54 réponses à ce sujet

[chzrm3]

Anyway, your comments are full of bravado but not much substance.

Yeah, this is the frustrating part. People keep insisting that hard is too easy, and nightmare's the only way to go, but they won't elaborate and explain what they're doing that makes it so easy.

It leads me to believe that something's just wrong with my party, which kind of stinks. : (

[Kemmer]

Hard is my favorite, but Nightmare is just several magnitudes higher. The gulf between Hard and Nightmare is like 10x the difference between Normal and Hard, imho. Nightmare definitely lives up to the name this time around. Ouch.

[Levlin]

I am finding the game on Hard not overly easy but just ok. Some area's I have a challenge but for the most part I have had no real issues. Now I am only about 12 hours into the game but I am thinking for my second play through I may have to push it to nightmare just for a more constant challenge. I will see come the end of it all. However as of now I think Hard is a little to easy.

[murgotroid]

chzrm3 wrote...

Anyway, your comments are full of bravado but not much substance.

Yeah, this is the frustrating part. People keep insisting that hard is too easy, and nightmare's the only way to go, but they won't elaborate and explain what they're doing that makes it so easy.

It leads me to believe that something's just wrong with my party, which kind of stinks. : (

I'd be willing to believe that I just wasn't doing something right if it weren't for comments like this:

you can pretty much let your companion ai play alone and you can hack and slash with your char

That's just not true, not at all.  And I don't think the OP is lying or even showing off, I think there's something that varies wildly from game to game.  At this point, I'm suspicious that equipment drops aren't properly distributed.  But maybe it is character builds.  I don't know, I haven't put all my points into dexterity as a warrior or anything.

Once I got the Armor of the Fallen for Hawke and an actual sword (I hadn't seen one since the intro levels), things got a lot more manageable.

Modifié par murgotroid, 11 mars 2011 - 08:09 .

[Lord Shitzu]

Yeah the people whipping it out about how pathetically easy Hard is need to chill out. We get it, you're awesome, some of us are not as awesome and are having problems on Hard even though Normal is far too easy.

You may be having similar problems to me, StingingVelvet, I played Hard from the beginning, but switched to Normal when I faced some fights I simply could not survive in the middle of Act 1 (usually involving second and third waves of assassins or mages).

However, I realized that part of my problem was probably that I had no idea how to build my characters starting out, so I respec'd my main (Female Rogue) and some other characters keeping in mind what I had learned, and I am now back to Hard and it feels just right again, challenging but not frustrating.

A few key points that saved me that I'd like to share:
-Make sure you get the upgraded 16m Taunt on Avelline ASAP, and manage it well in a fight and between waves, I was running with the smaller radius version for much too long, and it made it too easy to new waves to kill my Hawke or the rest of my team (I run with Avelline, Varric, and Anders). Read up on how Taunt works in this game, it wipes the threat for all enemies in range and then gives your tank maximum threat with them.

-Be careful about using stun abilities like Miasmic Flask. Stuns wipe threat completely.

-Make sure you have upgraded Heroic Aura, IMO it's the single most useful thing you can have on your party, the extra defense helps just as much as the attack, and you can worry less about attack on your gear and in your attributes and still have >85% basic hit chance on all characters.

-You want either the sustainable that increases threat+damage for Avelline when surrounded, or the one that transfers threat from allies. I use the one that increases threat and activate it whenever she gets a bunch of people on her, if she is taking a lot of damage, I also active the upgraded Shield Wall sustainable, and I have Turn the Blade on at all times. She ends up with very little stamina, but that's usually okay, since I turn these on partway through the fight, after she has used a bunch of it up anyway.

-Perhaps most importantly, make sure your characters have a good way to burn down an opponent quickly, initially I had spec'd some characters with too many points spread out (my Hawke especially) and they just couldn't kill mages or assassins quickly enough. Now I have a heavy investment in the Assassin tree which not only gives the incredibly effective Assassinate ability, but also Mark of Death which I put on a target I need dead fast and then hit that target with Anders (who has upgraded Crushing Prison, which is great) and Varric's special abilities.

That's just some stuff off the top of my head, if I think of more I will post.

[Stetzer13]

I have yet to finish Act 1. I've played on hard with both a mage and rogue. I would say 90% of the fights were a manageable breeze. The other 10% were so ridiculously unforgiving (Bone pit dragon, Dragon in Deep Roads, Big Golem thing in Deep Roads, and the Ancient Rock Wraith). My party seems absolutely unable to handle the big boss-like enemies. It usually boils down to everyone except Hawke dying, and I end up kiting the boss around for 30 minutes chipping away until it is dead. It is extremely unsatisfying.

