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Okay, I reject and denounce the difficulty and the imbalance of this game


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#51
egervari

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LegendaryFluffy wrote...

I haven't gotten to this part yet, but what I do on really hard parts is move back to a doorway and plug all the bad guys up there. If you can, before you jump into a battle, (this doesn't work if the battle is initiated with a cutscene) set your party to hold position, get out a bow or use your mage to attack just one enemy. If done correctly, this causes just one baddie to leave his position and attack without bringing all the combatants at the same time. Switch back to free movement, kill the bad guy, and repeat ad inifinitum.


LOL, I sometimes do the same thing. This fight purposefully closes the door behind you. I already completed it now, but I had to go really slow, pause every second, and burn a lot of pots. Not an easy fight.

#52
egervari

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Selvec_Darkon wrote...

Potions help, you'd be surprised how useful those balms that offer protection against various types of damage are. It's particularly useful when you are vsing enemies that tend to spam one type of damage. Like fireball.


I agree, and I use them. Sometimes the mages use all sorts of spells from shatteringshot with fireballs attached to them, then they cast cone of cold. While that's going on, you got another guy casting a lightning spell.

For these consumables to be effective though, you gotta use the expensive/rare ones as a 10% benefit isn't going to make a big difference. 

There is always a notion that consumables are optional and not really necessary in rpgs, but in this game, they are very necessary as the mages can't get every spell, and there are a lot less options because of that. Also picking wrong spells can totally hose the player.

#53
Zibon

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egervari wrote...
Then wynn's earth picks are junk. I don't care what that other poster said. Earthquake is giant failure of a spell. Anytime it's effective, you don't really need it... and when you really need it, it doesn't do anything.

Well if you have bad luck when enemies passing their resistance checks then you'll have the same problem with every crowd control spell.

#54
Raisthlin Arckon

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egervari wrote...

Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Kwonne wrote...

The higher Magic value the better heal yes?

Also, use Heroic Defence and Regeneration as well as Group Heal. (while Heal cooldown is refreshing)


Yep... have the best magic value I can get already...and using all of those spells.


whats your magic and spell power values ?


37 willpower and 45 magic and 44 spellpower.


Oh well...thats your problem then...Does theses stats include item and spells/skills bonus ? My healer as over 100 magic and spellpower

#55
egervari

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Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Kwonne wrote...

The higher Magic value the better heal yes?

Also, use Heroic Defence and Regeneration as well as Group Heal. (while Heal cooldown is refreshing)


Yep... have the best magic value I can get already...and using all of those spells.


whats your magic and spell power values ?


37 willpower and 45 magic and 44 spellpower.


Oh well...thats your problem then...Does theses stats include item and spells/skills bonus ? My healer as over 100 magic and spellpower


Well, what weapons do you have and what level? I just got level 16, and I don't have any godly items like that staff of the magister lord. I never had the money to even remotely buy that until now. I have no idea where I went wrong.

And yes, that's with the bonuses (x + y) included.

#56
Raisthlin Arckon

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egervari wrote...

Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Kwonne wrote...

The higher Magic value the better heal yes?

Also, use Heroic Defence and Regeneration as well as Group Heal. (while Heal cooldown is refreshing)


Yep... have the best magic value I can get already...and using all of those spells.


whats your magic and spell power values ?


37 willpower and 45 magic and 44 spellpower.


Oh well...thats your problem then...Does theses stats include item and spells/skills bonus ? My healer as over 100 magic and spellpower


Well, what weapons do you have and what level? I just got level 16, and I don't have any godly items like that staff of the magister lord. I never had the money to even remotely buy that until now. I have no idea where I went wrong.

And yes, that's with the bonuses (x + y) included.


well that is definetely your problem then. Those stats i mentionned are at level 19 (so you could make them a lot better) with some good, not best robe and staff, also use spell wisp, arcane mastery and turn spell might on before healing.

here is a mod to re-roll your characters: http://social.bioware.com/project/469/ Its especially useful to re-roll other party members. reset attributes, specializations, spells/skills and lets you build how you see fit. You dont really need ot use it buts its useful.

