1559 réponses à ce sujet

[vertibird1]

If only Bioware never sold out to EA

[Alastanir]

rolson00 wrote...
they are denying him his human rights everyone has the right to free speech:(

Every country has their own definition of free speech. So too does every website. We are focusing on one post he made -- what about the other two strikes against that user? As I understand it, there's a three strike policy before being suspended.

However, the fact still remains that he is banned from enjoying offline content. Chances are high that this will be remedied to avoid future issues of this nature.

Modifié par Alastanir, 11 mars 2011 - 06:18 .

[MOB_RULES_]

[inappropriate image removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 11 mars 2011 - 06:19 .

[CrimsonKumiho]

Alastanir wrote...

rolson00 wrote...
they are denying him his human rights everyone has the right to free speech:(

Every country has their own definition of free speech. So too does every website. We are focusing on one post he made -- what about the other two strikes against that user. As I understand it, there's a three strike policy before being suspended.

However, the fact still remains that he is banned from enjoying offline content. Chances are high that this will be remedied to avoid future issues of this nature.

That... and freedom of speech has limitations. Once it crosses the line into other rights, it's no longer a valid sheild. Namely porn and hate speech. Plus writing on a site is more permanent than speech itself and can be viewed by many so other rights are called into question.

[Dragoonlordz]

rolson00 wrote...

Fissure wrote...

http://social.biowar...index/6459941/1

Or
"talking crap" in a forum, or chatroom. Calling a company a devil, so
you make it so the guy can't play his own  game. Are you all crazy.
That;'s gonna look good, he insults you so you ground him from playing
the game. Get over yourself EA, some people think your a **** company,
CRAP LIKE THAT IS WHY

they are denying him his human rights everyone has the right to free speech:(

Well not exactly I mean in law if someone threatens to kill your entire family they can be arrested and detained. Thats just an example but there has to be a line drawn somehwere, whether you think that line is drawn there or further down the road.

This is just me but the guy who comes on puts endgame spoilers in the titles of threads like few days ago then logged of went back to playing his game having a giggle at his actions, after listing all possible endings which could not be avoided since was in title in a no spoilers section. Call me whatever you want but I wanted that guy banned from the forums and if knew about the fact could suspend his account if I had the power to do so I would of as would many of the people on this forum and the net itself if it had just spoiled the game they just paid for themselves.

My view being why should he enjoy a game laughing away at his own actions when he has just compleltey ruined for others, I would of suspended him but I admit I'm not as nice as Bioware who only block from forums which is not to be confused with EA's ability to suspend your online account which is what happened in this case.

The problem only lay in the fact they used a register to play in order to go against pirates and having a timed release so noone could play it before release day and the fact the guy never registered before ranting, led to him not being able to use the online aspect of the account to register and download such things as DLC on that account for period of 3 days.

[naomha]

 What he said is protected under Freedom of Speech. He used no vulgarity and did not break any terms under the EULA. They simply tried to make an example out of him because they were offended by what he said.  Someone was having a bad day with no coffee and got irritated. I'm sure all the bugs in DA2 have absolutely nothing to do with that either.  Too bad. A good lawyer would surely make them reopen their eyes and readjust their attitude. Still, 3 days for pissing off someone is a little harsh, especially when it blocks his game from starting. I could see if he couldn't post on the forums or something like that, but disabling his account entirely is just someone drawing satisfaction at not being able to do anything else.  He DID NOT break the terms of his EULA for the game, something Bioware and EA need to immediately recognize and fix. Too bad. Wish I was your lawyer buddy. 

[Eelzebub]

I don't think free speech is the real issue here. The issue is consumer rights. When you pay for a product you have a right to enjoy it and use it responsibly. Making a negative comment is not in anyway using a product irresponsibly.

Regardless of how innocuous or inflammatory his comment was, he, like the rest of us, should be allowed to play the game he paid for because he has paid for it. He has already given Bioware and EA his money and subsequently his loyalty and deserves to gain the benefit associated with that.

