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Poor David Gaider :(


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#151
Xaltar81

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Massadonious1 wrote...

Yes, opinions make me cringe too.


Please go troll another thread. These are peoples opinions, if you don't like them don't go to forums, guess what, all forums are opinionated. The game fails in many aspects, enjoying the game or not does not change many of them. The story and feel of the game is subjective but the glaring failings are present no matter how you view the game overall. Reused assets, random "bad guy" spawns that have no place in the story other than a few "we really should clean up the streets as night" comments. I mean seriously, you are a party of 4, all armed and all, I would assume by now fairly well known to be badass and they STILL attack you? Weaksauce. Now if you had something that some cartel wanted and they were mercenarys hired to kill you then thats a little better but generic thugs after your purse? Why would they even bother 20 of them risking thier lives for 4 purses?.

I won't get into comparisons with DA:O again, that seems to be a sore point for a lot of DA2 fans. Suffice it to say that even as a game that has nothing to do with the DA franchise this game fails on many levels. What the problem on the forums is though is that many people feel differently about said failings. Some enjoyed the game dispite them, others thought a lot of them were good things and others like myself could not see beyond them and enjoy the less fail elements. You are pretty much railroaded down the plot line in places then left to your own devices for long periods in between. Certain events are set in stone, only your reasons for doing them are up to you and while yes that can be kinda cool if done right, it really isn't in DA2. You are often left with the feeling of wtf? I tried to take the peacefull route and they attack me anyway with "insert lame disconnected reason".

The friend that let me play the game has since finished it and asked me if I wanted his copy seeing as he was so pissed with it he never wanted to see it again. I told him no and he proceded to throw it out of his 6th floor appartment window laughing that that was the most fun he had had with DA2. Now, my friend is a little extreme and has more money than sense but the fact remains that I didn't even want the game for free, come to think of it I sould have at least gotten his install key so I could register it and post on the "owners only boards" ah well, no big. There are many people who like the game, that doesn't make them idiots or simpletons, they have different tastes in what they want from thier games and that is fine. The people on these boards that I can't stand are the ones that continually bash those of us who don't think "DA2 is like the best game evah". We don't like it, will never like it and its not because we didn't give it a chance. I don't go around saying that people who like the game are stupid nor do I insult people who stand up for it so why do I keep finding myself having to defend my comments and my persona from what I can only call unprovoked rude attacks? I have catagoricly stated on many occasions that my comments are solely my own opinion yet less than 2 or 3 posts down find some misquote of something I said claiming I should stop stating my opinion as fact? Whats with that lol.

Anyway, I do like David's past work and hope he returns to better form for his next project and more importanly I hope he is given the creative freedom needed to tell a good story again.

Modifié par Xaltar81, 16 mars 2011 - 09:25 .


#152
Massadonious1

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Uh, that wasn't directed at you, but cool story anyway.

#153
Maria Caliban

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Xaltar81 wrote...

Fantasy has a formula...

What an astoundingly ignorant statement.

Do yourself a favor and read these books:
1. Alice in Wonderland
2. American Gods
3. Best Served Cold
4. The Book of the New Sun
5. The Forgotten Books of Eld
6. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell
7. The Onion Girl
8. The Orphan's Tales: In the Night Garden
9. Perdido Street Station
10. Perfume (by Patrick Süskind)

After reading these books, tell me what their formula is.

#154
Xaltar81

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

Fantasy has a formula...

What an astoundingly ignorant statement.

Do yourself a favor and read these books:
1. Alice in Wonderland
2. American Gods
3. Best Served Cold
4. The Book of the New Sun
5. The Forgotten Books of Eld
6. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell
7. The Onion Girl
8. The Orphan's Tales: In the Night Garden
9. Perdido Street Station
10. Perfume (by Patrick Süskind)

After reading these books, tell me what their formula is.