#57
Raisthlin Arckon

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oh and before going on with the quest. do some travelling from point A to B to get some random encounters to make some money and gain 2-3 levels so you can get better spells/skills and equipment or you could do some sidequest. its up to you.



dont forget the mod i mentionned as well: http://social.bioware.com/project/469/



hope you have fun. sorry for bein an ass...i was just wondering how you could find it difficult but its no wonder with theses stats. just reset them stats and customize it yourself. http://social.bioware.com/project/469/

#58
kingthrall

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im fighting the archdemon and i have never even heard fo wynn no joke :P

#59
egervari

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Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Raisthlin Arckon wrote...

egervari wrote...

Kwonne wrote...

The higher Magic value the better heal yes?

Also, use Heroic Defence and Regeneration as well as Group Heal. (while Heal cooldown is refreshing)


Yep... have the best magic value I can get already...and using all of those spells.


whats your magic and spell power values ?


37 willpower and 45 magic and 44 spellpower.


Oh well...thats your problem then...Does theses stats include item and spells/skills bonus ? My healer as over 100 magic and spellpower


Well, what weapons do you have and what level? I just got level 16, and I don't have any godly items like that staff of the magister lord. I never had the money to even remotely buy that until now. I have no idea where I went wrong.

And yes, that's with the bonuses (x + y) included.


well that is definetely your problem then. Those stats i mentionned are at level 19 (so you could make them a lot better) with some good, not best robe and staff, also use spell wisp, arcane mastery and turn spell might on before healing.

here is a mod to re-roll your characters: http://social.bioware.com/project/469/ Its especially useful to re-roll other party members. reset attributes, specializations, spells/skills and lets you build how you see fit. You dont really need ot use it buts its useful.


Well, I wouldn't say my gear is bad. I honestly don't think I missed any items other than items for purchase. I only have 140-150 gold saved up so far, which is not enough to buy every tier 7 item up for sale :( I think by the end of the game, I'm going to have to pick and choose what is worth buying and hope that it doesn't just drop from a mob some point later.

#60
H4rdL0v3

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Aw man, i think i won out of sheer luck on my 3rd or 4th try. Had only Morrigan left against 3 archers and managed to pull off a win using cone of cold and some damage spells, come to think had i had Wynne instead, i probably would not have survived or would her healing have saved my tank and dps rogue?



Next play thru i'll deffinitely try out traps but i'll be damned if thats the only way to be able to successfully play on hard difficulty... Seems you need to build the perfect team in every aspect or else your in for a rough ride.

#61
Sinfulvannila

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A few suggestions:



You said you needed 1 more level to get a critical spell? You can buy tomes that give your characters spell points. If you are running just one mage, it's definitley worth it. I think there's one at the Dalish Camp and one in the magic shop in Denerim.



Do you have anyone with Poison Making? Soulrot Bombs are extremely useful and reasonably priced. They do 80 spirit damage in a small radius. I think they only require second tier poison making too, but it may be third. I have Leliana and Alistair use them in large group fights, that takes out whites really quickly. Plus if you have Mind blast that makes it easy to set them up for the poison.



You can give Morrigan gifts in camp. Just go to the inventory and drag the gift onto her. She likes any jewelry that isn't chantry related.



I completely agree about Healing magic being unnecesary. There's no way it keeps pace with damage until you get extremely high level. Plus it's really, really boring.

#62
Reef Peerat

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egervari... I feel your pain. I am a dps rogue player as well. However, I just played through that fight at around lvl 15/16 and I think I did it in one maybe 2 tries.



I have Wynn, Sten, Alistair and my dps rogue. I think the trick to Wynn being effective is making her only cast what she needs to... and make sure her magic stat is up at really high. I use her with a Wisp. Then, in tactics, make her heal anyone with less than 75%. Then, any ally with less than 50% gets group heal, and then regeneration. That way you can cycle through 3 different healing spells that all go off in a quick series when you really need em.



I usually try to kill casters first, then team up all my guys on one target. Try to make the big mobs hit your tank, but save the big one for last, and triple team all the little guys to make em go away faster. Oh ya, and grenades are a good idea as mentioned earlier in this thread. Do a super 'nade combo by getting 3 or 4 different types and firing them all off in a quick series. Easy way to take out clumps of White mobs ie. Genlocks.



I totally triggered most of her traps, maybe I got lucky...

