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You cannot in good faith limit a persons ability to play a game because of a forum post.


1559 réponses à ce sujet

#1476
Jacks-Up

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Melness wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Melness wrote...

Again, it is human errors that causes glitches. It may as well as be both an employee making a mistake and the system being glitched by it.


Now your really splitting hairs.

If it was a human error then why go to the length of posting in in technical terms? Unless, as from this post I quoted from you, you are referring to a human creating the actual technical glitch in the system, again why not outright say that instead of going into technicallities?



All I know is that neither of us know anything more than what was said. Which means that you can't in good faith accuse someone of lying.


Um no anyone with an ounce of common sense or without a papper bag over their head can figure out what went on.

1. Guy pops up after being banned, and complains he lost access to a game, after a “moan” on their forums

2. Bioware staff justifies the ban, talk down to anyone who disagrees and actively locks threads discussing the subject.

3. Story continues to build up to a huge ****storm of PR failure

4. apology: OH, er, sorry guys, it was a system error! Those crazy computers and their glitches.

5.  Oh wait did I say computers I meant moderators!  Humans can glitch….really they can…. They can if you believe they can….

In other words get your head out of the sand....<_<

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 12 mars 2011 - 03:46 .


#1477
comador

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Jacks-Up wrote...

Melness wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Melness wrote...

Again, it is human errors that causes glitches. It may as well as be both an employee making a mistake and the system being glitched by it.


Now your really splitting hairs.

If it was a human error then why go to the length of posting in in technical terms? Unless, as from this post I quoted from you, you are referring to a human creating the actual technical glitch in the system, again why not outright say that instead of going into technicallities?



All I know is that neither of us know anything more than what was said. Which means that you can't in good faith accuse someone of lying.


Um no anyone with an ounce of common sense or without a papper bag over their head can figure out what went on.

1. Guy pops up after being banned, and complains he lost access to a
game, after a “moan” on their forums

2. Bioware staff justifies the ban, talk down to anyone who disagrees and actively locks threads discussing the subject.

3. Story continues to build up to a huge ****storm of PR failure

4. apology: OH, er, sorry guys, it was a system error! Those crazy computers and their glitches.

5.  Oh wait did I say computers I meant moderators!  Humans can glitch….really they can…. They can if you believe they can….

In other words get your head out of the sand....<_<


+1 to that.

Add the whole SecuROM ordeal to the mix of drama and it is rather clear that the one wearing the paper bag is the EA money machine.

You can always just steal games and not have to put up with any of this obviously, but that doesn't make the games or the situation any better in the long run.

Fight with your wallet, that is all they understand.

#1478
FISSURE1

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Well that wasn't nice Bioware, banning me from the forum part of the community thing. Not even a message saying why i was banned, or that i was banned, no email, nothing :(

just "You do not have permission to view this page. You have been banned from this section. " when i click on the forum, oh well. At least the guy can register his game now.

#1479
Jacks-Up

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Anathemic wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

 Unfortunately, there was an error in the system that
accidentally suspended a user's entire account. Immediately upon
learning of the glitch, EA restored the user's macro account and
apologized for the inconvenience.


Fernando Melo wrote...

What happened in this case (the error in the sytem) was human error. 


So....

I told you I called BS, why the lies Chris?


Chris Priestly IMO is like the George Bush of Bioware; his lies are obvious and should be taken with a grain of salt.  I also get the same expression from reading anything Chris has to say and watching George Bush say anything<_<

I would go into more detail why but I'm afraid they will ban me from activating any more ME 2 DLC or ME 3 when I buy it because unlike DAO and DA 2 ME 2 is a game I really like.

#1480
snfonseka

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Stanley Woo wrote...
...
1. BioWare community bans are forum-only and can be for as little as 24 hours. These bans should have no effect on your game, only your ability to use all the features of this website/community. these bans are handed out by BioWare Moderators as the result of our travels around the forum and/or issues reported by fellow community members.
2. EA Community bans come down from a different department and are the result of someone hitting the REPORT POST button. These bans can affect access to your game and/or DLC.
Because the BioWare community now operates under the same umbrella as all EA Communities, community members here have all explicitly agreed to abide by and be governed by both sets of rules. Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow.
...


