15 réponses à ce sujet

[Prismo]

I have been looking over DAWiki and thinking about the build I want to use for a Nightmare Duel Wield Rogue for almost the entirety of my last two lectures and I am at an impasse, so I thought I might seek some thoughts.

My main problem is that I am torn about which specialization to take first, Assassin or Duelist.

This will be the base (note: will be respecing out of Miasmic Flask and buying Tome of Physical whatever):

1. Backstab
2. Unforgiving Chain
3. Explosive Strike
4. Merciless Strike
5. Murder
6. Twin Fangs + Reverse Grip

At seven the builds diverge. (2 more extra points from Black Emporium potion and Dalish Tome)

Assassin First Build:
7. Mark of Death
8. Bloodlust
9. Pinpoint Strike
10. Assassinate
11. Enduring Mark
12. Devious Harm
13. Mark of Doom
14. Duelist: Parry + Throw the Gauntlet + Riposte
15. Evasive Maneuvers
16. Sure Strike
17. En Garde

Duelist First Build:
7. Parry
8. Throw the Gauntlet
9. wait...
10. Sure Strike + Evasive Maneuvers
11. Riposte
12. wait...
13. En Garde
14. Assassin: Mark of Death + Bloodlust + Pinpoint Strike + Mark of Doom
15. Devious Harm
16. Enduring Mark
17. Assassinate

Now, my thinking with either build is to end up at 41 dex for the best daggers and pump the rest into cunning, thus affording me extremely high defence with the +40-60% from Duelist talents. My problem is that this high defence is my justification for ignoring all of the Rogues crowd control and/or oh **** skills like stealth and evade, but if I go after the defence first I am worried about my damage output being rather substandard for so many levels, not to mention my stamina without bloodlust.

Having only played mage so far in DAII, this is all just theoretical, so any thoughts on my build or line of reasoning would be greatly appreciated.

[FellbyTheII]

I'm running a melee rogue myself. Your better off going for the CC skills in the general trees in my opinion, because it does more for the whole party, whereas the dodge only benefits you against basic attacks, and doesn't protect you from enemy skills/spells/AoEs (to the best of my knowledge)

[Tach Prime]

The damage is not the thing to worry about as your actually doing higher damage with more cunning being that almost all your attack abilities count as critical hits which cunning gives you the most damage with. The real worry is that in higher difficulties With out either AoE or Stealth type abilities to lower your threat level you will grow to much aggro, and tanks in this game don't have enough stamina to constantly taunt and keep enemies from swarming you. Dualist only benefits you in 1v1 attacks so getting surrounded will leave you dead quick without a way to either evade or lower your threat levels.

Modifié par Tach Prime, 11 mars 2011 - 07:26 .

[Tach Prime]

With my melee rouge (Since Scoundrel abilities were given to me cause of a accidental glitch for free.) I tend to go for archers first while the rest of my party keeps the regular thugs busy and once I grow enough aggro that everyone surrounds me, I remedy that by using Back to Back towards Aveline which gives me automatic stealth without spending any points in other stealth abilities. They will focus on her and then I can go back to Stabbing people from behind the thing my rouge is best at.

Modifié par Tach Prime, 11 mars 2011 - 07:33 .

[Prismo]

Tach Prime wrote...

The damage is not the thing to worry about as your actually doing higher damage with more cunning being that almost all your attack abilities count as critical hits which cunning gives you the most damage with. The real worry is that in higher difficulties With out either AoE or Stealth type abilities to lower your threat level you will grow to much aggro, and tanks in this game don't have enough stamina to constantly taunt and keep enemies from swarming you. Dualist only benefits you in 1v1 attacks so getting surrounded will leave you dead quick without a way to either evade or lower your threat levels.

I don't see how Duelist abilites only help you in 1v1 +40% defence is pretty significant, Isabella in my mages party generally sits in the high 60% defence range, I can see attaining 100% (or near enough) against normal enemies fairly easily, which would make being swarmed by non-magic normals a non issue. But I can see that threat mitigation is a pretty big hole in my build, will have to play around a bit more.

[Tach Prime]

What I meant is most of the benefits from Duelist are for 1v1 situations not that they are completely useless outside of that. I just meant that Only duelist specialty alone will not save you if you fight a mob with two the three rouges that back stab stun 1-hit you on nightmare.

[MetallicaRulez0]

I find the "Oh ****" skills, other than maybe Stealth or Evade, are better suited for your Mage party members. They can throw a quick Barrier or Heal on you to save you. 

I personally went full Assassin, then picked up Shadow for the 25% crit damage (no other points spent in Shadow). I ditched Backstab as soon as I got Assassinate and relied entirely on insane basic attack damage and big burst from Explosive Strike and Assassinate, aided by Pinpoint Strikes and Chain for ridiculous crit levels. My build is very boring, but it really shines in boss-type fights. I have great  Threat reduction and excellent sustained damage, but my burst ability is limited to 25/30s cooldowns. It's also relatively flimsy compared to a Duelist, but as long as threat isn't an issue, this doesn't matter much.

I agree with 41 Dex -> full Cunning. I put a few points in Cons in the middle of the game when I was having some survival issues, but towards the end Aveline's threat improved and I was able to respec out of that.

Modifié par MetallicaRulez0, 12 mars 2011 - 04:49 .

[Prismo]

Fair enough Tach.

After doing a bit more reading, especially Peter Thomas' responses in this thread, I found out that defence caps at 80% and that all special abilities can't miss and have thus been rethinking the value of the Duelist tree in general. At the very least I think I am going to go Assassin as my first spec.