This frustrates me because companies should not be able to dictate how users spend their money or when users can enjoy the products they buy.
=/

Modifié par Eelzebub, 11 mars 2011 - 06:23 .

[CrimsonKumiho]

naomha wrote...

 What he said is protected under Freedom of Speech. He used no vulgarity and did not break any terms under the EULA. They simply tried to make an example out of him because they were offended by what he said.  Someone was having a bad day with no coffee and got irritated. I'm sure all the bugs in DA2 have absolutely nothing to do with that either.  Too bad. A good lawyer would surely make them reopen their eyes and readjust their attitude. Still, 3 days for pissing off someone is a little harsh, especially when it blocks his game from starting. I could see if he couldn't post on the forums or something like that, but disabling his account entirely is just someone drawing satisfaction at not being able to do anything else.  He DID NOT break the terms of his EULA for the game, something Bioware and EA need to immediately recognize and fix. Too bad. Wish I was your lawyer buddy. 

Checkpoint reached!

[Treebiter]

Hmmm... So reasons not to buy the game so far:

1. Demo was awful
2. Demo was really awful
3. Undisclosed DRM
4. EA's response to criticism is an electronic version of 'throwing it's toys out of a pram'
5. EA is the Devil?

Reasons to buy:

1. I've made some pretty savvy game purchases lately so this would be a form of correcting the cosmic balance.
2. EA are still better than Activision (Though this escapade has shortened the field)

Personally, I don't think the comment was offensive enough to condone even a forum ban. It seems pretty apparent that Bioware didn't make all the design decisions for DA2, so asking whether BW have sold their souls to the EA Devil seems a pretty succinct way of phrasing a question on the subject. EA can hardly think themselves well-loved and some of their previous business moves and decisions have been 'pretty' evil. As such, were a line to be drawn, they would definitely be closer to devils than angels when taking into account their business ethics up to this point.

But my question is, why are EA so upset by this new moniker? Traditionally, evil has always been the better dressed of our bipolar ethical constructs. Take De Niro in 'Devil's Advocate'. He looks pretty dapper through the whole thing and in the world of business, a well-cut suit can take you far. Less so flowing white robes and sandals. It may be a good look for a pagan druid or day-spa visitor but mark my words, you'll be laughed out of the boardroom regardless of the quality of your presentation. Also, the truly good, a Samaritan for instance, will never be very rich. Altruism and business do not make good bedfellows. EA's main concern is profit and I'm sure they won't argue the point. This selfish pursuit of wealth isn't exactly angelic and they won't easily pass through the gates of heaven if the old fable about the camel and the needle is to be believed. However, they'll be rich and that has its benefits too! Cars, big houses, lots of cake etc. They've made their ethical choices and I'm sure they can sleep soundly at night on their money-stuffed mattresses (this is a metaphor. a money-stuffed mattress would be awful)

EA should embrace it's new image with open arms. People like honesty and it does bring with it some interesting re-branding potential. I personally like: "Evil Arts - Because everyone loves a Bastard". This would also allow them a get-out clause when they do make such shocking business decisions. "I can't believe EA have done that" would soon become "I can completely believe EA have done that, they're evil incarnate... quick, hide your babies". The latter is much less sensational as it's in-character. An expected reaction is not news. So lets not gang-up on EA. Instead, lets all support them in coming out of the evil closet. C'mon EA, be loud and proud! Evil Pride!

[Getterray]

CrimsonKumiho wrote...

Alastanir wrote...

rolson00 wrote...
they are denying him his human rights everyone has the right to free speech:(

Every country has their own definition of free speech. So too does every website. We are focusing on one post he made -- what about the other two strikes against that user. As I understand it, there's a three strike policy before being suspended.

However, the fact still remains that he is banned from enjoying offline content. Chances are high that this will be remedied to avoid future issues of this nature.

That... and freedom of speech has limitations. Once it crosses the line into other rights, it's no longer a valid sheild. Namely porn and hate speech. Plus writing on a site is more permanent than speech itself and can be viewed by many so other rights are called into question.

