126 réponses à ce sujet

[egervari]

Chesta12345 wrote...

PRO TIP:

Heal is for low health dps that need spot heals.

Regeneration is for the tank. With so much health, the increased health regen can usually out-heal the damage being dealt to a good tank.  I had Wynne setup to cast regeneration on me at <75% health and only on the hardest encounters did I have to worry about my health.

Unfortunately, regen is not enough to circumvent damage in just about every hard fight - whether there is massive spells getting thrown your way or getting crit'ed two times in a row (usually results in death if a boss does that regardless how awesome your armor is) and so on.

I find that to keep up with heals, I have to use the level 1 heal and regen on the same person, as the damage comes in too fast to only have one or the other. The cooldowns become a big problem. The real problem is that they just don't heal for enough hp.

In tough fights, it is not uncommon for hp to hovering at 30-50% and just trying to stay alive as it is, because it's constantly getting lowered. At which point, mana gets depleted and the mage has to pot, or the tank needs to use a health pot. I would say using health pots and not relying on the mage to heal is also a pretty common occurence.

Modifié par egervari, 16 novembre 2009 - 08:57 .

[kal_torak]

I did the bosses there on the first try. I had 2 mages on my team tho, and one of them was my main char.

[egervari]

kal_torak wrote...

I did the bosses there on the first try. I had 2 mages on my team tho, and one of them was my main char.

Well, that explains that.

Honestly, I decided to go with the spirit path. The prison spell at rank 4 of the chain is really good, and actually works, unlike the piece of crap earth spells you are stuck with. I still think mind blast is too short of a stun to be all that useful.

I dunno if I like force field. I do the taunt and force field trick that people claim is so awesome... but that only works against situations where I'd win the way I'm playing anyway. It does not work against mages and their cheap aoe spells and cone of cold this and that. The prison spell actually does what I need it to do. It's too bad one has to wait 4 freaking ranks to get it :/

[Selvec_Darkon]

I have to say that a lot of the time I'll see people playing the AW, with maxed out stats and I can't help but think to myself "You just know that dude plays WOW and powerbuilds, taking pride in his leet skills and m@d h@ck$." Whatever happened to story telling? Bioware tells a good story, no doubt, but when games become about building the storngest character, you just have to know that some sort of artistery and skill has been lost. It's a wee bit sad.

[egervari]

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

I have to say that a lot of the time I'll see people playing the AW, with maxed out stats and I can't help but think to myself "You just know that dude plays WOW and powerbuilds, taking pride in his leet skills and m@d h@ck$." Whatever happened to story telling? Bioware tells a good story, no doubt, but when games become about building the storngest character, you just have to know that some sort of artistery and skill has been lost. It's a wee bit sad.

This game is not designed for just story-telling. It is a strong component, to be sure, but this game is also very focused on combat. Everything about this game is pretty hardcore, at least by modern standards.

We aren't trying to min-max here - we're just trying to get some sense of balance to the game, because I recognize that there isn't any.

[rikkles]

I think I fought this battle (dwarf woman/golem) with Oghren, Wynn, Morrigan and my dual-dagger rogue.

First thing first: lock the dwarf woman. Keep Wynn from doing anything except heal. Proceed to backstab away every yellow golem. Use cone of cold from Morrigan to accelerate the killing if you want. Run Morrigan and Wynn to all the lyrium and clean them out. As soon as dwarf gets out, see who she targets. run away while Morrigan's lock finishes recharging. Repeat and rince.

When everything is dead except for the dwarf woman, you'll have a couple of golems to help you. At that point send everyone on her. Cone of cold, affliction, etc... etc... Simple easy massacre.

[haptsonir]

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

I have to say that a lot of the time I'll see people playing the AW, with maxed out stats and I can't help but think to myself "You just know that dude plays WOW and powerbuilds, taking pride in his leet skills and m@d h@ck$." Whatever happened to story telling? Bioware tells a good story, no doubt, but when games become about building the storngest character, you just have to know that some sort of artistery and skill has been lost. It's a wee bit sad.

The fact that someone decides to play such a character doesn't mean the game is "about" playing that way.

Plenty of people have soloed BG2 on the hardest difficulty with insanely powerful kensai/mage or sorcerer characters, too.

I've had no issues playing a normal warrior character without any min-maxing so far, on the hard difficulty. Jarvia was tough, but what IS sad is that "challenging" has become a negative connotation in today's RPGs.

