294 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhatair]

So thank you Bioware, I both love you and hate you for making me care about your characters so much.

Well said. I've never played a game that got me so involved with my NPC companions.

[Estelindis]

Warning: wall of text incoming! 

The romance with Alistair affected me like no other relationship in any game (and I have played and loved all other Bioware games, including their romances - yes, like the OP, even Anomen).  Even when I was only about 20% of the way through the game, Alistair was already established for me as my favourite character from any game I have played.  And I'm not just talking about the romance.  The fact that he's your fellow Grey Warden and experiences the joys and sorrows of this whole epic journey with you - as well as his own wonderfully unique blend of humour, insecurity, and heroism - is what really singles him out.  But, as this thread is about his romance and its conclusion(s), I will confine my comments largely to that. 

Alistair's lampost conversation put a huge grin on my face - and still does, whenever I remember it.  His nervousness before asking to spend the night with my city elf was incredibly endearing.    The way he broke up with her after he became king felt like a literal punch in the gut.  His admission, at the very end, that he was wrong gave healing before inflicting a wound of a different kind.  His sacifice in killing the archdemon made the victory take like ashes. 

I really wish the final cutscene after his death had been different.  It angered and even offended me to have to watch that joyous party when all I could feel was my character's devastation.  She and I were in mourning together, but everyone else was celebrating!  Alistair got only the barest mention from Anora (that complex yet horrid cow).  My character could bring him up briefly with Wynne as well, but that was it.  I found the emotional dissonance absolutely unbearable, because if I had been allowed to choose what my character would really have said it would have pretty much amounted to "I feel like I died when he did."  (Though, in truth, my character did at least have Cyrion and Shianni and Soris to live for, which was a comfort.)

Anyway, that was all on my first playthrough of the endgame.  I've replayed the various choices since then, because I was desperately looking for some happier ending with Alistair.  Not making him king does mean he doesn't split up with my city elf (didn't "harden" him, and wasn't going to replay freaking Orzammar to do so, even assuming I liked the idea to begin with).  Not making him king also seems to be what he "really" wants - but since his heritage was revealed, I've felt, as David said, that this was more a question of self-esteem than anything else.  So I don't know if not making him king really does serve his highest personal good.  (Is the "hardening" really about self esteem too?  I thought it was more about how he saw the world.  Confusing.)  Add to that the tricks Anora pulls in various circumstances, from betraying the group to trying to have Alistair executed, and I don't know if I can really feel happy that supporting her is in the best interests of Ferelden.  At the final battle, I was certainly glad to be able to get the chance to save Alistair's life, though I wish I hadn't had to leave him at the Gate to do it.  It doesn't seem like a true Grey Warden choice, does it?  All three Wardens who remained needed to try to face the archdemon.  If one was left out, and the other two fell in the attempt - if the mission failed because of that - surely that falls short of the vaunted Grey Warden duty of self-sacrifice?  Surely that's actually a selfish decision on the part of the main character?

So, ultimately, I stand by my first set of decisions, even though they led Alistair to break up with my character and then sacrifice himself to save her.  (Hate the description of the Achievement that comes with that!  No, I did not command him to make the ultimate sacrifice!  I tried to stop him!)  I really do wish, though, was that the final scene after Alistair died would be more like a eulogy if a character really loved him - like the eulogy the Warden gets herself if she makes that ultimate sacrifice.  Because she certainly felt like she was at a funeral during that celebration.  (And, if he was king, it should have been more recognised than in was at the end - even if he was uncrowned.  His first and last act, as he said at the end, was the greatest thing he could do for his people.)  I know that the game is supposed to be about the PC...  But the connection that I felt with his character was just so strong that the happy ending felt like a horrible farce.