Chris Priestly wrote...

Here is my official response. You will likely see this picked up on news sites soon enough.

EA strictly enforces the code of conduct at Social.BioWare.com. If a player violates the rules by using profanity, they will be temporarily banned. Unfortunately, there was an error in the system that accidentally suspended a user's entire account. Immediately upon learning of the glitch, EA restored the user's macro account and apologized for the inconvenience.




:devil:


Clearly there is a mismatch between those two statements. Anyway the important thing is BW has identified it as a mistake, fixed it and apologized for the inconvenience.

#1481
Naitaka

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snfonseka wrote...

Clearly there is a mismatch between those two statements. Anyway the important thing is BW has identified it as a mistake, fixed it and apologized for the inconvenience.


That is good to hear, now let's hope they FIXED the forum rule soon. Bioware thanks for stopping me from boycotting your games.

#1482
Ostagar2011

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snfonseka wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
...
1. BioWare community bans are forum-only and can be for as little as 24 hours. These bans should have no effect on your game, only your ability to use all the features of this website/community. these bans are handed out by BioWare Moderators as the result of our travels around the forum and/or issues reported by fellow community members.
2. EA Community bans come down from a different department and are the result of someone hitting the REPORT POST button. These bans can affect access to your game and/or DLC.
Because the BioWare community now operates under the same umbrella as all EA Communities, community members here have all explicitly agreed to abide by and be governed by both sets of rules. Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow.
...


Chris Priestly wrote...

Here is my official response. You will likely see this picked up on news sites soon enough.

EA strictly enforces the code of conduct at Social.BioWare.com. If a player violates the rules by using profanity, they will be temporarily banned. Unfortunately, there was an error in the system that accidentally suspended a user's entire account. Immediately upon learning of the glitch, EA restored the user's macro account and apologized for the inconvenience.




:devil:


Clearly there is a mismatch between those two statements. Anyway the important thing is BW has identified it as a mistake, fixed it and apologized for the inconvenience.


But was this a one-off fix because of the PR disaster it was becoming, or a system fix? To my mind, this is only 'fixed' when they say that preventing someone from playing a lawfully purchased product on the basis of a forum opinion, can now never happen again. (EULA change, new guidelines to mods, separate forum bans from licence bans in the software). I'm not interested in a one-time 'we made an exception with this dude because even google was auto-completing searches for this case' (but the rest of you who don't like DA2 - be warned, we can still do this to you).

#1483
Timtation

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I'm a bit bewildered.

In the picture that has been spammed everywhere, a mod pretty much said they had the right to suspend your rights to the game for forum abuse.

Now they're saying it was an accident? That's not an accident. If the person misspoke, that'd be another story, but Bioware is now saying that all of this was an "accident" when they already admitted to doing it, and there's actual pictures of them doing it?

Someone help me understand? This isn't to continue to rile people up, I'm genuinely concerned now.

#1484
Azure Sky

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Ok, I just became aware of this issue from Slashdot (http://games.slashdo...Over-Forum-Post) and I see that it's not only true but the moderators here are acting very high-handed and unsympathetic.

I was holding off getting DA2 because I got burned on a day1 purchase of DA: Origins Ultimate (content missing from disc—this was never fixed). And I've been really worried about EA practices over the last couple of years.

Well, just to let you guys at EA and Bioware know, I will no longer buy EA games at all. That's it. I'm done with you. And it's this particular issue that is the last straw. Until I see substantial reform in EA's and Bioware's attitude and policies towards their Customers and Patrons, and an end to the DRM and activation horrors you plague them with, I want nothing to do with you or your games.

I trust you won't remove my access to my already bought and paid for games because of this honest feedback. (Or I swear to God I'll see you in court).

