336 réponses à ce sujet

[Deadmac]

Ebenezer wrote...

http://www.eurogamer...ge-ii-interview

I dont even have the words right now. Mike did not help matters at all. I... I dont know what to say.

Read and discuss.

Mike Laidlaw is trying to get in front of the criticism, which is a smart thing to do from a public relations perspective. Unfortunately, his comments come off as though everything BioWare touches will turn to gold. Once he was confronted with the Metacritic and Eurogamer scores, he spun the impact of the negative and made it look positive. If you read between the lines, Mike is saying, "We know we messed up, but we really don't care. As long as we are bringing in some revenue, the negative criticism is not going to mater in the long run." (peraphrased)

If there is a "Dragon Age III" planned, I expect it to follow the same route as "Dragon Age II". Don't expect BioWare to make adjustments in which will make pc rpg gamers happy. BioWare has now moved away from traditional rpgs.

Modifié par Deadmac, 11 mars 2011 - 06:23 .

[M8DMAN]

bzombo wrote...

i understand some people are not happy. i just wish that some of you who are critical but did not buy the game would stop commenting on how good or bad it is. it just seems like there's a group on here who are judging the game based on second hand information. i like the game. there's things i wish were in or out, but i still enjoy it. combat is a lot more fun. maybe for future expansions or da3 they could keep combat from da2 and bring a few of the origins features back. people who want no voice for the protagonist should probably give up on that one. it's becoming an industry standard, so it's not likely going away.

Heck I enjoyed the game but  that doesn't change the fact that it's flawed. We try to tell bioware and they lock the thread and call us trolls.

Bioware is handling this criticism like a 2 year old.  They lock thread's then stick their fingers in their ears and go "NAHNAHNAH CAN'T HEAR YOU DRAGON AGE 2 IS PERFECT"!

Modifié par M8DMAN, 11 mars 2011 - 06:18 .

[Malja]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Interesting that I am seeing a lot of comments here from people who havent registered the gameyet know they hate it. Not stating opinion as much as making an observation...

Many reasons. Not all of which are "I haven't played/finished the game".

[TheKnave69]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Yes, we indeed know how much of a thorn EA is to video gaming. They are just stupid for not recognizing the importance of top quality. They suck developers dry like vampires, toss away the corpse and move on.

It's not just EA, it's a symptom of when the distributor becomes directly involved with the creative process.  Whether movie distributors/cable companies being involved with their production arms, or when game publishers become involved with the development houses.  There is tremendous overhead involved and massive pressure to produce progressive profit, both quarterly and year over year.

Sierra/Vivendi
SSI/Ubisoft
Disney/Pixar
Disney/Miramax
etc.

[Direshadow]

That's the problem with the Dragon Age series now. It was inspired and made to be something akin to the Baldur's Gate series or like an old fashioned Pen and Paper rpg.

I can tell you right now that everyone who is loving Dragon Age 2 at the moment have not once rolled a D20.

[Logikal1]

sympathy4saren wrote...

People who settle for at best mediocrity and viciously defend it are doing the entire gaming industry a giant disservice. An annoyance when genuine rpg fans are forced to share the tent with hack and slash and shooter fanboys.

QFT

[zkaizer]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Interesting that I am seeing a lot of comments here from people who havent registered the gameyet know they hate it. Not stating opinion as much as making an observation...

As I stated on another post, I'm playing my brother's copy because I wasn't going to buy it. I read the changes they were making to this game and knew this wasn't the game for me....and I was right.

Others are playing by...."other means".

I'm not upset by your comment or anything. Some folks are just using their friends copies / renting because they don't want to buy it.

[Taurenul]

Eurogamer: One stronger criticism levelled at Dragon Age II was that it was designed by committee; it tried too hard to appeal too far and wide, and in doing so it lost a sense of self. What do you say to that?

Mike Laidlaw: Dragon Age II was designed by just the senior, core team. Honestly I don't feel it's a game that's been designed to appeal far and wide and so on. If it were, there were choices we could have made that would have taken it much, much further. We would have probably simplified down to a single character, maybe with companions; probably looked at doing some even deeper changes to inventory management, making sure that... You wouldn't want to confuse people with enchanting or anything complex like that. Really what we wanted to do with the game, just talking about first-principles, was to look at elements of Origins that were over complex and needlessly so and see if we could pull those out in a clean way and didn't take out what I always saw as core elements of the experience: strong, character-driven stories, and the idea that the combat should be a party working together, especially at higher difficulty levels.