1. Pornography does not cross into anyone elses rights, unless it involves children and that is a case of rape. Pornography is protected by free speech. Ever hear of Larry Flint? The man fought the courts for years and took a bullet to the spine to protect his rights. To think that people are still so ignorant and still so eager to provide their opinion as fact after all these years is disheartening. Please don't talk if you have no idea what you are talking about.

2. Saying Bioware sold their souls to EA is not hate speech. You trivialize the struggles people have gone through by comparing a snarky comment to hate speech. No one, and I mean the courts especially, would categorize that as hate speech.

And as long as we are talking about the law, taking away the rights to play the game  by burying a clause into the EULA is illegal. There are measures in place so that a company can't put something into the EULA that goes beyond what a normal person would expect. This is borderline criminal and could definately go to court if OP wanted to.

Modifié par Getterray, 11 mars 2011 - 06:26 .

[moilami]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

Fissure wrote...

http://social.biowar...index/6459941/1

Or
"talking crap" in a forum, or chatroom. Calling a company a devil, so
you make it so the guy can't play his own  game. Are you all crazy.
That;'s gonna look good, he insults you so you ground him from playing
the game. Get over yourself EA, some people think your a **** company,
CRAP LIKE THAT IS WHY

they are denying him his human rights everyone has the right to free speech:(

Well not exactly I mean in law if someone threatens to kill your entire family they can be arrested and detained. Thats just an example but there has to be a line drawn somehwere, whether you think that line is drawn there or further down the road.

This is just me but the guy who comes on puts endgame spoilers in the titles of threads like few days ago then logged of went back to playing his game having a giggle at his actions, after listing all possible endings which could not be avoided since was in title in a no spoilers section. Call me whatever you want but I wanted that guy banned from the forums and if knew about the fact could suspend his account if I had the power to do so I would of as would many of the people on this forum and the net itself if it had just spoiled the game they just paid for themselves.

My view being why should he enjoy a game laughing away at his own actions when he has just compleltey ruined for others, I would of suspended him but I admit I'm not as nice as Bioware who only block from forums which is not to be confused with EA's ability to suspend your online account which is what happened in this case.

The problem only lay in the fact they used a register to play in order to go against pirates and having a timed release so noone could play it before release day and the fact the guy never registered before ranting, led to him not being able to use the online aspect of the account to register and download such things as DLC on that account for period of 3 days.

Well, that's you.

I think there is nothing you could say what would make me want to restrict your rights to play a game you have bought. Unless I would be very childish, stupid, and evil 

[Alastanir]

naomha wrote...

I'm sure all the bugs in DA2 have absolutely nothing to do with that either.

I think it's safe to assume those are because of EA's marketing team pushing to have DA2 on store shelves. If it were up to BioWare designers and programmers, the release would have come at a later date.

These are just speculation, though, but based upon prior software related fiascos.

[asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf]

Boycott is the only answer I see here.

Yes, the demo was awful. EA thinks they can defraud their customers by failing to deliver goods purchased. Do you at EA think you can treat your customers like garbage? EA needs to be taught a lesson.

And yes, EA _is_ the devil.

[Alastanir]

Getterray wrote...

1. Pornography does not cross into anyone elses rights, unless it involves children and that is a case of rape. Pornography is protected by free speech. Ever hear of Larry Flint? The man fought the courts for years and took a bullet to the spine to protect his rights. To think that people are still so ignorant and still so eager to provide their opinion as fact after all these years is disheartening. Please don't talk if you have no idea what you are talking about.

The free speech argument is moot. U.S. law does not apply to all of the internet; those that think it does are delusional. BioWare and EA can censor what they wish on their servers. However, EA has no right to ban someone from enjoying an offline game based upon what they say online, especially if that game has been paid for in full.

Modifié par Alastanir, 11 mars 2011 - 06:34 .

[CrimsonKumiho]

Getterray wrote...

CrimsonKumiho wrote...

Alastanir wrote...

rolson00 wrote...
they are denying him his human rights everyone has the right to free speech:(

Every country has their own definition of free speech. So too does every website. We are focusing on one post he made -- what about the other two strikes against that user. As I understand it, there's a three strike policy before being suspended.