Modifié par Azure Sky, 12 mars 2011 - 07:30 .


#1485
Godeshus

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So many screams of boycott. Just like at launch of ME. And at DAO. And at ME2. Pretty much every new release there's outcries of boycott, yet we all line up with our wallets as soon as pre-orders are available.

So no one's going to boycott anyone. You're all junkies just admit it. That being said, Bioware and EA are businesses. Businesses will go to extremes to protect their investments and maximize profit.

The consumer's job is to keep these businesses on the straight and narrow. When they **** up the way they did with this event the best thing to do is exactly how it played out. Make a PR issue out of it. Internet is global so make a global issue out of it, just like what happened. Techies can use google to bump the search results. It's not all that hard.

It doesn't matter if their stories don't match. I doubt they even expect you to believe them. Point is this is fixed cuz people ****ed. That's the bottom line.

About the Eula: They don't ask you to accept before you purchase the game. They ask you to accept before installing it.

So can the EULA be used against you in court? Does it have ANY standing whatsoever if the business you are purchasing from requires your money before you can see the terms and services for that purchse? I don't think so.

#1486
Timtation

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They're basically saying it was a malfunction even though it's obvious to even the most rabid of Bioware fans that this is not the case. I'm offended they just didn't confess, say they would stop the practice, and that's that.

"Not our fault, just a big mistake, oopsy"

#1487
Azure Sky

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Godeshus wrote...
*snip*
So no one's going to boycott anyone. *snip*


I know, I remember the Call of Duty fiasco and so on, and I know to others I'm just another internet stranger... but I really mean it. And I'm starting immediately by skipping DA2 (helps that the reviews are mixed). I just can't stand the thought of being abused to the extent of having access to games I've bought revoked, for any reason, let alone such a pathetic one. It's why I've never used steam. No, there's no reason to believe me, but this is a long-drawn out decision for me, and I've finally made it.

Oh, and not buying day 1 already starts paying off! Wait and see is the way to go.

Modifié par Azure Sky, 12 mars 2011 - 07:51 .


#1488
Killyox the Defender

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the BW guy admitted they can block games for people who receikve ban. So whoever after said it was malfunction spoke bu*ll****

#1489
Romeriez Galenar

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Stanley Woo.. lol.. what a comedian..

#1490
Killyox the Defender

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Fernando Melo wrote...

Let me try to summarize and clarify a few things...

With any game or service, you typically need to agree to abide by the rules governing its use. 

For those of you that have been on these forums for any length of time you probably already know how this works. 

We don't ban people for swearing or criticizing us or EA. 

We often opt to remove the more colorful language (and replace with a 'removed' notice) in order to keep the post alive, rather than deleting a post or the thread.  And as a friendly reminder to the poster of expected conduct.

If someone is persistent in an infraction, we will warn them via private message.  Often, this is done several times and may include talking with that person to clearly identify what they need to change in their behavior to others.

Where necessary, when continuing to break the rules, we will temporarily ban the person from this community site.  This has no impact on any other EA site, nor the game, or otherwise limit the account in any way.

Once the ban passes, if they continue to break the rules we will temporarily ban them for a longer period of time.

If this problem continues, then we will escalate and request to permanently ban them from the site.

In rare cases, we may escalate further - at this point it would impact the account more substantially, including preventing the ability to access a game's online features.  It should not prevent a player from playing their game offline. 

It is possible to further escalate this to the extent that it will affect all EA games/sites or disabling the account outright - but that is an extreme measure.

It is also possible to fast track through some of those levels mentioned above.  We entrust our moderators and employees to use common sense in these cases - and this is typically done for rare situations where clearly the individual is out to abuse the system, impact other players, or for things like getting rid of spambots.

So normally, in order for someone to get to the level of impact we are talking about on their account, they REALLY need to be working purposefully, and systematically at it. 


What happened in this case (the error in the sytem) was human error. 


We apologized to the player, and have fully reinstated the account once we were able to complete the investigation into it and realized what happened.  And we are currently going over this incident very seriously internally to improve the process moving forward, including better training on this system.


