294 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucy Glitter]

What I like to do, is not debase all these amazing companions, and accept that not everything will be happy-wappy in a tumultuous time.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 17 novembre 2009 - 09:51 .

[Yorleen]

Karmitastrophe, I get your point... I know this would really not please Alistair but I still believe that after a dialog and various good arguments being spoken, there should be a possibility that he comes to somehow tolerates this solution, I'm not saying he would like it... It wouldn't please the PC neither actually, knowing what Loghain has done, but she knows he could be of use in this dangerous fight, that's my point. She's not liking it either...

[LeandraNyx]

Walina wrote...
Now about Alistair dumping us :

1 - Why the hell will he back up his words only because you're not noble ? Do you find it logical ?
Anyone who made their PC dating him know that Alistair is not a liar and he is honest.
Yes, everybody think he is a chicken because he is not leading the adventure but it's only because he would've been the hero, so no point of creating a new character in my opinion.

So it's really not him to dump us because of our origin, that's just an excuse from the writers who hate girls. The proof is even if he doesn't become king he still have to sleep with Morrigan if we don' want to die or him ~_~

I disagree with this point.  Although I was absolutely heartbroken when Alistair dumped me after he was made king, I thought it was entirely in character too.  No Alistair isn't a liar, but he never foresaw becoming king when he fell in love with your character, and he's an honorable guy.  He knows that as a king he has a duty to provide an heir and that he can't stay with a non-noble woman who won't bear him a child.  I think it's because he's such a good guy that he decides to end it there -- he doesn't want to cheat on his future queen, and he doesn't want to string you along either.  Now that being said it still sucked.  :-P

[yohoia]

I feel your pain. I am very unhappy with the current ending of the romance between Alistair and the female PC. At the moment -- after reading the spoilers -- I have stopped playing my human noble female, and switched to another character (human, mage). Furthermore, I have decided to leave Alistair out of my new party - he is too lovable, and I am getting awfully attached to him and while he is there I seem to spend more time and effort to keep him happy and too little attention to the actual gameplay Never ever had this experience in a game before, for sure. I have decided not to finish the game as it currently stands, hoping for a MOD with the possible true happy ending to the story. While I am waiting I am using Shale as tank and grouping with the others. I don't regret reading the spoilers on how the game ends in advance - on the contrary; I would have hated the game and EA if it would have made me spend so much time and effort with Alistair only to either have him dead or cheating in the end. At least now I can enjoy the other aspects of the game while Alistair is put "on hold". As for myself, I am a wife and mother as well as a hard working professional woman, who just happen to love games! And Alistair...

[Miashi]

I finished the game as a mage elf and human noble and romanced Alistair in both gameplays.

Admittedly I wanted Alistair to take me as a Queen when I was an elf, but I decided to place Anora as a queen just so I could keep Alistair at the end.



I was very pleased by the human noble ending, although I had to do the dark pact with Morrigan to get there. But you know what, that's what life is and sometimes you have to make sacrifices. As Wynne says, love is a very egoistic feeling, and a warden is there to serve the others, not themselves.



To people trying to rationalize Alistair's choices?... Come on. You spend what, a couple of months with him at most through your gametime? That's far too little to pretend saying that you know Alistair inside and out.

[Savvy30039]

Oh, but Alistair is the best part of the game, or close to it. I would have missed out on so much awesomeness if I stopped bringing him along just because it gets tough at the end. Yeah, it sucks that the only way to get a happy ending with him is to go along with Morrigan's indecent proposal, but it goes along with Bioware's promise of difficult decisions for the game. It's a lose-lose situation, but at least having you both alive at the end because of Morigan's magical vajayjay isn't so bad.



What's stupid about the Loghain thing though is that, Alistair might not have rejected him so vehemntly if he knew that a Gray Warden had to die to kill the archdemon. If Riordan had just taken us aside for a moment before deciding Loghain's fate and said, "Look guys, he's gonna die anyway, and this way none of us has to die." It seems to be what he had in mind when he spoke of needing as many Wardens as possible, he just didn't clarify it.



So really, it's all his fault. Not only did he wait till the last minute to tell us the ultimatum for stopping the blight, but was also stupid enough to try to take down an archdemon by himself, and dooming one of us in the process. Stupid Riordan...

[kaimanaMM]

Both of Karmitastrophe's posts pretty much nailed my exact thoughts / reasonings (and was  put much more coherantly than I can offer after staying up until 5am to finish the game last night). 

Loghain : I don't think it's out of character or unbelieveable in any sense as to how Alistair reacts to your even considering Loghain's surrender and potential joining the Grey Wardens.  Heck, when the time came I gave him the sword to end Loghain's life and rightly so.  At that point it was about more than just revenge.  To have any other alternative to either killing Loghain or Alistair leaving would be very much out of character for all the reasons that have been listed.

