To summarize the issue for those just joining in: A user posted something that someone found objectionable and reported to EA. According to the user, it was his question, "Have you sold your souls to the EA devil?" EA then suspended his account - not just his forum account, but the account that allows him to register and play his EA games - for 72 hours. This caused a mess of controversy as people debated whether it was okay for a company to restrict someone from using a product they've already bought and paid for based on a comment on their forums the company finds objectionable.
Chris Priestly has posted to say that the user is no longer banned and that a glitch is what caused him to not be able to access his games. I'm posting this anyway in response to the people who think that this means that the "whining" was all for no reason and the people who still think that EA would have been right to ban the guy from accessing his account and to respond to some of the issues that came up in the discussion.
An FAQ for this thread.
1: He just got a suspension from the forums, what's everyone whining about?A: He didn't just get suspended from the forums. He got a suspension that prevents him from registering and playing any games he's paid for that are associated with his EA account for posting a comment on an Internet forum. For reference,
here's the original topic that started this controversy.
2: But it's only for three days. What's the big deal?A: First of all, a company doesn't have the right to keep someone from using a product they've bought and paid for even temporarily. No, not even with a EULA. Second of all, if EA can temporarily suspend someone's account, preventing them from being able to play their games, then under the exact same parts of the Terms of Service that Stanley Woo used to justify this action, they can ban someone permanently and cut off access to all the games he's paid for that are associated with his EA account.
3: Who cares? Stop whining and get a life.A: If you care at all about your rights as a consumer, you should care. If you believe this is okay, then by extension you're saying that it's okay for a car company to disable someone's car based on comments they've made in the company's forums because when they signed up, they agreed to a poorly-worded agreement with hard-to-understand (for some) legal terms that, through laughably broad and imprecise language, gives the company the right to take away your car if you say something that someone else objects to.
4: He should have read the EULA/ToS.A: EULAs are on shaky legal ground because they are an
Unconscionable form of a
contract of adhesion (see also
shrink wrap contract). They have been challenged and declared unenforceable in
numerous cases. Furthermore, they cannot overrule rights such as basic legal rights and consumer right laws; as a demonstrative example, a EULA could contain terms stating that "Upon accepting this contract, the user becomes the property of Electronic Arts, Inc." Obviously, this would be a completely unenforceable clause, and any legal battle about it would end quickly and decisively in favor of the user.
Basically, EULAs are scare documents. If you've ever had a job with a larger company than a mom-and-pop store, you may have noticed that they required you to sign several forms when you applied for employment that said that you would not sue them. These are pretty much the same thing as a EULA. They don't actually prevent you from being able to legally sue them if they have legally wronged you in an egregious manner, but they prevent many people from suing them nonetheless because those people, having signed the document and lacking an understanding of their rights, believe that it has the legal power to stop them from suing.
Also, even if this were a legal practice, should we as customers simply lie back and accept it, letting companies walk all over us? Or should we fight back and show that we won't accept policies such as these that give companies free reign to steal our money without giving anything in return? Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, and the amount of complacent acceptance of these policies in this thread is downright disturbing.
Finally, I would question whether everyone who says this has actually read the EULA/ToS in full and understood it completely, in part because very few people do so, in part because some of them demonstrate a marked lack of understanding about the content (many seem to think that the EULA for DA2 is what this issue is about, when it is in fact the Terms of Service of EA Community membership), and in part because they both contain language that is intentionally obtuse and generally confusing to those without the legal background to understand it.
5: But wait, if EULAs are so illegal, why don't people sue companies that use them.A: They're not illegal, just not enforceable. And very few people have the time, money, and inclination to enter into a legal battle about what is usually such a minor issue, especially as 1.EULAs are usually not used in egregiously abusive ways (this case could be considered an exception, were it about a EULA rather than the ToS) and 2.entering into a legal battle against a large, multimillion-dollar corporation such as EA will be especially costly, as they can generally bog down the issue in legal red tape for months (and remember, most lawyers charge hundreds of dollars per hour - certainly any decent ones do). Basically, they can string out the case until the person attempting to sue them runs out of money to pay for their lawyer. The best way to get a big company to change an objectionable policy like this one is to do exactly what people have done - start threads about it to raise awareness and alert news sites in the hopes that bad publicity and the power of the all-mighty dollar will affect company policy. Also, 3.usually, the only people with grounds for such a lawsuit are those who are directly wronged by the policy. If the person who got banned wanted to sue, he would have legal grounds for doing so; if the rest of us wanted to sue because of what happened to him, we would not.
