57 .


#9
MR445

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Thankfully I read about the Deep Roads before I got there so I could leave Bethany out of the party.

However you guys who are all over Bioware's balls right now have to understand how frustrating it would be to just lose a character because you didn't look into the quest to avoid spoilers. You miss out on so many small but great aspects of the story in acts 2 and 3 if your sibling dies in the Deep Roads.

#10
Edge2177

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Anders can save her.

#11
Ke11iente

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Also, it's not "out of nowhere" that he/she gets corrupted by the taint. During the cutscene when I found Sandal, Bethany was standing in the background pinching the bridge of her nose and looking tired or something while the rest of us were all "Yay, good Sandal, Boom!"
The second I saw that, I went. "Oh crap, what's gonna happen to Bethy?"

I can't count the number of times I yelled "$%^# you Bioware!" while playing this game, but always in a good way.
Maybe I'm just a sado-masochist.

#12
Surekill83

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game is just dumbed down for the casual console gamers. i missed the strategies u use to have to use.

#13
JoshMeinzer

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MR445 wrote...

Thankfully I read about the Deep Roads before I got there so I could leave Bethany out of the party.

However you guys who are all over Bioware's balls right now have to understand how frustrating it would be to just lose a character because you didn't look into the quest to avoid spoilers. You miss out on so many small but great aspects of the story in acts 2 and 3 if your sibling dies in the Deep Roads.


That's the nature of RPGs.  You make a decision, and live with it. At no time is it guaranteed Bethany would die.  But you bring her to the Deep Roads, all bets are off.

I looked at it this way... after the mother's impassioned plea to have Bethany remain, I really thought about it. Would *I* drag my little sister into a place like the Deep Roads, especially after losing my brother?  Would I leave my mother alone at that point?

Of course not, and so I didn't.

#14
Darkreaper48

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Taritu wrote...

You might as well slit your wrist right there, you'll still win the boss battle, but it will take FOREVER.


Well, that's what Merill does in my party, and it usually works out well for her.

#15
MR445

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JoshMeinzer wrote...

That's the nature of RPGs.  You make a decision, and live with it. At no time is it guaranteed Bethany would die.  But you bring her to the Deep Roads, all bets are off.

I looked at it this way... after the mother's impassioned plea to have Bethany remain, I really thought about it. Would *I* drag my little sister into a place like the Deep Roads, especially after losing my brother?  Would I leave my mother alone at that point?

Of course not, and so I didn't.


Except Bethany tried her hardest to get you to take her, so you also have the choice of respecting your sister's decision or not. There is a friendship/rivalry bar with your sister, which affects gameplay, which can't be said for your mother. And I know refusing to take her results in no F/R points but the person just starting out has no idea.

#16
Wildcat84

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I'm very disappointed myself.  This game is dumbed down compared to DAO, is much shorter, and the story is terrible and poorly implimented.  I feel like events are being DICTATED to us, despite our character being the "most important person in the world" we are spectators.  The storyline proceeds regardless of what we do.  You brother or sister dies.  The survivor is taken away from you at act 1.  Your mother is killed despite what you do.  Regardless of your choice, one of your companion leaves with the stolen artifact.

I'm barely into Act 3 and I have already lost all enthusiasm for this game.  I figured Bioware would eventually get the full EA treatment and turn to crap but I was hoping to get a couple more great games out of it before this happened.  

We're at this point.  Not only will I NOT be buying any DLC for this game (an atrocity in and of itself given the game's shortness compared to DAO) I've pretty much lost interest in Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars The Old Republic.

Bioware, was great knowing you.  I look forward to the new startup that comes after your best Devs leave (ala Black Isle) and we can get great RPG's again.  DA2 is a great example of why huge corporations like EA have to go BUY creative companies because they can't create themselves, but despite this once they have that creative company slowly squeeze it to death like a snake and it's prey.  They milk companies like Origin or Bioware of all their energy, then take the profits and go buy another company to destroy.

Modifié par Wildcat84, 11 mars 2011 - 06:19 .


#17
TEWR

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Surekill83 wrote...

game is just dumbed down for the casual console gamers. i missed the strategies u use to have to use.


what a very intellectually stimulating comment, especially since the games were developed for each system separately.

#18
reddragon567

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SilentWolfie wrote...