I also thought that the question of whether or not the archdemon-slaying sacrifice simply kills the Warden, or actually destroys their soul, was somewhat glossed over.  The loadscreens said the soul would be destroyed.  The in-game dialogue, near as I could tell, only spoke of death.  (Presuming that souls really do go to the Fade, and that going to the Fade is desirable.)  I mean... not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of people die in the final battle.  *A lot.*  (That's another part of what makes all that "hero of Ferelden" stuff nauseating to me, btw.  So many people give so much.)  If it's simply a question of life or death for a Warden, it is not so great a sacrifice as Morrigan intimates when she makes her offer; frankly, I believe that to think otherwise is immensely egotistical.  If the final blow really meant a soul's end, though, that's something else.  That particular sacrifice genuinely is asked of no one else.  I could see Alistair and my character stuggling against each other, at the end of the final battle, to be the one to give the final blow - and, whatever the outcome, it would be a mingling of victory and loss for both of them.  Or, alternatively, they could have plunged the sword in together - and if they both were lost, or just one or the other, it would be fate that chose.  (Perhaps that seems a cop-out for a role-playing game - particularly considering how freedom is such a noble thing - but even to do that is a choice, no?)

This game has really torn me up.  I'm quite close to tears writing this.  As others here have said: I both love you and hate you, Bioware.  You created something amazing.  But, damn it, you tore my heart out in the process.  Even if it would be a different game from what you actually made, I have to say that a part of me just wants a happy ending.  And no, not the one Morrigan offered.  On that subject... I didn't just refuse it because I felt it would have been a betrayal if my character persuaded Alistair to sleep with her - though I certainly did feel that way.  (There's something of a gender divergency on this subject, I think; I have my doubts that people's thoughts and feelings would be the same if a male PC had to persuade their obviously unwilling female romantic partner to sleep with another man in a magic ritual.  The threat hanging over them is a powerful force of coercion, and I consider the whole thing dangerously close to rape.  But many people seem to think that men "cannot" be raped by women.  Mind you, I think there was also a gender split in the origin story, if you went male or female City Elf.  A male character's betrothed survives, but a female character's does not.  Clearly, women are "supposed" to be rescued by men - or the men die trying - but not men by women.)  Sorry, I digress.  Anyway, the question of Morrigan's intrusion in a loving relationship is not the only issue.  If she could be trusted about the whole thing, the saving of an old god from the taint (and who knows how it was really tainted in the first place?) might be something worth doing, even without the reward of saving one's own life or soul.  Even at the cost of intimacy!  (We don't know enough about the old gods to be really sure; it's worth some reflection.)  But, in spite of being at 100% approval with Morrigan when she made her offer, and having felt a real sense of closeness to her at many points in the game, my character could not possibly trust that this ritual would lead to the good she claimed.  During the alienage slavery quest, my character lost approval with Morrigan for refusing to *sacrifice her own father in a blood magic ritual*.  Morrigan recommended it, even though it was quite obvious from the dialogue up to that point that the elves who had been taken were important to my character, and they included her father, the elder of her village, and her cousin's wife.  (I found out what happened to Valendrian, btw, but never what happened to Valora.  Does anyone know this?)  Anyway, when Morrigan recommended that blood sacrifice of kin for power...  "The Grey Warden disappoves -100" would sum up my reaction fairly well.  Add this to the fact that Morrigan knew the entire time that a Warden would have to die, and didn't tell the PC ("Would you have believed me?" is a weak excuse once you have become true friends, frankly)... and that the ritual was Flemeth's plan, and Morrigan now knows not to trust Flemeth's wishes for herself as far as she can throw them (unless things are really twisted and Flemeth is now Morrigan in spite of it all, or something similarly baroque)...  I just don't see why I'd trust what she said about what the ritual would do.  The whole situation is sub-optimal, but I don't see how the hidden price is better than the clear one, horribly painful as the clear one is.

