294 réponses à ce sujet

[Never]

"(BTW: Duncan is also hot. Long live the beard.)"

Agreed.

[Haasth]

Savvy30039 wrote...

Spoilers galore. Seriously, don't read if you haven't beaten the game. It's a long post anyway.

[...]

So thank you Bioware, I both love you and hate you for making me care about your characters so much.

I must agree with you. BioWare has done a great job, and the fact that it made you love them and hate them when chasing through the Alistair relationship is a good thing. It means their story has an impact. Sadly two out of four relationships have a rather bad ending. I personally chased the Morrigan relationship with my Mage which ends rather bittersweet as well. Probably better than having the other dying however, as I still have a certain hope that I can track her down in coming DLC.

But indeed, BioWare has done a great job.

[Nhani]

Alistair.. what can I do but agree?

I was actually trying to actively resist him being anything more than a friend on my first playthrough because, hey - he was a tall, silly human! He wouldn't know one stone from another if you so threw them at him! But he snuck up on me, the bastard - I'll never forgive him for that ;(

Or well, I guess I'll have to. I suspected he'd call it off after being named king. As fun as it was having a human (half) prince and a dwarven (exiled) princess matching together, it felt like it was doomed to fail somewhere along the way - whenever the reality of the world post-blight would come crashing down.

I actually felt oddly proud of him when he rose to the challenge and spent his short tenure as a king being - in my opinion - so much more a king than his half-brother ever seemed to be. And strongly exclaims that killing the Arch Demon is his duty, rather than mine. And so he died the warrior king in shining armor protecting the land he held dear and the dwarven princess he loved.

While I'll admit I rather liked Carth and Kaidan both (blame Raphael Sbarge, perhaps), Alistair kindof blew both of them away with high-powered explosives.

So yes, agreed. Bioware has done well.

Edit: Quick-reply seems to mess up my paragraph spacing ;(

Modifié par Nhani, 16 novembre 2009 - 01:05 .

[yohoia]

I really wish there will be a mod with an alternate ending for the romance with Alistair.
And I really want Duncan as a romance partner too

[pmalygris]

Devlen12 wrote...

Do you think the catholic church alows Nun-Bard-Assassins? I might start going to service again!

Absolutely, they have ninja's in the vatican.. dressed like nuns but ninja's never the less.


mal

I took the hit with my guy and let Alistair be king, It was the only way I felt good about it.

[Haasth]

imported_beer wrote...

The man or woman who makes a mod to alter the Alistair romance path such that pc's who loveth him do not have to WATCH him copulate with Morrigan or DIE...will be treated like a GOD for as long as these forums shall exist.

Decades from now, when we are all doddering idiots, we will still say...remember that dude/dudette who made Alistair okay with Loghain joining with a high persuade? The guy/gal who made it possible for PC's to get Loghain to shag Morrigan instead? That person was a GOD.

So anyone who wants the ever lasting worship of a bunch of wimmins should get crackin' on that one. Just sayin'. Or maybe Bioware will take pity and at least make it so that we don't have to see the Morrigan climbing over Alistair cutscene. Sheesh.

If only I had those l33t modding skills...

Modifié par Haasth, 16 novembre 2009 - 03:21 .

[Lianaar]

I don't know. It would take away from the game to alter things like that for me. What I love in the game is that the characters are real. They were born in the fantasy of someone and are well thought through. There is an autentic reading to them, which is ONE reading and it is coded into the game. Everything else is a perception and that Alistair, the modded one would just not be the Alistair that was born.



For me at least it would feel like tearing out the last page of a book to write it my way.

[Flamin Jesus]

Haasth wrote...

imported_beer wrote...

The man or woman who makes a mod to alter the Alistair romance path such that pc's who loveth him do not have to WATCH him copulate with Morrigan or DIE...will be treated like a GOD for as long as these forums shall exist.

Decades from now, when we are all doddering idiots, we will still say...remember that dude/dudette who made Alistair okay with Loghain joining with a high persuade? The guy/gal who made it possible for PC's to get Loghain to shag Morrigan instead? That person was a GOD.

So anyone who wants the ever lasting worship of a bunch of wimmins should get crackin' on that one. Just sayin'. Or maybe Bioware will take pity and at least make it so that we don't have to see the Morrigan climbing over Alistair cutscene. Sheesh.

If only I had those l33t modding skills...

Worship rarely leads to sex... Just sayin'...

[LeandraNyx]

imported_beer wrote...

The man or woman who makes a mod to alter the Alistair romance path such that pc's who loveth him do not have to WATCH him copulate with Morrigan or DIE...will be treated like a GOD for as long as these forums shall exist.

Decades from now, when we are all doddering idiots, we will still say...remember that dude/dudette who made Alistair okay with Loghain joining with a high persuade? The guy/gal who made it possible for PC's to get Loghain to shag Morrigan instead? That person was a GOD.