I don't even see how people are upset that you can't be Alistair's queen if you're not a noble.  One of the reasons to put Alistair on the throne in the first place is because he is royal blood - diluted as it is.  It was a fight getting him accepted figuratively and literally and you can't really expect that people would readily accept the questionable bastard of the king and his mage, elf, dwarf queen.  Racial tensions in Ferelden are deep and the divides are wide, it's a given that he can't be with you if you don't have human noble blood. 

Sexing up Morrigan : For me, the jury is still out on whether or not Morrigan is evil.  Deceitful, conniving, and has her own agenda most definitely, but evil ... I don't know if I can go that far even after she got her dirty paws all over the Alistair-hotness.  When I first went though the whole thing I turned her "offer" down.  When I got to the point that I knew it would be either myself or the man I loved I was so upset I had tears in my eyes.  I couldn't go through with it.  I went back - way back - and when the time came, I took her up on her offer.  To my character's way of thinking, I left Flemeth alive which Alistair thinks is pretty cool, he says something along the lines of it being fun to trick Morrigan with his goofy Alistair grin and evil eyebrows.  Will Flemeth be my ace in the hole?  Maybe, maybe not, but she is a potential barganing chip or I could be to her.

Sleeping with Morrigan Alistair can understand and even accept because he loves you, beyond any reason and wants you to stay alive just as much as you want him to stay alive.  Love makes us selfish.  What he does with Morrigan is not love, it is neccessity, a way out that is barely tolerable but will let you both live to be with eachother for what few years you both may have.  But everything comes with a price, you can't expect to ride off into the sunset without some sort of sacrifice. 

Anyway, alot of my post was rambling.  After sitting down and absorbing it a little more this morning, I'm almost of the mind that I don't want to see my characters in a sequel (which is big for me, I have a tendency to get really attached).  I would like to start a new chapter and believe that somehow the years my character had with Alistair were the best they could be with what they had.  Would I be opposed to seeing my character as the PC for DAO2, not at all.  Maybe I track down Flemeth or maybe she comes to me, maybe Alistair and I get ourselves an heir (it won't be for lack of trying!) maybe we don't, maybe everyone shows back up on my doorstep, maybe they never come back. 

Just my 2 cents - need more coffee!  (Morrigan's Magical Vajayjay ™ = priceless!)

Modifié par kaimanaMM, 17 novembre 2009 - 04:55 .

[OdinTGE]

relhart wrote...

He's a tool, to put it simply. A selfish whiny tool, I spent the whole "romance" wishing I could slap some man into him.

You can.  Do his quest to meet his sister.  When you leave her house tell him everybody is out for #1.

[Yorleen]

I basically thought like you, that even if it's not nice morally that Alistair would have to sleep with Morrigan, there wouln't be any pleasure in this since they are not attracted to each other, it would just have to be done... I thought also that the fact Morrigan and my PC are in friendly terms would ease the thing...

But I realized I thought from a female point of view, meaning a female wouldn't have to enjoy it would she have to be taken by a man she doesn't love for this ritual (it may be a bit like a consenting rape)... But if a man wants to be able to make a woman pregnant, he has to go till the end, thus "enjoys" the thing in a way, you know... This is this very thought that makes me sick now...



I believe the PC could come over it after a while (especially since she asked Alistair to do it from what I read) if she doesn't have to watch the seen... but what about Alistair? He being so trustworthy to his love? Wouldn't he feel utterly disgusted with himself when he would look at his love afterwards? I'm not totally sure he could cope with this actually...



I so wish the ritual could be done with the PC and him, becoming parents of the child, would they be friendly enough to Morrigan... She may still steal the baby once it would be born and run away with it...

[cutieyum]

imported_beer wrote...
I believe Morrigan offers because she cares for your life. But she doesn't like Alistair and he doesn't like her in the game.  Your only chance at togetherness comes by forcing a man to do something he loathes and goes against his nature. Or you could *try* to sacrifice yourself by subterfuge because if you take him along- he will naturally butt in.

Morrigan conceiving a child with Alistair in order to save the soul of the Ancient God is sad and horrifying, in many levels (persuading Alistair to have sex with another woman, conception of a child not mine, sleeping with my best friend). Yet, I could not disagree with Morrigan, she is my best friend (100%), I love her as much as I love Alistair, they both sway me.

Morrigan's logic and voice (I love Claudia Black) is grounded in her gritty reality. The world of Ferelden is unforgiving, harsh and needs change desperately. Everyone is a slave of a belief system, tradition, ignorance and the power-hungry. There's little social responsability. As a Dalish elf, I have an understanding of the power and chaos of nature, liberty is paramount, and Morrigan was persuasive enough. Was this romance ever likely to shine? Where in this world could I peacefully love Alistair, a human, for the few years we have?