[Wintermist]

I definately agree Hard is the best difficulty to play in. My first game I did on normal as a mage Spirit Healer and after that it was easy-mode. So easy in fact that it wasn't fun anymore.

[Lord Shitzu]

A few more thoughts to add to my suggestions above:-Make use of poisons, debilitating poison on my rogue definitely helps keep people alive when there are assassins and nasty melee bosses around.

Tactics
Develop some good Tactics for your companion, while I like to micromanage my party, the combat is fast paced enough that well implemented tactics can help out quite a bit while you are repositioning people and such. One thing I consider crucial is a good chain of [condition]-->Attack tactics, to focus fire and keep melee character from constantly disengaging and running across the room.

I don't really put in tactics for hard hitting single target or aoe abilities with cooldowns (like Crushing Prison, for instance) because invariably it leads to my companions burning those abilities, instead I manage them myself.

For my rogue I make her last two tactics in the chain be:
[Enemy: Nearest] --> Attack
[Enemy: Target of Avelline] --> Attack

This way she does not run across the room and disengage when I tell her to attack a specific target, and if she does switch targets it's to the tank's target.

I have Varric set with several Attack tactics so that he prioritizes Critter type enemies to kill them fast, as well as ranged and magic users, and his last tactic is also to attack Avelline's target.

Since Anders is my support mage, I have his final tactic simply be to attack Varric's target, thereby focusing my ranged fire.

Avelline's attack tactics are to attack Elite enemy mobs, followed by attack the nearest mob, which again lets her prioritize and attack nearby enemies instead of running across the room. You may be tempted to make tactics like: [Enemy: Attacking Anders] --> Pommel Strike or Attack but I do not recommend it, as it will just make her run around all the time instead of holding aggro, you're better of micromanaging such things.

Avelline also has a tactic chain to intelligently turn Bravery on when surrounded by at least 3 mobs, and turn it off if there are less than 2 mobs around her:
...
5. [Surrounded by at least 2 enemies] --> Jump to 7
6. Deactivate Bravery
7. [Surrounded by at least 3 enemies] --> Activate bravery
...

You could also put other sustainables into this chain, such as Shield Defense.

Modifié par Lord Shitzu, 12 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[frano1]

ok guys..sorry if i sounded a lil bit arogant or smth...i will now try to explain why hard is rly easy...first of all..on hard you should have healer and tank and 1 cc master and 1 dps(usefull if he also have some cc)....cc is crowd control...first of all i see alot of ppl who are using aveline as a tank as do i..and you are taking bravery bravado and stuff..thats a mistake...use battlemaster tree with rally and folow up talents..much better and more powerfull...second thing you MUST have cc master..rogue is great for that roll...i used varric but now i use isabela..same thing..only i like to look at her and want to make babyes with her so i play with her:D..sabotage tree with miasmic flask and chaos flask and fatiguing fog are great way to cc enemies...i play 2h warior with vanguard/battlemaster combination and templar specialization..but still didnt put points in templar tree..(reaver is better for dmg output but i dont like to paly with my hp 2 much:D)i have some other things that need taking first..(i am lv 10 atm)finsihed all side and companion quest and going to deep roads..and ofc on hard dif you must have mage healer...anders ofc..with panacea and normal hal stuff from creation and ofc you msut take heroic aura and haste..thats a huge buff..as his second tree arcane is pretty good couse of mind blast which will remove threat from him and stun enemies and also there is a nice shield for all party members later on and 1 good offenisive spell in that tree...prison ofc...so his rolle is to support and make party stronger and heal..he isnt here to do huge explosions and such things...on normal you can paly the game with 4 mages..you dont need any thinking or nothing..so its really better to play on hard aand think a little:)..that was about compostion..now when speaking of gameplay...if you do good tactics on your companions it will probably be good enough for most of fights on hard except some main fights..but i like to pause and play with micromanaging anyway so if fight is serious i alway tell them what to do...in gamae so far there was only 1 fight where i wiped a few times but that was becouse i tryed playing with isabela wit no cc..just dps talents...it was the fight where you have to listen in to ship captains and then they all attack like 100000000000 enemies:D...and ship captains are ofc assasins who are backstabing like crazy..after i respeced isabela with miasmic flask chaos flask and fog thingy it was fairly easy...and i see ppl are having problems with bone pit dragon but he is easy..just tank spank tbh...aveline tanked him..and then i didnt have anders yet so my sister healed her and me and varic was jsut nuking dragon down..it was np... damn this is long post..but i saw some1 asked to tell what to do to make it easy..so i did..all you need to do is you have to balance aprty and make everyone good at job they are doing...you cant play without tank or healer as you can on normal..but thats price to pay to feel satisfaction after you beat some mean encounter:)

and have in mind i have black emporium so i can respec and also lion shield is still the best for aveline and hayder razor is better than all weeapons for 2h yet and staff of parlathan so maeby couse of those things adn respec its easyer..but if you balance party you will have np with or without those things...(and dog is helpfull)

i apologize for any typos or mistakes...i am from croatia so english isn't my mother tongue---aldo i think its fairly good:)..