That's not what I meant.

The only way to save carver is to bring Anders along with him. I'm already a healer, and bringing anders along is just plain silly. 2 healers in a party? I'm already tied up with Varric as the locked character, so if I bring along Anders+Carver, then it means I have ZERO other picks! Bioware could have made it that the main character meets grey wardens without Anders being there, surely.


Anders doesn't ahve to be a healer you know. With Vengence he makes a ridiculously pwoerful nuker as well.

So Carver as your tank, a healer (you) verric rogue and Anders Nuker.

You're pretty much set.

#19
boraxalmighty

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Wildcat84 wrote...

I'm very disappointed myself.  This game is dumbed down compared to DAO, is much shorter, and the story is terrible and poorly implimented.  I feel like events are being DICTATED to us, despite our character being the "most important person in the world" we are spectators.  The storyline proceeds regardless of what we do.  You brother or sister dies.  The survivor is taken away from you at act 1.  Your mother is killed despite what you do.  Regardless of your choice, one of your companion leaves with the stolen artifact.

I'm barely into Act 3 and I have already lost all enthusiasm for this game.  I figured Bioware would eventually get the full EA treatment and turn to crap but I was hoping to get a couple more great games out of it before this happened.  

We're at this point.  Not only will I NOT be buying any DLC for this game (an atrocity in and of itself given the game's shortness compared to DAO) I've pretty much lost interest in Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars The Old Republic.

Bioware, was great knowing you.  I look forward to the new startup that comes after your best Devs leave (ala Black Isle) and we can get great RPG's again.  DA2 is a great example of why huge corporations like EA have to go BUY creative companies because they can't create themselves, but despite this once they have that creative company slowly squeeze it to death like a snake and it's prey.  They milk companies like Origin or Bioware of all their energy, then take the profits and go buy another company to destroy.




Christ people the story IS NOT dictated by you because you are NOT telling it!!! You dictate Hawke and thats it. It is a retelling of the events that his legend is built on. You control his actions leading up to events and his reactions to those events not the events themselves!

#20
Templar_Avenger_1

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I am overall a bit dissapointed in this game. Not to say it was a bad game but.... just..... not what I expected. It certainley was dumbed down because now there is just wave after wave after wave of the same demon, darkspawn, human bandit, etc. etc. And its not like it was in DA1 when the reinforcments coming in actually made sense. Or there wouldn't be reinforcments at all. I can get some of the decisions in this game that have an outcome but... some I just.... hated becuase there was nothing I really thought I could do to avoid it. Another thing I dislike was when I came back from the deep roads to see my sister being taken to the circle, without explanation. It's just like "Oh hey, while you were gone somthing happened and now your sisters being taken to the circle." As well there were many, many, moments I was saying "WTF!!!" because something I REALLY did not expect happened or something I tried to avoid ended up happeneing becuase of one small slip up.

As well I miss the old Dragon Age conversations and I hate that Bioware took Mass Effects conversation wheel. My character never said what I wanted him to say, or it never game me the option to say what I wanted to. Often it would be either "Let him go, or, kill him" and I hated this because if I thought they were in the middle somewere and they had something to do with this but not enough to get them killed it didn't give me the choice to have me watch him its either give him freedom or kill him. I liked how in DA1 when your in the dungeons of Redcliffe castle and you meet Jowan you can either, kill him, let him go, or have him go with you but you watch him closely. And often it would never say what I wanted my character to say. I end up trying to make a bit of a joke and it comes out as offensive and, Guess who loses loyalty points!!!?

I can see why they used the loyalty points though and I liked that however. Its a bit.... strange how it works though. I did the quest were you have to go into the fade to save the elven womans son feynriel, or however its spelled, from the demons. And when I get into the gameplay, I had merril in my party at the time, I see Merril had disapproval points. For what, I don't know. I think they could at least explain WHY you lost points. I think it was that the keeper would never do the same ritual for Merril if something like that happened. And, if thats the case, then thats STUPID! Why would she hate ME over some fued with the Keeper? Even the slightest thing can make your allies hate you. It always seems like, in every game, its easier to be evil and hated rather than be good and loved by everyone.