I just love this part. It's like "Dont worry, we could have dumbed it down even more".
How can you further simplify inventory management in DA2?

[gilgalad80]

sympathy4saren wrote...

People who settle for at best mediocrity and viciously defend it are doing the entire gaming industry a giant disservice. An annoyance when genuine rpg fans are forced to share the tent with hack and slash and shooter fanboys.

Couldn't agree more my friend.

[backrow]

F-C wrote...

TomatoTomato wrote...

But in order to create earth-shattering new story-arcs or huge, huge changes to the game from the import really does run the risk of alienating people who didn't play the first game and were maybe turned off by it.

This is something that concerns me... They promote and advertise games like ME and DA as progressive experiences, games which choices made "matter", hold volume and impact a player 's unique experience as a whole. Yet when the time actually comes for implementation, they seem to restrain themselves due to the fear of "alienating" players who hadn't played the previous game(s).

What is the point of even calling a game a sequel if you are constantly worried that players who did not play the first game may panic, "What is this? When did this happen? This doesn't make any sense!" It would be like writing Empire Strikes Back and deciding not to reference Obi-Wan or the destruction of the Death Star too much because it would "turn off people who hadn't seen A New Hope."

The number "2" is in the title for a reason. It was that player's choice to leap clueless into the middle of a story when the beginning is all ready there for all to see. I understand that for a game company to survive financially, some sacrifices have to be made to market a game to players who may be unwilling to try out Origins, but it seems like it these worries are actually holding the writing back.

just to add to this giving people a "sequel" that barely even resembles the original leading to massive complaints should not be "shocking" to people, it should be expected.

i dont mind that the game is "different" but it feels very cheap and honestly the best way i can describe DA2 is if DAO and ME2 made a baby, and it got all the bad genes.

fully agree with both of you.
it's not like people NEED to know what happened if they never played the first one, it's their decision to start now and Hawke is an independent character anyhow. if they don't care, they won't feel alienated in any way! if they do care, chances are it will spark up their interest and they will reach for the Origins, thus potentially increasing the interest in the franchise as a whole and sale of the original game and other DA related items.

[zkaizer]

Direshadow wrote...

That's the problem with the Dragon Age series now. It was inspired and made to be something akin to the Baldur's Gate series or like an old fashioned Pen and Paper rpg.

I can tell you right now that everyone who is loving Dragon Age 2 at the moment have not once rolled a D20.

I can see the kids now wondering to themselves "What a D20?? Better go to Google...."     LOL

[StonerMkII]

Taurenul wrote...

Eurogamer: One stronger criticism levelled at Dragon Age II was that it was designed by committee; it tried too hard to appeal too far and wide, and in doing so it lost a sense of self. What do you say to that?

Mike Laidlaw: Dragon Age II was designed by just the senior, core team. Honestly I don't feel it's a game that's been designed to appeal far and wide and so on. If it were, there were choices we could have made that would have taken it much, much further. We would have probably simplified down to a single character, maybe with companions; probably looked at doing some even deeper changes to inventory management, making sure that... You wouldn't want to confuse people with enchanting or anything complex like that. Really what we wanted to do with the game, just talking about first-principles, was to look at elements of Origins that were over complex and needlessly so and see if we could pull those out in a clean way and didn't take out what I always saw as core elements of the experience: strong, character-driven stories, and the idea that the combat should be a party working together, especially at higher difficulty levels.

I just love this part. It's like "Dont worry, we could have dumbed it down even more".
How can you further simplify inventory management in DA2?

Haha, yeah, i chuckled a little reading that paragraph.

[Melness]

Taurenul wrote...

How can you further simplify inventory management in DA2?

By actually removing it?

[billythegreat]

sympathy4saren wrote...

People who settle for at best mediocrity and viciously defend it are doing the entire gaming industry a giant disservice. An annoyance when genuine rpg fans are forced to share the tent with hack and slash and shooter fanboys.