Modifié par haptsonir, 16 novembre 2009 - 01:20 .

[Itkovian]

I find the default tactics for Wynne as a healer work rather well, with some minor tweaking so she does not waste some of the more exotic buffs on anyone other than the tank.

What this means is that you should have Wynne use regeneration in a fight, it is in fact better than heal, but simply isn't front-loaded. For a tank that should not be an issue.

Also, it sounds like your tank isn't immune to flanking, and that's why you're seeing all those damage spikes. You definitely should give your tank the shield line that stops flanking, as that mostly disables backstabs. Also, give him the best physical resistance you can, to resist all those stuns and knockdowns.

Finally, don't hesitate to drop Lifeward even before a fight, letting Wynne regenerate her mana before entering combat. And in combat as well, Lifeward is very useful. It's basically a delayed heal that works on a different cooldown than Heal, so use it as such. Same goes with group heal.

Basically, Wynne's healing is absolutely top notch, but you have to use all her abilities. In my current playthrough (on normal), Wynne can use all those abilities and still have mana left over for CC and attack (usually I start fights by having her cone of cold, or blizzard, or petrify/stonefist). The simple act of shutting down several attackers immediately translates into lower damage to heal.

And, of course, don't forget those lyrium potions. The Circle Tower has unlimited Lyrium, make use of that.

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

Sounds like you might be having problems with your tank (and probably CC). How is Alistair fitted out?

Usually, once I get regeneration on my tank (my PC), health loss is not much of a concern, and of course he is mostly immune to backstabs due to his shield talents.

Are you having Alistair use Shield Wall? You will find that to be the best tanking talent (especially with shield mastery). What is Alistair's current armour? Also be sure to stack physical resistance on him, so he can resist all those stuns (knockdown should not be an issue, with Shield Expertise and shield wall activated).

Admittedly, the fight with Jarvia was a difficult one. I started off having Wynne cast blizzard/earthquake on her directly, while my team waited for her melee guards to move in. That essentially shut her and most of her ranged minions down while we took care of the melee attackers, then I moved in my tank on Jarvia while Leliana and Alistair (who is 2-handed DPS for me) focused on her adds (having an archer can be quite helpful for many reasons, not the least of which is that it usually means someone is dealing out DPS without requiring healing).

At that point Wynne was mostly healing, but did some CC. Petrify is actually extremely useful, as well as cone of cold. Petrify is great for single targets, and lasts a long time (better than Cone of Cold) - it actually frequently petrifies bosses, it worked on Jarvia for example, and the High Dragon.

Still, at one point Jarvia stealthed then backstabbed Wynne and dropped her, but by then the adds were down and I had everyone finish off Jarvia.

A big part is having good CC right out of the gate (which wynne can do), and making sure your tank is properly kitted out (at level 16, he should be in massive armour, such as the Juggernaut or Dragonbone Plate armour).

Itkovian

[Taltherion]

With my Dwarf, I went straight to Orzammar after Lothering. Morrigan, Allistair and Dog - so no Healer. I killed the Carta boss on normal difficulty in my first try ... I did NOT find it that difficult.



Morrigan and my dwarven rogue kept the boss stunned most of the time.



I had much bigger problems in the arena with the last group of enemies (switched to easy for that fight) ... and I gave up in the Deep Roads when I tried to kill the spider queen. It simply was too early to brave the deep roads at that level, I think.



But lvl 16 - you should not have these problems with the carta boss.

[MikeMonger]

Ignore the boss, tear through the no-names real quick, then take down the boss.

It's how you deal with ALL the boss fights in this game.

[Surfie]

Dragoro21 wrote...

Surfie wrote...

I soloed that on my mage on Nightmare.

liar, dont believe a thing you say.

Dragoro, you must really suck at video games.

I soloed almost every fight in the game on my mage on Nightmare.  There were only a few exceptions.

[Endarken]

I did this on normal. Lvl 15ish. I had me dagger rogue, alistair tank, wynne healing, and shale in obelisk form. I just basically had alistair aoe taunt/whatever it is and then I chopped them up. This fight actually wasn't that bad. The worst fight I had was at the end of the dwarven area. Also I go through a ton of health poultices. Alistair pops them like candy. I suppose thats because I don't have any CC.