[Isaantia]

Miashi wrote...

To people trying to rationalize Alistair's choices?... Come on. You spend what, a couple of months with him at most through your gametime? That's far too little to pretend saying that you know Alistair inside and out.

At first I thought it was just a few months, but other people are now telling me the game takes place over 1-2 years. Apparently Alistair says something to the effect of "we've been traveling over a year now" and Wynne also mentions some time, but I don't recall either of those conversations. 1-2 years  is a little more significant than a few months.

I'm basically of the same mind as you, kaimanaMM. Fereldan needs Alistair (and me as Queen, of course). I let Flemmeth live too. In Denerim I thanked Morrigan for all her help, lol. She was surprised. What gets me is that you can't talk to Alistair about it afterwards. You can talk to Morrigan but not Alistair? Argh.

In some ways this is no different that Flemmeth saving Maric and Loghain in the forest in TST, no talk of Blight and bretrayal tho. Just this old god business. This also gives me hope that my PC and Alistair could concieve an heir as well.

Edited to add: Lets not forget you can talk Alistair into the threesome with Isabela too.

i just wish my ending wasn't all bugged out. Some of the slides I got at the end didn't make sense. Why did Alistair go back to the Grey Wardens if he is King, especailly when the other slide said that. Argh.

Modifié par Isaantia, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:34 .

[Naltair]

As much as I disagree with some of the views here I find it gratifying that the experience of the game affected players this much.

[Yorleen]

Yes, just after you clean up the mages tower from the abominations, blood mages and the like, Wynne will tell you that it's been already a year since you first left the tower, after your Harrowing.

[Isaantia]

Yorleen wrote...

Yes, just after you clean up the mages tower from the abominations, blood mages and the like, Wynne will tell you that it's been already a year since you first left the tower, after your Harrowing.

Ahh thats why I didn't get that conversation. I wasn't a mage.

[Savvy30039]

See, I was on good terms with Morrigan, but we most certainly weren't friends. She wanted to do the ritual either way, not out of the goodness of her heart to save her dear friends, but because she had an agenda from the very beginning. Whether she had come to care about me or not didn't matter, it was always about her getting what she wanted.



Ugh, even if you could skip the cutscene between Alistair and Morrigan, I still didn't know it was coming. So I still caught a glimpse of the witch in her skivvies, sauntering over to Alistair as the sexytime music played, as if it was something that wasn't totally abhorrent to both of them.



I still think Loghain should have been the one to sacrifice himself to the archdemon. In the ending where Anora became queen, it stated that despite the protests of everyone else, she erected a statue in Loghain's honor. And no one came to visit it beside her, because everyone knew that the man was no hero. So his sacrifice would be nothing more than a death sentence.

[PinkShira]

Seems I'm not the only one upset about the ending. I just wrote a post before seeing this one. My heart is breaking and there is nothing I can do... curse you bioware!

[Antikristine]

PinkShira wrote...

Seems I'm not the only one upset about the ending. I just wrote a post before seeing this one. My heart is breaking and there is nothing I can do... curse you bioware!

I agree with you, but I think that's the beauty of the game... If you could have Alistair and live happily ever after with no consequences, it wouldn't really fit into the world and the rest of the sinister story. I'm still cursing myself for not telling Alistair that there was a second option and thus letting him sacrifice himself when I was the one who should have. I only have one remedy for that - a second playthrough where I'm not letting myself fall for Alistair.

[Yorleen]

They will never live "happily ever after" because of the taint and I don't think anyone meant to ask a "Disney-like" ending... But there are other possibilities of endings, still with a bitter taste, that may allow them to get at least a little happier and which would fit in the game's world. I opened a group so that interested Ladies (or even Gentlemen) of Ferelden may try and think of this...

Modifié par Yorleen, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:46 .

[PinkShira]

Antikristine wrote...

PinkShira wrote...

Seems I'm not the only one upset about the ending. I just wrote a post before seeing this one. My heart is breaking and there is nothing I can do... curse you bioware!

I agree with you, but I think that's the beauty of the game... If you could have Alistair and live happily ever after with no consequences, it wouldn't really fit into the world and the rest of the sinister story. I'm still cursing myself for not telling Alistair that there was a second option and thus letting him sacrifice himself when I was the one who should have. I only have one remedy for that - a second playthrough where I'm not letting myself fall for Alistair.

Good luck with that.  I couldn't imagine not taking him.  His sense of humor hits mine so perfectly.  How come there are no real men out there like him...lol.

[Isaantia]

Antikristine wrote...