#63
Pyrate_d

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definitely a hard fight



I beat it with AOE, but it took a few tries

#64
Schyzm

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If the game is hard and you consider yourself pretty competent at rpgs just add more mages to your party. they're the ones that actually make the difference. and remember lyrium potions never run out.

#65
Blindandbloody

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Ah, I remember on my mage and ended up having to kill Wynne. The details aren't important, what IS important is once I lost her I was forced to duo a lot of horrible horrible things that made me scream at my monitor a lot in frustration.






#66
abr4

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I don't see the problem, I'm running on nightmare as a shield warrior (shield line maxed) with blooddragon armor or whatever it's called and the redcliffe shield.



In my party are Oghren, Leliana and Morrigan (which I respecced to Spirit Healer instead of Shapeshifter and I don't have a problem ever. White mobs usually only hit me for 1 dmg when Shield Wall is up. I'm at the point where I'm considering to rerespec Morrigan out of Spirit Healer because Group Heal makes it too easy (don't use the other Spirit Healer skills anyway).



I did the fight on the second try, no one died. The first try I had to reload because I didn't catch enough enemies with my taunt, Morrigan got aggro and died in a few seconds and I didn't want to bother to do the fight without a healer.

Oh and I didn't use Cone of Cold or Sleep, neither did I disarm any traps until the fight was finished. My level was about 14 / 15, maybe 13.



I am honestly wondering what other people do different from me having such a hard time.

#67
Default137

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Are you using pause?



Honestly, I'm not sure how you are having so much trouble, are you using CC, running your guys out when they get flanked ( more then 2 attacking them ), are you pausing for heals/reapplication of CC? Do you have a decent amount of CC with you?



You should be able to beat pretty much every encounter in this game with just smart use of Dirty Fighting/Stuns, if you are playing on Normal, and have a Warrior, and set up tactics correctly ( Wynne having if a party member goes below 75% use Heal, if to many people do, use Group Heal, everyone else focus on CC ) you should be able to waltz over most of the fights.

#68
flem1

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Clues: buy them. The beauty of the game is that you *can't* use the same stupid tank&spank strategy in every fight. Mages get a lot of spells: use them. Have some for locking down swarms (AOE), some for single tough bosses (force field, the hex line), and some for healing. Concentrate on one thing, sure, but don't be left without tactical options.



Heck, just running Wynne through the whole earth line gives her decent crowd control (earthquake) and a surprisingly effective high-level disabler (petrify). But I would back this up with something like the hex line as well.

#69
Jinadan

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I had morrigan setup to use mass paralyze w/ 3 or more clustered enemies. works great, and no friendly fire. trivialized that area.

#70
Devlen12

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I have no clue how your using Wynne but she makes the game easy mode with her healing... maybe your not putting the right points or not setting up her tactics right i dunno

#71
kab

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Sure, it's possible that I pick those exact spells from all those that are available. And a new player to the game on the first playthrough is supposed to know this... how?




Regardless, that makes it "possible" rather than "impossible". In fact it makes it not just possible but trivial. This is a gripe of mine, obviously. How would you know? Well, you'd have to look around the internet, or try out some of the spells. There's nothing requiring you to play on a certain difficulty, you've put that burden on yourself. While I agree with many of your sentiments in the end it's not really BioWare's fault if you don't know the spells and talents well enough to succeed at a higher difficulty.



You are right in one way, I have 3 points saved up on wynn from level 14 to 16. And I guess I have 4 more levels or so to go before I reach the end of the game. So I guess I could get those spirit spells and all of the glyphs... in time. Sadly, by the time I get these spells, I'll be almost done the game, having put up with most of the frustration by not having these spells and when I do have them all, I won't get many oppurtunities to use them.




Pretty much any encounter in the game can be won with a couple ranged, a tank with Taunt, and Force Field. You only need two spell picks to get that.



You can argue I didn't build up my campanions properly. I agree - but there's so many options, how is one supposed to know? It's not like the game's picks are awesome. And some people's advice (like getting arcane mastery because it's "so good" is just plain bad bad bad advice).




