288 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

tbsking wrote...

You know, now might be a good time to chime in and say that I, and the rest of the naysayers who were all told to just wait and see and stop saying the sky was falling, turned out to be quite right.

Depends.

I don't think you're right.  Does that invalidate your position, or mine?  Or does it simply not matter?  I'm gonna go with that one.

"Predictions" such as they are, are worth even less than opinions 'round here.  

tbsking wrote...

I truly don't understand how you can say DA2 is superior to Origins.

They removed or didn't change stuff I didn't care about, added things I do care about, and told a story I found enjoyable.  But that's not really important - you don't have to understand why I or others like me feel the way we do, only acknowledge that we do without also insinuating that we must be idiots or presume to know our motivations.  So many people fail to do this, and that's why "Bioware sheep" end up getting upset.  It's not the game or the company we end up defending so vociferously, but ourselves,  by the implications that we must be blind morons to think the way we do.

It's about respect.  People can claim in a respectful manner that some of my favorite games are terrible - and some have.  It's possible.  But it's not something I've come to expect.  And not something I've always been able to follow through on myself, for that matter.  It's just the way it goes, I guess.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 mars 2011 - 05:45 .

[Goofy McCoy]

casedawgz wrote...

You can beat Fallout 3 in under 2 hours, which negates at least a good third of the DA2 complaints, which are often about length.

I don't follow that logic, and I really don't think you should try to reason it out.

Putting aside any bias, DA2 is a linear game. It's designed that way, there isn't a way around that.
F3 is an open game, where in you can bypass immeasurable ammounts of content if you so choose, because player choice is one of the fundemental elements of the game.

I'd imagine F3 DEMOLISHES DA2 on the other end of that same spectrum, for someone who 100% every bit of either game. It's just not a strong position to argue from, mate.

[tbsking]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

tbsking wrote...

You know, now might be a good time to chime in and say that I, and the rest of the naysayers who were all told to just wait and see and stop saying the sky was falling, turned out to be quite right.

Depends.

I don't think you're right.  Does that invalidate your position, or mine?  Or does it simply not matter?  I'm gonna go with that one.

"Predictions" such as they are, are worth even less than opinions 'round here.  

tbsking wrote...

I truly don't understand how you can say DA2 is superior to Origins.

They removed or didn't change stuff I didn't care about, added things I do care about, and told a story I found enjoyable.  But that's not really important - you don't have to understand why I or others like me feel the way we do, only acknowledge that we do without also insinuating that we must be idiots or presume to know our motivations.  So many people fail to do this, and that's why "Bioware sheep" end up getting upset.  It's not the game or the company we end up defending so vociferously, but ourselves,  by the implications that we must be blind morons to think the way we do.

It's about respect.  People can claim in a respectful manner that some of my favorite games are terrible - and some have.  It's possible.  But it's not something I've come to expect.  And not something I've always been able to follow through on myself, for that matter.  It's just the way it goes, I guess.

I certianly don't intend any disrespect. I do mean, truthfully, that I don't - on a personal level - understand how DA2 could be considered better. I love DAO. It's probably my favorite game. I thought nearly all of it was great, with execution to match.

When it comes to DA2, I could draft a laundry list of complaints, but I think it boils down to the fact that I find the execution to be terrible. And now we have this quote from Inon Zur that more or less says it was rushed out of the gates, and my laundry list of complaints seem far more valid.

[Euno17]

tbsking wrote...

You know, now might be a good time to chime in and say that I, and the rest of the naysayers who were all told to just wait and see and stop saying the sky was falling, turned out to be quite right.

I truly don't understand how you can say DA2 is superior to Origins. Not only were there simply less features than in DAO, there was less story, less characterization for companions, less time spent on making environments and backgrounds.

But everyone is excited that combat is faster and the PC speaks, so maybe EA/Bioware figured out where the money lay.

I agree with this completely. In-fact I'm dumb-founded by the fanbio's of this game.