Your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, ignorance is not something you just randomly pin on someone because you don't agree with them, your comment is rude and uncalled for. I personally wouldn't classify a lot of the books you posted as fantasy but the definition of fantasy is just as subjective as enjoying the books themselves. I would hardly place any of those titles on the same shelf as LotR or Eddings or Jordan however and that is the "fantasy" story type I was refering to. Bare in mind that you can't read my mind, you can't know what I was thinking when I posted my comment. One can never completely put into words ones thaughts in a way that everyone will understand as you intended them. It is just common forum ettiquete to assume that you may have understood wrong or ask more politely what they mean. There is absolutely no need to be rude. I never stated my opinion as fact nor did I say that I felt everyone should subscribe to my way of thinking. And just for the record I could probably expand your list significantly as to books that don't follow a formula. My comment was a broad one not one meant as a hard fast rule that is never broken. Games and movies are limited in the amount of material that can be put in them, when dealing with such scenarios it is often best to take the more classical approach as it is the easiest for players/viewers to relate to. I never said that noone should try other approaches only that DA2 departed from this convention where DA:O subscribed to it. So in future try and understand the context of a comment before insulting it.

Modifié par Xaltar81, 16 mars 2011 - 10:17 .


#155
ankuu

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I personally love how Ser Gaider writes, he gives something to his characters that makes me love them on the spot. The only thing i would whine about is that i didn't get to see that much of Fenris. When Ser Gaider said he wanted to experiment more on Valen Shadowbreath i thought "Oh my! That's going to be epic!". But when i got in game i found out that Fenris is not as immersive as Valen...i wanted to talk to him more, i wanted to know him more. But no, i had to wait for his quests to pop out. And when they did i had to press on the heart options so i would be sure to have a romance with him...i would have chosen some other things like "What about your family?", because i was curious what he would do about that.

More freedom to the writers!

PS: Mary did a great job on Varric and Merrill. Adorable! They were my first party.

Modifié par ankuu, 16 mars 2011 - 11:44 .


#156
Lotion Soronarr

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Blame the Lead Designer(s), not DG. It's the lead designers who have the final word and who direct the course of the game.

#157
Alexus_VG

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

Fantasy has a formula...

What an astoundingly ignorant statement.

Do yourself a favor and read these books:
1. Alice in Wonderland
2. American Gods
3. Best Served Cold
4. The Book of the New Sun
5. The Forgotten Books of Eld
6. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell
7. The Onion Girl
8. The Orphan's Tales: In the Night Garden
9. Perdido Street Station
10. Perfume (by Patrick Süskind)

After reading these books, tell me what their formula is.


And what an astoundingly opinionated statment this is.

By what merit do any of these titles deserve to be used as an example. The only one that clasifies as a classic is the first and I don't recall actually ever having met amyone who finished Alice in Wonderland for fun. That by the way had some tipycal formula elements in it. Don't try to pass off your taste in reading material(which is obviously alternative fantasy) as a measure to judge classical storytelling elements.

#158
Cutlasskiwi

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I really enjoyed the story in DA2, much more than the story in DAO. I would pick a well written political struggle over a 'save the world' story every day of the week and so far I'm enjoying DA2 more than I did with DAO, but that's not only due to the story but it's a big part of why.

#159
Tripedius

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Don't get me started on the books, I could have said he should have stuck with designing games, but after DA2 I'm not sure anymore. The books are terrible. Very badly written.

#160
aftohsix

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cosgamer wrote...

If any of you are of a mind to read some of a dark, VERY adult novel (complete with 3D characters, lore, etc.) I'm working on and hoping to submit to a developer for a RPG, please take a look at Calasade:

http://aor.dreamwarestudio.com


I stand by my earlier statements...  TOOL.

By the by Gaider and his writing staff did one heck of a job writing a great story for DA2.  You'd see that if you played long enough to get midway through Act 2.

Modifié par aftohsix, 16 mars 2011 - 02:56 .


#161
bill4747bill

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I am a well read person, but I read for enjoyment. Any book that pleases me I will label 'well written' because reading enjoyment is what matters most to me.

There are many 'well written' books that I did not enjoy reading, and the reverse.

This was not directed at anyones specific post, I just felt the need to comment on what 'well written' might mean to different people.



For example, the short story linked below I consider to be brilliant. Will others agree? Probably not :)

Modifié par bill4747bill, 16 mars 2011 - 02:58 .