To round things off, I agree that Alistair's outrage when Riordan suggests Loghain joins the Wardens is perfectly in-character.  For someone taken completely aback - he couldn't have seen it coming - and pushed to his very limits, he makes some extremely cutting and well-put responses.  ("Have you forgotten how him being such a great general didn't help at Ostagar?" - not an exact quote - has to be my favourite.)  But, without venturing into fairytale land (I hope), I would have liked some more things for the PC to say and do at this point.  Frankly, considering that my character had been conscripted to the Wardens after killing a large number of men, including an arl's son, she could have quite legitimate reasons for arguing that joining the Wardens can be an alternative to conventional punishment.  Alistair would be free to argue that what had happened to her was an injustice, whereas what he wanted for Loghain was justice, and I think she could have settled for that.  I would have also liked the option for the PC to point out that he had fought alongside Sten, who had murdered *children*.  I'm not sure what he might have said to that.  Another option would have been that, once it got to the point where Alistair says he'll take the crown if that's what he must do to ensure Loghain meets justice, you can answer that he doesn't have it do that - go ahead and kill Loghain, if he must, but take the crown only for the right reasons.  Alternatively, if my character had named Anora queen solely to save Loghain's life, only to have Anora abruptly demand Alistair's execution... when Anora only had the crown due to my PC's support and *knew* my PC loved Alistair... frankly, I would have liked the option to tell the whole Mac Tir clan to jump off a cliff and say that Alistair and I were going to take our forces, look for the archdemon, and deal with it ourselves.  Considering that Alistair can dump you and you can still be friends afterwards - he can even go on to admit that he still loves you, and die for you - I think that my PC should have been able to do something that hurt him badly and then regain his trust.  Or we could have just stayed angry at each other, but working together.  This might not be a very good idea from a game-design point of view (linearity in general with the maximum illusion of choice along the way being optimal), but I don't regard it as beyond the pale in terms of things that could actually happen.  (Don't know what the status of the assembled army would be then, mind you.  Would Anora and Loghain have been rather unthrilled by the idea of such a force following the PC and Alistair and plunged things even further into chaos, leading to our ultimate doom?  The knowledge of what subsequently happens in Denerim makes the Landsmeet relatively unimportant in retrospect, so I am probably missing something very obvious about the whole "land needs to be united under one ruler" thing.  And I realise the archdemon hasn't yet emerged at this point in the story, but we know it's out there somewhere.)  Anyway, what I don't fully understand about Alistair leaving is not that he objects to fighting alongside Loghain - *of course* he does - but that he turns away from the battle with the archdemon and the darkspawn because of that.  I'm *guessing* it's a combination of the following: 1) he took an oath to help defend ordinary people from the Blight, not to help ruthless traitors; 2) he's effectively being banished by the queen, who would prefer him dead and certainly doesn't want him staying around in Ferelden; 3) he is so incredibly hurt that his fellow Grey Warden could make a choice like this, knowing how many of his loved ones Loghain's actions had imperilled or destroyed, and in front of the assembled Landsmeet.  Yet... he still has a duty to fight the darkspawn.  That hasn't ended.  I guess he is only human, though, and everyone breaks if they are pushed beyond certain limits.  Or maybe he just can't see the duty he swore to carry out in what is presented to him then, and from his point of view it's the world that had broken rather than him.  (His "ask for a pound of my flesh or all the gold in Orlais" line rather points towards this, I think.  It totally wrenched my heart when I tried this tactic and he said that.  He looked and sounded to be in utter anguish.)
 
Enough for now.  Suffice it to say, OP, I agree with you.  And, to Bioware: the choices faced in conjunction with the Alistair romance were difficult.  Hats off to you for that.  Unlike the usual trio of shiny-good, mercenary, and evil-jerk "choices," this required actual and extremely torturous thought.  Just... don't be surprised if people complain a bit.  Torture does hurt, you know, even if Riordan's pretty magnanimous about the whole thing. 

Modifié par Estelindis, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[Badpie]

You know it's interesting that this is the PC's story.  I never felt that way.  I felt the PC was a tool that was used in order to tell ALISTAIR'S story - one of the oldest stories in the books - that of the wayward king returning to the throne, etc.

They couldn't really make a game where you played Alistair for many reasons so they had to have the PC.  But ultimately I really do feel like the majority of the whole underlying theme of the game is all about Alistair and his fate.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Ya know, I have a severe Mancrush on Alistair. I'm not gay for him but I see a lot of myself and/or qualities I revere in my fellow manlings so after my second playthrough I was determined to get him laid as that is what should happen to guys of his caliber. Laid, a ****ing lot.