How in the hell does someone say a game (DA: 2) with ridiculously  LESS content then its predecessor (DA: O) is superior? How many of you 'love' staying in kirkwall? If you say that you 'love'
staying in that horrible city then your lying to yourself lol.

DA: 2 you STAY in one freaking city. Not even a good city at that.
The enviroment is so re-hashed I'm not SURE I'VE EVER see a game re-hash as MUCH as DA: 2. Seriously! 
You can't equip your party members
You skip around, so that years go by.
The new dialogue wheel is a JOKE.

I don't understand. I mean usually it's based on people's opinion but I mean come on - How can DA: 2 be better? It's an insult to even COMPARE it to DA: O.

DA 2 is 'better' because what? of faster combat? This is a CLEAR case of style over substance. The 'pretty' effects are there to 'distract' the players from the fact that they've played in the same area ten times before... and somehow it's worked on a few people . . . It's pretty sad. . .

[konokonohamaru]

Did anyone notice that [score] was in square brackets, and also the editor's note?

Way to put words in Inon Zur's mouth.

[Pandaman102]

konokonohamaru wrote...

Did anyone notice that [score] was in square brackets, and also the editor's note?

Way to put words in Inon Zur's mouth.

Did you notice that a year is still a year regardless of what you do or where you are? If the composer was rushed, the development team wouldn't have had it any easier - and arguably Zur would have had an easier time because his work couldn't be impacted by delays in other teams.

[RohanD]

konokonohamaru wrote...

In my opinion, Bioware's Mass Effect team should have a lot of power over EA because I think, at this point, Bioware doesn't need EA to market Mass Effect 3 for it. If it's true that EA is bullying Bioware's Dragon Age team, then I think the Mass Effect team should bully EA in return.

This is an interesting point. But who's to say the Mass Effect team won't start to view the DA team as a dead weight after this whole thing.

Game companies split over stuff like this, arguments over publishers, budgets, deadlines, targets, this is basically what the business is run on. 

Frankly, I will not be surprised if this is the end of Dragon Age for a while, especially if the sales are lower than DA:O. 

If that happens, I think it would be an opening for people from the DA team to leave, start up their own company (like Obsidian) and go back to making the games we love.

Now that I've said that, I kind of hope it happens, like tomorrow.

Modifié par RohanD, 11 mars 2011 - 06:14 .

[konokonohamaru]

Pandaman102 wrote...

konokonohamaru wrote...

Did anyone notice that [score] was in square brackets, and also the editor's note?

Way to put words in Inon Zur's mouth.

Did you notice that a year is still a year regardless of what you do or where you are? If the composer was rushed, the development team wouldn't have had it any easier - and arguably Zur would have had an easier time because his work couldn't be impacted by delays in other teams.

That's exactly what I'm saying - that the development team was rushed.  It's just funny to me how IGN goes to incredible lengths to try and pretend that only the score was rushed, when clearly Inon was referring to the whole game.

[RohanD]

 Don't you love the little editor's note which comes after the gaffe?

Paid off IGN editor wrote...


Zur is speaking about bugs in the score only; he had no involvement with the rest of the game's development

Riiiight, bugs in the score? Come on, man, try harder would you? 

Seriously...

Modifié par RohanD, 11 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[Euno17]

RohanD wrote...

This is an interesting point. But who's to say the Mass Effect team won't start to view the DA team as a dead weight after this whole thing.

Game companies split over stuff like this, arguments over publishers, budgets, deadlines, targets, this is basically what the business is run on. 

Frankly, I will not be surprised if this is the end of Dragon Age for a while, especially if the sales are lower than DA:O. 

If that happens, I think it would be an opening for people from the DA team to leave, start up their own company (like Obsidian) and go back to making the games we love.

Now that I've said that, I kind of hope it happens, like tomorrow.

Where'd they get the money to start their own company? 

The fact is - Bioware did this to themsevles. Granted it was for a huge amount of money (860 mill) but they HAD to know what they were getting into when they attached themsevles to EA.