However, the fact still remains that he is banned from enjoying offline content. Chances are high that this will be remedied to avoid future issues of this nature.

That... and freedom of speech has limitations. Once it crosses the line into other rights, it's no longer a valid sheild. Namely porn and hate speech. Plus writing on a site is more permanent than speech itself and can be viewed by many so other rights are called into question.

1. Pornography does not cross into anyone elses rights, unless it involves children and that is a case of rape. Pornography is protected by free speech. Ever hear of Larry Flint? The man fought the courts for years and took a bullet to the spine to protect his rights. To think that people are still so ignorant and still so eager to provide their opinion as fact after all these years is disheartening. Please don't talk if you have no idea what you are talking about.

2. Saying Bioware sold their souls to EA is not hate speech. You trivialize the struggles people have gone through by comparing a snarky comment to hate speech. No one, and I mean the courts especially, would categorize that as hate speech.

And as long as we are talking about the law, taking away the rights to play the game  by burying a clause into the EULA is illegal. There are measures in place so that a company can't put something into the EULA that goes beyond what a normal person would expect. This is borderline criminal and could definately go to court if OP wanted to.

Calm down. I never once said anything he did crossed into hate speech. I was just giving a representation of an approximation of where the line is for crossing. Maybe you should read carefully before throwing out accusations and flaming someone for no reason. I in no way want this thread to get anymore off topic talking about freedom of speech because it has nothing to do with it. He didn't even deserve a forum ban for such a comment in my opinion.

[rolson00]

Treebiter wrote...


EA should embrace it's new image with open arms. People like honesty and it does bring with it some interesting re-branding potential. I personally like: "Evil Arts - Because everyone loves a Bastard". This would also allow them a get-out clause when they do make such shocking business decisions. "I can't believe EA have done that" would soon become "I can completely believe EA have done that, they're evil incarnate... quick, hide your babies". The latter is much less sensational as it's in-character. An expected reaction is not news. So lets not gang-up on EA. Instead, lets all support them in coming out of the evil closet. C'mon EA, be loud and proud! Evil Pride!

lmao

[JamesX]

Wow 40 pages. Didn't read the whole thing. I am sure others have already said this in the thread, but I want to repeat it just incase.

For all those who did not know. EULA is NEVER Binding. The Legal System of whatever country they are in ALWAYS superceed it. That is why even when EULA says "You cannot make copies of this software even for backup purposes." you always could in the United States. Because Consumer Laws in the United States makes it legal for you to do so. Using an extreme example, even if you sign an EULA in which you agreed to let them murder your family because you said a bad word, the EULA will never take effect because the legal system would override it.

So stop trying to talk about the EULA as if it has any legal relevance. This might put the thread in a more realistic direction.

[Getterray]

Alastanir wrote...

Getterray wrote...

1. Pornography does not cross into anyone elses rights, unless it involves children and that is a case of rape. Pornography is protected by free speech. Ever hear of Larry Flint? The man fought the courts for years and took a bullet to the spine to protect his rights. To think that people are still so ignorant and still so eager to provide their opinion as fact after all these years is disheartening. Please don't talk if you have no idea what you are talking about.

The free speech argument is moot. U.S. law does not apply to all of the internet; those that think it does are delusional. BioWare and EA can censor what they wish on their servers. They have no right, however, to ban someone from enjoying an offline game based upon what they say online, especially if that game has been paid for in full.

Oh I know. Its a consumer rights issue. I only talked about free speech in relation to pornography.

[Direshadow]

I can, however, limit someone's ability to enjoy a game if I first take them through an epic D&D setting, and then show them Dragon Age 2.

[Eelzebub]

Boycott? I'd rather just make the issue known to the public and wait for a response from EA and Bioware regarding the original decision and (fingers crossed) their reversal of it and a statement declaring they will no longer pursue such aggressive tactics against their own consumers.

c:

You may say that I'm a dreamer...