So enter Rose, my redheaded firebrand rogue with a love of stabbing things. She immediately goes about seducing and loving the hell out of Alistair. So I wasn't taken by surprise when Morrigan offers her naughty choice. I consulted my wife and our redheaded girlfriend who Rose was based off of and they agree that to save their man, they would let a swamp witch bed him for a night.



As for the king thing... Rose seemed like the girl that wanted her man happy, especially if there was a pawn off option for duty. So she supported Anora to make Alistair happy. Anora is a good ruler and Alistair is constantly being forced to do things he doesn't want to do. Why henpeck him? Seriously, the entire game has a hard on for bullying that poor man. So I freed him from being king, endured a swamp witch touching him, and then snickered with him about meeting him upstairs later.



And by I, I totally mean Rose. I'm not gay for Alistair. >_>

[Greenphrog]

They couldn't really make a game where you played Alistair for many reasons so they had to have the PC. But ultimately I really do feel like the majority of the whole underlying theme of the game is all about Alistair and his fate.[/quote]

Yes to some extent.

But it is your choice, as to how that story is written. So the story may be about him, BUT like any good story its how the story is told (and that would be the PC) that matters. I don't think anyone would buy a game that goes: Allstair is xxxxxx, the end.

Allistair is by far the most interesting character so far for me. And it just shows what a good job Bioware did that any of us are even writing any of this. (And that's not even to mention all the other "I love" "I hate" NPC).

My own experience was that he was my characters best friend. I had to push him to be king because I just knew he would be good at it. It was heartwarming when I had to promise to be there to help. I saved his life in the end. Not because I like the choices given me to do that, but because I could do no less.

I think it's great that you are forced to make choices that are not optimal. It makes the game a much more interesting experience.

[Bootsykk]

Alistair, in my opinion, isn't really the 'perfect man' everyone seems to make him out to be.



He's very insecure, has a fear of leading, dislikes responsibility, and in a relationship is totally and completely whipped. He never makes a decision for himself without consulting you, and doesn't ever object to your will unless you decide to spare loghain.

That was what really made me start to dislike him as a romanceable character. Despite his devotion to the grey wardens, his 'we're in this together' act, and his determination to stop the blight, suggesting that you add another powerful, brilliant grey warden to your forces causes him to throw a complete hissy fit, toss aside all of his so-called morals and abandon the wardens entirely. He doesn't even stick around to try and protect ferelden, its like suddenly because he can't avenge Duncan by killing loghain he's going to stomp all over his promise to fight the blight for Duncan.



Alistair is more of a character that seems like a brother--immature, whiney, grouchy, but a good sense of humor, a gentle heart and puppydog affection. But of course, since he is a virgin and he is bashful and gives roses to explain how beautiful women are, he is the "perfect man"

[Roxlimn]

I liked the least about him was his complete and utter hypocrisy. Despite supposedly being driven by duty to abandon me, er, my elven avatar; he can't see past his own thirst for vengeance to see that we need as many Grey Wardens as possible to deal with the Darkspawn threat. I can tolerate his abandoning ME, but to abandon Ferelden (and the woman he loves, the friends he travels with, and organization he calls family) to the Archdemon simply because his vengeance was thwarted betrays everything he ever said that was good and true.



It would have been more in-character if he tolerated it with a huge negative for the PC, and an in-game proviso that you can't put Alistair and Loghain in the same team. I think it's a little weird that you have to "harden" Alistair to get him to commit to his views and duties. In my opinion, the BASE Alistair should tolerate your decisions if they're for the good of Ferelden, and it's the "bad" Alistair that should want his vengeance above all other considerations.



It would certainly make more dramatic impact if you knew that it was YOUR fault that Alistair changed, and that it make him into a worthless drunk.