enjoy:)

[frano1]

****..that's loooong...no1 si gonna read it anyway:P

[StingingVelvet]

I think one of the main reasons hard is a little too hard for me is that I refuse to use tactics, I play every character myself. I've read all the suggestions on here though and some of it is an improvement over how I do things, so I will try it out.

I do think on a second playthrough I will manage the ability trees better. Despite respecing my Hawke I still feel too spread out.

In any case the main point of the thread is that I want a difficulty setting where I have to use pause and plan and tactical strategy but not be wiped out for not having the perfect party or abilities. DA:O on normal was pretty much that, but DA2 on normal is a cake-walk meant for people who never pause.

[frano1]

ye i also play mostly every char myself and thats the good way..i mean i made tactics but i like to keep control...i dont touch ither char only on some really easy fights...well on hard you dont have to have perfect party adn abilities but they need to be almost perfect:D..and maeby there should be 1 more diff between normal and hard or normal should be made harder i agree...but we have what we have now and playing on normal is just 2 easy its like insulting me so i think better to wipe a few times than ruin the game...

[frano1]

and to conclude imo hard is the besst way to play..nightmare is probably a little to iritating:D...with assasins stealing your potions and 1shoting all:D

[kullendorff]

frano1 wrote ....you cant play without tank or healer as you can on normal.. ..

You are totally mistaken in my book. I play on Nightmare with more or less 4 DPS chars with Anders switching to some limited healing when needed and I have come to think that CC and all that fancy stuff is way overrated, my biggest problem atm is that the game gets to easy like this. So I will just play thru the game fast with this setup on NM and try something different next time.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Honestly, I found normal fine... but a lot of the enemies took a bit long to kill. Easy, on the other hand, is a bit too Dynasty Warriors, at least insofar as I've bothered to play it. Not sure about Hard, but I'm not that dedicated about actually mastering things, so I may not bother with it for a while.

The Deep Roads act didn't get vaguely challenging until the actual Deep Roads, but the other two acts kept me on my toes. There were some challenging fights toward the end. Refreshing, really--a lot of RPGs I've played tend to get *easier* as they go simply because I'm leveling up a bit faster than the designers assume I am. This actually gets harder as it rolls along.

[Sidney]

Lord ****zu wrote...

Tactics
Develop some good Tactics for your companion, while I like to micromanage my party, the combat is fast paced enough that well implemented tactics can help out quite a bit while you are repositioning people and such. One thing I consider crucial is a good chain of [condition]-->Attack tactics, to focus fire and keep melee character from constantly disengaging and running across the room.

First tactics is always Self-->Heath<10%---->Heal.
Last tactics is always Enemy--->Target of Aveline-->Attack where Aveline is my tank so so 3 of the 4 people will always focus on her target. That lets me manage my mage at a micro level and my allies still do reasonable things.

[Lord Shitzu]

StingingVelvet wrote...

I think one of the main reasons hard is a little too hard for me is that I refuse to use tactics, I play every character myself. I've read all the suggestions on here though and some of it is an improvement over how I do things, so I will try it out.

I do think on a second playthrough I will manage the ability trees better. Despite respecing my Hawke I still feel too spread out.

In any case the main point of the thread is that I want a difficulty setting where I have to use pause and plan and tactical strategy but not be wiped out for not having the perfect party or abilities. DA:O on normal was pretty much that, but DA2 on normal is a cake-walk meant for people who never pause.

I sympathize, I'd rather control them all as well, but IMO with how fast everything happens in this game, and with how hard it can be to accurately target things without an overhead view (for instance, I have to move my mage across the room just to be able to target his AoE ability without people and objects getting in the way) tactics are pretty much mandatory for those periods when people are repositioning at least. At least Attack ones to keep them choosing target intelligently.

[Loc'n'lol]

I played on hard and found it just fine. I would frequently lose one or more party members to major fights, and do just fine the rest of the time. Can't say it makes me want to bump the difficulty into nightmare territory though, that might just be too much for me to actually enjoy it.