[CastorKrieg]

egervari wrote...
Everything about this game is pretty hardcore, at least by modern standards.

No, you just suck at this game, don't blame it on hardcore difficulty. You have Force Field? Crazy thought - how about putting Force Field ON THE BOSS??? OMFG, Boss is out for 20 seconds, so you can deal with crap regular mobs. Oh wait, 5 sec after first Force Field wears off you can use it again, for taking out the boss for ANOTHER 20 SECONDS!

Read what each ability does and stop playing this like action RPG.

Modifié par CastorKrieg, 16 novembre 2009 - 03:38 .

[CastorKrieg]

Double post, sorry.

Modifié par CastorKrieg, 16 novembre 2009 - 03:34 .

[Valtonis]

spell might + tempest + blizzard = all you need for any boss

[Raxxman]

eh, don't pretend this game is the height of rts tactics and skills.



The tactics are basic at best, the enemy AI is awful and if you're reliant on a spell that only 2 NPCs can cast then it's fundamentally broken.



That said I did this with 1 mage and 2 two handers + an archer on nightmare. I relied on pommel strike to keep the LOLDPS on her fat ass for as long as possible while I mopped up the rest.



As for the Min/maxing that's happened since Baldurs Gate (I personally loved my elven fighter/mage who had 18/100 str, 19 dex, 16 con 17 int as 1st rolled stats), it's just more important in DA because the party number is smaller and the game is less balanced than 2nd ed D&D (which is quite a feat).

[Killyox the Defender]

do you mean caridian place? where you fight branda? Heh for me she seemed very easy tbh at least at HARD. So far the hardest for me was Corrupted Spider Queen and that damned ugly thing bloated all oer with tentacles and stuff.



Anyways as many have said. This isnt Oblivion. Easy is actually what you would call Oblivion hardest mode. BioWare never did "easy" games. Even BG required a lot of thinking at high difficulty level a lot of pausing a lot of tactics and synergy between chars right spells and right gear and chars.



This isnt supposed to be diablo you know and it is SUPPOSED to be hard game ESPECIALLY at "Hard" and "Nightmare"



I play on Hard for my first walkthrough as i get to know game and what is good or bad but my 2nd will be definitly on Nightmare



Game is GOOD and i am VERY happy it isnt EASY.

also i have dexterity fix which makes archers [also NPC!] a lot more deadlier

[Killyox the Defender]

Petrify Stone fist, Blizzard, earthquake, Blood Wound Force Field Mind Blast Waking Nightmare [actually this1 is great when yellows hit orange mob ]



Theres so many good spells that can EASLY make fight trivial

[Cadarin]

So you refuse to turn the difficulty level down, but demand that Bioware patch the game to make it easier for you? What a joke. Either way you've admitted that you can't cut it, so why do you want to ruin the game for the rest of us?



That fight was a lot of fun imo. I died on my first try and beat it on the second. I'm playing on hard without a healer. My group at that point had 2 tanks, a rogue, and a mage. The most dangerous part of that fight was the traps, there are a lot of them. I died the first time because my tank hit one and it killed him outright.



I beat it on the second try by having my rogue run past everyone and disable as many traps as possible. Meanwhile, my main tank took on the boss while my mage and my other tank took out the weak enemies as fast as possible. My rogue jumped in as soon as the traps were gone. It was a pretty chaotic fight, but honestly not one of the hardest ones. Do yourself a favor and either start thinking about the fights more tactically, or turn down the difficulty.

[Haexpane]

egervari wrote...

I made a topic yesturday about game balance here:
http://social.biowar.../9/index/197068

Everything I said still holds true today. I'm at the point in the game where I am in the dwarven section of the game and I'm taking out the carta boss at level 16. 

I have to say, the battle is near impossible with just a healer mage. I mean, how come wynn sucks so much as a healer? Her heals do squat. Seriously... Alistair has 350 health and her heals only heal up 1/4 of that. With such long cooldowns and getting hit so hard, Wynn is freaking worthless. How is one suppose to get through this encounter with wynn as the only mage and your hero character is a dps rogue?

I'm not saying it's impossible... but it requires substantial potting, and some luck. I've died about 8 or 9 times already. I almost beat it, but I lost the tank (alistair) and I raised him from the dead, but the game didn't recognize my heal so nothing happened... which I have to say, happened a few attempts ago as well. There's nothing like a raise dead failing at a critical time because I might not have target the corpse exactly? I thought I did... but whatever.