#162
Looper128

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No hate on Gaider, hes great.

#163
augustburnt

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Donkeycow wrote...

Well, he is still part of this disappointing product haha, i would not say he is blameless. That being said, from what i have seen of the story in DA 2 (about 6 hours in) it is not bad, but nor is it fully realized.

Edit:
Also Tom Bombadil did NOT need to be in the movies, he is a pointless character in the books lol

not to turn this off topic but bombadil was extremely relevant, he saves the hobbits lives and shows the hobbits that some 'people' can actually resist the ring.

#164
joriandrake

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ChrisBen wrote...

It's possible that there was a decent story buried somewhere in this game, but if it existed it was inundated with a veritable flood of unimportant and, frankly, boring sidequests, miniquests, what have you (tripe).


the worst are playing deliveryman the whole game long

#165
Guest_cosgamer_*

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aftohsix wrote...

cosgamer wrote...

If any of you are of a mind to read some of a dark, VERY adult novel (complete with 3D characters, lore, etc.) I'm working on and hoping to submit to a developer for a RPG, please take a look at Calasade:

http://aor.dreamwarestudio.com


I stand by my earlier statements...  TOOL.

By the by Gaider and his writing staff did one heck of a job writing a great story for DA2.  You'd see that if you played long enough to get midway through Act 2.


Finding a storyline to be flat makes me a tool?  Really?  Interesting.  I like a ton of authors...from Dickens to King and Clive Barker.  If someone doesn't like one of them, do I call them a tool?  No.

But I get a definite sense about you and your blind dedication to Bioware.

Is everything they put out great?  No.  Is everything they put out subpar?  No.

But DA 2 is.

#166
Il Divo

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Meh, I personally thought the story was a great and a vast improvement over the one-dimensional darkspawn of Origins. But that's just me.

#167
aftohsix

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cosgamer wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

cosgamer wrote...

If any of you are of a mind to read some of a dark, VERY adult novel (complete with 3D characters, lore, etc.) I'm working on and hoping to submit to a developer for a RPG, please take a look at Calasade:

http://aor.dreamwarestudio.com


I stand by my earlier statements...  TOOL.

By the by Gaider and his writing staff did one heck of a job writing a great story for DA2.  You'd see that if you played long enough to get midway through Act 2.


Finding a storyline to be flat makes me a tool?  Really?  Interesting.  I like a ton of authors...from Dickens to King and Clive Barker.  If someone doesn't like one of them, do I call them a tool?  No.

But I get a definite sense about you and your blind dedication to Bioware.

Is everything they put out great?  No.  Is everything they put out subpar?  No.

But DA 2 is.


No coming here and saying "David Gaider sucks at writing fantasy but hey check out my much better fantasy story" makes you a tool.

#168
Nashiktal

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Video games are amongst the hardest to write for. Much harder than for a movie or a T.V. series. I really respect video game writers, no matter the game.

(I don't respect suddenly switching out writers though, like this did from ME1-2.)

#169
Guest_cosgamer_*

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aftohsix wrote...

cosgamer wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

cosgamer wrote...

If any of you are of a mind to read some of a dark, VERY adult novel (complete with 3D characters, lore, etc.) I'm working on and hoping to submit to a developer for a RPG, please take a look at Calasade:

http://aor.dreamwarestudio.com


I stand by my earlier statements...  TOOL.

By the by Gaider and his writing staff did one heck of a job writing a great story for DA2.  You'd see that if you played long enough to get midway through Act 2.


Finding a storyline to be flat makes me a tool?  Really?  Interesting.  I like a ton of authors...from Dickens to King and Clive Barker.  If someone doesn't like one of them, do I call them a tool?  No.

But I get a definite sense about you and your blind dedication to Bioware.

Is everything they put out great?  No.  Is everything they put out subpar?  No.

But DA 2 is.


No coming here and saying "David Gaider sucks at writing fantasy but hey check out my much better fantasy story" makes you a tool.