[StingingVelvet]

I am mostly using Rush along with anything that stuns since I get 100% crits when enemies are stunned. I am also moving through the Duelist tree, it has a lovely backstab substitute that does more damage and from a greater distance, plus a lot of defense boosts.

Shadow and other stealth stuff I ignored, since I can just take a potion or get healed when I am in trouble (or Rush to a distant enemy).

[Rallion01]

I went Duelist first. I don't think it was ideal. I love Vendetta, but on the whole the Assassin tree is far more useful.

[Statisfaction]

Playing Hard just hit level 14

Duelist first worked well for me, the 20% defense makes Evade less of a requirement to stay alive.

[ickayR]

I like the build,since I'm oblivious as to which spec is better.

Question,what party do you role w/? I'm playing on nightmare & I don't know who to have. In terms of sheer compatible effectiveness,maybe another set for fun personalities. How are you building you party members,& what are their tactics?

[Kemine]

I finished the game with a melee rogue on normal since I prefer fun fast action instead of perma pausing.

Imo, you should/can rely on autoattack dmg with the occasional mark of death/vendetta/assassinate to pretty much kill any non-boss npc in the game in 2 seconds. Assassinate reached 10k dmg endgame at lvl 23.. ridicolous.

The duelist tree is pure awesomeness since the % bonuses just add on top of your base stats i.e. 60% +20% = 80% (and not 72% as you could assume). This is especially important against Elite and Bosses where your basestats are pretty low. I ended the game with 100% critchance, ~300% critdmg, capped attack/evade without using any ability. Dmg output and defense are so nice and with an aveline at your side you should even be able to tank any boss in the game without a problem.

In short, focusing on active buffs such as Precision and Parry combined with as much passive crit/defense/attack modifiers (unforgiving chain early game) is in my opinion far superior to any ability based build. Add to that for example Anders with Heroic Aura (best Aura in game imo) and Haste and you cut through them ennemies in no time.

Modifié par Kemine, 13 mars 2011 - 04:52 .

[MadDjinn]

I'm finding Shadow/assassin as a good build for my DW rogue. She's constantly flying around the battlefield wiping out archers, mob control (miasmic flask and upgraded evade are great when you have a tempest mage on hand + your warrior is slow to get anywhere)

Upgraded petrify + my DW rogue is usually enough to ripe an elite/boss apart. (the DW rogue is more likely to catch enemy mages between their protect/move/attack cycles)

Other than Miasmic Flask, I leave Sabotage alone. I'm sure there's nice CC in there, but it's less needed.
(Probably should take Power from specialists, but haven't seen the need yet)
Scoundrel - Blindside (120% damage if not the target) is great since the tank should have everyone's focus)
Scoundrel - Twist the knife (auto crits, but maybe less useful if you're already getting a high crit rate)
Scoundrel - back to back is perfect to jump in behind your mages to clear the enemies from them. or your tank once the archers/mages are dead.

Scoundrel - Follow through seems nice, but my DW rogue never seems to lose enough stamina to make it worth it. (I'm passive Talent heavy where possible)

Pretty much all of Subterfuge is good when used right. Chameleons Breath can be used on your mages to drop threats to them. or combo it with steath/Lingering shroud for 'free actions'. - Ie, pop a potion then go backstab.

for Shadow, I'm finding Disorienting Criticals and Shadow Veil very nice. One disorients when you crit from obfuscation and the other generates it every time you stealth. I'm pretty sure this also includes backstab/talents that jump you around. oh and more damage from crits can't be bad.

Otherwise, assassin seems to be the core DW Rogue tree given the +crit damage/cunning point.

[Prismo]

Now that I have actually started playing my Rogue my build has changed somewhat. Here is what I am doing/planning now:

1.    Miasmic Flask
2.    Backstab
3.    Precision
4.    Unforgiving Chain
5.    Explosive Strike
6.    Twin Fangs + Back to Back (First Tome)
7.    Assassin Spec: Mark of Death
8.    Bloodlust
9.    Pinpoint Strike
10.    Assassinate
11.    Enduring Mark
12.    Devious Harm
13.    Mark of Doom

Then at 14 I will respec full Assassin/Duelist and make sure I have the other two Tome/Potion skill points leaving me with 17 in total.

1.    Mark of Death
2.    Bloodlust
3.    Pinpoint Strike
4.    Assassinate
5.    Enduring Mark
6.    Devious Harm
7.    Mark of Doom
8.    Annihilate
9.    Throw the Gauntlet
10.    To the Death
11.    Parry
12.    Riposte
13.    En Garde
14.    Evasive Maneuvers
15.    Sure Strike
16.    Vendetta

I’ll save a point so I can get Blood Feud and Overkill at 16.

With the rest of my points I am thinking I will probably put points in Scoundrel; maybe get a few of the Dual Weapons skills back.

ickayR wrote...
Question,what party do you role w/? I'm playing on nightmare & I don't know who to have. In terms of sheer compatible effectiveness,maybe another set for fun personalities. How are you building you party members,& what are their tactics?

Right now I think I am going to stick with Aveline, Anders and Merrill. The skills I consider most important for Aveline: Shield Wall, Pommel Blow and Pummel so she can Stagger enemies whenever I need her to, Bellow, Second Wind, Elemental Aegis and the two fantasic passives in her Guardian tree, because I place emphasis on damage resistance I generally ignore cunning and go 41 str, a little in will and the rest in con. For the mages I favour full Primal, Winter's Blast and Deep Freeze, the rest of Anders points go into healing and Merrill will go Bloodmage with a bunch of sustains.

[jveenstra]

Don't you think you are missing out on quite a bit of potential damage by not getting blindside considering it it is 120% damage to any of the rogue's attacks?