When the enemies are critical attacking your warriors with tier 6 magical gear and doing 90% damage, and then criting again with a follow up attack... it just makes me think the entire game balance is broken. Seriously... we have sten in tier 6 gear and he gets dead in 2 attacks. There's no time for a mage to react, and even if she does, the second hit does so much damage that the first heal doesn't do squat. Really, healers in this game are terrible, and so are warriors.

I could lower the difficulty down, but I refuse to. I've gotten this far without lowering it - damn if I'm going to lower it now.

There really needs to be a patch. I have no idea how to get reliably get through this encounter without luck and patience. And if I had a second mage that didn't hate me so much, I might not be posting this right now. Totally imbalanced. There's no way it should be this hard.

Spam health potions?  With enough health potions I've solo'd high dragon.  It's annoying, but that's MMO style combat for you.  "Healers and patchers"  DAO has no true patchers, so healers are good, but not nearly as useful as MMO, so they go the diablo route and offer potions.

[Skemte]

Every time I see some one mention MMO with balance in the same sentence I want to bang my head against the wall.. Game play balance is an extremely important thing in any game where the person is given multiple choices.. MMO's shouldn't have anything to do with it.. Tell me if there were 5 crap classses in the game, and one insanely overpowered class in the game that was amazingly cool would people care? Of course they would! When there are choices to be made people would hope that each choice would be meaningful different, but ultimately being no right or wrong choice.. YES EVEN IN singleplayer games, it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced of course but there are some issues that could be tweaked to make this game at least for me more enjoyable.. That is all... People need to grow up if they can't take criticism to their beloved game.

[Nixhound77]

Exactly like Cadarin said, why ruin the game for everyone else (demanding a patch that makes the game easier) because some strange and silly refusal to lower the difficulty. The developers have implemented the perfect solution for you (easy difficulty), but you are too badass to use this feature.

I agree that the game isn't easy, compared to many other rpgs, but it's not too hard. And lots of spells are useful, you just have to be creative. I'm on my second playthrough, have finished Redcliffe and almost the Circle Tower, and I haven't died a single time so far (playing on hard).

I have tried almost every spell in the game, and almost none of them are useless, if you know how and when to use them (but some are better than others of course). The exception are the shapeshifting spells IMO. Stonefist and earthquake are excellent spells. OP, what spells do you have? If you tell, maybe someone here could give you advice on how to use them?

Modifié par Nixhound77, 16 novembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

It's a challenge, but it's not impossible. I'm going to bet you aren't doing enough crowd control. Also remember to have your DPS concentrate on a mob, that includes your tank and ranged attacks. A mob a 1% health does exactly the same damage as a mob at 100% health..



Here is how I did it:



I did the dwarf quest chain last. I was probably level 14 or so. My DPS rogue (Duelist), Morrigan as a healer (she wasn't Spirit Healer at that point), my dog Thirteen, and Alistair as a tank in the Blood Dragon armor.



Alistair moved up against a wall and let the mobs charge in. This helped cluster up the mobs as they attempted to hit him. I sent Thirteen off to Charge the ranged mobs while my rogue DPS'd down one mob on Alistair at a time. Mostly, I sent Morrigan around to flank the mobs damaging Alistair. She used Cone of Cold and let my rogue and Alistair dish out the damage. Morrigan than sat back and dropped heals as needed, or more Cones of Cold here and there.



After the initial rush, everyone pig piled on the boss until more adds came. Then I went back to my first strategy. Rinse, repeat, loot boss.



I didn't realize I had the sleep spell until the final chapter. I I had known that, I would have used it here too. Great spell!

[Chillsaber]

You can quickly get through using unusual spell selections on a mage. Your goal in massive fights is either to disable the main boss while finishing off the trash (paralyze, sleep, frost spells, mass paralyze) and dimishing their damage output (miasma and various hexes) to allow time for the group to do their job. Also, I try to shatter as many opponents as possible.



Have you been remodeling the tactics to your own play style? Once you create the proper set of tactics, micro management become useless as it is no longer required.



You mentionned using Wynne and having a low mana pool. Did you increase her will power and spell power and provide her with mana regeneration? She does not usually use group heal by default. You might want to consider using the ward for automatic healing while near death.