[Aermas]

Goofy McCoy wrote...

I'd be wary of posting things of this nature, it's come up recently that attempts to paint EA in a negative light may be grounds for blocking not just posting privileges here on the forum, but general use of purchased products as well.

Extrapolation on what those grounds are exactly did not come up before the "end of line", so proceed with caution.

They cannot ban us if we don't "say" anything. Change your profile pic to a Volus to "voice" your displeasure
Viva la Re-Volus-ion

[konokonohamaru]

RohanD wrote...

 Don't you love the little editor's note which comes after the gaffe?

Paid off IGN editor wrote...


Zur is speaking about bugs in the score only; he had no involvement with the rest of the game's development

Riiiight, bugs in the score? Come on, man, try harder would you? 

Seriously...

I know.  Incredibly shameless.  Especially inserting [score] into Inon Zur's sentence.  I'm pretty sure that's not the proper use of square brackets inserts.   Journalism at its finest :sarcasm:

[RohanD]

Euno17 wrote...

RohanD wrote...

This is an interesting point. But who's to say the Mass Effect team won't start to view the DA team as a dead weight after this whole thing.

Game companies split over stuff like this, arguments over publishers, budgets, deadlines, targets, this is basically what the business is run on. 

Frankly, I will not be surprised if this is the end of Dragon Age for a while, especially if the sales are lower than DA:O. 

If that happens, I think it would be an opening for people from the DA team to leave, start up their own company (like Obsidian) and go back to making the games we love.

Now that I've said that, I kind of hope it happens, like tomorrow.

Where'd they get the money to start their own company? 

The fact is - Bioware did this to themsevles. Granted it was for a huge amount of money (860 mill) but they HAD to know what they were getting into when they attached themsevles to EA.

The same way any company gets most of their money, from investors.

Here's how it usually goes down:

• people with talent and integrity get pissed off by being told what to do by bosses who care nothing about the quality of work, just the bottom line
• said people get so pissed off that they leave the company
• they then band together to form their own company
• they have a lot of talent and approach various investors staying "hey, we created game X and it is one of the most popular games of all time. We have the knowledge, drive and technical skills to reproduce a game that will sell millions. Please invest in our new company"
• Inevitably some smart investors see the potential in this new company and give them money
• The company uses this money to create an awesome game
• The company keeps doing this until it gets huge and gets bought again by a bug publisher like EA
• Lather, rinse, repeat. Always repeat.

[Supersomething]

Sick of EA taking the games I like and butchering them to make their bottom line at the expense of decent gameplay. I realize that these buisnesses are out here to make money but at least remember the roots from where you came from and how you started. (Making better than average games)

Seems today a lot of companies would rather nickle and dime you and rush content just to suck up as much cash as possible, rather than take the time and effort to actually polish off a game and really make it shine.

[joriandrake]

it is blatantly obvious it got rushed, and sadly the result can not be blamed just on EA

[Morroian]

2 years development time is not rushed. Zur may have been rushed for the score and indeed he only refers to the score as being rushed but that doesn't make the whole game a rush job.

[Euno17]

RohanD wrote...
The same way any company gets most of their money, from investors.

Here's how it usually goes down:

• people with talent and integrity get pissed off by being told what to do by bosses who care nothing about the quality of work, just the bottom line
• said people get so pissed off that they leave the company
• they then band together to form their own company
• they have a lot of talent and approach various investors staying "hey, we created game X and it is one of the most popular games of all time. We have the knowledge, drive and technical skills to reproduce a game that will sell millions. Please invest in our new company"
• Inevitably some smart investors see the potential in this new company and give them money
• The company uses this money to create an awesome game
• The company keeps doing this until it gets huge and gets bought again by a bug publisher like EA
• Lather, rinse, repeat. Always repeat

Thanks for giving me Gaming Companies 101.

Been years since I attended that class haha.