So anyone who wants the ever lasting worship of a bunch of wimmins should get crackin' on that one. Just sayin'. Or maybe Bioware will take pity and at least make it so that we don't have to see the Morrigan climbing over Alistair cutscene. Sheesh.

^  THIS.

Someone get on top of that.  I'm waiting to offer incense and garland your statue with sweetly perfumed flowers.

[Majspuffen]

My ending with Alistair was bugged. Even though I put the queen on the throne, the game still acted like Alistair was going to be made King. Sad, didn't get a proper ending, but I'll replay the game with the same character so I know what choices I'll avoid.

Also, it really, really sucks that you can't talk Alistair out of sacreficing himself. I wanted my character to take the killing blow since she never mentioned anything about Morrigans scheme to Alistair. But I couldn't talk him out of it, and he gets himself killed, and I earn the achievmement "COMMANDED Alistair to sacrefice himself". That pissed me off. Unless the dragon age dictionary states that command means begging someone, but failing.

Otherwise, up to the landsmeet, I think the relationship with Alistair was great. Wish they'd put some more work to it though.

[Yorleen]

Lianaar wrote...

For me at least it would feel like tearing out the last page of a book to write it my way.

I do not agree on this bit: a book has only one ending but a RPG can have several ones... Adding new ones wouldn't mean taking away the existing ones, it would just mean more possibilities and I believe the more choices, the better. So these who like tragic endings would have theirs and these who prefer another path shall have theirs too...

I'll keep taking notes as I progress towards the end of the game... Ideas of full dialogs to add, or some more dialogs options or else... If other players are doing this as well, I believe it may be interesting to discuss it... If we had some ideas that would totally fit the game, maybe we may present them to Bioware?

[Lianaar]

Alistair is a personality of his own. If we change the ending we force him to react in a way that was not his original personality. Given the choices you make that is how he reacts. You made your choices and he made his reactions.



I wouldn't mind seeing more everyday conversations with the pcs. Some of the convos that takes place between the npcs should be possible amongst people too. It would be nice to talk more with him eg after the Dalish camp, he could surely ask how I found the decision I made and so on. But it would be difficult to fit in things consistently.



I am not saying writing a mod that makes it a happy ending is wrong. I only claim for me it would feel forced and unautentic to his personality. My preference lies with his integrity.

[Yorleen]

I see what you mean but seeing how devoted he is to the PC right now (I've not finished the game yet), just how genuine looks their love, it's hard to believe he would just forsake her to become king if she is an elf (I understand she could be his mistress, how "nice" is this... )... especially since at some point, when he declares furthermore his love for her, she can ask if the fact she's an elf doesn't matter and he answers that it doesn't change a thing...

[Lianaar]

We are warned throughout the game this end is coming. At least I was. Over and over again it comes up in dialoges that Wardens have a duty, he is dutyfull. Winne is very explicite, she says: you will one day have to chose between love and duty. You are a Grey Warden, you live for others. Even if you are forced into it, Alistair became a Warden by his own choice. He believes in the values of duty and honor and all those things.



Even he has told me in conversations that we might not have the luxury of being together for ever and ever. And he has already addressed the issue of heirs, even though I am far away from land's meet. Morrigan has asked him if grey wardens are allowed to be together at all, seeing how that might be an obstacle in their way of doing what they are meant to be. And asks him how he'll chose if he has to between love and duty. He answers only that such choice won't come up.



He is a hero and he believes in his values. Why would he desert them? He wouldn't be the Alistair that was shown to me.



I of course do not know if there are options to alter his personality as I didn't try to romance him with different personalities on my side



But I do understand that some people play for light-hearted fun and the option of losing the love of your char's life isn't falling under the everything is fine at least in this game category. I just believe it might be much better to make a mod which has a totally new character to provide for a happy ending story then to tweak this one.

[Yorleen]

When you speak again to Wynne, she will tell you she was maybe wrong about the PC's relation with Alistair... I don't exactly remember her words but she says something like he seems to be more sure of himself (afair, something like this - damn memory!) when he is by her side and also that seing such beautiful thing as their love amongst the surrunding chaos is refreshing...



I think that indeed, from what I read, according to certain dialogue options, Alistair would behave differently... From my point of view and the way things go for the moent I see the PC and Alistair as a "unit" (sorry, not sure that's the correct word - wish English was my mother tongue), made stronger by the presence of one another... Alistair wasn't feeling at home at the Chantry, being a templar wasn't for him... Duncan's offer took him away from this life that wasn't made for him but afair he didn't really choose to become a Grey Warden?