[missbadexample]

Alistair is more of a character that seems like a
brother--immature, whiney, grouchy, but a good sense of humor, a gentle
heart and puppydog affection. But of course, since he is a virgin and
he is bashful and gives roses to explain how beautiful women are, he is
the "perfect man"

Good lord, if that's the requirements for a "perfect man", I'm concerned.

I think Alistair's incredibly winning point is how endearing he is. Would you kick a puppy made of rainbows? If
you did, you'd be pretty damn evil. Being cruel to Alistair is tough,
because he gives you that impression - one of heartbreak or sadness.
His romance is sweet, because he is surging with emotion but finds it
difficult to express -- hence him deflecting questions with jokes, etc.

Personally, I think I would
find Alistair annoying as hell in real life. However, given the fact
I'll never fight Darkspawn in a crowded dwarven tunnel by the age of 30 (thank god) he really feels like a ray of sunshine in an otherwise fairly bleak world.

And despite his rose speech/gift, it really was a lovely moment. Total cheese (he'd like that), but again, endearing. I liked Zevran just as well, his character was interesting. But the game fleshed out Alistair a bit more, which is why I think
everyone went nuts for him. Doesn't hurt that he was voiced by an
amazing actor. Can you imagine Alistair with.. I dunno.. Nicholas
Cage's voice? I'd want to punch him every step of the journey.

Considering in previous games with romance options, I picked BISHOP of all people to try and woo (Casavir? Bawww I'm a paladin) and was bummed out when he was all "lol tricked" towards the end. So having an incredibly likeable character being romancable "all the way" was a refreshing change of pace.

[missbadexample]

Ok, why the crap does it break up my post like that?

[ekkaja.marta]

Badpie wrote...

You know it's interesting that this is the PC's story.  I never felt that way.  I felt the PC was a tool that was used in order to tell ALISTAIR'S story - one of the oldest stories in the books - that of the wayward king returning to the throne, etc.

They couldn't really make a game where you played Alistair for many reasons so they had to have the PC.  But ultimately I really do feel like the majority of the whole underlying theme of the game is all about Alistair and his fate.

I’ve never felt that Alistair’s fate was a key part of the story. But I guess it depends on the
perspective you get to this with your origin and how much you care about the kingdom of Ferelden.

In my case, to a Dalish the whole issue with who will rule Ferelden was another internal
problem, my PC accidentally (by becoming Grey Warden) got involved into. Like in
Orzammar, where you support one of the sides. Only this time it is your
beloved, who never wanted to become a king. I thought – why make him – if all
he wants is to be a Grey Warden, and Anora seemed capable enough to rule the
human kingdom.

I think the game does a great job by allowing you to take and justify different decisions
that seem truly reasonable for the PC, based on his/hers origin. (I can imagine
my completely different motivation in making Alistair a king if I played a
noble).

I really liked the perspective the Dalish origin gave me in this matter, because it allowed
me to cherish my happy ending where we both stayed alive and together with Grey
Wardens.

Modifié par ekkaja.marta, 05 décembre 2009 - 02:06 .

[Savvy30039]

I don't know about this "perfect man" sentiment, but I think Bioware will be hard pressed to make a more successful romance that with Alistair. Why?

Because comedy, I feel, has always been Bioware's strong point. I mean everybody loves Minsc and Deekin right? And characters that are pure drama often get a negative reaction from the fan base. "The character is expressing emotion?! What a whiner!" <_<

So here we have Alistair's character, which makes use of that great humor, wraps it up in a realistic layer of insecurity, and tops it off with an important storyline bow. It's not that I like his romance because it makes me want to fix him, I like his romance because it makes me want to get to know him. It's just... natural. It wasn't until I had played forty or so hours of the game that it throws me potentially romance ruining choices, after I had already become incredibly attached and too determined to give him up. Of course Alistair isn't perfect, because perfect characters are boring.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I had no problems. For starters, Alistair constantly repeats he does NOT want to be king, and thus, out of love and selfishness, I pick Anora as queen. I always let him kill Loghain. Loghain is a menace, he needs to die. I tried the king/queen route once, and it wasn't nearly as satisfying as non-king queen, and instead, the ending involved the two of us running off and rebuilding the grey wardens together, happily ever after or whatever.



