17 réponses à ce sujet

[Autumn Crowe]

There are a couple issues I had with this game overall, but I think my biggest issue is the mages.

Every single mage you meet in this game is either evil, possessed, or had some dealings with demons (to get blood magic).  Including your companions (though I'm not sure this is the case with Bethany, as I played a mage, but she'd be the one exception to the rule).  Anders goes freaking insane terrorist on you, Merrill made deals with a demon and tried to assemble the mirror, the "reasonable" First Enchanter goes mad and after lectures and fighting for mages' rights decides to embrace blood magic at the end.  Even the Keeper decides to prematurely take the demon into herself.

You met a lot more nice and reasonable templars than you did mages. 

I don't know if this was to try and justify the treatment of mages through the Thedas setting, but I do find it kind of ridiculous.  Maybe there were some sane mages that didn't embrace blood magic/demons hiding somewhere in the background, but from what we encountered, other than Hawke, they all seem to be evil and desperate.  Even when you side with the mages and are running to the keep you meet blood mages along the way who attack you.  It's bad enough that I do wonder about what the First Enchanter said - why not drown them as babies if they're all that way and are going to do those things?

And this is coming from a mage supporter.

Modifié par Autumn Crowe, 11 mars 2011 - 03:49 .

[RavenStorm]

Yep One or more of the writers has a disturbing obsession with possession.

[Mordern]

Yeah, I'm guessing they were trying to show the depths mages will turn to in the face of this persecution. But yes, there is literally not one mage in the game who does not at one point turn to blood magic or attempt to kill you.

Kind of made me feel like a dick for siding with the mages.

[Okusenman]

I can think of a couple of good mages. Buddy who kidnapped your bro/sis/companion but didn't want to kill them either and the dorky drunk Emelie(?) at the hanged man.

Does Flemeth count? Cause she totally hooks up the champion =P

[fantasypisces]

Yup, we have been discussing it at this link:
http://social.biowar...index/6454669/1

[LobselVith8]

The problem is the storyline lacked an apostate POV and positive mage characters to act as counterparts to Ser Thrask and Knight-Captain Cullen outside of Hawke's inner circle. No one acknowledged Hawke as an apostate, he was in no real danger from the templars or the Chantry, and even when he used magic in front of guards or templars, all of them mysteriously forgot that he was capable of doing it. Instead, apostate Hawke and Bethany were in a bubble until a specific time, and then we got hammered with mage antagonists who seemed to be completely unaware that Hawke wasn't a templar supporter and was a mage, or in the company of mages. We were forced down a linear progression, where we had no choice, and many of our actions really didn't matter.

[kedcoleman]

Look into the Enigma of Kirkwall codex entries. They might help shed some light on just why it's so prevalent in Kirkwall.

Basically, the entire city was built to be a massive sacrificial altar.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The problem is the storyline lacked an apostate POV and positive mage characters to act as counterparts to Ser Thrask and Knight-Captain Cullen outside of Hawke's inner circle. No one acknowledged Hawke as an apostate, he was in no real danger from the templars or the Chantry, and even when he used magic in front of guards or templars, all of them mysteriously forgot that he was capable of doing it. Instead, apostate Hawke and Bethany were in a bubble until a specific time, and then we got hammered with mage antagonists who seemed to be completely unaware that Hawke wasn't a templar supporter and was a mage, or in the company of mages. We were forced down a linear progression, where we had no choice, and many of our actions really didn't matter.

That's not our fault, though.

[Torax]

The key thing to understand is it's a weak way they attempt to cram evil mages on the player to help justify the genocide of all mages that Meredith requires at the end of Act 3. Just like they show the player these extra depraved ways that mages work. So you can go "Maybe she is right?". Since no matter what either you or your sister were mages as a minimum. Isn't like Meredith would stop at just you or the sibling...

[Casuist]

necro... but regardless:

Tobrius
Alain
Ella
Bethany
PapaHawke
PossiblyHawke
Marethari
Emile deLauncet
Feynriel (though he needs help)
Terrie
-practically every mage we see a Templar kill

There are a broad set of completely innocent/moral mages. They stand out less because they don't try to kill you and everything else in the room, and it wouldn't make for a very interesting game if everyone you met was willing to simply talk over their problems like civilized people.