[Lianaar]

Through his communication with me it seemed to me that yes, he is a grey warden by choice and heart. He grows up more and more during the time he travels, but weather it is due to my char or he would have grown up anyway were I not next to him? I believe he would have grown anyway. Alas, if there is a sequence then we'll see how the writer intended him to be like



Wynne did tell me she reconsidered and thinks it is a good thing that Alistair and my char are together, but she did end it: enjoy it -while it lasts-. Seeing how Wynne got a son that was taken away from her, I do not think she believes in happily ever after

[Yorleen]

Aw, I didn't know this about Wynne's son. But it's hope that keep people fighting and carrying on, so I like to believe in better ways. Well, anyway, got to finish the game first, before further talking... I'll keep taking notes while playing.

[Yorleen]

I do agree. A PC with good persuasive skills should be able to make him understand Loghain will only be used and thus punished...



Surprising he doesn't react to the PC having "fun" at the Pearl! I didn't try this so I didn't know but I thought he would get much upset...

[Lianaar]

He reacts with a disapproval of -1.

Alas the favour system does have its limits. How dare you massacre an orphanage because they called you an elf? Oooooo, warrior statue, preettyyyyyy.



I found that he believes that Loghain killed his father (as he saw Duncen). I don't see it forced that he can't forgive the murder of the only man he saw as his father. Would I prefer that was not the option? I would. Just like I would prefer lower divorce rate in RL. But reactions like this make the game living for me.

[bobsmyuncle]

Yorleen wrote...



I see what you mean but seeing how devoted he is to the PC right now (I've not
finished the game yet), just how genuine looks their love, it's hard to believe
he would just forsake her to become king if she is an elf (I understand she
could be his mistress, how "nice" is this... )... especially since
at some point, when he declares furthermore his love for her, she can ask if
the fact she's an elf doesn't matter and he answers that it doesn't change a
thing...

Maybe it's not nice, but Dragon Age is dark fantasy, not high fantasy like we are used to from Bioware. They probably should have explained this better, I for one had no experience with dark fantasy before this game, but from what I've gathered one of the tropes of the genre is to be fairly realistic in terms of the society being mimicked (usually medieval Europe).

With that in mind, heirs were not permitted to marry where they wished. George IV of England, for example, fell in love with a Catholic woman when he was prince and she would never have been accepted as Queen for that reason among others. The female PC more often than not falls into a similar class of social unsuitability for the throne of Ferelden (your PC being an elf may not matter to Alistair personally, but it does matter to Ferelden society, ie the banns and arls whose support he requires to govern). Alistair is a very duty-minded NPC and if you convince him that his duty is to be king, well, he won't do it by halves. If you don't push him to be king, he will continue to believe that his duty is to be a Grey Warden which coincidentally does not interfere with your relationship (guess what ending I picked). Again, if this were high fantasy you could become queen as an elf and everyone would discard their prejudices once they realized what a nice lady your PC is. Since this isn't, the new king is going to have to set your relationship aside in order to govern. I advise you leave that whole  headache to Anora instead of pushing Alistair into it.

It's not a pleasant situation but I doubt it was pleasant for the people who lived through similar situations in the past. I think it's understandable if you don't want to play "Medieval Society Simulator: Your Life Sucks" but it is the  setting Bioware wants to work with and I personally enjoyed it once I got the hang of the genre.

*edit* George IV was not a medieval figure but he was the first person I thought of as an example of trying to marry outside your duty. So

Modifié par bobsmyuncle, 16 novembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[Isaantia]

Yorleen wrote...

I do agree. A PC with good persuasive skills should be able to make him understand Loghain will only be used and thus punished...

Surprising he doesn't react to the PC having "fun" at the Pearl! I didn't try this so I didn't know but I thought he would get much upset...

Totally agree with you and Imported_beer. Riordan was tortured by Loghain and Riordan was willing to take Loghain through the joining. He understood the "compelling reasons" to do so. A character with very high persuade (enough to get him to sleep with Morrigan, even if you've been dumped) should have been able to persuade him to see the reason in keeping Loghain and that he dooms himself by taking petty revenge. In my fanfic I'm working on, my PC is about to rip Alistair a new one over this decision now that she knows what really happens.

I would totally mod this if I wasn't working and schooling full-time. Your PC has SO much influence over him, you should be able to talk some reason into him. Maybe it takes some work to calm him down, but if you can put Anora in the tower, you should be able to stick Loghain there too.

[Yorleen]

It's true that I was rather thinking in terms or "regular" fantasy settings...



Letting the whole king-thing aside, I just wish you could talk Alistair into "using" Loghain... This doesn't mean forgiving him at all to me (I couldn't forgive neither), just using him as a tool to survive....

[Lianaar]

To be honest that is what I don't see him in the slightest. He won't make use the murderer of the only person he saw as father. That is the very point. It is not like he is asked: he lives or the blight wins. Loghain is not a necessary element in winning against the blight or rebuilding the country or the wardens. He is disposable. And because he is disposable, the urge to go with the ancient thalio principle seems just right.



I can see how you might be able to convince him to stay with you, but such blatant disregard for his feelings would feel betrayal to him. It would always be between you. (In my reading.)