In short, to sue you'd have to be rich, have a great deal of free time on your hands that you were willing to devote to the issue instead of, say, playing games, and be one of the people who have been directly wronged by the EULA/ToS. Very few, if any, people fit these criteria, and those who do won't necessarily decide to sue.
6: But wait, his post was slander! If he tries to sue EA, they can countersue him for slander.A: Nope. Slander =/= insulting someone. This is a common mistake, like saying that someone engaged in an ad hominem attack because they insulted you in an argument. Slander requires the recipient's reputation to have been damaged and a loss of livelihood or other comparable negative effect to have resulted. What he said does not constitute slander even under the broadest legal interpretation of the term. If, on the other hand, he had been spreading lies about EA keeping him from playing a game he had paid for based on something he said on a forum, that would be slander because people would see this as an objectionable business practice and it would affect people's opinions of EA in a way that could affect sales. Sadly, this was not a lie.
7: What if he's lying about what he said to get banned? What if he was inciting racial hatred or something?A: Doesn't matter. EA has no right to keep him from using a product he's bought and paid for just because he expressed a view they find objectionable.
8: If this was a MMO, would anyone be complaining?A: First of all, if someone were banned in an MMO for saying something in an MMO forum (i.e. not in the game itself), then yes, people would be complaining because the content of the forum does not affect the content of the game. Second of all, if he says something objectionable in an MMO, there is grounds for suspending his account because his comments affect the gameplay of other players. This is not the case in a single-player RPG. To use an analogy, someone who cheats in a MMO can be banned for obvious reasons, but it would be absurd to take away someone's single-player game because he cheated in it.
In short, MMOs aren't single-player games, so stop trying to conflate the two.
9: Well, serves him right for being a jerk anyway.A: You may think so, but under the same rule that lets EA keep him from playing his games (Stanley Woo cited sections 9 and 11 of the EA Terms of Service), they can keep you from playing your games for calling him a jerk (relevant sections bolded):
9. Termination of EA Services, Accounts and Entitlements
EA may terminate access to any online or mobile products and/or EA Services at any time by giving you notice of such termination within the time period specified when you joined the particular EA Service, or if no time period for notice of termination was specified, then within thirty (30) days of the date such notice is posted on the applicable product or EA Service or on http://www.ea.com/2/service-updates.
EA may also terminate your Account(s) (and access to all related Entitlements) for violation of this Terms of Service, illegal or improper use of your Account, or illegal or improper use of EA Services, Content, Entitlement, products, or EA's Intellectual Property as determined by EA in its sole discretion. You may lose your user name and persona as a result of Account termination. If you have more than one (1) Account, EA may terminate all of your Accounts and all related Entitlements. In response to a violation of these Terms of Service or any other agreement applicable to EA Services accessed by you, EA may issue you a warning, suspend your Account, selectively remove, revoke or garnish Entitlements associated with your Account or immediately terminate any and all Accounts that you have established. You acknowledge that EA is not required to provide you notice before suspending or terminating your Account or selectively removing, revoking or garnishing Entitlements associated with your Account. If EA terminates your Account, you may not participate in an EA Service again without EA's express permission. EA reserves the right to refuse to keep Accounts for, and provide EA Services to, any individual. You may not allow individuals whose Accounts have been terminated by EA to use your Account.
If your Account, or a particular subscription for an EA Service associated with your Account, is terminated, suspended and/or if any Entitlements are selectively removed, revoked or garnished from your Account, no refund will be granted, no Entitlements will be credited to you or converted to cash or other forms of reimbursement, and you will have no further access to your Account or Entitlements associated with your Account or the particular EA Service. If you believe that any action has been taken against your Account in error, please contact Customer Support at support.ea.com.
11. Rules of Conduct
You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:
- Post, transmit, promote, or distribute Content that is illegal.
- Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.
- Transmit or facilitate distribution of Content that is harmful, abusive, hateful, racially, religiously or ethnically offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or inappropriate. Hate speech is not tolerated.
- Use abusive, offensive, or defamatory screen names and/or personas.