Anyway, in that case - I agree with you - I hope for it (a break off) to happen sooner - rather then later.

[Supersomething]

RohanD wrote...

Euno17 wrote...

RohanD wrote...

This is an interesting point. But who's to say the Mass Effect team won't start to view the DA team as a dead weight after this whole thing.

Game companies split over stuff like this, arguments over publishers, budgets, deadlines, targets, this is basically what the business is run on. 

Frankly, I will not be surprised if this is the end of Dragon Age for a while, especially if the sales are lower than DA:O. 

If that happens, I think it would be an opening for people from the DA team to leave, start up their own company (like Obsidian) and go back to making the games we love.

Now that I've said that, I kind of hope it happens, like tomorrow.

Where'd they get the money to start their own company? 

The fact is - Bioware did this to themsevles. Granted it was for a huge amount of money (860 mill) but they HAD to know what they were getting into when they attached themsevles to EA.

The same way any company gets most of their money, from investors.

Here's how it usually goes down:

• people with talent and integrity get pissed off by being told what to do by bosses who care nothing about the quality of work, just the bottom line
• said people get so pissed off that they leave the company
• they then band together to form their own company
• they have a lot of talent and approach various investors staying "hey, we created game X and it is one of the most popular games of all time. We have the knowledge, drive and technical skills to reproduce a game that will sell millions. Please invest in our new company"
• Inevitably some smart investors see the potential in this new company and give them money
• The company uses this money to create an awesome game
• The company keeps doing this until it gets huge and gets bought again by a bug publisher like EA
• Lather, rinse, repeat. Always repeat.

Infinite loops suck...

[Pandaman102]

That's exactly what I'm saying - that the development team was rushed.  It's just funny to me how IGN goes to incredible lengths to try and pretend that only the score was rushed, when clearly Inon was referring to the whole game.

Ack, sorry, thought you were defending the people who were claiming Zur's experience was not indicative of the rest of the team's situation.

[Schuback]

No wonder you could get the soundtrack for free this time if you preorder.

[RandalThor2232]

Glad i cancelled my preorder and paid only 40 instead of 60 for this game. Its not a bad game and i wouldnt be so disappointed if they named the game Dragon age: Freemarches or something like that instead of dragon age 2. They could have have had a new IP there but alas....just hope the dont screw up ME3, thats the only thing still keeping me here!

[RohanD]

Supersomething wrote...
Infinite loops suck...

yep, they are a surefire way to crash your program, that's why the example is so fitting. 

[RohanD]

Euno17 wrote...


Thanks for giving me Gaming Companies 101.

Been years since I attended that class haha.

Anyway, in that case - I agree with you - I hope for it (a break off) to happen sooner - rather then later.

Oh this doesn't apply to just gaming companies though, this applies to almost every company with a valuable IP. The Tech and Gaming industries are very lucrative at the moment so it happens a lot in their sectors. 

[TaHol]

Interesting to hear someone admitting it. When playing I was thinking they should have spent a year more with the game.

[casedawgz]

Goofy McCoy wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

You can beat Fallout 3 in under 2 hours, which negates at least a good third of the DA2 complaints, which are often about length.

I don't follow that logic, and I really don't think you should try to reason it out.

Putting aside any bias, DA2 is a linear game. It's designed that way, there isn't a way around that.
F3 is an open game, where in you can bypass immeasurable ammounts of content if you so choose, because player choice is one of the fundemental elements of the game.

I'd imagine F3 DEMOLISHES DA2 on the other end of that same spectrum, for someone who 100% every bit of either game. It's just not a strong position to argue from, mate.

People are complaining about Dragon Age 2's length and are only doing the main quest. My point was that if you're going to ignore all of the side quests, you can do anything quickly. DA2 is not a short game. I'm currently 30 hours into my playthrough and just finished act 2. DA2 is not a 12 hour game, and people who rush through the main quest in 12 hours and then go on rants about length are idiots. Seems like a pretty strong position to me.