Anora might be a ****, but alas, you have the choice. Personally, if a character is in love with Alistair, not making him be king is actually the nicest option, since thats the one that has his happieness as the highest priority.



The only thing I feel was short changed for females is the lack of an option for carrying on a romance with both Zev and Alistair, where as males can persuade leliana to accept a three-way relationship. But beyond that, I thought it was all great. And the fact that it is so realistic, including the possibilities and realities of heartbreak....



Its a gem, in my opinion.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I had no problems. For starters, Alistair constantly repeats he does NOT want to be king, and thus, out of love and selfishness, I pick Anora as queen. I always let him kill Loghain. Loghain is a menace, he needs to die. I tried the king/queen route once, and it wasn't nearly as satisfying as non-king queen, and instead, the ending involved the two of us running off and rebuilding the grey wardens together, happily ever after or whatever.

Anora might be a ****, but alas, you have the choice. Personally, if a character is in love with Alistair, not making him be king is actually the nicest option, since thats the one that has his happieness as the highest priority.

The only thing I feel was short changed for females is the lack of an option for carrying on a romance with both Zev and Alistair, where as males can persuade leliana to accept a three-way relationship. But beyond that, I thought it was all great. And the fact that it is so realistic, including the possibilities and realities of heartbreak....

Its a gem, in my opinion.

...

I think I love you in that platonic, totally don't need a restraining order kind of way. Thank you for understanding that Wynne was right. Love is selfish but it is also giving. If you love somebody, set them free. Set Alistair free from the bull**** that has haunted him from DAY ONE.

But yea, I like you.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

...

I think I love you in that platonic, totally don't need a restraining order kind of way. Thank you for understanding that Wynne was right. Love is selfish but it is also giving. If you love somebody, set them free. Set Alistair free from the bull**** that has haunted him from DAY ONE.

But yea, I like you.

Awww, thanks! Sends the platonic non-restraining order love right back at ya!

But yes. When playing a character that either romanced or had a friendship with him, I felt it was actually cruel to thrust him into kingship, especially when there is an alternative that really isn't horrid. Love is selfish, and causes us to do rash things regardless of consequence, but without it, would we really be human?

Besides, what would the people of Fereldan think upon waking up one winter morning to discover their king stuck to a lampost by his tounge out in front of the royal palace?

[HarlequinDream]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

...

I think I love you in that platonic, totally don't need a restraining order kind of way. Thank you for understanding that Wynne was right. Love is selfish but it is also giving. If you love somebody, set them free. Set Alistair free from the bull**** that has haunted him from DAY ONE.

But yea, I like you.

Awww, thanks! Sends the platonic non-restraining order love right back at ya!

But yes. When playing a character that either romanced or had a friendship with him, I felt it was actually cruel to thrust him into kingship, especially when there is an alternative that really isn't horrid. Love is selfish, and causes us to do rash things regardless of consequence, but without it, would we really be human?

Besides, what would the people of Fereldan think upon waking up one winter morning to discover their king stuck to a lampost by his tounge out in front of the royal palace?

Plus what strikes me is that Alistair tells you in Lothering (actually, tells Morrigan, but you can hear him) that he prefers to follow. She mocks him for deferring to a new recruit, and he dismisses it.

Knowing that about him, it DOES seem cruel to force him into a position where he would have to lead (alone, if you're not a noble), knowing he doesn't want it.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

...

I think I love you in that platonic, totally don't need a restraining order kind of way. Thank you for understanding that Wynne was right. Love is selfish but it is also giving. If you love somebody, set them free. Set Alistair free from the bull**** that has haunted him from DAY ONE.

But yea, I like you.

Awww, thanks! Sends the platonic non-restraining order love right back at ya!

But yes. When playing a character that either romanced or had a friendship with him, I felt it was actually cruel to thrust him into kingship, especially when there is an alternative that really isn't horrid. Love is selfish, and causes us to do rash things regardless of consequence, but without it, would we really be human?