- Disrupt the flow of chat in chat rooms with vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text].
- Impersonate another person (including celebrities), indicate falsely that you are an EA employee or a representative of EA, or attempt to mislead users by indicating that you represent EA or any of EA's partners or affiliates.
- Attempt to get a password, account information, or other private information from anyone else on EA Services.
- Upload any software or Content that you do not own or have permission to freely distribute.
- Violate any additional Rules of Conduct applicable to a specific EA Service that you are using.
- Promote, encourage or take part in any illegal activity including hacking, cracking, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software.
- Upload files that contain a virus, worm, spyware, time bombs, corrupted data or other computer programs that may damage, interfere with or disrupt EA Services.
- Post messages for any purpose other than personal communication, including advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities.
- Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to EA staff.
- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.
- Modify or attempt to modify any part of the EA Service that EA does not specifically authorize you to modify.
- Post or communicate any person's real-world personal information using an EA Service.
- Attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers for an EA Service.
- Use and communicate exploits to gain unfair advantage in a game
- Attempt to use EA Software on or through any service that is not controlled or authorized by Electronic Arts. Any such use is at your own risk and may subject you to additional or different terms. EA takes no responsibility for your use of EA Software on or through any service that is not controlled by Electronic Arts.
- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide an EA Service for the enjoyment of all its users.
- Unless expressly authorized by EA, you may not sell, buy, trade or otherwise transfer your EA account or any personal access to EA Services, Content or Entitlements, including by use of auction websites.
- You may not conduct any activities that violate the laws of any jurisdiction including but not limited to copyright infringement, trademark infringement, defamation, invasion of privacy, identity theft, hacking, stalking, fraud and the distribution of counterfeit software.
Specific EA Services may also post additional rules that apply to your conduct on those services.
You must also obey all federal, state, and local laws, regulations and rules that apply to your activities when you use EA Services. EA reserves the right to terminate your Account and to prevent your use of any and all EA Services if your Account is used to engage in illegal activity or to violate this Terms of Service.
Unless otherwise specified and except for EA Services directed to children under the age of thirteen (13), there is no requirement or expectation that EA will monitor or record any online activity on EA Services, including communications. However, EA reserves the right to monitor and/or record any online activity on EA Services and you give EA your express consent to monitor and record your activities. EA reserves the right to remove any content from any EA Service at EA's sole discretion. EA has no liability for your or any third party's violation of this Agreement.
If you encounter another user who is violating any of the Rules of Conduct, please report this activity to EA using the "Help" or "Report Abuse" functions in the relevant EA Service.
Also notable is that these terms are so broad and nonspecific. How can you avoid ever saying anything to another player that is "unwanted"? Everyone arguing against me, you are saying things that I don't want. EA, BAN THEM! For that reason, any attempt to enforce anything that contradicts consumer rights laws based on these terms alone would be laughed out of court.
More importantly, just because you don't like someone's forum conduct doesn't justify forfeiting their
and your own rights as a consumer to see them punished. Don't let your own frustration with the recent spate of negativity on these forums blind you to the larger implications of this issue. To use an extreme example, if someone could be imprisoned and tortured for saying something objectionable on a forum, would you support this policy just because you didn't like what that person had said?
Finally, did you even read what he [claims to have] said? If his reporting is accurate, I've read at least thirty more offensive things in this thread alone.
10: So what, he can just make another account.For the number of people saying "He should have read the EULA" (by which I assume they mean the ToS), there sure seem to be a lot of people who take this position who haven't. See section 9 again:
If EA terminates your Account, you may not participate in an EA Service again without EA's express permission... If your Account, or a particular subscription for an EA Service associated with your Account, is terminated, suspended and/or if any Entitlements are selectively removed, revoked or garnished from your Account, no refund will be granted, no Entitlements will be credited to you or converted to cash or other forms of reimbursement, and you will have no further access to your Account or Entitlements associated with your Account or the particular EA Service.
11: He only purchased a digital copy; it's not like EA came to his house and stole the CD from him.No? Then I guess it's not stealing when you download a
digital copy of a game to your hard drive from a pirating site, either.
12: Nice join date.A: Shut up, Dragoonlordz.
Modifié par unlimited_sake, 11 mars 2011 - 10:31 .
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