Overall I think that this game was.... a bit rushed and quite dumbed down from what it could have been. Commenting on what happenes in the deep roads with your brother/sister if you don't take Anders I think that could have been a good seen.. Key word COULD HAVE.  All you see is your sister/brother fall down then you fade, after some talking, and you see him/her in your arms and your telling how much you'll love/miss them and everything like that and then FADE. You don't even get to see Hawke stab, not to sound heartless, your sibling. There was so much potential for this scene and yet... nothing. And before anyone starts yelling yes I got it off of someone else but I completely agree. Here's the guys website if you want to see his thoughts on it. http://z7.invisionfr...p?showtopic=975

I think this game was..... alright, rushed but alright. I'm still unsure of which I like better this or Dragon Age Origins/Awakening. Its a bit tied. I like the combat a bit, miss some of the things from the last game and I'm not even going to try the tactics becuase I already have and... no just no. I think that the story line is pretty good though and some of the choices you make are pretty interesting as well as some of the cutscenes. Dragon Age II is not my favorite game but its not the worst I've ever played.

#21
TEWR

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did you have anders in your party when you went in? if so that's why according to a few things. They don't really get along well because of how Anders treats Merrill sometimes. otherwise it's probably just a bug because this game does have a lot of bugs, like most new releases.

#22
JamesX

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Just a reminder, Anders did not save your sibling. He told you where the Wardens are and they saved your sibling. I like the way Bioware did that, it shows that sometimes common sense happen. Fighting Dark Spawn is dangerous. If you insist on bringing someone into a dark spawn infested area (who are not Gray Wardens) then you will have to face the possibility that they die from nothing more than a few drop of Dark Spawn blood going into a open wound.

I brought Anders because it made sense.  Gray Warden.... Deep Roads... Makes perfect sense.

Modifié par JamesX, 14 mars 2011 - 10:34 .


#23
TEWR

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JamesX wrote...

Just a reminder, Anders did not save your sibling. He told you where the Wardens are and they saved your sibling. I like the way Bioware did that, it shows that sometimes common sense happen. Fighting Dark Spawn is dangerous. If you insist on bringing someone into a dark spawn infested area (who are not Gray Wardens) then you will have to face the possibility that they die from nothing more than a few drop of Dark Spawn blood going into a open wound.

I brought Anders because it made sense.  Gray Warden.... Deep Roads... Makes perfect sense.


exactly. some people don't want to use common sense it seems, and feel a game should cater to their every whim. But if it doesn't, oh no the world is ending and all good games are gone.

I would rather Bioware makes a game that THEY feel is what it should be then letting all the fans dictate what the games should be. We just give our opinions on what we like and don't like, but we're not supposed to be telling them to do this and that.

#24
Wissenschaft

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Err, the game play is design around being able to dodge enemies attacks which you actually need to do in order to win a lot of boss fights. The devs mentioned more than once in interviews that thats one of the ways they felt they improved combat. Unlike origins, you see an attack coming your not going to be auto hit. You can dodge it. Hence part of the reason healing is harder, you can take a lot less damage if you mirco your character.

On hard and nightmare your expects to micro your whole party. If this is too tedious or if some boss fights just take too long than lower the difficulty down just for that fight. Theres no reason to feel ashamed about it and the ability to change difficulty int he middle of the game is there for a very good reason.

#25
Conora Lance

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Honestly people, your complaining about the taint when all in all honesty most of you found it silly people were immune to it in the first one. More amusingly however is the fact that if you look at the first game Oghren (yes DAOA spoiler) became a Grey Warden, chances are most of your party had the potential to become Grey Warden's while you lacked the ability to make them Grey Wardens. So they probably had a minor form of the Grey Warden abilties or hell some of them may have been suffering with the taint and hiding it.

Like any disease and illness the effectiveness and duration of any illness is dependent on the person infected. Now as any good commander would tell you... You gather up people likely to survive the taint to help you combat the blight. The warden probably didn't recruit them after the blight (if s/he survived) because s/he didn't want to force an early death on his/her friends!

As for the difficulty of the fights it's really not that freaking hard, if your running low on health potions loot the corpses during combat, chances are they'll have a freaking health potion on them, Or you know you could invest in some lifeward potions or if you have them elfroot potions. You don't need to really on healing potions quite so much because you have other potions and things to improve your combat effectiveness... Including my favourite potion of Grey Warden in a bottle....