The uncommon frequency of mages turning to blood magic or becoming possessed?

1) They're under a lot of pressure
2) There ARE foreign elements instigating conflict, intentionally or unintentionally
3) Thin veil

The first act is the only one in which there is not a compelling civic reason for the Templars to overlook Hawke/Bethany. In the first act, the perspective they tend to follow is "well, at least you're helping out" or "you may be legitimate."

For example, Varric specifically calls you out as a mage to the Templars during Act of Mercy if given a chance.

Thrask is sympathetic.

Emeric needs your help.

I wish the story would have handled Cullen's interaction with mages better, but he, as a case in point, clearly establishes an awareness of mage Hawkes at the end of act I.

Modifié par Casuist, 02 avril 2011 - 03:20 .

[TJPags]

Casuist wrote...

Tobrius
Alain
Ella
Bethany
PapaHawke
PossiblyHawke
Marethari
Emile deLauncet
Feynriel (though he needs help)
Terrie
-practically every mage we see a Templar kill

Just to point out, Alain is a blood mage (if thats the guy I think he is), we never meet PapaHawke, Marethari does go abomination, and Feynriel is living happily in Tevinter.  And Emile . . .well, he's lame. 

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The problem is the storyline lacked an apostate POV and positive mage characters to act as counterparts to Ser Thrask and Knight-Captain Cullen outside of Hawke's inner circle. No one acknowledged Hawke as an apostate, he was in no real danger from the templars or the Chantry, and even when he used magic in front of guards or templars, all of them mysteriously forgot that he was capable of doing it. Instead, apostate Hawke and Bethany were in a bubble until a specific time, and then we got hammered with mage antagonists who seemed to be completely unaware that Hawke wasn't a templar supporter and was a mage, or in the company of mages. We were forced down a linear progression, where we had no choice, and many of our actions really didn't matter.

That's not our fault, though.

Did I say it was?

[Casuist]

Alain is the Starkhaven mage who runs from Decimus during act of mercy. I wouldn't count his involvement in Best Served Cold under Grace's domination as much in the way of corruption (and doing so would taint Thrask as well).

...and Marethari's case is a fairly exceptional circumstance.

Modifié par Casuist, 02 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The problem is the storyline lacked an apostate POV and positive mage characters to act as counterparts to Ser Thrask and Knight-Captain Cullen outside of Hawke's inner circle. No one acknowledged Hawke as an apostate, he was in no real danger from the templars or the Chantry, and even when he used magic in front of guards or templars, all of them mysteriously forgot that he was capable of doing it. Instead, apostate Hawke and Bethany were in a bubble until a specific time, and then we got hammered with mage antagonists who seemed to be completely unaware that Hawke wasn't a templar supporter and was a mage, or in the company of mages. We were forced down a linear progression, where we had no choice, and many of our actions really didn't matter.

That's not our fault, though.

Did I say it was?

No.  But it makes it hard to objectively side with mages based on what we see in this game.

Casuist wrote...

Alain is the Starkhaven mage who runs from Decimus during act of mercy. I wouldn't count his involvement in Best Served Cold under Grace's domination as much in the way of corruption (and doing so would taint Thrask as well).

That's what I thought.  He is a blood mage - he uses blood magic without being under her domination.  Uses it for a good cause, I admit, but still - blood mage.

[Gabey5]

normal mages are boring

[Casuist]

That's what I thought. He is a blood mage - he uses blood magic without being under her domination. Uses it for a good cause, I admit, but still - blood mage.

...to wake up Grace's captive because there's no other way? That's the "blood mage" definition that renders the term moot when speaking to the moral character or lack therof of mages in the game.

[LobselVith8]

Casuist wrote...

Alain is the Starkhaven mage who runs from Decimus during act of mercy. I wouldn't count his involvement in Best Served Cold under Grace's domination as much in the way of corruption (and doing so would taint Thrask as well).

...and Marethari's case is a fairly exceptional circumstance.

He does mention he's a victim of templar rape in Act II, so that could explain why he joined Ser Thrask and Grace in Act III.

[Casuist]

Meredith, Ulric et al fairly well explain anyone joining Grace. Unfortunately, Grace and others managed to work in misplaced resentment against the champion along with the the better targets.