I agree with you, but I think that's the beauty of the game... If you could have Alistair and live happily ever after with no consequences, it wouldn't really fit into the world and the rest of the sinister story. I'm still cursing myself for not telling Alistair that there was a second option and thus letting him sacrifice himself when I was the one who should have. I only have one remedy for that - a second playthrough where I'm not letting myself fall for Alistair.

I am trying really, really hard to not fall for Alistair on my mage playthrough, but its hard. I'm going to romance Leiliana this time. We'll see how successful I am. From a "able to finish the game" standpoint, I can turn down Morrigan because I won't need her at all. I had a lot of gear/skills invested in her the 1st time so even outside of the decisions my rogue would make, I needed Morrigan for the final battles.

[kaimanaMM]

PinkShira wrote...

 I only have one remedy for that - a second playthrough where I'm not letting myself fall for Alistair.

Unpossible!  At some point I will romance Zevran, maybe ... probably.  What's funny is that I had been planning to play a rogue and hook up with Zevran for a long tim before getting the game.  (Can you teach me to be an assassin?  Of course, it'll be fun.  I will make it fun.)  But Alistair is sneaky.  Before I knew it, by the time I ran across Zevran I was a caught woman.  For a royal bastard who was raised by flying dogs that sold him to the Chantry he is one smooth operator.

@ Isaantia : My slides were bugged too. Alistair leaving to be with his lover in Weisshaupt to Queen Anora's dissapointment?! And me *only* the Princess-Consort after all the Queen talk and tossing in Anora into the tower to get eaten by the Archdemon. I hope BW can get those fixed soon.

I tried talking to Morrigan about *it* and even then I couldn't bring down the hammer. Was I angry?  Oh, I was furious, but mostly at how cruel fate can be.  So I told her to get lost telling her if she didn't try to find me I wouldn't try to find her. We'll see how long that lasts.

I do see Yorleen's point of view and I hadn't yet thought of it that way. That's a very interesting way of seeing it all and one I'll be mulling over for a bit.

Modifié par kaimanaMM, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:25 .

[Antikristine]

PinkShira wrote...

Good luck with that.  I couldn't imagine not taking him.  His sense of
humor hits mine so perfectly.  How come there are no real men out there
like him...lol.

Isaantia wrote...

I am trying really, really hard to not fall for Alistair on my mage playthrough, but its hard. I'm going to romance Leiliana this time. We'll see how successful I am. From a "able to finish the game" standpoint, I can turn down Morrigan because I won't need her at all. I had a lot of gear/skills invested in her the 1st time so even outside of the decisions my rogue would make, I needed Morrigan for the final battles.

Lol, I can imagine I didn't really intend my PC and Alistair to become as involved as they did. As a matter of fact, I found Alistair a little too boyish and silly at first. In my next playthrough I'm going to play a cynical girl who doesn't want to stick with one man. I'm afraid Alistair will be able to seduce this one as well though She just has to be strong and put solid emphasis on the fact that she does not have romantic feelings for him. Well, it's going to be a tough ride!

[David Gaider]

Miashi wrote...
To people trying to rationalize Alistair's choices?... Come on. You spend what, a couple of months with him at most through your gametime? That's far too little to pretend saying that you know Alistair inside and out.

Yes, there is an element of denial combined with wishful thinking at work, there. Which is maybe understandable, so long as denial doesn't turn into delusion, you know?

Personally I don't think Alistair would let Loghain go. He swore that Loghain would die for what he did, and while there are many things that Alistair can be talked out of, things that he sees as his duty or promises he's made are not those things. I don't really mind if someone wishes to make a mod and pretend that Alistair would do that, if they really really must have their happy romantic ending prancing off into the sunset and nothing else in the game is important to them, but it *is* pretend. So long as you're okay with that, so am I.

As for Riordan, this has been discussed elsewhere. He didn't know that Alistair and the PC weren't aware of the Archdemon Solution (not realizing that they were both new recruits, perhaps). Even if he did, there's also no way that Riordan could have realized that the showdown with the Archdemon would come before the Orlesian Grey Wardens could be brought to Ferelden. His suggestion that more Grey Wardens might be useful is just that.

Just because YOU guys know now in meta-gamey fashion that making Loghain a Grey Warden is the more convenient way for the romance plot to go your way doesn't mean that Riordan or Alistair know that. Frankly, even if Alistair DID know I'm not sure that he would believe giving Loghain that honor -- remember, he considers being a Grey Warden and making their sacrifice an honor -- to be a good thing.

But there you go. I'll leave it at that.

Modifié par David Gaider, 18 novembre 2009 - 04:21 .

[Savvy30039]

Indeed. I'm now playing a city elf that hates humans, but Zevran is taking his sweet time to show up, and I can't bring myself to be mean to Alistair... He's just too lovable!