I never said Gaider sucks at writing fantasy.  In fact, I have enjoyed a couple of his books.  Do I think DA 2 offers a flat storyline?  Yes.  That doesn't make Gaider a sucky writer, means he had a bad outing and what I found didn't interest me.  That happens to every writer.

#170
nightlordv

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The story in DA2 had no focus, no drive, and it never developed really well into anything that could have made a sense of urgency in the game. It was like "ok the templars and mages are mad at each other...prejudice and bigotry...blah blah...the pot is brewing and is about to blow up..." Much like this entire game the story was rushed and incomplete. Even on the side quests I could tell that some of them were just seemingly..abruptly cut short.
On my second play through it hit me even more at just how tedious and bland the whole main plot was. So Hawke becomes Champion...ok...didn't really feel like some big rise to it...and then no matter what decision you pick at the end the overall ending is the same. In fact, on my second play through I chose the other option i didn't pick in the first play through and the last couple of battles involved even MORE fighting and less work at the story then the first.
Heh, guess thats what happens when you have only a year and a half or so to write material for an RPG game...that isn't even an RPG anymore.

#171
Sidac

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Nashiktal wrote...

Video games are amongst the hardest to write for. Much harder than for a movie or a T.V. series. I really respect video game writers, no matter the game.


This!

Id love to see some of the people who claim the writing was worse than a children's book write a few scenes for the game. While the writing has been better, there have been far bigger blunders in the video game world.

#172
Iamnotahater

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My main issue with the game was as follows.

"It forced you to make stupid choices"

The Templar and Mage revolution presented the user with two BAD choices. Now I'm not inclined to believe that all choices that exist must ultimately lead to a good destination. But my Hawke seemed forced into the conflict.

What I really wanted to do was say "You two bastards fight it out and I'll stay neutral". Why wasn't this option provided? Likely because of the additional work it would have required to progress the storyline.

But the end result for the game (ie me) is that because Bioware presented with two unsympathetic sides, I'm stuck in a fight that I don't want or care about who wins.

"It rewarded you for making stupid choices in DAO"

For example if you freed sophia in wardens keep you would get additional armor/items. Not available otherwise. However, if killed the demon and left Avenus in charge of research you get nothing.

The same goes if you used the werewolves and put Bhelen in charge. Where the reward for making smart decisions?

"The graphics and Artwork were terrible"


One of the best thing about DAO was the menu 2D artwork. Why wasn't something similar used. The graphics were a joke. I have a 6970 graphics card and I felt cheated playing this game at max settings I much rather enjoyed the BAA and other older games graphics to that of DAII.

I downloaded 1GB worth of "ultra textures'. God they were a joke.I failed to notrce any difference whatsover and it came nowehere close to fixing the crappy graphics.

"The storyline was linear"

Not I'm not saying that linear storylines are bad. But DAII was supposed to be the successor to DAO which had a myriad of choices that you could make. Why couldn't I choose which party member to save? Bethany/Carver.

Why do I have zero impact on my party members choices like Anders?

It seemed like Hawke was along for the ride then anything and the extent of choice in the storyline was an alternate ending.

"The pacing of the game was way too fast"


Because the combat is way to fast, I often didn't have the opportunity to cast spells or buffs when I wanted to resulting in nothing more then tactical bots.

Is this the future of RPG's? No reactionary thought process whatsoever other? Just a bunch of if then statements?

Modifié par Iamnotahater, 16 mars 2011 - 06:00 .


#173
Darth Death

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I would imagine David not having absolute authority over the story, so naturally its inaccurate to pin the blame on him solely. But hey, its human nature is it not? You can't satisfy everyone.

#174
barenas

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Il Divo wrote...

Meh, I personally thought the story was a great and a vast improvement over the one-dimensional darkspawn of Origins. But that's just me.


I concur. I much prefer the grey lines that DA2 presented along with all of the political overtones of the game. I found Origins very cliche and one track minded.

#175
ankuu

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Darth Death wrote...

I would imagine David not having absolute authority over the story, so naturally its inaccurate to pin the blame on him solely. But hey, its human nature is it not? You can't satisfy everyone.


Isn't he credited as the Lead Writer? I might be mistaken tho. And no I am not trying to pin the blame on him, just saying.