[Big Blue Car]

Ok I'm not reading through 40 pages of arguments, could somebody please explain to me precisely what BiowEA can do in terms of stopping playing the games I pay for? As someone who has preordered every Bioware game except DA2 for the last decade and still plays them regularly, but has also been banned a few times from the forums, this is very relevant to me. Sincere thanks in advance.

[Treebiter]

Eelzebub wrote...

Boycott? I'd rather just make the issue known to the public and wait for a response from EA and Bioware regarding the original decision and (fingers crossed) their reversal of it and a statement declaring they will no longer pursue such aggressive tactics against their own consumers.

c:

You may say that I'm a dreamer...

Like this from the C&C forums for instance?


Hey everyone,

If you didn’t notice, your C&C Community Manager, me, had a bit of a
run-in with the video game blogging media today in reference to a
direct quote I made on our forums here a few days ago in regards to how
we handle bans and suspensions on the forums and in-game. You all know
how we are greatly trying to protect and serve you from those who wish
to disrupt our C&C community by breaking ToS on our forums or
in-game, and I know everyone appreciates when we take action on those
that are the worst.

That said, the previous statement I made recently (that’s being quoted
on the blogs) was inaccurate and a mistake on my part. I had a
misunderstanding with regards to our new upcoming forums and website and
never meant to infer that if we ban or suspend you on the forums, you
would be banned in-game as well. This is not correct, my mistake, my
bad.

If we suspend or ban you from the forums, that does not affect your
in-game account and certainly it does not impact your in-game account
for other games. Quite often we usually warn you before taking any type
of action, suspend you before considering any type of ban, etc. I am
sure you guys know that we are fairly tolerant and stress that you
please show respect to others, but we also understand the forums are a
place to be heard and express your opinion in a constructive manner.
Everyone has their “flame” moments.

Your Posting in our official C&C EA Forums is enabled by an EA
Nucleus account (the Master EA Account you typically login with to chose
your Persona) — but access to the forums and access to the games are
separate. Players who have been banned from EA Forums are not
automatically banned from online access to their other EA games, or the
game associated with that particular forum. Players can be warned,
suspended, and/or then banned if they breach the Terms of Service or
Code of Conduct in a forum, game or service. Each forum, game and
service is managed independently by our customer support representatives
responsible for that specific forum, game or service.

Suffice to say, when we take action on someone on our C&C forums
here, for any number of ToS breaking reasons, it does not impact your
C&C game account or any other EA Game Account connected to your
forum name. The mods here do a great job of alerting me when we need to
warn someone or take further action, if I haven’t seen it myself or
heard it in a thread from one of you, but any action we take on a
C&C Forum User, doesn’t impact their in-game status.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, but I hope everyone is able to see
the greater good intent in that we are simply trying to keep the forums
and in-game as friendly and fun environments as possible, just know
that those two environments are treated [separately] by myself, the
mods, and especially our Customer Support team. =)

Sincerely,

APOC

Modifié par Treebiter, 11 mars 2011 - 06:44 .

[asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf]

Eelzebub wrote...

Boycott? I'd rather just make the issue known to the public and wait for a response from EA and Bioware regarding the original decision and (fingers crossed) their reversal of it and a statement declaring they will no longer pursue such aggressive tactics against their own consumers.
 

I think we're in agreement here.  It's what we'd all like to see.  Hopefully raising it to the public is all it will take. 

I'll also go the extra step and shop elsewhere because I think companies like EA and BioWare only understand one thing:  revenue

[Cyocide]

I can, however, limit someone's ability to enjoy a game if I first take them through an epic D&D setting, and then show them Dragon Age 2.

I bet your voice acting is stellar =P Especially during Romance scenes. *wiggles eyebrows* Count me in. Level 1 Rogue.

[randName]

CrimsonKumiho wrote...

Everyone still repeating themselves I see. Nothing gained for another 20 pages worth of posts? Excellent.

When is a +1 ever worthless, or at least of lesser worth than any other post, its not like we are saving the world here ~ ?

Also sometimes MOAR, is simply better than well spoken and succinct contributions to a cause.