^
This

[Malja]

Melness wrote...

Taurenul wrote...

How can you further simplify inventory management in DA2?

By actually removing it?

My thoughts exactly.

[Beerfish]

sympathy4saren wrote...

People who settle for at best mediocrity and viciously defend it are doing the entire gaming industry a giant disservice. An annoyance when genuine rpg fans are forced to share the tent with hack and slash and shooter fanboys.

See here is a problem for me.  People will bemoan being called a 'Troll' if they make a negative post and someone takes them to task about.  The very same people lob out the old fanboys term which is just as dismissive and insulting as 'Troll'

There are positives and negtives to most games out there and a logical, well thought out conversation about what worked and didn't work from people that generally like or didn't the game overall is useful.  It's just as hard to take a person seriously if they trot out the term 'fanboy' about anyone that has positive things to say about a game as the the ones that call a person a 'troll' for saying anything negative about the game.

Modifié par Beerfish, 11 mars 2011 - 06:35 .

[gilgalad80]

Sabiancym wrote...

The fact that they felt the need to do an interview defending the game shows that they know people aren't happy. You don't go and defend your game if only a few "PC Elitists" are complaining.

Ah.. a logical statement indeed!  The rest is just damage control.

PS:  From now on, fellow cRPG fans, we must all take a hint when the promotional interviews and other material prior to release, mention PC last referring to the platforms the title is releasing on... Look at any interview.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Amen to that.

I only hope for Mod tools so we can fix this...abomination.
But even once the mod tools come, I don't know if I'll have to patience ...there's a lot to fix.

[Melness]

Beerfish wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

People who settle for at best mediocrity and viciously defend it are doing the entire gaming industry a giant disservice. An annoyance when genuine rpg fans are forced to share the tent with hack and slash and shooter fanboys.

See here is a problem for me.  People will bemoan being called a 'Troll' if they make a negative post and someone takes them to task about.  The very same people lob out the old fanboys term which is just as dismissive and insulting as 'Troll'

There are positives and negtives to most games out there and a logical, well thought out conversation about what worked and didn't work from people that generally like or didn't the game overall is useful.  It's just as hard to take a person seriously if they trot out the term 'fanboy' about anyone that has positive things to say about a game as the the ones that call a person a 'troll' for saying anything negative about the game.

Pretty much that. And why so many threads are 'unfairly' locked. Being vulgar about it isn't constructive, at all - regardless of what you posted.

[PSUHammer]

zkaizer wrote...

Direshadow wrote...

That's the problem with the Dragon Age series now. It was inspired and made to be something akin to the Baldur's Gate series or like an old fashioned Pen and Paper rpg.

I can tell you right now that everyone who is loving Dragon Age 2 at the moment have not once rolled a D20.

I can see the kids now wondering to themselves "What a D20?? Better go to Google...."     LOL

You guys can't generalize like that. I have some similar issues with the game which I posted already, but I still like the game. I played old D&D games, with dice and paper and the old Gold Box games. But, I can still appreciate this for what it is.

Just because the game isn't what some people wanted it to be, doesn't mean everyone has to hate it too. It may not be BG2 but it is fun to play for me.

It is just a game, after all. No need to go insane with rage over it. Some folks should tone down the non constructive insults as it removes their credibility.

[bzombo]

M8DMAN wrote...

bzombo wrote...

i understand some people are not happy. i just wish that some of you who are critical but did not buy the game would stop commenting on how good or bad it is. it just seems like there's a group on here who are judging the game based on second hand information. i like the game. there's things i wish were in or out, but i still enjoy it. combat is a lot more fun. maybe for future expansions or da3 they could keep combat from da2 and bring a few of the origins features back. people who want no voice for the protagonist should probably give up on that one. it's becoming an industry standard, so it's not likely going away.

Heck I enjoyed the game but  that doesn't change the fact that it's flawed. We try to tell bioware and they lock the thread and call us trolls.