To be clear - this was not an issue with any of our volunteer moderators here on the site (the folks with the moderator tags). 

I do want to call that out specifically, as it would be hugely unfair to them, if any of you - our community members - felt any doubts about this group of highly dedicated individuals on this site based on this incident.  And to take the opportunity for me to re-iterate our trust in these individuals. 

Many of them have been with us a long time and have consistently shown that they embody the same core values, care and passion we do, in wanting to create a great community that welcomes any opinions - even when those are critical of what we do.

Lastly, the rules of this site have not changed with this incident.  Every EA community may have its own quirks or house rules which we may not necessarilly follow or know about - but what is above is what you should essentially expect on our site.  It is in-line with the general conduct rules you signed up to as part of creating your account, and part of our commitment to you.

F.


Sorry but this is big wall of BS.

Even if he kept calling your moms for all day long 7 days a week 24/7 you still have no right to deny him what he paid for. Thats why forum bans exist. And if you have ridiculously stupid system that if the game is connected with account then game is suspended then... who cares? Its' your problem not ours. **** hit the fan like they say.

I am content many ppl deserve perma bans on forums due to their behavior but at the same time im against breaking fundamental rights of someone. You cant just take his money and say "sorry we dont like you and we block your game". Is this some totalitarian company or what?

EA should be denied the right to make games then because they put SecuROM in DA2 yet it was supposed to be free of it. Hopefully EA gets some court punishment like 500mln $ so they stop screwing all over their customers. I really hope so.


PS

Dont give us the crap about "error in the system" because by now everyone knows it's your way to save some little face left you have after **** hit the fan. So yeah, "**** hit the fan guys lets make an excuse"

Was SecuROM also "error in the system" ? Hope that error costs EA lots of money...again.

Modifié par Killyox the Defender, 12 mars 2011 - 08:02 .


#1491
v_ware

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Azure Sky wrote...
Well, just to let you guys at EA and Bioware know, I will no longer buy EA games at all. That's it. I'm done with you. And it's this particular issue that is the last straw.

I understand why you say that, many people were on the fence about buying DA2, but my case and the hidden Securom thing has caused a lot to tip over. The last days I have seen a lot of messages about dissapointed people when it came to this news. Shows EA/Bioware they should appreciate their consumers, not bother them with draconian DRM and other stuff like this. A game-company being abble to suspend your acces to a single-player game is wrong.

Arno
x

Modifié par v_ware, 12 mars 2011 - 08:08 .


#1492
Azure Sky

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Killyox the Defender wrote...

EA should be denied the right to make games then because they put SecuROM in DA2 yet it was supposed to be free of it. Hopefully EA gets some court punishment like 500mln $ so they stop screwing all over their customers. I really hope so.


PS

Dont give us the crap about "error in the system" because by now everyone knows it's your way to save some little face left you have after **** hit the fan. So yeah, "**** hit the fan guys lets make an excuse"

Was SecuROM also "error in the system" ? Hope that error costs EA lots of money...again.


Holy crap, is that true?? SecuROM is on DA2?? Wow. Well, I woudn't have bought it anyway then! I still haven't played Mass Effect because of that whole disaster. Yeah, I thought revocation of activation was the last straw, but STILL using SecuROM and hiding it too? You guys just set fire to all the straw to make doubly sure, right?

I'm just catching up.... how can they claim they don't delete posts easily when they apparently recently removed an entire huge thread on this very issue?

edit: Aww, man, it's all true:
http://arstechnica.c...s-ea-claims.ars

Modifié par Azure Sky, 12 mars 2011 - 08:30 .


#1493
Romeriez Galenar

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I think the next thing that Fernando will post is "The huge missing thread that everyone is talking about/looking for, was removed by a glitch initiated by Stanley Woo after he tripped over our pile of securom adding discs that Chris left carelessly lying about"

#1494
Ostagar2011

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Azure Sky wrote...