Besides, what would the people of Fereldan think upon waking up one winter morning to discover their king stuck to a lampost by his tounge out in front of the royal palace?

Awesome *e-hugs*
Definitely, it seemed cruel and very much against the whole "Stand by your man" ideal that the two women I based those girls on were advocating. Both were like, If I'm going to love him, I'm going to love him.

[HarlequinDream]

I admit, I forced the kingship on him my first playthrough, and he promptly dumped my mage...



And then, looking back, I couldn't blame him. He told her "I don't want to be king" and... She's a mage. So this time... My elf (who does believe in being selfish) is going to love him, put Anora on the throne to keep Alistair for herself, and then agree with Morrigan about the ritual to keep Alistair and her together.

[Servant of Nature]

I am not sure where the perfect man thing is coming from either. Alistair is full of flaws, so is everyone. The point is to accept said flaws as part of them. My first playthrough, I was devastated to learn that one of us had to die, my elf was on the fearful side, timid and quite easily bossed around, but she did love Alistair with all her heart, and couldn't bear the thought of living without him... so I was totally set to let her die for Ferelden. Then we put the smackdown on the Archdemon, the cutscene arrives... "Good thing I'm not letting you have a choice, then." WHAT?! I saw the cutscene.. saw him running towards the Archdemon, I just remember wishing there was an option to bullrush tackle him, smack him in the temple with his own sword and finish it myself.



I was so sad. I couldn't even register what happened for a time, I just sat there with my mouth open, tears forming in my eyes, trying to figure out what just happened. I wanted to play the game over again just to stop that from happening... I was mourning, and I think the thing that frustrated me more than anything was the total disregard for Alistair's death. Wynne's the only one who you can even mention it to, and even then she hardly says anything. Nothing about my character losing the man she loved, nothing about his sacrfice. It was terrible.



That being said, the emotional trauma of that ending has inspired me to write about Camilia's life afterword... it influenced the boon she asked for and what she did afterwords as well. Normally she would have asked for freedoms for her people, and stayed with them... after what happened to Alistair, she demanded that his sacrifice not be forgotten (even though it did within minutes of saying that apparently) and went on to serve the Wardens the rest of her life, trying to do some sort of honor to his memory. I think, in the end, it was more... she didn't have the courage to kill herself, so she would die fighting darkspawn as a Warden should.



Honestly, the ending was so unexpected, so hurtful... I can do nothing but commend BioWare for it... I've never been so emotionally attached to a character before, and that utterly ripped my heart out. Alistair saying "I love you. Always." gives me chills every. damn. time. Writing for him and his voice acting is a perfection of 'flaws'. I love how imperfect he and the other party members are.

[Savvy30039]

I had originally planned to make Anora queen actually, hence why she supported me in the Landsmeet. But when Alistair took up the crown when he feared Loghain would be spared, he proved he had enough determination to be king. And then he broke up with me right after, so I knew he could take charge. I seemed kingly enough to me in that little encounter, so that changed my decision. Of course, my character was nevertheless a selfish creature, so being queen was a plus too.

[Roxlimn]

It's cruel to ask him to be King.



But it's also his duty. It was also his duty to lead your party, since he was the senior Grey Warden. For all his talk of duty, he sure does a lot of shirking. Lots of people find his shyness and whining cute. I don't. I find it annoying. I get it, you're hurt. SO WAS I. As a noble, your entire family is dead before his and this is not only your entire blood family, but also your estate, future, and nearly everything else in your life ruined.



Do you whine about it? No. And he has the gall to ask you whether or not you've lost something like a father figure when he knows very well the circumstances of your recent joining? What a jerk. He's far too self-absorbed to commiserate with you over your losses - he can't be very good long-term relationship material.



The only reason it isn't a good idea to get him to own up to his duties is because he'd probably terrible at them - so aside from being a whiny self-absorbed jerk, he's also incompetent at his obligations.



Wow. What a catch.