Bioware is handling this criticism like a 2 year old.  They lock thread's then stick their fingers in their ears and go "NAHNAHNAH CAN'T HEAR YOU DRAGON AGE 2 IS PERFECT"!

many of those threads regressed to bickering, name calling, and a lot of other bs. the venom on these forums has gotten out of hand over a video game. video games should be fun, not a blood pressure raising rant fest. there are some who are being constructive in their criticism, but it is few and far between. and a lot of those complaining have nothing registered for da2, which i find strange.

[bzombo]

Direshadow wrote...

That's the problem with the Dragon Age series now. It was inspired and made to be something akin to the Baldur's Gate series or like an old fashioned Pen and Paper rpg.

I can tell you right now that everyone who is loving Dragon Age 2 at the moment have not once rolled a D20.

wow, what a load of garbage this is. i like dragon age 2. i have also played several pnp rpgs. i have also "rolled a D20". stuff like this is what gives pc gamers a bad rep. how elitist and snobbish is that post of yours? get your head out of the clouds. the world does not revolve around you and your personal interests.

[Deadmac]

While I stand in front of the game shelf at Best Buy, I normally do not go by who is making the product. After playing "Knights of the Old Republic", I started to pay a little more attention. Upon reading this interview with Mike, I am now swinging back the other way. If you like what you read and see on the box, the game developers and publishers do not matter.

Before I ended up buying "Dragon Age: Origins", I did not have any reservations in buying the game. It was a shot in the dark, which ended up paying off. "Dragon Age: Origins" was one of those 'once in a franchise's lifetime' type of game, and I am perfectly okay with how things have turned out.

Another unknown or known company will learn from this mistake, and then they will evolve the game style to the next level. If BioWare is not interested in rpg gamers, someone else watching, planning, and waiting will take advantage of this opportunity.

BioWare is just another game developer, and Mike's comments show that 'all good things must come to an end'. Its time to move onto another game.

[StonerMkII]

bzombo wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

bzombo wrote...

i understand some people are not happy. i just wish that some of you who are critical but did not buy the game would stop commenting on how good or bad it is. it just seems like there's a group on here who are judging the game based on second hand information. i like the game. there's things i wish were in or out, but i still enjoy it. combat is a lot more fun. maybe for future expansions or da3 they could keep combat from da2 and bring a few of the origins features back. people who want no voice for the protagonist should probably give up on that one. it's becoming an industry standard, so it's not likely going away.

Heck I enjoyed the game but  that doesn't change the fact that it's flawed. We try to tell bioware and they lock the thread and call us trolls.

Bioware is handling this criticism like a 2 year old.  They lock thread's then stick their fingers in their ears and go "NAHNAHNAH CAN'T HEAR YOU DRAGON AGE 2 IS PERFECT"!

many of those threads regressed to bickering, name calling, and a lot of other bs. the venom on these forums has gotten out of hand over a video game. video games should be fun, not a blood pressure raising rant fest. there are some who are being constructive in their criticism, but it is few and far between. and a lot of those complaining have nothing registered for da2, which i find strange.

Why do we need to purchase, own and register the game for our opinions to be credible? You do know there are places like Blockbuster and Gamefly where you can RENT GAMES! Goddamn im sick of this "You dont have anything registered therefore your opinion means squat." attitude. Yeah, i dont own DA2 and likely never will. I rented it (the 25 dollars a month i pay to Gamefly entitles me to rent games that i am on the fence about) on TOP of watching the gaming being played to its conclusion. So therefore i have a pretty good goddamn idea about it.

[Deadmac]

While I stand in front of the game shelf at Best Buy, I normally do not go by who is making the product. After playing "Knights of the Old Republic", I started to pay a little more attention. Upon reading this interview with Mike, I am now swinging back the other way. If you like what you read and see on the box, the game developers and publishers do not matter.

Before I ended up buying "Dragon Age: Origins", I did not have any reservations in buying the game. It was a shot in the dark, which ended up paying off. "Dragon Age: Origins" was one of those 'once in a franchise's lifetime' type of game, and I am perfectly okay with how things have turned out.

Another unknown or known company will learn from this mistake, and then they will evolve the game style to the next level. If BioWare is not interested in rpg gamers, someone else watching, planning, and waiting will take advantage of this opportunity.

BioWare is just another game developer, and Mike's comments show that 'all good things must come to an end'. Its time to move onto another game.