I agree, again, and the fact that BioWare seems to think being vague, ambiguous and opaque with game mechanics, spells, talents, etc. is a "feature" is highly disappointing. If I want to crank out algebraic equations to figure out the best build EVARRRR!!!! then stay out of the bloody way, make "detailed information" an option that's off by default so only those of us who care seek it out. Or put it in the manual, or a wiki, do SOMETHING for crying out loud. Regardless, I'm going to go back to your resistance to lowering the difficulty. It's up to you to learn enough about the game to succeed on a higher difficulty.



Because of the imbalance of mages vs. everything else, and the imbalance of skills within the mage tree, there is huge potential for a player to mess it up. Sure it's easy if you know what to pick... but with so many combinations being "wrong", I think that's a fault on the game's design and not so much the player. And there is no in-game respec, although I hear there's a mod for it now. Still, should have been put into the game if choosing abilities is this fragile.




I couldn't care less about a "respec" but the rest I agree with. Were I BioWare I would be examining the process this thing went through in QA and playtesting. How the hell do you manage to spend 5 years in development and come out with a game where one spell is the difference between trivial and nigh impossible battles on the hardest difficulty? It is impressive just how badly they screwed up the balance, I have to wonder if the only reason BG and BG2 didn't have "I WIN" buttons on the toolbar is because they used someone else's rules?

#72
egervari

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kab wrote...

Regardless, that makes it "possible" rather than "impossible". In fact it makes it not just possible but trivial. This is a gripe of mine, obviously. How would you know? Well, you'd have to look around the internet, or try out some of the spells. There's nothing requiring you to play on a certain difficulty, you've put that burden on yourself. While I agree with many of your sentiments in the end it's not really BioWare's fault if you don't know the spells and talents well enough to succeed at a higher difficulty.


How can I try out all the spells if I am locked into them and get only 1 point per level? To realistically try out a chain, you must hold back 4 talent points, save your game, pick them and try them out in a few battles... and then reload if you don't like them. With so few talent points from levels, it crucial to pick correctly. This is even more true with wynn, as by level 10 (which is pretty modest to get her), the game has selected 4 talents which most players with a brain would not pick if they had the choice.

Games should not be overly-reliant on using the internet and guides. This is a cop-out. A balanced game should support all the options it has available. There shouldn't be a very narrow "right path". This is a fault on the game balance, despite what you say.

kab wrote...

I agree, again, and the fact that BioWare seems to think being vague, ambiguous and opaque with game mechanics, spells, talents, etc. is a "feature" is highly disappointing. If I want to crank out algebraic equations to figure out the best build EVARRRR!!!! then stay out of the bloody way, make "detailed information" an option that's off by default so only those of us who care seek it out. Or put it in the manual, or a wiki, do SOMETHING for crying out loud. Regardless, I'm going to go back to your resistance to lowering the difficulty. It's up to you to learn enough about the game to succeed on a higher difficulty.


Again, the game doesn't encourage exploration in this area, so solo learning (trial and error) is hard due to the time it would take to build several characters to test things out. I agree with you... when a skill says, "gives a modest/moderate/large bonus to X", I am totally lost. When I find out that a "ginormous" bonus is only 5%, I am extremely skeptical about the other bonus descriptions and wonder if they are even worth wasting points in them at all. To me, 5% is too low, and that is one of their largest bonuses, then I don't even see the point to getting them. If you can't win with a score of 100, I don't know what 105 is going to do to solve your problems...

#73
Chesta12345

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PRO TIP:

Heal is for low health dps that need spot heals.

Regeneration is for the tank. With so much health, the increased health regen can usually out-heal the damage being dealt to a good tank.  I had Wynne setup to cast regeneration on me at <75% health and only on the hardest encounters did I have to worry about my health.

Modifié par Chesta12345, 16 novembre 2009 - 08:39 .


#74
RedShft

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I had a party of my duelist warrior, Alister, Shale and Morrigan for heals. A lot of these encounters depend on pure dps because heals are lacking due to cooldowns and plain poor heals.

#75
maji123

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Hello op, have you considered changing position you begin fight at? my first fight I died cause was out open fighitng but then second attempt I noticed on the left I could hide behind the pillar this made her mobs all come behind it giving me some cover from the ranged and avoiding my heros from running up to the traps, I took down all the white mobs and cced her each time she came out till they all dead then nuked her to death , I had mage my main warrior rogue/might be golem and healer. It will make the fight much easier. good luck