A tactic I put last on most characters : enemy : lowest health -> attack. Particularly good for rogues, it allows me to let them cull out the minor annoyances before they can gang up and become real trouble, and it ensures to an extent that they concentrate on the same target.

Personally I make very minimal use of tactics (activate default modals, drink health pot when tank is low on health, finsish cross class combo when the effect triggers), I prefer to trigger most talents myself, in some cases this is probably sub-optimal because I end up not using all I have at my disposal, but I prefer to have the stuff I need available when I need it (not on cooldown, enough mana).

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 13 mars 2011 - 09:41 .

[Ingrimm22]

The point is, that the game is balanced pretty badly (which is not surprising given the short time they had to develop the game). Those who say that "hard" or even "Nightmare" is a walk in the park are just lying, i'm sorry. It has nothing to do with planning or tactics or spec, it's just that bosses have too much HP compared to the dps-output of the party. That results in all of the ressources being exhausted at a point (everything's on cooldown etc.) and at that point it's just "Game Over", no amount of "skills" can change that. Another big letdown are the unpredictable waves of adds from out of nowhere which is just annyoingly bad gamedesign form the late 90's. DA:O didn't have to resort to such cheesyness.

[cyph]

Tactics do make a difference. Here is the video of the Mature Dragon on Nightmare, using only one health and one stamina pot. The only reason I used pots were to keep everyone alive. I didn't micromanage too much to keep the length of the video down. With proper micro, this boss could be beaten with no potions use at all.

I won't lie. Nightmare is no cake walk. However, once you figure out how to play tactically, it gets much easier.

[Sidney]

The biggest problem with bosses isn't the bosses, it is the "spawning" trash mobs that suck up mana/stamina at a ferocious rate and surround your ranged fighters because they come at you from all directions.

[cyph]

What do you have problems on? I almost never need to use pots on trash mobs. If you learn to keep the mob on your tank, then have your DPS kill the rest one by one via focus fire or CCC, it should be no issue. The biggest issue are the assassins. Three ways to deal with them, (1) pause right when they reappear and mind blast them, (2) use a stun AOE (the flask talent from Varric) talent then AOE them with spells, (3) move everyone away and leave your tank with stonewall to take the back stab, or (4) run away until they reappear then you burst kill them.

Assassins require burst kill. For example, I hit him with a stagger (upgraded shield bash or pommel strike, or mighty blow), chain lightning for 600%, petrify, rogue (twin fang, backstab, etc), or any other CCC, and the assassin would be dead before he even stealth. Once you figure it out, the game on nightmare becomes much easier. Also, when you're ambushed, run away. Just like in real life, you do not want to stay in the cross fire. There is no rule that says you have to fight at the place where you get ambushed. The entire level is your battlefield.

[SuperMedbh]

I was wanting a mid-range difficulty as well. Partially, it's because I find it more fun/dramatic not to pause unless absolutely necessary (like when I want to switch the controlled character). And no doubt, my builds could use some work.

For me, Normal was silly easy. My dual weapon rogue simply waded through piles of exploding baddies without so much as needing a single special ability. But bosses on Normal felt about right.

Hard felt perfect for most fights, but there were a couple (end of Act 2, High Dragon) that it was just getting boring-- it just seemed to take forever to whittle the boss down. And sometimes, I'd just get clobbered. I'm one of those who prefers not to reset three times.

I ended up playing on Hard until I got whomped in a fight, then turning it down to Normal for the fight.

Modifié par SuperMedbh, 14 mars 2011 - 03:08 .

[limpan21]

If you use DLC gear and spend cash on the black emporium gear as well as having a min/max approach to the game (taking synergizing abilities / class combinations) then yes hard is not really that hard and neither is nightmare.

However if you dont spend cash on dlc gear (or dont have black emporium), chose characters based on rp quality with no regards to synergy then yes hard is hard and nightmare will be a real pain in the backside to run through.

I like it though, im trying a 4 rogue party on nightmare and its fiendishly hard at times but its also a helluva lot of fun.

Tbh i think its good that they made hard abit of a challenge (and nightmare even more so), i mean normal is there for people to enjoy the story (and hard is there for future playthroughs) and learn the game so it doesnt matter if its super easy.

In DA:O, when you reached about midgame you pretty much steamrolled the rest of the game due to having access to super gear, the gear progression in da2 is way better (even though black emporium gear is way to good imo) as it limits how "strong" your characters are and gearing up each "tier" or act really becomes important.

Modifié par limpan21, 24 avril 2011 - 12:18 .

[Waltzingbear]

I'm sure that the former participants of this topic will turn in their graves in excitement of news about your helpful advices.