I'm just catching up.... how can they claim they don't delete posts easily when they apparently recently removed an entire huge thread on this very issue?


They talked to some former employees of the Ministry of Information of the Soviet Union to get some hints on how to limit free speech and keep things in line with the Party message.

Bioware Locks Critical Posts, Alleges Spam - Gamers Nexus - GN


This game needs some serious protection from critical opinion, so censorship was the only logical course of action.

#1495
Fernando Melo

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Ostagar2011 wrote...

But was this a one-off fix because of the PR disaster it was becoming, or a system fix? To my mind, this is only 'fixed' when they say that preventing someone from playing a lawfully purchased product on the basis of a forum opinion, can now never happen again. (EULA change, new guidelines to mods, separate forum bans from licence bans in the software). I'm not interested in a one-time 'we made an exception with this dude because even google was auto-completing searches for this case' (but the rest of you who don't like DA2 - be warned, we can still do this to you).


I agree, and I'll cover what I can below.

For some of the other posters - believe what you will.

This was a genuine mistake made by an individual.  And clearly there was a failing in the system that actually allowed them to escalate this directly to a full lockdown of the account contrary to how it should flow. 

This was never an issue that warranted an account level ban (which, I have to call out is incredibly rare in any case), but normally this would never go beyond a temp ban of the forums with zero impact to games.  Trying to portray this as a purposeful or vengeful act 'just because' is immature, not to mention inconsistent with how we actually operate if you care to observe. 

As I mentioned before this is a serious issue that we need to fix - as in properly fix, as you suggest.  It is not acceptable that something like this happens accidentally, even once.

The purpose of this system is not to feed our egos and dangle axes over player's heads in some sort of power trip  - it is there specifically to protect players.  To maintain some structure and order to our communities so they don't degenerate into what many other forums look like, and allow you to have a place where you can have a reasonable discussion, or ask a game related question without a some kind of explicit picture being thrust in your face, and yes - in very extreme cases to distance persistent, deliberately malicious individuals from other players IF necessary as a last resort (or at least until they realize it, cool off and get their act together).

Still, that person is supposed to be able to continue to play offline.  The goal is to close off the online features where this extreme measure is needed (again, this should be extremely rare).  But what we realized with this incident is that while you can completely keep playing offline with an existing game, you can't register a new game since when you login to register the account comes back as invalid.  This is new for us, and not intended.

Anyways, long story short (as its late here) - before we rush in with our torches and pitchforks, we need to properly figure out what happened.  That will take some time to sort out.

In the meantime, what I've already heard is that the EADM team is going to start working on a fix for game clients to ensure that players will at least be able to register and play offline, even in these rare extreme scenarios.  That won't be an overnight fix, but it's a start. 

Again, believe what you will.
F.

#1496
Valamyr

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Im never again registering a EA product no matter what DLC crap they try to bait me with. Bioware dropped the ball big time by allowing a forum ban to affect someones ability to play a game they paid for.

Totally unacceptable, period.

#1497
Fernando Melo

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Let's keep the discussion focused.

If you'd like to discuss whether we included Securom (which by the way, it still not true) - you can go discuss that here:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6194280/29#6490247

#1498
HolyMoogle

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Fernando Melo wrote...

The purpose of this system is not to feed our egos and dangle axes over player's heads in some sort of power trip  - it is there specifically to protect players.  To maintain some structure and order to our communities so they don't degenerate into...


Not to derail your reply, but that sounds exactly like the rationalization of a certain Circle I know of :wizard:

#1499
philbo1965uk

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Ironically of course....just like to point out

YOU ALL SIGNED UP TO THE EXACT SAME THING WITH STEAM

#1500
Nathander Von Eric

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And I can play every single game I bought from Steam offline.

......er..............now that I think about it. I have all of the DA:O DLC. Do I need to be online and signed into my EA account to access it?

And what happens if an EA account gets suspended. Can a person still access their DLC if banned?

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 12 mars 2011 - 09:12 .